Conference yukon::christian

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Note 960.1                       The Final Quest                          1 of 9
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    (Taken from "The Morning Star," Vol. 5, Nos 2-4, by Rick Joyner)
    
    THE MORNING STAR Reprint policy: Photocopies of any part of the
    contents of this publication may be made freely. However, to re-
    typeset information, permission must be requested in writing from
    MorningStar Publication, 16000 Lancaster Hwy, Charlotte, NC 28277-
    2061.
    
    Reprinted in the Digital Equipment Christian Notes file by permission.
    
    This is a panoramic dream and vision I received in early 1995.
    This is obviously allegorical, as are most dreams and visions. I
    have tried to be faithful to what I actually saw and experienced.
    
    The Evil Army
    
    I saw a demonic army so large that it stretched as far as I could
    see. It was separated into divisions, with each carrying a
    different banner. The foremost and most powerful divisions were
    Pride, Self-righteousness, Respectability, Selfish Ambition, and
    Unrighteous Judgment, but the largest of all was Jealousy. The
    leader of this vast army was the Accuser of the Brethren himself.
    I knew that there were many more evil divisions beyond my scope of
    vision, but these were the vanguard of this terrible horde from
    hell that was now being released against the church.
    
    The weapons carried by this horde had names on them: the swords
    were named Intimidation; the spears were named Treachery; and
    their arrows were named Accusations, Gossip, Slander and
    Faultfinding. Scouts and smaller companies of demons with such
    names as Rejection, Bitterness, Impatience, Unforgiveness and Lust
    were sent in advance of this army to prepare for the main attack.
    I knew in my heart that the church had never faced anything like
    this before.
    
    The main assignment of this army was to cause division. It was
    sent to attack every level of relationship-churches with each
    other, congregations with their pastors, husbands and wives,
    children and parents, and even children with each other. The
    scouts were sent to locate the openings in churches, families or
    individuals that rejection, bitterness, lust, etc., could exploit
    and make a larger breech for the divisions that were coming.
    
    The most shocking part of this vision was that this horde was not
    riding on horses, but on Christians! Most of them were well-
    dressed, respectable, and had the appearance of being refined and
    educated. These were Christians who had opened themselves to the
    powers of darkness to such a degree that the enemy could use them
    and they would think that they were being used by God. The Accuser
    knows that a house divided cannot stand, and this army represented
    his ultimate attempt to bring such complete division to the church
    that she would completely fall from grace.
    
    The Prisoners
    
    Trailing behind these first divisions were a vast multitude of
    other Christians who were prisoners of this army. They were all
    wounded, and were guarded by little demons of Fear.  There seemed
    to be more prisoners than there were demons in the army.
    Surprisingly, these prisoners still had their swords and shields,
    but they did not use them. It was shocking to see that so many
    could be kept captive by so few of these little demons of Fear.
    These could have easily been destroyed or driven off if the
    prisoners had just used their weapons.
    
    Above the prisoners the sky was black with vultures named
    Depression. These would land on the shoulders of a prisoner and
    vomit on him. The vomit was Condemnation. When the vomit hit a
    prisoner he would stand up and march a little straighter for a
    while, and then slump over, even weaker than before. Again, I
    wondered why the prisoners did not simply kill these vultures with
    their swords, which they could have easily done.
    
    Occasionally a weak prisoner would stumble and fall. As soon as he
    or she hit the ground, the other prisoners would begin stabbing
    them with their swords, scorning them as they did so. They would
    then call for the vultures to begin devouring the fallen one even
    before they were dead.
    
    As I watched, I realized that these prisoners thought that the
    vomit of condemnation was truth from God. Then I understood that
    these prisoners actually thought they were marching in the army of
    God! This is why they did not kill the little demons of fear, or
    the vultures-they thought these were messengers from God! The
    darkness from the cloud of vultures made it so hard for these
    prisoners to see that they naively accepted everything that
    happened to them as being from the Lord.
    
    The only food provided for these prisoners was the vomit from the
    vultures. Those who refused to eat it simple weakened until they
    fell. Those who did eat it were strengthened, but with the
    strength of the evil one. They would then begin to vomit on the
    others. When one began to do this a demon that was waiting for a
    ride would be given this one and he or she would be promoted to
    the front divisions.
    
