Conference vaxuum::online_bookbuilding

    Richard
    	What baselevel of the online tools are you using? It'll be the 4th
    message down in a lis/log file and will look like this
    %TAG-I-LCL-MSG01,Using Online Bookbuilding Tools 4-December-1989 baselevel
    
    Also what kind of monitor are you displaying on 100/75 dpi?
    
    
    Mike

    Hi Mike,

    The 4th message down says:

    %TAG-I-LCL_MSG01, Using online bookbuilding tools, 27-October-1989 baselevel

    I am using a clustered MicroVAX II/RC, featuring 75dpi, 13MB of memory,
    SSB VMS V5.3 and SSB DECwindows V2.0.

    The only other thing I can think of to help is that I have what I think
    is called a 4-plane system, and I have to do my Online builds on
    somebody else's 1-plane system in order to get MOPS to swallow the
    pictures I am creating.

    Hope this helps

    Richard

    Well you've got all the right software so I think we'll need a small
    section of your source code that exhibits this behaviour. The smaller
    the better. You can either mail it to me or post it here
    
    Mike 

Perhaps this is the same problem...  I'm getting no hot spots and no 
margin icons. 

Some particulars:

   - I'm using DOCUMENT V1.2-A on BOOKIE, with the 27-October-1989 
     bookbuilding tools.

   - I am not including the VMS_BOOKNAMES file.

   - I invoked DOCUMENT once with and once without the following 
     qualifier:
         
         /SYMBOLS=DOC$LOCAL_FORMATS:CUP$ONLINE_DEFS.GDX

     The presence or absence of this qualifier appears to make no
     difference.

The log file is in BOOKIE::USER6:[MURRAY.PDD]PDDUG_PROFILE.LOG.

Finally, a question about margin icons: Are they or are they not supposed
to appear in online manuals? My reason for asking: There are three in a
particular chapter; and after several reviewers (using the hard copy version)
asked me to explain what those icons meant, I added material like "Each
logical design directory is indicated by the icon shown in the margin."
I can swear that the margin icons have always appeared in both the printed
and online versions of the book; however, if V2 of the Bookreader doesn't
show them, then I'll have to find places in my SDML files where I included
such explanations and delete or rewrite them. Or conditionalize the files
to omit the icon explanations in the online version (Yuccckkkk!).

    1. Make sure you are executing doc$local_formats:online_log_defs.com to
       make sure you are pointing to the correct version of the converter.
    
    2. Margin icons -- yes, they appear online BUT (because we have
       no margins to speak of) they appear *above* the text, rather
       than beside it. (So you may want to word things differently.)
    
       Some people elect not to use margin icons online because they
       can't be scaled. In many cases, the icon is  drawn very large
       and then scaled down for hardcopy. It can't be scaled down for
       online (this is a DECwindows restriction) and many of these
       'icons' are ridiculously large at full size.
    
       Mary
    

Re .5:  Mary - Thanks for the info re margin icons. I'll see what they
look like once I'm able to build the book, and will try to make any
explanatory text work for both hard copy and online forms.

As for doc$local_formats:online_log_defs.com -- yes, that is getting
executed.  Mike Fitzell sent me mail earlier saying he thought the
problem related to BOOKIE's doc$destinations.dat and/or online_destinations.dat
files (in doc$local_formats).  I've asked the system manager to check
into this.

    Thanks to some brilliant real-time investigation, including telephone
    talk-through and simultaneous e-mails flying back and forth via the
    satellite, Mike Fitzell tracked my problem down to some file or other
    which was missing 15 lines or so of crucial information.

    Many thanks for a job well done. Could .5 have the same problem?

