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Conference koolit::vms_curriculum

Title:VMS Curriculum
Moderator:SUPER::MARSH
Created:Thu Nov 01 1990
Last Modified:Sun Aug 25 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:185
Total number of notes:2026

122.0. "Curriculum implementation" by SUPER::MATTHEWS () Fri Mar 20 1992 13:49

    Let's discuss issues related to implementation of the new VMS
    curriculum (registration, advertising, etc.) here, unless they are
    extremely specific to one course. 
    
    The notes that mention implementation issues are:
    
    31.28
    49.70 -
    51.3 -
    73.6 - .10
    95.2
    
    I'll copy a couple of them here to get this note started; you may want
    to go back & read the others.
    
    I realize that the issues being discussed deal primarily with the US
    area, but perhaps the other areas can learn from the US experience.
    
    					Val
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
122.1SUPER::MATTHEWSFri Mar 20 1992 13:57345
    Here are a few representative replies: enough, I hope, to serve as a
    summary of the issues and a basis for further discussion. Carry on...
    
================================================================================
Note 51.3                     SYS/NET I ADMIN NOTE                       3 of 19
SAHQ::HAY                                            25 lines  13-JAN-1992 13:21
                             -< Marketing Problem >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Having just completed teaching SYSNET I, I ran into a situation where a
    number of students were expecting more material than offered for
    VAXcluster and Network Management.  Consequently their EXPECTATIONS
    were nor met.
    
    I offer the following MARKETING suggestion.  Refer to page 18 of the
    current "Digest" (Jan 92 - Jun 92).  Take a close look at the
    description for SYSNET I.  The use of the terms refering to VAXclusters
    and Networks are not misleading in the introduction.  However,  the
    highlighted area specifically mentions "VAXcluster System Management I"
    and "Network Management I".  If you read further you will find that
    VAXcluster System and Network Management skills are not mentioned in
    either the "Master These Skills" or "Detailed Outline" areas.
    
    Note also that SYSNET II does not refer to either VAXcluster System or
    Network Management.
    
    In view of this I recommend a choice of actions:
    
    1. Remove all reference to VAXcluster System Management and Network
    Management fron the "Digest", or
    
    2. Rename SYSNET I to "VMS for System Managers".  This would provide a
    complete set of "VMS for ..." courses.  Renaming of SYSNET II and III
    would be optional.
    
================================================================================
Note 51.5                     SYS/NET I ADMIN NOTE                       5 of 19
SONATA::SADLER "Change for a Flainian Pobble Bead?" 107 lines  23-JAN-1992 16:50
              -< An attempt at the Ultimate Answer... (not 42)! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry I haven't been able to reply before - I've been trying to fix some of the
issues...

This reply is intended to address the preceding replies in this note plus the
other similar ones on Programmer etc. I'll try to hit all the issues here, if I
miss any let me know and I'll backfill later. I'm not going to try to directly
address all the individual instances, but will try to cover everything in one
shot so you may need to think about the application to your specific input...

It seems to me that we have several problems to fix:

1. People getting on the wrong course

We're revisiting the training and materials that we provided to the registration
and sales folks to make sure that they're sufficient. All the specific instances
of misplacment are being investigated to determine the cause. It looks as if
they're teething troubles but we're watching very carefully. If you have other
instances in the US, please send them direct by mail to ESMAIL::TOWNE and
CC me (you can also post them if you wish).

2. Marketing Materials (Digest, Catalogues, Flyers etc)

We're going to rework all the materials in the light of the feedback we're
getting here - I agree with some of the points. In our zeal to make the courses
attractive we've maybe overstated some stuff. We'll try to ensure that there
is no possibilty of people being misled. In the meantime you can help by making
sure you go over the objectives and course description at the start of the
course.

The other issue here is caused by the level of detail that the Digest
descriptions allow - some items that show up in the general descriptions are not
sufficiently large to show up in the highest level of topics, which is all that
show in the Digest. The problem won't appear with the Catalogue. We'll try to
make the Digest stuff more internally consistent. We'll also look at removing
the references to other old courses as this seem to have to potential to
confuse people (which is the opposite of why they were included)

3. Course Titles


Thanks for the suggestions - however I don't think we can change the title again 
so soon. Ultimately I'd like to change the Sysnet titles to System and Network
NODE Management, but it will have to wait a while - at least till after we
remove the old courses, otherwise the confusion in the customer base will kill
us.


