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Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

Title:DEC Rdb against the World
Moderator:HERON::GODFRIND
Created:Fri Jun 12 1987
Last Modified:Thu Feb 23 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1348
Total number of notes:5438

107.0. "ADR DATACOM DB - info request" by NANOOK::ANTHONY () Wed Mar 30 1988 20:44

    
   I'm looking for information regarding ADR's DATACOM/DB database
management system. I have some information on the product, however,
what i'm really interested in knowing is it a "relational db" ie;
like rdb/vms, oracle, ingres etc or is it a flat file structure 
with multi-key index capabilities.

any info would be appreciated,

thanks,
	phil


    
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107.1Inverted List, I ThinkQUILL::BOOTHA Career in MISunderstandingWed Mar 30 1988 20:553
    I believe that Datacom/DB is an inverted list model, like Adabas.
    
    ---- Michael Booth
107.2A long reply on DATACOM/DBKOKO::DAVISWed Mar 30 1988 23:38122
    I have an abundance of information but little first hand knowledge.
    The following information is extracted from two texts which you
    may want to research.  The first is C.J.Date's "An Introduction
    to Database Systems", Volume I, 4th edition, Addison-Wesley, 1986.
    Chapter 21 discusses DATACOM/DB in detail.  The second is James
    Martin's "Fourth Generation Languages: Volume II Representative
    4GLs", Prentice-Hall, 1986. Starting on page 185 is a discussion
    of IDEAL, ADR's 4GL for DATACOM/DB. Both of these books are carried
    by SOFTPRO in Burlington, MA.
    
    Because of the rapid changes is Database products of late and the
    time it takes for these authors to get their books to press you
    may want to check another resource for an update.
    
    From C.J.Date:
    
    DATACOM/DB is a product of Applied Data Research, Inc. (ADR) for
    IBM mainframes running either DOS or MVS. it may be regarded as
    a typical example of an inverted list DBMS. {this is followed by
    a general discussion of invested list technology, most relevant
    is the fact that most relational DBMS use the inverted list model
    as the underlying physical implementation. The primary difference
    is that relational hides the indices and some other physical properties
    from the user whereas in inverted list models these are visible
    and must be manipulated by the user}.
    
    Some other important aspects of inverted list versus relational:
    
    1.  First, the rows of an inverted list table, unlike relational,
    are considered to be ordered in some physical sequence.
    
    2.  Next, an ordering may also be defined for the total database
    in which, for example, all the rows of table A are considered to
    precede all the rows of table B.
    
    3.  Only fields which have a search key (index) defined may be used
    to locate a row. Unlike relational where all keyed and non-keyed
    fields are candidates for inclusion in a Where clause.
    
    DATACOM/DB Data Definition is done interactively via a forms interface
    to the ADR dictionary (DATADICTIONARY).  The data manipulation language
    is anything but intuitive.  The verbs strongly resemble macro names,
    for example: GSETP, LOCKX, GETPS, LOCNX,...).
    
    From James Martin: (quoted except for typos)
    
    "The data base management system marketed by ADR is DATACOM/DB, and
    its associated 4GL is IDEAL. According to the vendor, IDEAL is an
    acronym for Interactive Environment for an Application's Life Cycle."
    
    "IDEAL integrates many application-development functions within a
    simple environment and supports nonprocedural functions for the
    design of screens, reports, data definitions, and procedures. The
    product incorporates a structured, very high level procedural language
    and an integrated data base sublanguage. IDEAL supports structured
    control constructs, transparent file support, screen panel management,
    and arithmetic capabilities."
    
    "IDEAL currently" [1986] "does not offer as braod a range of functions
    as some older full-function 4GLs such as FOCUS and RAMIS II. Compared
    to these language, IDEAL lacks a query language, decision-support
    functions, financial analysis facilities, a natural English interface,
    an integrated micro-to-mainframe link, and a full-function,
    personal-computer version of the product. However, IDEAL is a recent
    product and is likely to support a much broader range of integrated
    functions in the future."
    
    "IDEAL is designed for use by data processing professionals."
    
    Other ADR products:
    DATAQUERY		DATAREPORTER		DE-II (data entry facility)
    ADR/D-NET		ADR/DL			ADR/LOOK
    ADR/PC DATACOM	ADR/METACOBOL		ADR/DATA DESIGNER
    ADR/ROSCOE		ADR/DATA DICTIONARY	ADR/THE LIBRARIAN
    ADR/DATASECURE	ADR/VOLLIE		ADR/EMAIL	
    ADR/EMPIRE		ADR/ETC			ADR/VSAM TRANSPARENCY
    ADR/DL1 TRANSPARENCY
    
    "The following limitations of the current IDEAL product have also
    been cited by users;
    
    	Large amounts of code. ...
    	Reporting Limitations...
    	No Symbolic Debugging...
    	Lack of Full Integration...
    	Run-Time Inefficiencies...  "
    
    (note the "..." in the preceding indicates there's more in the
    paragraph)
    
    James Martins Commentary 
    
    "IDEAL was a late entrant into the world of 4GLs. By the time it
    was introducted in 1983, it was clear that much could be done to
    improve on the early 4GLs. Many of the early languages were clumsy,
    ill-structured, and difficult to use, cound not perform certain
    types of operations, and needed exits to COBOL or other languages.
    In contrast, IDEAL is an exceptionally clearly structured product.
    It is easy to understand, elegant in its simplicity and easy to
    use. ... IDEAL is designed for data processing professionals. although
    not integrated with IDEAL, ADR has a separate query language
    (DATAQUERY), a report generator (DATAREPORTER), and a data-entry
    facility (DE-II). These facilities are accessible via interaces
    with DATACOM/DB.
    
    "Prototypes can be built quickly with IDEAL. An end user with suitable
    training can create simple prototypes or can work with an analyst
    to refine the prototypes. It is important to note, however, that
    IDEAL does not eliminate the need for programming. Most nontrivial
    IDEAL applications require a substantial amount of procedural code."
    
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
    
    Hope this is helpful in migrating the customer from DATACOM/DB to
    Rdb.
    
    <><><><> Sandy
    
    
    	
    
    
107.3From a general RDBMS seminarDEBIT::FOLDEVIMon Apr 04 1988 20:3131
    From a recent RDBMS seminar (by DCI) I have the following product
    information sheet on Datacom/DB:
    
    Installed base: 1400
    Operating Environment: IBM Mainframe
    Price range: $175,000-$400,000
    Physical Structure: Indexed
    SQL support? NO
    Is the data dictionary made up of database tables? YES
    Dictionary based integrity? NO
    Domains support? NO
    Primary Key support? Using unique indexes.
    Foreign key support? NO
    Transaction management? YES
    BAckup utilities? Yes  Live backups?  YES
    Does restructuring require a reload? NO, unless modifying a table
    On-line backups? YES
    Views? NO
    Query language: Dataquery release 4.0 is menu driven
    Report Writer: Datareporter (allows extracts from VSAM, IMS)
    Screen painter: Panel Defdinition Facility
    Procedural 4GL: IDEAL
    Host language interfaces? YES  Compiled? YES
    Comments:
    PC Datacom allows downloading of data to PC products such as Lotus.
    Empire is a modeling and graphics language.
    ADR will market an IDEAL compatible version of Progress for the
    PC.
    Just bought XDB to acquire SQL expertise.