    Even worse than the vomit from the vultures was a repulsive slime
    that these demons were urinating and defecating upon the
    Christians they rode.  This slime was the pride, selfish ambition,
    etc., that was the nature of the division they were a part of.
    However, this slime made the Christians feel so much better than
    the condemnation that they easily believed that the demons were
    messengers of God, and they actually thought this slime was the
    anointing of the Holy Spirit.
    
    Then the voice of the Lord came to me saying, "This is the
    beginning of the enemy's last day army. This is Satan's ultimate
    deception, and his ultimate power of destruction is released when
    he uses Christians to attack other Christians. Throughout the ages
    he has used this army, but never has he been able to capture so
    many to be used for his evil purposes. Do not fear. I have an army
    too. You must now stand and fight, because there is no longer any
    place to hide from this war. You must fight for My Kingdom, for
    truth, and for those who have been deceived."
    
    I had been so repulsed and outraged by the evil army that I had
    wanted to die rather than live in such a world. However, this word
    from the Lord was so encouraging that I immediately began yelling
    to the Christian prisoners that they were being deceived, thinking
    that they would listen to me. When I did this, it seemed that the
    whole army turned to look at me, but I kept yelling. I thought
    that the Christians were going to wake up and realize what was
    happening to them, but instead many of them started reaching for
    their arrows to shoot at me. The others just hesitated as if they
    did not know what to make of me. I knew then that I had done this
    prematurely, and that it had been a very foolish mistake.
    
    The Battle Begins
    
    Then I turned and saw the army of the Lord standing behind me.
    There were thousands of soldiers, but we were still greatly
    outnumbered. Only a small number were fully dressed in their armor
    so that most were only partially protected. A large number were
    already wounded. Most of those who had all of their armor still
    had very small shields which I knew would not protect them from
    the onslaught that was coming. The majority of these soldiers were
    women and children.
    
    Behind this army there was a trailing mob similar to the prisoners
    who followed the evil army, but very different in nature. These
    seemed to be very happy people, and were playing games, singing
    songs, feasting and roaming about from one little camp to the
    next. It reminded me of the atmosphere at Woodstock. I tried to
    raise my voice above the clamor to warn them that it was not the
    time for this, that the battle was about to begin, but only a few
    could even hear my voice. Those who did gave me the "peace sign"
    and said they did not believe in war, and that the Lord would not
    let anything bad happen to them. I tried to explain that the Lord
    had given us armor for a reason, but they just retorted that they
    had come to a place of peace and joy where nothing would happen to
    them. I began praying earnestly for the Lord to increase the faith
    (shields) of those with the armor, to help us protect those who
    were not ready for the battle.
    
    A messenger came up to me, gave me a trumpet and told me to blow
    it quickly. I did, and those who had on at least some of their
    armor immediately responded, snapping to attention. More armor was
    brought to them, which they put on quickly. I noticed that those
    who had wounds did not put armor over their wounds, but before I
    could say anything about this enemy arrows began raining down on
    us. Everyone who did not have on all of his or her armor was
    wounded. Those who had not covered their wounds were struck again
    in the same place.
    
    Those who were hit by arrows of slander immediately began to
    slander those who were not wounded. Those who were hit with gossip
    began to gossip, and soon a major division had been created within
    our camp. Then vultures swooped down to pick up the wounded to
    deliver them into the camp of prisoners. The wounded still had
    swords and could have smitten the vultures easily, but they
    didn't. They were actually carried off willingly because they were
    so angry at the rest of us.
    
    The scene among those in the camp behind our army was even worse.
    There seemed to be total chaos. Thousands lay on the ground
    wounded and groaning. Many of those who were not wounded just sat
    in a stupor of unbelief. The wounded and those who sat in unbelief
    were being quickly carried away by the vultures. Some were trying
    to help the wounded, and keep the vultures off of them, but the
    wounded were so angry they would threaten and drive away those who
    were trying to help them.
    
    Many who were not wounded were simply running as fast as they
    could from the scene of battle. This first encounter with the
    enemy was so devastating that I was tempted to join them in their
    flight. Then, very quickly, some of these began reappearing with
    full suits of armor on, and large shields. The mirth of the party
    had changed into an awesome resolve. They began to take the places
    of those who had fallen, and even began forming new ranks to
    protect the rear and flanks. These brought great courage, and
    everyone resolved to stand and fight until death. Immediately
    three great angels named Faith, Hope, and Love came and stood
    behind us, and everyone's shield began to grow.
    