4. General Overall Issues:

- The restructuring is not yet complete - most of the topics that seem to be
missing at the moment will show up either in the Troubleshooting course or in
the 'specialist' VAXcluster, Security, Performance or Programmer II courses
later this year.

- The new curriculum takes a completely different approach to the subject
matter. We're trying to inculcate job-related skills and info in a phased
just-in-time fashion. This will, of necessity, tend to fragment the existing
material and some people will react against this - however it is our belief,
based on the Task Analysis that we did and on experience in Germany and field
inputs, that these will be in the minority, and the most of our customers will
be pleased with the new approach. 
As an example - it's true that you now have to take 3 classes to learn to
install VMS - the survey indicated clearly that this task is not carried out by
system managers until they are quite experienced, while installation of layered
products is important much earlier in their development. (Ref: System and
Network Management Job Analysis, Table 5 on Page 63) 

- There seems to be a misapprehension that a goal of the restructuring is to
lessen the total number of classes that someone has to take. This is not quite
right - the goal is to reduce the number that they take to GET STARTED, and we
have achieved this. The real goal is to decrease the number that they HAVE to
take, but to increase the number that they WANT TO and DO take. This is how we
will stay in business!!!!! 

- The other issue is the confusion as to what's happening with the old
curriculum, what's going away and when...

The idea is that we will eventually replace almost all the existing courses, and
that this will be complete by the end of next fiscal year (93). we will be doing
a Task Analysis for the Programmer audience, starting in February, and we'll
rework the Programmer piece once we have the results of that.

The existing 'back-end' system management courses (Performance, Security...)
will be replaced as soon as we can get them done - by the end of Q2 next fiscal
at the latest, in the meantime we'll keep them around for the people who've done
their 'basic training' and want to progress. 

The 2 that are causing the most confusion seem to be U&C II and Sysman II. 

The vast majority of the material in U&C II is all covered either in Programmer
I or in the Sysnet string, so it should go away very soon. We've defined
cross-over paths for eveyone who's taken U&C I and nothing else so there should
be little need for U&C II to survive long.

Syman II, on the other hand, will survive longer as we're recommending that
people who've done Sysman I and now want to progress should stick in the old
curriculum as the cross-over paths are too messy.



That's it for now.
                                          
Cheers,

Andy


    
================================================================================
Note 51.8                     SYS/NET I ADMIN NOTE                       8 of 19
MELKOR::SWIERKOWSKIS                                 28 lines  11-FEB-1992 20:18
                             -< one more time?!? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    From what I have seen in the notes files and memos going back and forth
>    between managers and registration, there is definately a problem here
>    and what instructors are hearing is that it is registration that is
>    telling them wrong.  On the other hand, registration is saying that all
>    of the registrars are trained and they are not telling customers wrong.
>    
>    We are in a vicious circle.  Let's hope for all of our sakes that this
>    gets settled soon.

We HAVE to settle this soon.  I find it absolutely impossible to believe that
all of our customers are lying about what central registration is telling 
them.  I'm certainly not going to suggest it to them when they start griping
about it on Monday mornings.  Have we forgotten that the customer is why we
are and that the customer is "always right?"

I would like to suggest that the registrars start doing what one of our local
did years ago.  She would ask whether they met the pre-req's for a course.
If they elected to take a course without the pre-req's, she told them that she
would make a notation on the enrollment form to that affect so that if there 
were a problem later on, she would have a record of it.  She also made notes 
indicating that she had asked what classes they had previously taken.  She
accomplished two things:  customers tended to do the right thing when they
knew it would be documented and she had proof that she was doing her job.

Simple?  Yes!


