Conference vaxuum::online_bookbuilding

Mary,

I am woefully ignorant about DDIF, bitmaps, etc.  But let
me see if I understand you correctly:

o When DOCUMENT V2.0 comes along, we *will* be able to get
  BookReader output from an SDML file that sucks in DECwrite
  figures.

o Eventually BookReader will also accept Encapsulated Postsript,
  such as that produced by PSART.  (what's the time line for
  "eventually"?)

o You can get BookReader output from the current version of
  DECwrite (V1.1?).

Also, I'm not sure what you meant by this:

    "...because of DDIF restrictions, DECwrite-generated Bookreader output 
    is *page* oriented (i.e., they use fixed-size pages online), whereas 
    DOCUMENT fully supports Bookreader's topic-oriented capability."

Are there some implications here (that I need help recognizing)
if I use DECwrite and DOCUMENT together?  For example, does this
mean that a DECwrite figure could not appear on the same screen
as SDML-coded text?  All figures would need to be pop-up? Something
else? 

Thanx,

Rose

P.S.  Can someone give me a pointer to the DECwrite conference?
      I need to do some searching about drawing railroad diagrams
      with it...    

>I am woefully ignorant about DDIF, bitmaps, etc.  But let
>me see if I understand you correctly:
>
>o When DOCUMENT V2.0 comes along, we *will* be able to get
>  BookReader output from an SDML file that sucks in DECwrite
>  figures.

No.  DOCUMENT V2 will be able to take in three things as bookreader figures:

- DDIF *image* files, such as can be made with DECpaint, PrintScreen, UTOX,
	RAGS.
- FSE bitmaps, made by UTOX or RAGS

- RAGS drawings.

DECwrite is unable to produce any of these types of files.  DECwrite makes
only DDIF compound documents.  DOCUMENT will NOT be able to take in DDIF
compound documents.  DECwrite also can make PostScript, but it is not
Encapsulated PostScript.


>o Eventually BookReader will also accept Encapsulated Postsript,
>  such as that produced by PSART.  (what's the time line for
>  "eventually"?)

The new bookreader supplied with the next DECwindows release will be able to
use Encapsulated PostScript figures made by any tool.

>o You can get BookReader output from the current version of
>  DECwrite (V1.1?).

Yes, although there are a few differences between DECwrite-produced online
books and DOCUMENT-produced online books.  DECwrite OLBs (online books) are
essentially snapshots of DECwrite pages - ie.  same fonts, sizes,
formatting, etc.  DECwrite OLBs are page oriented like they appear in
DECwrite, not topic oriented like general OLBs.  "Links to Images" in
DECwrite will work for bookreader figures in DECwrite-produced OLBs, but
"Links to Drawings" and object oriented drawings in DECwrite will not make
it into DECwrite-produced OLBs.

>Also, I'm not sure what you meant by this:
>
>    "...because of DDIF restrictions, DECwrite-generated Bookreader output 
>    is *page* oriented (i.e., they use fixed-size pages online), whereas 
>    DOCUMENT fully supports Bookreader's topic-oriented capability."
>
>Are there some implications here (that I need help recognizing)
>if I use DECwrite and DOCUMENT together?  For example, does this
>mean that a DECwrite figure could not appear on the same screen
>as SDML-coded text?  All figures would need to be pop-up? Something
>else? 

You cannot use DECwrite to make figures for use in DOCUMENT-produced OLBs.
DOCUMENT only takes FSE bitmaps or RAGS drawings as figures for the
bookreader, and DDIF images in V2 DOCUMENT.  DECwrite is unable to produce
any of these.

>P.S.  Can someone give me a pointer to the DECwrite conference?
>      I need to do some searching about drawing railroad diagrams
>      with it...    

QUEEN::DECWRITE

-Mike

�You cannot use DECwrite to make figures for use in DOCUMENT-produced OLBs.
�DOCUMENT only takes FSE bitmaps or RAGS drawings as figures for the
�bookreader, and DDIF images in V2 DOCUMENT.  DECwrite is unable to produce
�any of these.
    
    But I've done it.
    
    It's not direct, and it feels like a bit of a hack, but it works:
    
    	1	Draw your graphic in DECwrite !keep the drawing displayed
    					       on your screen
    	2	Enter UTOX
    
    	3	capture <your-vs>::0, when you've made sure your screen
    		is uncluttered enough
    
    	4	Use the UTOX Settings options to specify what sort of
    		SDML output you want - FSE - (and to Grow the image twice)
    
    	5	Crop the screen image appropriately
    
    	6	Save to SDML format, which gives you two files, one figure
    		file (.SDML) and one FSE file
    
    Bingo. If you have a colour workstation you'll have to select `True
    B/W' on the DECwrite Preferences menu, and do a <ctrl/1> while you're
    in UTOX to get the right `image depth' (whatever _that_ is). (The
    UTOX documentation suggests a rather more radical way of getting true
    b/w, involving the setup of the workstation; that may be the supported
    way (unless I'm reading old docs) - but the way I do it's quicker and 
    easier. I think William of Occam would favoured it as well, if they'd
    had DECwindows in those days.)
    