                               
                                  (Continued)
    

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    The High Way
    
    We had swords named the Word of God, and arrows that were named
    for biblical truths. We wanted to shoot back, but did not know how
    to without hitting the Christians that were ridden by the demons.
    Then it occurred to us that if these Christians were hit with the
    truth they would wake up and fight off their oppressors. I fired
    off a few arrows. Almost all of them hit Christians. However, when
    the arrow of truth went into them, they did not wake up, or fall
    down wounded-they became enraged, and the demon riding on them
    grew much larger. This shocked everyone, and we began to feel that
    this may be an impossible battle to win, but with Faith, Hope and
    Love we were very confident that we could at least hold our own
    ground. Another angel named Wisdom then appeared and directed us
    to fight from the mountain behind us.
    
    On the mountain there were ledges at different levels for as high
    as you could see. At each higher level the ledges became narrower,
    and harder to stand on. Each level was named after a biblical
    truth. The lower levels  were named after foundational truths such
    as "Salvation," "Sanctification," "Prayer," "Faith," etc., and the
    higher levels were named after more advanced biblical truths. The
    higher we climbed, the larger both our shields and our swords
    grew, and fewer of the enemy arrows could reach that position.
    
    A Tragic Mistake
    
    Some who had stayed on the lower levels began picking up the enemy
    arrows and shooting them back. This was a tragic mistake. The
    demons easily dodged the arrows and let them hit the Christians.
    When a Christian was hit by one of the arrows of Accusation or
    Slander, a demon of Bitterness or Rage would fly in and perch on
    that arrow. He would then begin to urinate and defecate his poison
    upon that Christian. When a Christian had two or three of these
    demons added to the Pride or Self righteousness he already had, he
    began to change into the contorted image of the demons themselves.
    
    We could see this happening from the higher levels, but those on
    the lower levels who were using the enemy's arrows could not see
    it. Half of us decided to keep climbing, while the other half
    descended back to the lower levels to explain to those still on
    them what was happening. Everyone was then warned to keep climbing
    and not stop, except for a few who stationed themselves on each
    level to keep the other soldiers moving higher.
    
    Safety
    
    When we reached the level called "The Unity of the Brethren," none
    of the enemy's arrows could reach us. Many in our camp decided
    that was as far as they needed to climb. I understood this because
    with each new level the footing was more precarious. However, I
    also felt much stronger and more skillful with my weapons the
    higher I went, so I continued climbing.
    
    Soon my skills were good enough to shoot and hit the demons
    without hitting the Christians. I felt  that if I kept going
    higher I could shoot far enough to hit the leaders of the evil
    horde who stayed behind their army. I was sorry that so many had
    stopped on the lower levels, where they were safe but could not
    hit the enemy. Even so, the strength and character that grew in
    those who kept climbing made them great champions, each of which I
    knew would destroy many of the enemy.
    
    At each level there were arrows of Truth scattered about which I
    knew were left from those who had fallen from that position. All
    of the arrows were named after the Truth of that level. Some were
    reluctant to pick up these arrows, but I knew we needed all that
    we could to destroy the great horde below. I picked one up, shot
    it, and so easily hit a demon that the others started picking them
    up and shooting them. We began to decimate several of the enemy
    divisions. Because of this, the entire evil army focused its
    attention on us. For a time it seemed the more we achieved the
    more we were opposed. Though our task seemed endless, it had
    become exhilarating.
    
    The Word Is Our Anchor
    
    Our swords grew as we reached each level. I almost left mine
    behind because I did not seem to need it at the higher levels. I
    finally decided that it had been given to me for purpose, so I had
    better keep it. I drove it into the ground and tied myself to it
    while I shot at the enemy. The voice of the Lord then came to me,
    saying: "You have used the wisdom that will enable you to keep
    climbing. Many have fallen because they did not use their sword
    properly to anchor themselves."  No one else seemed to hear this
    voice, but many saw what I had done and did the same thing.
    
    I wondered why the Lord had not spoken to me before I had made
    this decision. I then had a sense of knowing that He had already
    spoken this to me somehow. Then I perceived that my whole life had
    been training for this hour. I was prepared to the degree that I
    had listened to the Lord and obeyed Him throughout my life. I also
    knew that for some reason the wisdom and understanding I now had
    could not be added to or taken away from while in this battle. I
    became profoundly thankful for every trial I had experienced in my
    life, and sorry for not appreciating them more at the time.
    