			Susan
    
================================================================================
Note 51.12                    SYS/NET I ADMIN NOTE                      12 of 19
CGVAX2::FERREIRA                                     36 lines   9-MAR-1992 16:59
                   -< A word from a Registra  pull together >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    OK folks... We're still working for the same company with the same set
    of goals, customer satisfaction and company growth.  Call it flag
    waving if you wish.  I have been fully trained in System Management,
    old curriculum.  The decision was made to re-structure the VMS
    curriculum.  It was well known by the decision makers that this would
    create some level of confusion to the customers.  Well it's happened.
    I'm currently on assignment with Central Registration and have been 
    since October '91.  Each and every member of their registration team
    does their best to help place/advise/consult each customer to the best
    of their ability or advise them to speak with one of the Training
    Consultants in OFO.   Every Registrar in Central Registration has been
    trained on the content of the "VMS Mastery Series".  This does not make
    them systems managers, magician or VMS Specialists.  There are NO
    Crystal Balls,  so the best they can do is ask the customer to evaluate
    their own comfort levels and tell us where they need to be.  We do make
    suggestions based on the career paths the customer have told us but the
    customer has ownership beyond that.  
    
    I can speak for most of the Registrars.  I/we do offer to fax full
    course descriptions to any customer who sounds confused concerned or
    undecided.  We often make follow-up calls and know most of our larger
    customers on a first name basis.  We always treat them with courtesy
    and respect.   Simply said we do the best we can to provide accurate 
    information from which they must make their own informed decision.  It
    comes as no surprise there's an occasional mis-placed student, I don't
    have the numbers to present percentages, but my guess is we(DECys) are
    doing quite well...   (FLAME OFF)
    
    I would be receptive to any and all critques you as Instructors have.
    Along with those, please send me or post suggestions you may have to 
    improve on our joint success in this space.
    
    Regards
    Frank (SCARGO::FERREIRA)  dtn 264-6620
    Graduate System Management Training Program (SMTP) class #3
    
================================================================================
Note 51.13                    SYS/NET I ADMIN NOTE                      13 of 19
NITTY::THORNE "Department of Redundancy Department"  26 lines  10-MAR-1992 10:31
                             -< Wait a minute... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    re: .12
    
    Well, in the good old days, when the registration was handled in the
    training centers, a registrar could always call on an instructor to
    answer technical training questions.  We still occasionally found
    misplaced students; but, not like what is being reported in this
    notesfile.  The fact is that customers calling in are going to need
    technical advise that simply cannot be furnished by anyone other than
    people who teach the course(s) in question.  FAXing a course
    description?  These people are trying to do business with us!  They're
    spending money to learn our products!  Why are we making this a
    difficult exercise for them?  There are plenty of competing training
    establishments that will spend HOURS with the customers to ensure that
    they are getting what they need for their training dollars.  I
    understand that the author of .12 isn't to blame for the present
    arrangement, I understand that we all work for the same company, and I
    also understand that we, as a company, MUST become more profitable. 
    We're not going to do that by making it more difficult for people to
    select which of our products to buy, and we're not going to do that by
    making it more difficult to do business with us.  People buying these
    services need technical support that goes beyond someone looking at a
    curriculum chart and FAXing course descriptions.  Having taken the
    courses and TEACHING the courses are two very different things.
    
    Mark Thorne
    Chicago Training Center
    
    

================================================================================
Note 51.18                    SYS/NET I ADMIN NOTE                      18 of 19
SCARGO::GREENWALD                                    64 lines  19-MAR-1992 17:09
                  -< Response from Centralized Registration >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Let me share with you what is happening here. I welcome your response
    via notes or calling directly.  I can honestly say that Registation is
    doing everything possible to place people in the proper courses.  There
    are problems that are much greater than Registration i.e., the mass
    misinterpretation of course content and level from what seems to be a
    result of the write-ups in the Digest as well as even our Dec Sales
    people misunderstanding and misrepresenting the curriculum to our
    customers.  It is quite typical for a student to call and request a
    course and the following scenario exits.  Let's say the course is
    SysNet I.  Registsrar:  Do you realize this is an entry level course? 
    Student says yes.  Registrar: Have you taken Utilities and Commands. 
    Again, student says yes.  The Registrar now has to explain to the
    customer that this is not the appropriate course.  The student is
    usually baffled.  He did not percieve the course in that light from
    what the read.
    
