Conference ulysse::rdb_vms_competition

    Progress is manufactured by:
    Progress Software Corporation
    5 Oak Park
    Bedford, MA 01730
    617-275-4500
    
    Progress is another databse/4GL. They received very good marks in
    a recent Datapro survey. The software runs on VMS, Ultrix, Unix,
    Xenix, MS-DOS, and accommodates most LANs.
    
    ---- Michael Booth

    Progress ADVERTISED that they received good marks on a recent Datapro
    survey of database/4GLs. Surprise! There was no such general survey.
    Datapro does survey users of each product it evaluates. Apparently,
    the Progress advertising group totaled all the individual ratings,
    and created a chart.
    
    ---- Michael Booth

>What I would like to know :
>
>1) Performance affecting factors like AI-,BI- and Recovery-Unit Journalling.
>   Does it use B-Trees, Hashing, inverted lists ? Multifile-Database ?
>   Does it have an optimizer and how clever is it ?
>   Do you know how it (about) compares to RDB performancewise ?

AI journaling is optional, long-term BI journaling is not supported, and RUJ is
always on.  PROGRESS supportes nested transactions.  All database access is
done through a single server process with one process per database. 

It only has B-trees for indexes.  In terms of storage, PROGRESS's B-trees will
probably be faster for index update since it is done in the server without any
index node locking. 

Multi-file databases are supported on UNIX, XENIX, and DOS. They're not
currently supported on VMS.

It has an optimizer, which is fairly simple since it doesn't have many index
choices to choose from.  It can also be overriden by the programmer with
a USE index-name clause and procedural statements.

Overall, I have no idea how it compares to Rdb.  My guess would be for small
numbers (less than 30) of users, PROGRESS will be faster and for more users and
in clusters, Rdb will be faster.  FYI, PROGRESS has beaten ORACLE, on ULTRIX,
in a number of benchmarks. 

>
>2) Programing interface : Which languages does it support ( does it have
>   precompilers ? Does it have SQL ?

PROGRESS is a 4GL, like DATATRIEVE, but much more powerful and easy to use.
The language is compiled into a object code form similar to Pascal P-code.
V4 does not contain SQL.  It does have a call interface to 3GL routines.

>
>3) Tools : Does it have a forms system ? report writer ? graphics ?
>   application generator ( like RALLY ) ?
>
The forms system and report writer are built into the language.  Like RALLY,
forms and reports are basically the same thing.  It has no graphics or
application generator.  Despite the lack of an application generator, due
to the number of defaults in the language, I would guess that whoever writes
the PROGRESS version of your benchmark will probably be able to write it
faster than you, if you use Rdb, FMS/TDMS, and a 3GL since they're not as
integrated as PROGRESS.

>4) How relational is it ? Does it have constraints ? VALID IFs ? Can you
>   change/add/delete a field at any time without unload/load ?           

Full referential integrity is not fully supported, but can be added by
the application programmer.  Many field attributes, such as VALID IFs, can
be specified.  Fields, relations, and indexes can be added or changed without
a reload.

>5) Does it work on a cluster ( especially does it use the distributed
>   lock manager and does AIJ work in a cluster? )

All database access has to be from one node in the cluster.  So, it really
doesn't take advantage of a cluster.

>
>6) How is remote access done ? (Server etc ? )            

As mentioned above, all access is through a server process.  Both local
and remote access is through the same server.  DECnet is not currently
supported although some other UNIX and DOS LANs are supported.
>
>7) How many ( about ) installations worldwide ? On wich hardware does it
>   run on ?
                                                              
Installed based passed 10,000 in Sept 1987.  It runs on about thirty different
types of hardware and operating system, including:  IBM PC and clones running
MS-DOS or XENIX; Many flavors of UNIX on PLEXUS, TOWER, SUN, PYRAMID, NEC,
MOTOROLA, AT&T 3B series, CT, HONEYWELL, VAX, and several 68000 machines
from small European companies; BTOS; VMS on VAX. 

>
>I'll finish for now, but I'm sure others come to my mind.
>
>Gerold Krommer , ACT Vienna

    Is there any update to the info in this note ?
    
    I'm just about to start a battle with PROGRESS....

    In this week's issue of Business Week, Digital is identified as 
    giving PROGRESS $150,000 to port its database to our RISC machines.
    Anyone know if we ARE paying to get the product ported, and where
    it will fit with the other ULTRIX/RISC database products?  Have
    we paid any other db firm $150k to port?  The latest IDC UNIX database
    study showed ORACLE with 40%, INFORMIX with 23%, INGRES with 12%, 
    UNIFY with 7%, PROGRESS with 4% and other with 12% (1989 study).
    Is there some piece of PROGRESS technology that we need, or a key
    3rd party application on PROGRESS that is important to us?
    
    Mark