    Soon we were hitting the demons with almost perfect accuracy. Rage
    rose from the enemy army like fire and brimstone. I knew that the
    Christians trapped in that army were now feeling the brunt of that
    rage. Unable to hit us they were now shooting at each other.  With
    his arrows now ineffective against us, the enemy sent the vultures
    to attack. Those who had not used their swords as anchors were
    able to strike down many of the vultures, but they too were being
    knocked from the ledges where they were standing. Some of these
    landed on a lower level, but some fell all the way to the bottom
    and were picked up and carried off by the vultures.
    
    A New Weapon
    
    The arrows of Truth would rarely penetrate the vultures, but they
    hurt them enough to drive them back. Every time they were driven
    back some of us would climb to the next level. When we reached the
    level called "Galations Two Twenty," we were above the altitude
    that the vultures could fly. At this level the sky above almost
    blinded us with its brightness and beauty. I felt peace like I had
    never felt it before.
    
    Previously much of my fighting spirit had really been motivated
    out of as much hatred and disgust for the enemy as it had been for
    the sake of the kingdom, truth, and love for the prisoners. But it
    was on this level that I caught up to Faith, Hope, and Love, which
    before I had only been following at a distance. On this level I
    was almost overpowered by their glory. When I caught up to them
    they turned to me, and began repairing and shining my armor. Soon
    it was completely transformed and exuded the glory that was in
    them. When they touched my sword, great bolts of brilliant
    lightning began flashing from it. Love then said, "Those who reach
    this level are entrusted with the powers of the age to come, but I
    must teach you how to use them."
    
    The "Galatians Two Twenty" level was so wide that there was no
    longer any danger of falling. There were also unlimited arrows
    with the name Hope written on them. We shot some of them down at
    the vultures, and these arrows killed them easily. About half who
    had reached this level kept shooting while the others began
    carrying these arrows down to those still on the lower levels.
    
    The vultures kept coming in waves upon the levels below, but with
    each one there would be fewer than before. From "Galatians Two
    Twenty" we could hit any enemy in the army except the leaders
    themselves, who were still out of range. We decided not to use the
    arrows of Truth until we had destroyed all of the vultures,
    because the cloud of depression they created made the truth less
    effective. This took a very long time, but we never got tired.
    
    Faith, Hope and Love, who had grown like our weapons with each
    level, were now so large that I knew people far beyond the battle
    area could see them. Their glory even radiated into the camp of
    prisoners who were still under a great cloud of vultures. The
    exhilaration continued to grow in all of us. I felt that being in
    this army, in this battle, had to be one of the greatest
    adventures of all time.
    
    After destroying most of the vultures that had been attacking our
    mountain, we began picking off the vultures that had covered the
    prisoners. As the cloud of darkness began dissipating and the sun
    began to shine down on them, they began to wake up as if they had
    been in a deep sleep. They were immediately repulsed by their
    condition, especially by the vomit that still covered them, and
    began cleaning themselves up. As they beheld Faith, Hope and Love,
    they saw the mountain we were on and began running for it. The
    evil horde rained arrows of Accusation and Slander at them, but
    they did not stop. By the time they got to the mountain many had a
    dozen or more arrows stuck in them, but seemed not to even notice.
    As soon as they began to scale the mountain their wounds began to
    heal. With the cloud of depression being dispelled it seemed as if
    everything was getting much easier.
    
    The Trap
    
    The former prisoners had great joy in their salvation. They seemed
    so overwhelmed with appreciation for each level as they began to
    scale the mountain that it gave us a greater appreciation for
    those truths. Soon a fierce resolve to fight the enemy also arose
    in the former prisoners. They put on the armor provided and begged
    to be allowed to go back and attack the enemy. We thought about
    it, but then decided we should all stay on the mountain to fight.
    Again the voice of the Lord spoke, saying: "A second time you have
    chosen wisdom. You cannot win if you try to fight the enemy on his
    own ground, but must remain on My Holy mountain."
    
    I was stunned that we had made another decision of such importance
    by just thinking and discussing it briefly. I then resolved to do
    my best to not make another decision of any consequence without
    prayer. Wisdom then stepped up to me quickly, took both of my
    shoulders firmly and looked me intensely in the eyes, saying: "You
    MUST do this!"  I then noticed that, even though I had been on the
    broad plateau of "Galations Two Twenty," I had drifted to the very
    edge without even knowing it, and could have easily fallen. I
    looked again into the eyes of Wisdom, and he said with the utmost
    seriousness, "Take heed when you think you stand, lest you fall.
    In this life you can fall from any level."
    