    We are lucky if it's as simple as the scenario I described above: one
    student, one course.  It's easy enough to make the switch. 
    Unfortunately, more often than not, we are speaking to training
    coordinators.  Just the other day, I spoke to a coordinator who was
    ready to register about five students for courses that were entirely in
    the wrong order including overlapping courses.  Needless to say, he was
    quite frustrated that he misunderstood the write-ups to such a degree. 
    We had to rework the entire schedules.  I faxed approximately 15 pages
    of cours flow maps which he appreciated.  Unfortunately, it is not an
    exaggeration to say that customers are more frequently than not
    calling and wanting to register for the wrong courses and Registrars
    are continuously put in a position to "talk them out" of these courses. 
    Sometimes, believe it or not, they insist on taking the courses despite
    the recommendations.
    
    As you are aware, another problem that exists is that a Customer
    Service Rep does not have anyone to pass a call to that has technical
    expertise.  The best a Registrar can do is fax a description of the
    course to a customer or pass the call to a Sales Consultant.
    
    The kinds of efforts that we have put in place include having one of
    our Reps enroll in the entire mastery series.  We are filling the
    business gap by putting in place our own course adviser.  We have
    developed our own training for Registsrars which include small
    group training and one-on-one.  As I noted above, we are so concerned
    about the confusion regarding these courses that we not only ask if the
    student has met the prerequisites but we probe further with two or
    three additional questions.  Again, one of our dilemmas is that we
    often speak to the caller who is not the student himself.  Usually when
    we ask if the student has met their prereques, the caller is unsure but
    "believes" the student has.  Rather than accepting this we have now
    learned to tell him that we will hold on the line while he contacts
    the student or we will call the student directly but, for the students
    sake, we need to be sure that this is the right course.  However, even
    with these efforts there will still be some misplaced students.  The
    problem is much greater than Registration.
    
    I don't blame any of the instructors for their frustration in trying to
    teach a class with students who are inappropriately attending that
    class.  Please understand that Registsration is doing everything they
    can do to help assure that students are placed in the correct courses. 
    Behind the scenes, we have been actively interfacing with those who we
    have identified can provide the support and changes we need  so that
    students properly understand the curriculum and make the correct
    choices.  I cannot stress enough that we all share the same goal--we
    are committed to satisfying the student and providing them with the
    training they deserve.
    
================================================================================
Note 51.19                    SYS/NET I ADMIN NOTE                      19 of 19
NITTY::THORNE "Department of Redundancy Department"  13 lines  19-MAR-1992 17:56
                         -< One instructor's response >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RE: .18
    
    	Thank you for replying in this forum.  I see you are facing the
    same kind of problems we faced when the registration effort was handled
    in the field.  I have dealt with the very scenarios you outlined in
    your note, as well as others.  Perhaps we need to provide an avenue
    between the instructors and the registrars that could supplement the
    support you are already putting into place.  You are welcome to call me
    with technical course questions in the areas of VMS, networking, or
    languages at DTN 474-5331.
    
    Mark Thorne
    Chicago Training Center
    
122.2My Dfl 0.035 worthNWGEDU::DEMAATErrare Digitalis EstSat Mar 21 1992 09:5239
Re .0    
>>    I realize that the issues being discussed deal primarily with the US
>>    area, but perhaps the other areas can learn from the US experience.
    
    Or perhaps the US can learn from other areas?  ;-)
    
    
    
    I personally did the briefing of the enrollment staff here in the
    Netherlands. It was a lot of work, not because they did not understand
    it, but because there is so much ground to cover.
    
    What we covered was:
    - Historical background
    - Layout of new curriculum
    - A per course discussion
    - Conversion issues old -> new curriculum
    - Possible misunderstandings/ratholes
    
    After the first briefing, which lasted over an hour and a half we had a
    second session where I checked their comprehension of the material
    (which was excellent) and we tried together to find solutions to
    possible problems (we just imagined a nasty, agressive and stupid
    customer on the phone).
    
    Once we got the marketing communications going all went very well.
    There were some minor problems, an odd mistake, many additional
    questions, but not a single upset customer.
    
