| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 19.2 | A Quick Review of Purpose of the Course... | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Fri Jan 11 1991 11:31 | 31 |
|
Ed,
Feel a need to jump in here.
I understand your comments about moving much of the advanced DCL
command procedure topics to "Advanced System Management" but I think
you are forgetting a premise of this course string.
People who are going on to System Management will not be taking this
course, or it's precessor...VMS FOR APPLIATION USERS. _Those_ folks
will take VMS FOR SYSTEM MANAGERS, [And, for that matter, the placement
of these topics is still very much up for grabs in _that_ course
string]
The folks who are taking these two courses are expected to be
_terminal_ with these two courses. In other words, our target audience
here [as stated in the project plans] are USERS who will remain USERS
but who want to be able to use DCL in a more sophisticated manner.
Certainly System Managers are not the only users who want to be able to
write complicated DCL Command Procedures.
Having said that, I also think that the transition from Beginner to
Command Procedure Writer is abrupt in these two pieces. Can you help us
smooth the way...and perhaps we do need to remove some of the
information...but we need to _keep_ the concept that the student _will_
learn a good deal about writing useful Command Procedures.
Thanks, Ed.
Mel
|
| 19.3 | VMS for adv. appl. user and system managers | NWGEDU::JANSSEN | | Mon Jan 14 1991 03:50 | 47 |
|
Hi Mel,
Here my reaction to your comments.
> People who are going on to System Management will not be taking this
> course, or it's precessor...VMS FOR APPLIATION USERS. _Those_ folks
> will take VMS FOR SYSTEM MANAGERS, [And, for that matter, the placement
> of these topics is still very much up for grabs in _that_ course
> string]
I think that's not true. In Holland almost 80, maybe 90 percent of the
system managers student follow at the moment Utilities and Commands 1
and 2 !!, System Manager 1 and after a few weeks, months System Manager
2. So I think that the curriculum in the ESDP course specification (
VMS for appl. users, VMS for adv. appl. users, Intro to
networks/clusters so VMS for system managers) will be followed by the
system manager students in Holland
> The folks who are taking these two courses are expected to be
> _terminal_ with these two courses. In other words, our target audience
> here [as stated in the project plans] are USERS who will remain USERS
> but who want to be able to use DCL in a more sophisticated manner.
> Certainly System Managers are not the only users who want to be able to
> write complicated DCL Command Procedures.
Alright, then you have to change VMS for system manager, so that the
modules VMS for adv. appl. users for real Advanced_appl_users are not
the same as VMS for adv. appl. users for real system managers, by
replacing some subject to the VMS for System Managers II course.
Besides you create more time for system managers subjects, because one
day is to little for a student who wants to become a starting system
manager after a week.
> Having said that, I also think that the transition from Beginner to
> Command Procedure Writer is abrupt in these two pieces. Can you help us
> smooth the way...and perhaps we do need to remove some of the
> information...but we need to _keep_ the concept that the student _will_
> learn a good deal about writing useful Command Procedures.
I think a novice VMS user (application user) has enough problems with
the subject in the modules of the course VMS for appl. users. Therefore
no writing comm. procedures for application users
Ed.
|
| 19.4 | Need comments from other instructors! | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Mon Jan 14 1991 12:56 | 76 |
|
Hi Ed,
Here we go...
Let me review the stated premise of the new curriculum.
Regular old...[...] users will take one to two courses:
VMS FOR APPLICATION USERS
VMS FOR ADVANCED APPLICATION USERS
Students who are taking the course and plan to be System Managers
will take:
SYSTEM/NETWORK MANAGEMENT I
SYSTEM/NETWORK MANAGEMENT II
...
SYSTEM/NETWORK MANAGEMENT III
SYSTEM/NETWORK MANAGEMENT IV
The first two courses will take the place of the current courses:
Utiltiies and Commands
System Management I
_Neither_ of these NEW courses is in this project. They are
part of the System Management Curriculum project.
Students who take these NEW courses and plan to be OPERATORS
will take VMS FOR OPERATORS.
And Students who are PROGRAMMERS will take VMS FOR PROGRAMMERS.