    The Serpents
    
    For a long time we continued killing the vultures and picking off
    the demons that were riding the Christians. We found that the
    arrows of different Truths would have more of an impact on
    different demons. We knew that it was going to be a long battle,
    but we were not taking any more casualties now, and we had already
    passed the level of "Patience." Even so, after these Christians
    had the demons shot off them, few would come to the mountain. Many
    had taken on the nature of the demons, and continued in their
    delusion without them. As the darkness of the demons dissipated we
    could see the ground moving around the feet of these Christians.
    Then I saw that their legs were bound by serpents called Shame.
    
    We shot arrows of truth at the serpents, but they had little
    effect. We then tried the arrows of Hope, but without result. From
    "Galatians Two Twenty" it was very easy to go higher, so we
    started up to the higher levels. Soon we happened upon a garden
    that was the most beautiful place I had ever seen. Over the
    entrance to this garden was written, "The Father's Unconditional
    Love." It was the most glorious and inviting doorway I had ever
    seen, so we were compelled to enter. As soon as we did, we saw the
    Tree of Life in the middle of this garden. It was still guarded by
    angels of awesome strength. They looked as if they had been
    expecting us, so we had the courage to pass them and walk up to
    the tree. One of them said, "Those who make it to this level, who
    know the Father's love, can eat."
    
    I did not realize how hungry I was. When I tasted the fruit, it
    was better than anything I had ever tasted, but was also somehow
    familiar. It brought memories of sunshine, rain, beautiful fields,
    the sun setting over the ocean, but even more than that, of the
    people I loved. With every bite I loved everything and everyone
    more. Then my enemies started to come to mind, and I loved them,
    too. The feeling was soon greater than anything I had ever
    experienced, even the peace on "Galatians Two Twenty." Then I
    heard the voice of the Lord, and He said, "This is now your daily
    bread. It shall never be withheld from you. You may eat as much
    and as often as you like. There is no end of My love."
    
    I looked up into the tree to see where the voice had come from,
    and saw that it was filled with pure white eagles. They had the
    most beautiful, penetrating eyes I have ever seen. They were
    looking at me as if waiting for instructions. One of the angels
    said, "They will do your bidding. These eagles eat snakes." I
    said, "Go! Devour the shame that has bound our brothers."  They
    opened their wings and a great wind came that lifted them into the
    air. These eagles filled the sky with a blinding glory. Even as
    high as we were, I could hear the sounds of terror from the enemy
    camp at the sight of these eagles coming toward them.
    
    The Lord Jesus Himself then stood in our midst. He touched each
    one, then said, "I must now share with you what I shared with your
    brothers after My acsension-the message of My Kingdom. The enemy's
    most powerful army has now been put to flight, but not destroyed.
    Now it is time for us to march forth with the gospel of My
    kingdom. The eagles have been released and will go with us. We
    will take arrows from every level, but I am your Sword, and I am
    your Captain. It is now time for the Sword of the Lord to be
    unsheathed."
    
    I then turned and saw that the entire army of the Lord was
    standing in that garden. There were men women and children from
    all races and nations, each carrying their banners that moved in
    the wind with perfect unity. I knew that nothing like this had
    been seen in the earth before. I knew that the enemy had many more
    armies, and fortresses throughout the earth, but none could stand
    before this great army. I said almost under my breath, "This must
    be the Day of the Lord." The whole host then answered in an
    awesome thunder, "The Day of the Lord of Hosts has come."
    
    We stood in the Garden of God under the Tree of Life. It seemed
    that the entire army was there, kneeling before the Lord Jesus. He
    had just given us the charge to return to the battle for the sake
    of our brothers who were still bound, and for the world that He
    still loved. It was both a wonderful and a terrible command. It
    was wonderful just because it came from Him. It was terrible
    because it implied that we would have to leave His manifest
    presence, and the Garden that was more beautiful than anything I
    had ever seen before. To leave all of this to go into battle
    seemed incomprehensible.
    
    The Lord continued His exhortation: "I have given you spiritual
    gifts and power, and an increasing understanding of My word and My
    kingdom, but the greatest weapon that you have been given is the
    Father's love. As long as you walk in My Father's love you will
    never fail. The fruit of this tree is the Father's love which is
    manifested in Me. This love which is in Me must be your daily
    bread."
    
