Conference yukon::christian

 1:17 - For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with
 the wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

** At various times and in other places, some have suggested that the gospel
   includes physical water baptism.  Yet here Paul clearly separates physical
   water baptism (for which he was not sent) from preaching the gospel.

   The context for this separation was schisms regarding in whom (or in whose
   name) believers were baptized.  Paul let go of baptism, not because it was
   unimportant, but because it was not critical, and, in fact, had become
   divisive.

   Paul brought focus back to the gospel, i.e., the person and work of Jesus
   Christ.  Furthermore, Paul did not preach the gospel with words meant to
   bring understanding beyond the revelation of God in Jesus Christ.  If more
   really remained to be said and done, then Christ's death would be for
   nothing.  In other words, Paul indicates that the cross of Christ is
   nothing if not complete.

   18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
 but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

** That man can do nothing to be saved is nonsense.  That there is nothing
   more to be said or done besides Christ is nonsense.

   The power of God is salvation in the apparent foolishness of "merely"
   believing that Christ has done all there is to do.

   19 - For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring
 to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
   20 - Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of
 this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

** Who would argue with God?  Who works in the children of disobedience?  To
   whom must God prove Himself?

   21 - For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it
 pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

** Man by his own device could not figure God out.  He could see evidence of
   God, yet not recognize Him.  God is pleased to save those who believe, and
   seek to know nothing more than, what He said.

   22 - For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

** The Jews need to see, and the Greeks need to know, beyond what God has
   revealed.  Both reject the nonsense in hearing that nothing besides Christ
   needs to be seen or known.

   23 - But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto
 the Greeks foolishness;

** The Jews need to see their Messiah alive in order to physically deliver them
   from evil oppression and establish the kingdom of righteousness.  The
   Messiah they need to see could not die.

   The Greeks see no significance for them in a dead Jewish carpenter crucified
   as a criminal.

   Of what possible import could the death of a blasphemous bastard son of a
   carpenter from Nazareth be?

   24 - But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power
 of God, and the wisdom of God.
   25 - Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of
 God is stronger than men.
   26 - For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the
 flesh, not many mighty, not many noble:
   27 - But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the
 wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things
 which are mighty;
   28 - And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God
 chosen, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
   29 - That no flesh should glory in His presence.
   30 - But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom,
 and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
   31 - That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the
 Lord.

** "For though He was crucified through weakness, yet He liveth by the power of
   God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of
   God toward you. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your
   own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you,
   except ye be reprobates?" (2Co.13:4&5)

   "For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For
   in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision;
   but faith which worketh by love." (Ga.5:5&6)

   "<The Father> hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath trans-
   lated us into the kingdom of His dear Son: In whom we have redemption
   through His blood, the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the
   invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things
   created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
   whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things
   were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him
   all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the
   beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all He might have the
   preeminence. For it pleased that in Him should all the fulness dwell; And,
   having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all
   things unto Himself; by Him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven.

   "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in mind by wicked works,
   yet now hath He reconciled In the body of His flesh through death, to
   present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight: If ye
   continue in the faith grounded and settled, and not moved away from the
   hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, which was preached to every
   creature which is under heaven." (Co.1:13-23)

 2:1 - And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech
 or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
   2 - For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and
 Him crucified.

** The Apostle Paul determined to knowing nothing except the person and work
   of Jesus Christ.

   Jesus said, "Verily, verily, The servant is not greater than his lord;
   neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." (Jn.13:16)

   We in Him, and He in us, nothing more and nothing less!

    Hi Wayne,
    
    Ok I admit it.  I can't figure out how this relates to the OT
    sacrifices.  I can see how it relates to my wanting to *know* the answer
    to that question.   :-)
    
    
    Jill      

    A few years ago we did a study on portraits of Messiah in the OT.  Here
    are some of my margin notes from Leviticus 1-2.
    
    - We can only approach God by sacrifice (Genesis 4).
    - Blood of animals only covered sin temporarily.
    - Animals had to be free from defects, blemish, and sickness.  God only
      gets the best!
    - God appears to have picked these animals for sacrifice for a specific
      purpose.
    
    Bull/Ox
    -------
    Typical of endurance, patience, strength, and servanthood.  Just like
    Jesus Christ (Hebrews 12:12, Mark 10:45).
    