    I have to add that the enrollment people could always call me in for
    help, we all work in the same building which is an enormous advantage.
    
    If I can make a strong suggestion to the US enrollment people: take
    Mark Thorne up on his offer to give standby help when needed. Mark has
    been involved in this project from the beginning so he knows what he is
    talking about. Besides, there is no-one who can convince a customer
    better on course selections than an instructor who gives those courses.
    
    			Rob
122.3Thank You!CGVAX2::GREENWALDMon Mar 23 1992 08:479
    
    Mark,
    
    Thank you very much for offering to give assistance in providing
    answers to technical questions.  We greatly appreciate this kind of
    help.
    
    Regards,
    Valerie
122.4Can we get the new stuff fixed? If not...SOAEDS::TRAYSERSeniority means a bigger shovel!Thu Apr 02 1992 00:299
  After having taught the whole string in Atlanta with mixed results, we
  were wondering if we could just go back and offer the old courses?  The
  specialty courses currently match up better with those courses and we
  think we can get better customer satisfaction and better SOF results
  with the old series.  
  
  Are the old materials still orderable?
  
  $
122.5The plan for the "specialist" courses.SONATA::SADLERChange for a Flainian Pobble Bead?Fri Apr 17 1992 18:2636
    To clarify the plans for the "specialist" courses such as the
    VAXcluster, Security and Performance courses...
    
    The plan is to rework all these courses to make them fit after the
    Sysnet string. We'll eliminate duplication with Sysnet (unless it's
    required for review purposes) and generally change the emphasis to the 
    "what" and "why" and away from the "how".
    
    In order to allow people who've taken the old curriculum to also take
    these new versions we're looking at some "bridge" courses, like this:
    
    
    Sysman I ------------->VAXcluster
    			    Bridge
    			      |
    			      V
    Sysnet III ------------------------------->  New VAXcluster
    						   course
    
    
    The "bridge" course would cover the skills that are in Sysnet I-III
    that are pre-req for the new cluster course. 
    
    The new cluster course will change emphasis from the day-to-day
    management of a cluster to the planning, design, implementation and
    longer term strategic issues around clusters.
    
    We're looking to use a similar approach with all the "specialty" areas.
    
    Comments?
    
    
    Andy
    
    
    
122.6Did you read these notes yet? How about the many others?SOAEDS::TRAYSERSeniority means a bigger shovel!Sat Apr 18 1992 03:555
  Andy,
  
    Please read 136.3 and 123.2 regarding tying this stuff in with SysNet3.
  
  $
122.7Registration ConcernSCARGO::GREENWALDTue Aug 04 1992 17:0630
    Registration recently noticed that all sessions have been canceled for
    VMS System Management II (old curriculum).  This means that
    Registration does not have a strong alternative for students who have
    taken Utilities and Commands as well as System Management I and are
    looking for the next System Management course.  Please let us know what
    solution you recommend.
    
    The best we can suggest is that they can take Sysnet II as long as they
    are aware that they will receive approximately a 35% review of System
    Management I.  They can then go onto Sysnet III in the mastery series.
    
    Please be aware that our Registration system prompts us that Sysnet III
    is a replacement for System Management II. While I understand why the
    decision was made to show that Sysnet III is a replacement for System
    Management II this has proven to be confusing for new hires.  As we
    know, Sysnet III is not a direct replacement for System Management II. 
    (It encompasses approximately 20% of the old System Management II
    course.)  In fact a student should not be steered to Sysnet III at all
    if they are looking for System Management II--as we all know, the rule
    of thumb is that if they have taken System Management I within the
    old curriculum they should continue with the old curriculum and not
    move into the mastery series.  Since System Management II is no longer
    available I think it is confusing for the prompt on the system to
    indicate that Sysnet III is a replacement course;  Sysnet II with a 35%
    review is probably a better direction.  Do you agree?
    