These four assumptions are the basis for the entire re-structuring
of the course curriculum. We have stated up front...that students will
not longer take a 'generalist' course and then choose a 'specific'
string after as we did with U&C and OPERATOR and SYSTEM MANAGER.
Rather, they will take a SPECIFIC introductory course that will
provide more detailed prepraration for their chosen specialty.
If we have a lot of disagreement about that premise, we need to
really look vary hard at the work we have done in the last 8
or so months...because it is all predicated on these four assumptions.
Are there other comments out there?
---
Anyway....if we accept these assumptions...then we must build courses
that actually prepare the 'specialized' student. Operators will learn
operator flavored U&C; Programmers will learn programmer flavored U&C;
and Users must be provided in two courses a reasonable expectation of
being a relatively sophisticated user...else why take the second
course.
Further, if we take a look at the olf course string....what the student
learned in SYSMAN I was a bunch of theory and some practicle
applications of tasks that SYSTEM MANAGERS need to do....then in SYSMAN
II...they picked up some advanced command procedure stuff. [Is that
right?]
What we are suggesting is that students who are _not_ going to be
system managers can skip the system management topics and just go
directly to some advanced command procedure stuff...once they have
learned basic U&C.
This is an important question folks. The entire structure is based
in these assumptions...can I have more input please?
Thanks
Mel
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| 19.5 | Mel is correct in her acssumptions | CECV01::SADLER | anyone change a Flainian Pobble Bead? | Mon Jan 14 1991 17:40 | 10 |
|
Just to reinforce Mel's message in .4 - our basic premise is that we
will separate the various audiences. What is missing from this
conference in a description of the System/Network Curriculum
restructuring that is also going on. I hope to be able to remedy that
within a couple of weeks.
Cheers,
Andy
|
| 19.6 | VMS for appl. and adv. appl. users | NWGEDU::JANSSEN | | Tue Jan 15 1991 03:10 | 16 |
| Hi Mel,
So the modules in VMS for appl. users and adv. appl. users are not
the same as in the course System/Network Management I. Nevertheless, we
have to watch out, to put not too much theory in the courses.
An normal application user don't need to know how to write a command
procedure. An adv. appl. users knows enough if he can write an easy
command procedure, without lexicals, symbol overlay, creating own
logical name tables, concealed logical names etc. Let's say our present
utilities & commands I is a good base for an adv. appl. user.
A courseweek is very short. If we want to give them enough exercises,
to put in practice the theory they learned, especially writing command
procedures.
Ed.
|
| 19.7 | Well - Give them what they need & and don't worry | COPCLU::SVENDSEN | | Tue Jan 15 1991 09:00 | 98 |
| Hi Mel.
I regard this restructuring as a adaption. What we have to do, is
to adapt what we teach to the actual needs of the customer.
Customers change as their business changes. In Europe the
business structure is moving away from the old frozen
EDP-organisation, that looked like this.
--------
| USER |
BOSS --------
/ \
Development Service
| |
Analyst System programmers
| |
Programmer operators
You had a department responsible for the running of the computer,
and a depertment responsible for the programming of the monster.
The user was (and is?) an abitrary unit floating outside it all.
Today - we are moving on to a more democratic structure as the
persons using the computer do have a much more central role than
before. I looks a little like this.
--------
| BOSS |
--------
analyst/consultant
/ \
Super user ------- system programmer
|
user
The user knows a lot about her job, but ia not afraid of EDP and
knows what she wants. The super-user does all the administrative
EDP work as user registration and basic system admin. For the
heavy stuff the system programmer is called for. He is normally
the system guru, and may do some programming as well. The
analysts/consultants acts as consultants for both of them, in
order to get the application running. This person can very well
be a DEC person, as this function is normally regarded as
organizationel overhead. The Boss, now knows that if her EDP
system supports her employees in their work, then they will be
happy employes, and happy employees makes business better.
This means that I will not hesitate a moment in making a course
like this:
VMS overview.
terminal functions.
login.
user registration
queue management.
I regard this modularizations as a possibility to make courses
like this, as our basic funtion is to supply people with the
information they need, not the information We think they can not
live without.
Our basic VMS courses are structured like this.
VMS intro
Endusers - that needs to know some of the basic functions
of VMS, but never will see a $-prompt.