    Sheep
    -----
    Typical of innocence, unresisting, defenseless (Isaiah 53:7, Matthew
    26:53, 1 Peter 2:21).
    
    Goat
    ----
    Typical of stubborness, selfishness, likes to kick.  Jesus Christ
    wasn't a sinner, but was numbered among them to provide our ransom
    (Isaiah 53:12, Galatians 3:13, 2 Corinthians 5:21).
    
    Doves
    -----
    Known for mournful sounds, innocence, gentleness, purity, undefiled
    (Isaiah 38:14).  Also symbol of peace and the Holy Spirit.
    
    Grain
    -----
    A product with the cooperation of both heaven and earth.  Jesus Christ
    is this combination!  Grain grows, dies, and seed is buried to rise
    again.  Flour, like Christ, is made perfect through suffering.  Grain
    then baked in fire and broken.  The cross was hell for Him and He was
    broken for us.  Unleavened means without sin.  Oil is the Holy Spirit
    mixed in the bread just as Jesus Christ was anointed by the Holy
    Spirit.  The frankincense used at the altar is perfect righteousness
    which is pleasing to God - God said He was pleased with Jesus Christ.

    Hi Wayne,
    
    This should be a good note. I will most likely have to take a few weeks
    to put posts in here though.
    
    A thought is kind-of forming in my mind. This may be off base and I
    have not exactly tried to show it scripturally, although I think it is
    scripturally based. Here goes;
    
    Wayne you said something in my suicide note which has stuck. You said
    that death is against our nature. Our souls and bodies don't want to be
    separated. This makes sense to me, God designed us to live forever.
    Death is the biggest fear I would think most people have, at least for
    those that don't know Christ. Death is one of the biggest steps in our
    live, if that makes any sense. :)
    
    Now Jesus conquered death. He died on the cross and rose again. He is
    the first of many, he goes before us. He took our sin to the cross, died
    and rose again! So he has squarely faced that which we may fear so much
    and shown us that we can live also! We know that Jesus was sacrificed.
    His sacrifice saves us. Death no longer has it's sting for us.
    
    The sacrifical system of the OT is a foreshadowing of Jesus' sacrifice.
    Sacrifice involves death, that thing we fear so much as humans. All of
    the OT sacrifices where a pointer to Jesus' perfect sacrifice. The OT
    sacrifices must have reminded the people of death, because that's what
    was going on, but they where imperfect, they did not conquer death.
    
    So along comes Jesus and gives himself up for sacrifice and he dies
    just like the sacrificed animals, but BUT, he rises from the dead!
    This answers my question why. God, Jesus conquers death through death.
    
    Ok to summarize;
    
    	1. Humans die due to Adams fall, and we fear death.
    	2. The OT sacrifices involve death.
    	3. The OT sacrifices all point to Jesus' sacrifice.
    	4. Jesus conquers death through death.
    
    Hhhhmmm, I realize that this is most likely incomplete theology and
    that other facets, like faith are important. I have left them out to be
    brief and show my point. Which is to express how a question was answered
    for me.
    
    Peter
    
    P.S. More to come later.

Hi, Jill.
    
|   Ok I admit it.  I can't figure out how this relates to the OT
|   sacrifices.  I can see how it relates to my wanting to *know* the answer
|   to that question.   :-)

** Sorry, Jill.  My words often fail to convey my thinking process.

   Paul establishes both the necessity and sufficiency of Christ.  A study of
   the OT sacrifices, particularly the sin offerings, will reveal the "problem"
   of sin in terms of pervasiveness and severity versus the God-ordained
   provision for remission and cleansing.

   I believe careful examination reveals Christ, once for all, to meet the
   law's demands by His sacrifice for the remission of sins and by His distri-
   bution for cleansing from sin.

   The Father declares us righteous by grace through faith in the finished
   work of Jesus Christ alone.  We who believe God's Word have received His
   quickening Spirit unto eternal life.  We in Him and He in us, nothing more
   and nothing less.

   Again, the Holy Spirit clearly spoke to me in this passage that to seek
   something in myself or others besides Christ is to not believe what the
   Father says.

I hope you've perceived enough of my heart by now to know that my desire in
sharing is to elicit from others your exact response of "wanting to *know* the
answer to that question!" :-)

May He who is our all in all give you peace.  I very much appreciate the desire
of your heart to see Christ whom to know is life eternal.