    The Lord was not what we might consider to be of a strikingly
    handsome appearance, but was rather ordinary. Even so, the grace
    with which He moved and spoke made Him the most attractive person
    I had ever seen. He was beyond human definition in dignity and
    nobility. No painting that has sought to capture what He looked
    like could ever do it, but somehow most of them do resemble Him. I
    began to think of how He was everything that the Father loves and
    esteems. He truly is full of grace and truth, to the point that it
    seemed that nothing but grace and truth should ever matter.
    
    When I ate the fruit from the Tree of Life, the thought of every
    good thing I had ever known seemed to fill my soul. When Jesus
    spoke it was the same, only magnified. I never wanted to leave
    this place. I remembered how I had once thought it must have been
    boring for those angels who did nothing but worship Him before the
    throne. Now I knew that there was nothing more wonderful or
    exhilarating than simply worshiping Him. That would surely be the
    best part of heaven. It was hard to believe that I had struggled
    so much with boredom during worship services. I knew that it was
    only because I had been almost completely out of touch with
    reality during those times.
    
                                   (Continued)
    

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    Worship in Spirit and Truth
    
    I was almost overwhelmed with the desire to go back and make up
    those times during worship when I had allowed my mind to wander,
    or had occupied myself with other things. The desire to express my
    adoration for Him became almost uncontrollable. I had to praise
    Him! As I opened my mouth I was shocked by the spontaneous worship
    that erupted from the entire army at the same time. I had almost
    forgotten that anyone else was there, but we were all in perfect
    unity. The glorious worship could not be expressed in human
    language.
    
    As we worshiped, a golden glow began to emanate from the Lord,
    then there was silver around the gold. Then colors, the richness
    of which I have never seen with my natural eyes, enveloped us all.
    With this glory I entered a realm of emotion that I had never
    experienced before. Somehow I understood that his glory had been
    there all along, but when we focused on Him the way that we did in
    worship, we simply began to see more of His glory. The more
    intensely we worshiped, the more glory we beheld. If this was
    heaven, it was much, much better than I had ever dreamed.
    
    Finding His Dwelling Place
    
    I have no idea how long this worship lasted. It could have been
    months, There was simply no way to measure time in that kind of
    glory. For a time I closed my eyes because the glory I was seeing
    with my heart was as great as what I was seeing with my physical
    eyes. When I opened my eyes I was surprised to see that the Lord
    was not there any longer, but a troop of angels was standing where
    He had been. One of them stepped us to me and said, "Close your
    eyes again." When I did, I beheld the glory of the Lord again and
    was greatly relieved.
    
    Then the angel explained, "What you see with the eyes of your
    heart is more real than what you see with your physical eyes." I
    had myself made this statement many times, but how little I had
    truly walked in it! The angel continued, "It was for this reason
    that the Lord told His first disciples that it was better for Him
    to go away so that the Holy Spirit could come. The Lord dwells
    within you. You have taught this many times, but now you must live
    it, for you have eaten of the Tree of Life."
    
    The angel then began to lead me back to the gate. I protested that
    I did not want to leave. Looking surprised, the angel took me by
    the shoulders and looked me in the eyes. That is when I recognized
    him as the angel, Wisdom. "You never have to leave this garden.
    This garden is in your heart because the Creator Himself is within
    you. You have desired the best part, to worship and sit in His
    presence forever, and it will never be taken from you."
    
    I acknowledged what Wisdom had said, and then looked past him at
    the fruit on the Tree of Life. I had a compulsion to grab all that
    I could before leaving. Knowing my thoughts, Wisdom gently shook
    me. "No. Even this fruit, gathered in fear, would rot. This fruit
    and this tree are within you because He is in you. You must
    believe."
    
    I closed my eyes and tried to see the Lord again but couldn't.
    When I open my eyes Wisdom was still staring at me. With great
    patience he continued, "You have tasted of the heavenly realm, and
    no one ever wants to go back to the battle once they do. No one
    every wants to leave the manifest presence of the Lord. When the
    apostle Paul came here he struggled for the rest of his life as to
    whether he should stay and labor for the Lord, or return here to
    enter into his inheritance; but his inheritance was magnified the
    longer he stayed. Now that you have the heart of a true worshiper
    you will always want to be here, and you can when you enter into
    true worship. The more focused you are on Him, the more glory you
    will see, regardless of where you are."
    