VMS admin.
Basic admin course for people that needs to run a VMS
machine, but have no VMS experience.
VMS U&C
Basic course for super users - A combination af U&C 1 and
U&C 2.
VMS U&C 3 days.
Basic course for system programmes - Higher prerequisites
needed that VMS U&C.
sys man 1 & sys man 2.
Just as normal.
I am looking forward to beef these courses up, with the new
materials, as a revision is badly needed. The materials wil
further more give us posibility to do customized versions of
these courses far more easily than now, and that will be a big
selling point.
Best
JOSS
|
| 19.8 | Curriculum Overview wanted | NWGEDU::DEMAAT | Memorandus ad nauseum | Wed Jan 16 1991 04:16 | 63 |
| Ed and I looked at the discussion on this topic and have come up
with some conclusions:
The basic problem seems to be that many details are known about
the restructuring of U&C and very little about the restructuring
of SysMan. For instance: is the proposed VMS for System Managers
course the same as Sys/Netman Management I? I don't think we can
review the U&C string properly without having the same good look
at the Sys/Netman string. Andy (.5) please don't just "hope to be
able to remedy that within a couple of weeks". Make sure the
Sys/Netman string is opened up just as Mel has done for U&C (for
which my compliments). I have seen too many courses "thrown over
the wall" that were torn to pieces when they hit the classrooms.
I don't think there will be a lack of feedback on the Sys/Netman
string proposal. It is ESSENTIAL to our business and generates
the majority of our Customer Training income.
Assuming VMS for System Managers is really part of the Sys/Net
string the remaining problem is Ed's worries about the amount of
material and its depth in the VMS for Application Users versus
the VMS for Advanced Application Users. Mel, could you be more
specific about which characteristics are envisaged to belong to
the target groups? I am especially interested to see how we are
going to serve the user who basically works in a very limited
environment (Menu-driven DCL interface, yechh...). We are losing
ground there since customers tend to train those people more and
more themselves, since they only need to know the basics of
Terminal Handling, Logging in and out, Files and Mail. We might
win them back if our course has no more traditional "let me
explain to you how VMS works, first the process and its four
elements...".
Finally my major worry. How are we going to implement this? I
hope ESCM does not think that we can just switch to the new
courses. First of all we want the switch to a new curriculum and
not just introduce new courses. Secondly we also have to think
about those halfway trained in the old curriculum, when the new
one hits the streets. What we need is a good overall plan that
shows us hard dates and of course the details of the curriculum
(both U&C and Sys/NetMan) and the courses within. Once that is
known the various sites can then set up their local introduction
plans covering issues like:
- Producing a new catalog
- Communicating the new Curriculum to customers
- Training Enrollment and Sales People
- Prepping instructors
- Logistics
Our estimate is that we need about six months from beginning to
end. The beginning will be when the whole curriculum is known in
enough detail and the 'go' decision is taken. The end is the
actual course delivery.
To stop you worrying, we are not threatening the many
(wo)manmonths of work already invested in this project. We merely
want to be highly critical when it is still possible to partly
control the development, in order to get a better product.
Hope this entry makes things clearer. We are still very
enthusiastic about the upcoming changes and strongly support the
basic assumptions that made the original design.
Rob
|
| 19.9 | VMS for adv. app. users (revision) | NWGEDU::JANSSEN | | Wed Jan 16 1991 08:25 | 156 |
| VMS for Advanced Application Users
==================================
I would recommend to replace the next subject from the course "VMS for
Application Users" to this course ("VMS for Advanced Application Users"):
- defining keys
- logical names
- ACL (no high priority)
- symbols
- writing command procedure (the module from "VMS for appl. users" is
extensively enough for the course "VMS for Advanced Application Users")
This theory and of course a lot of exercises is more than enough for an
advanced application user.
The modules advanced dcl concepts, lexicals, symbols (overlays), command
procedures (error-handling, subroutines, file i/o) have to be replaced to the
course "Advanced system management", which should be followed after the course
"VMS for system managers" and a few weeks of real experience as system manager.
This course "Advanced system management" has to contain for example "writing
advanced command procedures", "creating help-libraries, "user authorization
(deepening of authorize utility, diskquota)","queue management","storage media
management (deepening of some commands)","tailoring startup command
procedures", "software installation", "system integrity". This of course
provided with a lot of exercises, also for software installation.