    As a last note, please be aware that Registrars will make a note in the
    comments section of a Registration when a student falls in this
    category to alert the instructor.  Please be sure to retrieve those
    notes from the field Educaton and Training Administration Personnel.
122.8Keep them out of the Sys Net string entirely after SM ISOAEDS::TRAYSERSeniority means a bigger shovel!Thu Aug 06 1992 01:5420
|    The best we can suggest is that they can take Sysnet II as long as they
|    are aware that they will receive approximately a 35% review of System
|    Management I.  They can then go onto Sysnet III in the mastery series.
  
  No.  Let's not send students that have had SM I to SN II, these courses
  have more in common than 35%.  SysNet III would be OK, but I'd suggest
  they select either VMS Network Management I, VMS System Performance,
  VAXcluster Management or VMS/DECnet Security Management.  Any of these
  would be preferable to putting them into the SysNet string.

|    (It encompasses approximately 20% of the old System Management II 
|    course.)  ...   Sysnet II with a 35% review is probably a better
|    direction.  
   
  I'm not sure where you got the 20% and 35% numbers, but these seem really
  off base.  Your best bet is to tell them that "Your generic System
  Management training is finished, please pick a specialty area in which 
  to continue your studies."

$
122.9Ask for assistanceDLO10::VASSILOSThu Aug 06 1992 12:4511
    I think the way you described handling requests for VMS System
    Management II is good.  As an instructor, I would ask what the course
    participant needed & wanted to gain from taking another management
    course and would try guide them in deciding based on more details.  I
    would hope that registraion has the support of people that know the
    content courses.  In former times, it was not uncommon for the registra
    at my training center to transfer calls to instructors to assist
    customers in making such decisions.
    
    No easy answers...
    Andrea
122.10Assistance is WelcomeSCARGO::GREENWALDThu Aug 06 1992 18:2324
    
    When I refer to percentages, I am taking them right out of the VMS
    reference guide that was distributed throughout the county.
    Does an update exist??  Registration has not received anything.
    I will contact the product manager right away. 
    
    Registration will do its best to probe and find what the best course is
    for the student as suggested. As you know, Registration does not have
    technical expertise but understands the curriculum flow.  We rely on
    faxing descriptions, tools such as the VMS reference guide and
    assistance from  one Registrar who we put through the mastery
    series. All Registrars are  trained in first level advising but, no, 
    we do not have a network of instructors who will assist with in depth
    calls. One instructor has offered to help us which we greatly appreciate 
    but, unfortuately, we do not have a network of support.  I know this is
    something the business is addressing and we hope will  be established
    soon.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
122.11CGVAX2::GREENWALDFri Aug 07 1992 12:185
    I have sent a note to the Product Managers asking them how to handle
    the cancel of System Management II and if the percentages in the VMS
    reference guide are still accurate.  I'll let you know what their 
    reply is.
    z
122.12By the way: number of misplaced students has dropped here.SOAEDS::TRAYSERSeniority means a bigger shovel!Sat Sep 26 1992 04:2230
|    When I refer to percentages, I am taking them right out of the VMS
|    reference guide that was distributed throughout the county.
|    Does an update exist??  Registration has not received anything.
|    I will contact the product manager right away. 

  While rereading some old notes I can across this again and I thought 
  I'd follow up on this.  I've looked over the table of contents of 
  SNI, SNII and SNIII and compared them to SMII.  Comparing the amount
  of *TIME* lecturing rather that the number of *topics* discussed
  in the modules is where the confusion comes in.  

  Based on *time* spent in lecture on the various topics, SysNet III gets
  more of its material from SM II than any other single course (although
  Network Management is pretty close).  From the SM II side, several of its
  topics are spread across all three SN courses.  There is a lot of
  material in SN II from SM II, and if you just count *topics* in the table
  of contents then the *number of topics* is a pretty high percentage.

  Based on this, I'll stick with my comments earlier (in 122.8), students
  that have had System Manager I and are looking for the 'next' course
  should be directed to the specialty courses and should avoid entering the
  SysNet string entirely.  There really isn't anyplace they can enter
  without 1) getting lost and 2) getting redundant information.  If they
  haven't had Network Management, that is probably the best place to send 
  them since that is the topic most heavily introduced in the current
  string that was *NOT* covered at all in the SM I & II courses.

  Hope this helps (Hope you are already having success placing students!)
  
  $