    Wisdom's words had finally calmed me. Again I closed my eyes just
    to thank the Lord for this wonderful experience, and the life He
    had given me. As I did, I started to see His glory again, and all
    of the emotion of the previous worship experience flooded my soul.
    The Lord's words to me were so loud and clear that I was sure they
    were audible; "I will never leave or forsake you." "Lord, forgive
    my unbelief," I responded. "Please help me to never leave or forsake
    you."
    
    Walking With Wisdom
    
    As I opened my eyes, Wisdom was still gripping my shoulders. "I am
    the primary gift that has been given to you for your work," he
    said, "I will show you the way, and I will keep you on it, but
    only love will keep you faithful. The highest wisdom is to love
    the Lord."
    
    Then Wisdom released me and started to walk toward the gate. I
    followed with ambivalence. I remembered the exhilaration of the
    battle and the climb up the mountain, and it was compelling, but
    there was no comparison to the presence of the Lord and the
    worship I had just experienced. Leaving this would be the greatest
    sacrifice I had ever made. Then I remembered how it was all inside
    of me, amazed that I could even forget that so quickly. I began to
    think about the great battle that was raging within me, between
    what I saw with my physical eyes and what I saw with my heart.
    
    I moved forward so that I was walking beside Wisdom, and asked, "I
    have prayed for 26 years to be caught up into the third heaven as
    Paul had. Is this the third heaven?" "This is part of it," he
    replied, "but there is much more." "Will I be allowed to see more?"
    I asked.  "You will see much more. I am taking you to see more now,"
    he replied. I started thinking of the Book of Revelation. "Was John's
    revelation part of the third heaven?"  I asked.
    
    "Part of John's revelation was from the third heaven, but most of
    it was from the second heaven. The first heaven was before the
    fall of man. The second heaven is the spiritual realm during the
    reign of evil upon the earth. The third heaven is when the love
    and domain of the Father will again prevail over the earth through
    your King." "What was the first heaven like?" I inquired, strangely
    feeling a cold chill as I asked.
    
    "It is wise not to be concerned about that now," my companion
    responded with increased seriousness as my question seemed to jolt
    him. "Wisdom is to seek to know the third heaven just as you have.
    There is much more to know about the third heaven than you can
    know in this life, and it is the third heaven, the kingdom, that
    you much preach in this life. In the ages to come you will be told
    about the first heaven, but it is not profitable for you to know
    at this time."
    
    I resolved to remember the cold chill I had just felt, and Wisdom
    nodded, which I knew to be an affirmation of that thought. "What a
    great companion you are, I had to say as I was just flooded with
    appreciation for this angel. "You really will keep me on the right
    path."  "I will indeed," he replied.
    
    I was sure I felt love coming from this angel, which was unique,
    since I had never felt this from other angels, which showed more
    of a concern out of duty than love. Wisdom responded to my thoughts
    as if I had spoken them out loud. "It is wisdom to love and I could
    not be Wisdom if I did not love you. It is also wisdom to behold
    the kindness and  the severity of God. It is wisdom to love Him and
    fear Him. You are in deception to do otherwise. This is the next
    lesson that you must learn." he said with unmistakable earnest.
    
    "I do know that, and have taught it many times," I responded,
    feeling for the first time that maybe Wisdom did not fully know
    me. "I have been your companion for a very long time, and I know
    your teachings," Wisdom replied. "Now you are about to learn what
    some of your own teachings mean. As you have said many times, 'It
    is not by believing in your mind, but in your heart that results in
    righteousness.'"
    
    I apologized, feeling a bit ashamed at having even questioned
    Wisdom. He graciously accepted my apology. It was then that I
    realized I had been questioning and challenging him most of my
    life, often to my injury.
    
    The Other Half of Love
    
    "There are times to adore the Lord," Wisdom continued, "and there
    are times to honor Him with the greatest fear and respect. Just as
    there is a time to plant, and a time to reap, and it is wisdom to
    know the time for each. True wisdom knows the times and seasons of
    God. I brought you here because it was time to worship the Lord in
    the glory of His love. I am now taking you to another place because
    it is time for you to worship Him in the fear of His judgment.
    Until you know both we can be separated from each other."
    
    "Do you mean that if I had stayed back there in that glorious
    worship I would have lost you?" I asked in disbelief. "Yes. I would
    have always visited with you when I could, but we would have rarely
    crossed paths. It is hard to leave such glory and peace, but that
    is not the whole revelation of the King. He is both the Lion of
    Judah and the Lamb. To the spiritual children He is the Lamb. To
    the maturing He is the Lion. To the fully mature He is both the
    Lion and the Lamb. You have known this in your mind, and I have
    heard you teach it, but now you will know it in your heart, for you
    are about to experience the judgment seat of Christ.
    