After this course the advanced system-manager can grow to an experienced
system manager by following the course "Experienced system manager" our todays
"system manager II"
With this curriculum you give the customer the oppertunity to do some system
manager actions (like ie adduser.com, backups, managing queues) already after
one course-week and can grow to advanced and experienced system manager.
Chapter DCL concepts
====================
1) Mention also the remote and dialup proces.
Please add the next figure
local
/
interactive ---- dialup
/ \
/ remote
detached -
\
non-interactive - batch
\ network
interactive
/
/
sub proc.-
\
non-interactive
2) On page 1-13 priviledges has to be privilege.
3) Is it necessary to talk about ACL on page 1-13.
4) Is the logical SYS$OUTPUT on page 1-15 already known by the students,
because in the "VMS for application users" it is not necessary to talk about
logicals.
5) What is the benefit of so much qualifiers for the command DIFFERENCES on
page 1-16.
6) Put a slash in front of COMMENT_DELIMITER page 1-16
7) On page 1-20 there is an example with the qualifier /NUMBER, but this
qualifier is not mentioned in the table 1-4 on page 1-20
8) On page 1-23 the align_char # is in the text, the same on page 1-28.
9) I can not understand the relationshipbetween the chapter title "Advanced DCL
concepts" and the commands differences, search, sort and merge.
Chapter Symbols
===============
1) Don't talk about symbol overlays. It is not necessary for an advanced
application user. Symbol overlays is a subject for the advanced system managers
course. Symbol substitution is for an advanced application user necessary.
2) I miss the figure 1-1 "Accessing Local and Global Symbol table" in the text.
3) What is the benefit of the word "markmarkmarkmark" on page 1-12.
4) Please give examples on page 1-12 at "string manipulation rules".
5) Give an explanation of the examples in table 1-12 on page 1-19, the same you
did on the instructor page 1-19a. The example C = .NOT. 3 is too difficult to
understand for an application user, also for an advanced application user. So
give for preference examples with comparing of logical operation with
expressions, i.e. A = ( "TEST" .EQS. "test) .or. ("HELP" .EQS. "HEL")
6) Give examples at the "Phases of command processing" on page 1-26
Chapter "Using Logical Name Tables"
===================================
1) Please replace the subject "Logical name directory tables" to the
"Experienced system manager" course.
The subjectmatter creating and using logical names is difficult enough for
student on this level.
2) Replace the /translation_attributes=terminal and concealed to the "Advanced
System Managers" course.
3) Replace this chapter to "Advanced System Manager" course and put the theory
in the "VMS for application users" intothis course "VMS for Advanced
Application Users". That theory is more than enough for an advanced application
user.
Chapter "Command Procedures"
============================
1) Please indent the command line if you use the:
$ IF .....
$ THEN ....
$ ELSE ....
$ ENDIF
statement (page 1-12)
2) Give an example for the CALL-command on page 1-15
Even for the GOSUB-command page 1-16
3) I miss figure 1-1 "Using CALL and GOSUB" on page 1-17.
4) Don't use lexicals if you didn't already taught about them (page 1-19. page
1-20, page 1-22).
5) Don't use "on control/y" in your subject-header on page 1-38, this will give
confusion.
6) The theory about "Handling File I/O Errors" is very, very thin.
Chapter "Lexicals"
================
1) Replace this chapter to the "Advanced System Manager" course.
Ed Janssen
|
| 19.10 | Overall plan now available | CECV03::SADLER | anyone change a Flainian Pobble Bead? | Fri Mar 01 1991 17:54 | 11 |
| I have finally managed to finish my write-up of the overall porgram
plan for the curriculum restructuring -I'll get it posted in this
conference by someone who can write base notes!
Comments welcome as replies to whatever note it ends up being...
Cheers,
Andy
|
| 19.11 | Note 49 | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Fri Mar 01 1991 22:11 | 8 |
|
See note 49 for the annoucnement and discussion
Plans posted in ES$REVIEW:[VMS_CURRICULUM]VMS_CUR_PLAN.TXT and .PS
Mel
|