Conference koolit::vms_curriculum

    	A draft of the third Sysnet II chapter entitled:
    
    	Using Symbols to Manipulate Data
    
    		is available for review in:
    
    		SUPER::ES$REVIEW:[SYSNET_II]SYSNETII_CHAP3.PS
    
    			Wendy

    Review comments on the chapter:
    
    	Using Symbols to Manipulate Data
    
    There's a lot in this chapter but handled creatively it shouldn't prove
    a problem for instructors.
    
    Page	Comment
    ----	-------
    1-5a	This date example of string reduction is a favourite
    		of mine but I'd like to find a current use. 
    		
    1-8a	The comparisons with Fred and Yogurt should have
    		uppercase initials in the statements in parentheses
    		For example:
    		   "Yogurt" is true (begins with "Y", for YES)
    
    1-23	First example: why not use FIRST_NAME for the
    		symbol when FULL_NAME is spelled completely?
    
    1-33a	Penultimate line: nit - uppercase A should be lowercase
    
    1-34	Bullet 6: typo - parenthesis -> parentheses

                        Module 3
               Using sysmbols to manipulate data

I think alot of the lexical function examples should be an an 
appendix in the back of the chapter. By having all the examples as part
of the main chapter, you force the instructor to go over each one
and I'm not so sure its that important to know how to use all these
lexicals. Once you get the hang of a few by reading the documentation you
can get the hang of the format and arguments. I find from teaching U and C II
that they are so asleep when you go over this many lexical examples.
Maybe pick out some common lexicals and go over those and out the rest in the
appendix.


Wendy Mullenhoff

	Review of chapter:

	USING SYMBOLS TO MANIPULATE DATA

Page 1-15: Last example:
	   
	   $ PRINT 'NAME''TYPE'  missing dot  $ print 'name'.'type'

Page 1-20: second bullet
           typo sting ------> string

Page 1-21a: Use with every lexical the parentheses.
	    Now every example say the function. F$CVTIME  etc.
	    But a lexical function always needs his parentheses.

Remark, why not set this chapter like System Management II.
Mel, you know(?). You worked this out with Fred Apon.
First you explain there are four kind of lexical functions. Process, System,
File, Character.
With all this four we make a list. And then we make four appendix. A,B,C,D.
Then it's up to the instructor which lexical he will explain. Then student can
always read the appendix.
I hope this is what you mean Wendy? (re 76.3).

Page 1-32: Layout problem in the example.
                                                        Process ID:
                             P's under each other. +--- Process name:
                                                   

This is it.

Bye Arjen.
     

    
    Arjen,
    
    Hi. The format of this chapter has been changed for USER II,
    and these chapters were included directly from that course. In
    that course, we are teaching users directly out of only three 
    days of VMS training just a bit about how to use lexical
    functions.
    
    First, there is no reason why in THIS course we can't reorder
    it to be like Fred and I came up with for SYSMAN II last year.
    Not a problem.
    
    However, before we decide to do that, I think we should consider
    the following points:
    
    	1. We have a goal of making our courses TASK/JOB oriented,
    	and grouping lexical functions together by what kind of
    	information they provide is not TASK/JOB oriented, it is
    	DOCUMENTATION oriented.
    
    	2. SYSNET II is not an equivalent course to the existing
    	SYSMAN II. I think we tend to forget that SYSMAN II was an
    	advanced course that was usually taken by system managers
    	after they had taken SYSMAN I, had some [sometimes a couple of
    	years] on-the-job training, and often came after taking
    	U&C II. SYSNET II, on the other hand, is going to be a follow-on
    	course for SYSNET I...which is equivalent to U&C plus a few
    	system management 'goodies' thrown in. 
    
    Any other comments on re-ordering for this course? I am open to
    any rearrangement that you folks think is more appropriate, but I
    would like to keep the above two points in mind while we hash it
    out.
    
    Thanks
    
    Mel

    
    	The two week time period for reviews is over.
    
    	Any comments entered after this note will be considered, time
    permitting.
    
    			Wendy

		Using Symbols to Manipulate Data
		Chapter 3

Would it be better to put the Lexical Functions in an appendix and let
the instructor discuss the ones they like and use?

1-3	The first objective is not really addressed in this chapter.

1-4	The first topic is not addressed in this chapter.

1-15	Replace the symbol TYPE with maybe FTYPE in the last example.
	I tell my students to try and not use DCL commands for symbols.

1-17	I don't know if it is possible but an example would be nice
	showing the student what is going on behind the scene.

1-28	An example using stream-id would be nice.

1-32 	Put a note to the student that the returned string always
	contains uppercase letters for the  F$MODE function.

1-34a	What exactly is being said in the last sentence on this instructor's
	page?

1-34	The first bullet maybe should read "(UIC) in alphanumeric format"
	versus "(UIC) in name format".
	Sixth bullet - parentheses is spelled incorrectly.

1-35	Remove the ; from the end of the first line.


Lynn White
Washington D.C.

I think the revised draft addresses all the comments except these, due to
the limited development time. If you have specific examples that would
help, please send or post them.

>1-17    I don't know if it is possible but an example would be nice
>        showing the student what is going on behind the scene.

>1-28    An example using stream-id would be nice.