/Wayne

    Here is some Jewish commentary on sacrifice. I offer it as something
    interesting to consider, *not* as something I strongly support.
 
    Leslie

Note:           I think Rambam refers to Maimonides (sp?).
Excerpted From:

                             Judaic Seminar
                           Volume 4 Number 32


I.   Parashat Tazria: Who Is In and Who Is Out [Uziel Weingarten]

II.  Sara'at [Refael Tawil]


[Additional material from Judaic Seminar on Parashat Tazria can
be found in Vol. 2 No. 36. This can be accessed through the WWW
by pointing your browser to the address found at the end of this
issue. To retrieve 2:36 via e-mail send the following message:
get listproc/j-seminar/volume2 v2n36  To: [email protected] ]
     
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[stuff deleted]

Let us begin by reviewing the Rambam's teleology of animal
sacrifices. One of the principles guiding the Torah, according to
the Rambam, is that "it is impossible for people to go from one
extreme to another all at once" (Guide to the Perplexed 3:32).
Since sacrifices were the standard form of worship at that time
and place, and "it is impossible, in terms of human nature, for
people to leave all that they are accustomed to all at once"
(ibid.), the Torah chose not to abolish sacrifices. Instead, it
maintained them, with the necessary stipulation that they be
directed to God, rather than to idols. The result was that a
deeply entrenched pagan practice was converted to Divine worship
without "the sense of alienation that would have been caused by
abolition of forms of worship that they were used to" (ibid.).

Also, since animal sacrifices were not necessary in terms of the
essential goals of the Torah, and were only given as a concession
to the needs of the people, God limited them in various ways.
Thus, sacrifices were subject to a host of limitations: they were
permitted only in one place, and by members of a specific tribe,
and only in a specified manner, "in order to minimize this form
of worship" (ibid.). These limitations, not found in other forms
of worship such as prayer or affixing a mezuzah, are indicative
of sacrifices being necessary rather than desirable in principle.

[more stuff deleted]

    re .5
    
    Hi Wayne,
    
       the "problem" of sin in terms of pervasiveness and severity versus the
       God-ordained provision for remission and cleansing.
    
    Try explaining this again please...its been a long week...
    
    
    Jill
    

    Hi, Jill.

    Simply put, sin is serious, beyond human device to remove or separate.
    God ordained very intricate ritualism to deal with different aspects
    and types of sin, but "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and
    of goats should take away sins." (He.10:4)
    
    Samuel said to Saul, "Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, to
    hearken than the fat of rams." (1Sa.15:22b)
    
    The rituals themselves did not remove sin, else "they would have ceased
    to be offered, because the worshippers once purged should have had no
    more conscience of sins." (He.10:2)  Ultimately we must trust God to take
    away our sin according to His Word.  "He hath not dealt with us after our
    sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is
    high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward them that fear Him. As
    far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgres-
    sions from us. Like a father pitieth children, the Lord pitieth them that
    fear Him." (Ps.103:10-13)
    
    The issue, then, is will we hear the gospel with faith unto obedience?
    How did God say our sin is removed?  Both the letter and spirit of the
    law must be satisfied/fulfilled.
    
    Okay, Jill, time for your own homework.  Don't seek my understanding.
    Tell me what the Word and the Spirit bind to your heart. :-)
    
    /Wayne

    That'll work, Peter! :-)
    
    I very much look forward to hearing what the Word and the Spirit bind
    to your heart as Truth.  I've seen the Spirit "at sundry times and in
    divers manners" seal the Word to believers such that they "set their
    face like a flint, and know that they will not be ashamed" (Is.50:7),
    "stand in awe, and sin not: commune with their own heart upon their bed,
    and be still...Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put their trust
    in the Lord" (Ps.4:4&5), and confess, "As for me, I will behold thy face
    in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness."
    (Ps.17:15)
    
    /Wayne

From the Shabbat Shalom column on page 31 of The Jerusalem Post International
Edition, No. 1901, Week Ending April 12, 1997 � Nissan 5, 5757 � 5 Thu
Al-Hijjah, 1417.