    Regards

    Richard

    Just for the record, Chuck Murray asked me *exactly* how Mike Fitzell
    had fixed my problem, and so I tracked down the file:
    
    DOC$ROOT:[LOCAL.FORMATS]:DOC$DESTINATIONS.DAT

    and sent him the extra lines of code that Mike had had me add:

    destination BOOKREADER BOOKR -
     /dvi_filetype=.DVI_BOOKREADER -
     /exclude_action=(print) -
     /fonts_filetype=.VOILA_FONTS -
     /format_file=SDMLVOILA -
     /output_filetype=.DECW$BOOK -
     /special_characters=TEX$VOILACHARS
      parameter number HORIZONTAL_OFFSET
      parameter number VERTICAL_OFFSET
      parameter string STARTING_PAGE
      parameter string ENDING_PAGE
      parameter number NUMBER_OF_PAGES

    It fixed his problem. Now, since we are on different systems in
    different continents, it would seem unlikely that pilot error (or even
    system mangler error) was involved. Wouldn't it? Is anyone else
    suffering from this problem, and has anyone checked the kit?

    Regards

    Richard

Re .8:  The BOOKIE system manager made the fix, and it did
indeed fix the missing hot spot problem.

Unfortunately, however, two other problems remain (or more
precisely, one remains the the other resurrected itself):

1. There are still no margin icons -- anywhere (in the margin,
   above, below, etc.).

2. The problem I reported in 231 -- and that was fixed for a while --
   is a problem again. (And we are using the 27-October-1989 baselevel
   of the online bookbuilding tools.)

    Chunk-
    
    Would you send me a (short!) file that reproduces both these
    problems (missing margin icon and bad formatting when a
    <reference> tag is used in an interactive example)?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mary

Re .9 (update):

1. The missing margin icons were the result of a user error on
my part. I've correctly coded the <margin_icon> tags, and the
"problem" has disappeared.

2. I still can't solve the problem in which <reference> within
an interactive example causes an improper line break. I've
sent mail to Mary with info on my latest experiments.

    .8
    
    I'll disagree with you on root of the problem. The installation
    instructions clearly states what has to be done to doc$destinations.dat
    file and the relevant file is included in the kit and was present on
    your system. The code fragment I sent you was the simplest means at the 
    time and under the circumstances of getting your online tools working
    correctly. Admittedly having to append a file or two for an installation
    may be a pain and error prone but as the online tools are not part of 
    Document yet it's the only way possible. If the installation
    instructions are not clear enough or are confusing please let us know.
    
    MIke     

    Numerous people have had trouble with appending files. The
    post-installation tasks are often overlooked by system managers.
    
    With ONLINE soon to be bundled into the local DIGITAL kit, could 
    the kit specify each post-installation action upon completion of
    installation or write what needs to be done to a file (I think 
    RAGS does this).
    

    For the VAX DOCUMENT V1.2-B release with online bookbuilding bundled
    in, the design and destination stuff will be provided as part of the
    files in doc$standard_formats, so the user won't need to append them 
    to anything.
    
    This sets up the reverse situation, of course.  If you install the new
    kit over an existing version, the installation will not supersede the
    doc$designs.dat and doc$destinations.dat you've got in
    doc$local_formats.  Since they probably contain definitions for the
    online design family and destination, among other things, you'll have
    to remove the old references yourself.
    
    This will be spelled out clearly in the documentation (including kit
    announcements, etc.) for the benefit of those who read anything more
    than file pointers.  The others will find out by trial and error.
    
    Mark

Update to .11:  Thanks to Mary Utt, the problem with <reference>
causing an improper line break is fixed. She mailed me a new
version of CUP$ONLINE_DEFS.GDX, and the BOOKIE system manager placed 
it in CUP$LOCAL_FORMATS. I built the book with /SYMBOLS specifying
that file, and everything's fine. Moreover, Mary says that this fix
will be included in the next base level of the online bookbuilding
tools (so I won't need the /SYMBOLS qualifier then).

        Hi Mike,

.12> I'll disagree with you on root of the problem. The installation
.12> instructions clearly states what has to be done to
.12> doc$destinations.dat file and the relevant file is included in the
.12> kit and was present on your system.

    Aha! So the kit *was* the problem 8^) But seriously, this would explain
    why some, but not all, installations suffer from the problem. I would
    argue that an installation procedure which is "a pain and error prone"
    is not a very friendly beast to unleash on the world, but given that
    "it's the only way possible" and that V1.2B is just around the corner, I
    guess we should just drop the issue. And concentrate on the problems
    pointed out by Mark Devries in .14?

    Regards

    Richard