    Purists may think that this route makes for poor resolution, but it's
    good enough for me (and it's a lot better than nothing).
    
    b

True, you can always do screen captures.  My point was that there is no
direct route to use DECwrite produced figures in DOCUMENT-produced online
books.

>    Purists may think that this route makes for poor resolution, but it's
>    good enough for me (and it's a lot better than nothing).

If you're just interested in bookreader books, then there's nothing wrong
resolution-wise with the method you described.  Whatever you display will be
limited by the screen's resolution anyways, so if you're using a capture at
screen resolution, it's just as good as anything else.  Hardcopy is a
different story though.  You will notice the jaggies in hardcopy.

-Mike

    Right Mike - I just didn't want people to get the message that
    graphics produced in DECwrite could never make it onto Bookreader.
    
    You're right too about noticing the jaggies in hardcopy.  Luckily,
    you can write the print file (postscript) straight out of DECwrite -
    then, with a bit of fiddling to get the placement right, you can
    call in the <figure_file> to your .sdml file.
    
    So .sdml and DECwrite can live with each other after a fashion, though
    it's not an ideal relationship.
    
    b

RE: .3 

Is the process you go through a difficult (tedious) one?  Or
after you get used to it, does it go rather quickly?

RE: .4 & .5

The "jaggies" you refer to - I lost something in the context.
Do you mean "jaggies" when producing syntax diagrams, and
do you mean specifically the output when capturing a screen?

One of the writers that works with me has been experimenting
with DECwrite to do syntax diagrams.  Using "snap to" and
reducing some text, I think it's getting to look pretty
darn good on hardcopy (looks very acceptable online).

He hasn't tried capturing a screen with it yet.

Rose

What about popping up DECwrite figures that are in DOCUMENT file?

Can you do that?

Rose

    �Is the process you go through a difficult (tedious) one?  Or
    �after you get used to it, does it go rather quickly?
    
    Tedious at first, but quick when you get used to it.
    
    
    �Do you mean "jaggies" when producing syntax diagrams, and
    �do you mean specifically the output when capturing a screen?
    
    The ones you can see on the _hardcopy_ output
    
    
    �What about popping up DECwrite figures that are in DOCUMENT file?
    
    Any formal figure (one with a caption) pops up.  Make sure you give
    it a symbolic name.  I don't think Bookreader cares how you drew it --
    if you code the .SDML file right, the picture pops up.
    
    b

    RE: .7 and .8.
    
    Bookreader doesn't care how you drew the figures but it *does* care
    what format they are in: Bookreader V2.0 and DOCUMENT V1.2B support
    RAGS metafiles and FSE bitmaps for online graphics. As stated in
    .2:
    
>>DOCUMENT V2 will be able to take in three things as bookreader figures:

>>- DDIF *image* files, such as can be made with DECpaint, PrintScreen, UTOX,
>>  RAGS.
    
>>- FSE bitmaps, made by UTOX or RAGS

>>- RAGS drawings.

>>DECwrite is unable to produce any of these types of files.  DECwrite makes
>>only DDIF compound documents.  DOCUMENT will NOT be able to take in DDIF
>>compound documents.  DECwrite also can make PostScript, but it is not
>>Encapsulated PostScript.
    
    and...
    
>>The new bookreader supplied with the next DECwindows release will be able to
>>use Encapsulated PostScript figures made by any tool.
    
    Mary
    

    Don't forget PECO, that unloved, unsupported hack.  We use an Andrew
    Gent extension to PECO that causes PECO to write out DECW$BOOKFIG
    files of some sort.
    
    To be complete, add that to the list of tools that can generate 
    graphics. 
    
    Kirk

    Most of the questions I have seen so far deal with trying to
    get data INTO bookreader format.
    
    Is it possible to extract data from a bookreader file and put 
    in into a text file?
    
    If this is not the correct place to ask please point me
    in the right direction.
    
    Thanks
    Dave Hyslip

    BULOVA::BOOKREADER is a better place to ask about that. 
    ONLINE_BOOKBUILDING is primarily a place to discuss creating online
    books via VAX DOCUMENT.
    
    Mark