"And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: `When a man [adam] shall have
in the skin of his flesh a swelling, a scab, or bright spot, and it be...the
plague of leprosy [tzara'at].'" (Le.13:1-2)

Rabbi Shlomo Riskin asks, "In order for an individual to be deemed righteous,
is it necessary that he never commit a serious sin?"  He goes on to address
the difficult expression found in the above portion of the Torah that sheds
light on the true definition of righteousness.

The phrase "nega tzara'at" describes a skin eruption which can bring isolation
and/or a diagnosis of ritual impurity.  Riskin points out that the Torah
addresses the victim of "tzara'at" with the appellation "adam."  Among the four
expressions for human being--enosh, gever, ish and adam--the most laudatory is
"adam," hardly the way to reference a seriously diseased person.

Riskin credits Rabbi Nisan Alpert, of Yeshiva University, with helping him
understand the usage as follows.

We generally attribute greatness to a person if we believe he or she is free of
character defects; but every rational being knows that there is no person who
has not sinned!  Greatness depends on recognizing one's weaknesses and striving
to improve.  From this vantage point, the worst sin is complacency; and the most
significant "mitzva" is repentance.

A skin malady can be treated.  Calling the sufferer "adam" is how the Torah lets
us know that he has nonetheless recognized an inner fault, and seeks help.

Support for this approach can be found two verses later: "The priest shall
confine [shut up] the plague seven days..." (Le.13:4).  Some take this to mean
that the afflicted individual must be isolated, but others point out that the
phrase "v'hisgir et ha-nega" refers to the plague and not to the person.

Had the Torah wanted to isolate the person, the grammatical form should have
been "nagu'a," and not "nega," as the text reads.  Hence the understanding
that the scab was isolated from the rest of the body with a special dye to
mark the exact spot to allow the priest at the next examination to determine
whether the scab had spread, expansion being the grounds for declaring
impurity.

Riskin asks how do we understand the fact that the biblical usage is "plague
(nega)" rather than "the one who was afflicted (negu'a)?"  If the Torah meant
the person to be confined, why doesn't it say so explicitly?

The understanding is that a person should not be defined by his sins.  He may
have a "nega (plague)," but we dare not describe him only as "negu'a (the one
afflicted)."  Obviously you can't isolate the "nega" without taking along the
person afflicted, but the wording implies that we have to make a distinction
between the plague and the one who is plagued.

Riskin sees this as clarifying the difference between a religious system that
burdens mankind with original sin as opposed to one that recognizes the
possibility (and even necessity) of sin while never forgetting the potential
for redemption.

** Editorial comment:  Christianity might be seen as "burdening mankind with
   original sin" by those unable to see Jesus as the Christ of God!  However,
   the inability to see Christ as both Lamb slain and Deliverer in no way
   diminishes the truth revealed in the Torah.

The lives of King David and King Saul illustrate these two approaches.  Both
sinned, and yet their records are totally different.  Saul committed almost
understandable sins of impatience and misdirected compassion, and yet the
kingship was torn away from him.  In contrast, David seemingly committed
adultery with Bathsheva and had her husband killed in battle, but is neverthe-
less regarded as a Messianic prototype.

The difference lies in the reaction of each to the one who chastised him.
Saul's sins seem mild in comparison to David's.  When Samuel confronted Saul,
Saul rationalized and justified (1Sa.13 and 15).  Compare this to David's heart-
wrenching repentance.  When Nathan confronted David, David said, "I have sinned
before the Lord." (2Sa.12:5-13)

Riskin goes on to point out that in all Masoretic versions of the Bible, there
follows an empty space; at the moment of David's confession, interprets Vilna
Gaon, King David wordlessly sobbed in repentance.

Rabbi Riskin concludes:  "To err is human; to seek repentance is to be forgiven
by the Divine."

===============================================================================

Editorial addendum:

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in
us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us sins, and to
cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make
Him a liar, and His Word is not in us. <These things are written> unto us, that
we sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus
Christ the righteous: And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for
our's only, but also for the whole world.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He that
saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth
is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God
perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him
ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." (1Jn.1:8-2:6)

"And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son
Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment. And he that
keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know
that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us." (1Jn.3:23&24)

    
    This may be the time to add that the sacrifices of the OT, though they
    themselves did not satisfy the judgement of sin, they were the *means* by
    which the OT Church demonstrated their faith in God, in Christ.
    
    jeff