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Conference koolit::vms_curriculum

Title:VMS Curriculum
Moderator:SUPER::MARSH
Created:Thu Nov 01 1990
Last Modified:Sun Aug 25 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:185
Total number of notes:2026

30.0. "DW COURSE DISCUSSION" by HARDY::BUNNELL () Thu Jan 17 1991 08:50

	Hi Folks,

	I would like your opinions, suggestions, ideas etc. on 
	how to proceed with the DECWindows (referred to as DW) course
	development. These questions have to be considered before we can 
	develop the course. 

	My questions are:
	
	- What do DW users want? 
		A separate DW course? A DW appendix to the new VMS courses? 
		Do they need VMS stuff at all (command line  information)?

	- How do you perceive the DW audience? 
		mostly users, programmers, operators..? 

	-  Is there a need for a MOTIF course or appendix?

=======================================================================

	There are several possible ways of creating the DW course.

		1.  create a separate course for DW Users, containing DW
		specific info--a 3 day course like Intro to VMS for Users.
		    	1a. Then add a 2 day advanced piece for
			programmers/operators.

		2. Add the DW data as an appendix to the Intro to VMS for Users
			and add an advanced DW piece to the Advanced VMS 
			course.

		3. Currently the DW USERS have been using/buying the CBI
		So, in this case just produce a DW LL for programmers.

		4. Should MOTIF be featured as an appendix, or a separate
			course?	Have there been requests for MOTIF
			instruction?

Thanks,
Hannah
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30.1Not too much neededNWGEDU::DEMAATMemorandus ad nauseumMon Jan 21 1991 07:4158
Here is the point of view of the Dutch curriculum management.
    
DECWindows has always been a difficult child in our curriculum.
It changed faces, it behaved abnormally and our original
expectations were disappointed several times.

In more concrete terms: we have tremendous difficulty turning our
DECwindows courses into a profitable enterprise. We see a number
of reasons for this:

1 - Workstations here come bundled with the Intro to DECWindows
    CBI.
2 - Many workstations are purchased for application users, that
    will receive a turn-key system that logs them straight into
    their application.
3 - The technical workstation users usually have extensive DCL
    knowledge and will sort things out themselves rather than
    sit through a course that basically contains subjects that
    are deadly boring to them.
4 - Departments that have purchased a workstations are not always
    that rich as traditonal EDP departments, therefore they want
    to spend little or no money on training.


Practically speaking it is very difficult for many Training
Centres to have a mixed class of Terminal and Workstation users
for one course. You never know how many to get on the course, and
if you impose a limit on the number of workstations students the
class average is going down badly. For smaller Training Centres
it is not possible invest in large amounts of Hardware to
accommodate all kinds of workstation interface users.

What we want is the following:

- Base the low-level VMS curriculum for technical users (system
  managers, operators system programmers) on character cell
  terminals. If they do have a workstation they will have to use
  the terminal window anyway. A thin Appendix on DECwindows could
  be added, but we can well live without.

- Create a low-level course for Workstation users that is one day
  long and teaches them how to use the H/W and basic
  functionality on DECWindows (menu's, icons, selections etc).
  This course should be better than the current CBI which lacks
  in depth. We could sell a course like this claiming that it
  'forces' the student thoroughly through the material since CBI's 
  tend to get raced through.

- Create a decent course for those programmers that want to
  create an application with built-in DECWindows interface.

- All DECwindows interfacing should be Motif based since I
  understand that is going to be our standard.

I hope this clarifies our points well enough.

			Rob
    
30.2A divided target groupCOPCLU::SVENDSENTue Jan 22 1991 03:5669
       Hi There

       I think the description of the DW users in reply .1 are
       quite accurate. They either know what to do at the
       $-prompt, or they do not care. The lowlevel users normally
       treat their workstation as a PC. They turn it off, when it
       is not needed (shutdown????!), and complains about the
       lack of sound. The high level users are interested in
       stuff like how to mix Ultrix and VMS workstations. I think
       that a important part of any DW-corr. should include MOTIF
       and Ultrix. UlTRIX should be an integrated part of any VMS
       DW course, as this more and more becomes the reallity of
       our customers. I know that this may sound #@&/%&$$ in some
       ears, but still isn't it the realliy at the workstation
       marked?

       Another issue - Have any of you tried to teach windowing
       systems? Are you also drawing boxes like mad on the
       whiteboard??? May be we should consider some other media
       than paper & whiteboard? Wouldn't it be nice with a clear
       video that demonstrated all this windowing business, so
       you could concentrate on telling the students the inner
       workings of DW, instead of doing the mouse-walz?

       The only DW courses we have been able to get somewhere are
       a Windows overview course, and a tech. DecWindows
       programming.

       The following are comments to re. .1:

>What we want is the following:
>
>- Base the low-level VMS curriculum for technical users (system
>  managers, operators system programmers) on character cell
>  terminals. If they do have a workstation they will have to use
>  the terminal window anyway. A thin Appendix on DECwindows could
>  be added, but we can well live without.

       Agree 100%

>- Create a low-level course for Workstation users that is one day
>  long and teaches them how to use the H/W and basic
>  functionality on DECWindows (menu's, icons, selections etc).
>  This course should be better than the current CBI which lacks
>  in depth. We could sell a course like this claiming that it
>  'forces' the student thoroughly through the material since CBI's 
>  tend to get raced through.

       We have more or less made one DECWindow overview for
       management ourselves, and it sells (not well but it
       sellls). The abowe would be very nice to include in customized
       courses, but getting endusers to pay for a days windowing
       would take some more meat on the course.

>- Create a decent course for those programmers that want to
>  create an application with built-in DECWindows interface.
>
       Agree 100%

>- All DECwindows interfacing should be Motif based since I
>  understand that is going to be our standard.
>
       Indeed


       Best.

       JOSS