    The Return to the Battle
    
    Before leaving the gates to the Garden I asked Wisdom if I could
    just sit for a while to ponder all that I had just experienced.
    "Yes, you should do this," he replied, "But I have a better place
    for you to do it." I followed Wisdom out of the gates and we began
    to descend down the mountain. To my surprise the battle was still
    going on, but not nearly as intensely as it was when we ascended.
    There were still arrows of accusation and slander flying about on
    the lower levels, but most of the enemy horde that was left was
    furiously attacking the great white eagles. The eagles were easily
    prevailing.
    
    We kept descending until we were almost at the bottom. Just above
    the levels of "Salvation" and "Sanctification" was the level
    "Thanksgiving and Praise." I remembered this level very well
    because one of the greatest attacks of the enemy came as I first
    tried to reach it. Once we got here the rest of the climb was much
    easier, and if an arrow penetrated your armor it healed much
    faster.
    
    As soon as the enemy spotted me on this level (the enemy could not
    see Wisdom), a shower of arrows began to rain down on me. I so
    easily knocked them down with my shield that the enemy quit
    shooting. Their arrows were now almost gone and they could not
    afford to waste any more.
    
    The soldiers who were still fighting from this level looked at me
    in astonishment with a deference that made me very uncomfortable.
    It was then that I first noticed that the glory of the Lord was
    emanating from my armor and shield. I told them to climb to the
    top of the mountain without stopping and they, too, would see the
    Lord. As soon as they agreed to go they saw Wisdom. They started
    to fall down to worship Him, but he restrained them, and sent them
    on their way.
    
                                   (Continued)                                                                   
    

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    The Faithful
    
    I was filled with love for these soldiers, many of whom were women
    and children. Their armor was a mess, and they were covered in
    blood, but they had not quit. In fact. they were still cheerful
    and encouraged. I told them that they were deserving of more honor
    than I was, because they had borne the greatest burden of the
    battle, and had held their ground. They seemed not to believe me,
    but appreciated that I would say it. However, I really felt that
    it was true.
    
    Every level on the mountain had to be occupied or the vultures
    that were left would come and foul it with vomit and excrement
    New mail on node COORS from WARPIG::FGATE        (11:15:47)
    occupied by soldiers which I recognized to be from different
    denominations or movements which emphasized the truth of the level
    they were defending. I was embarrassed by the attitude I had
    maintained toward some of these groups. I had considered some of
    them out of touch and backslidden at best, but here they were
    fighting faithfully against a terrible onslaught of the enemy.
    Their defense of these positions had probably enabled me to keep
    climbing as I had.
    
    Some of these levels were situated so that there was a view of a
    good part of the mountain or battlefield, but some were so
    isolated that the soldiers on them could only see their own
    position, and seemed not to even know about the rest of the battle
    raging. They were often so wounded from the slander and
    accusations that they would be resistant when someone came down to
    them from a higher level and encouraged them to climb higher.
    However, when some began to come down from the top reflecting the
    glory of the Lord, they listened with great joy, and soon began to
    climb themselves with courage and resolve. As I beheld all of
    this, Wisdom did not say much, but he seemed very interested in my
    reactions.
    
    Reality Discovered
    
    I watched as many soldiers who had been to the top began
    descending to all of the levels to relieve those who had been
    taking their stand on those truths. As they did, each level began
    to shine with the glory they carried. Soon the whole mountain was
    beginning to shine with a glory that was blinding to the vultures
    and demons that were left. Soon there was so much glory that the
    mountain began to have the same feel as the Garden.
    
    I started thanking and praising the Lord and immediately I was in
    His presence again. It was hard to contain the emotions and glory
    that was flooding my innermost being. The experience became so
    intense that I stopped. Wisdom was standing beside me. Putting his
    hand on my shoulder he said, "You enter His gates with thanksgiving,
    His courts with praise." "But that was so real! I felt like I was
    there again," I exclaimed. "You were there," replied Wisdom. "It
    has not gotten more real, but you have. Just as the Lord told the
    thief on the cross, 'Today' you will be with Me in Paradise,  you
    can enter Paradise at anytime. The Lord, His Paradise, and this
    mountain, are all abiding in you, because He is in you. What were
    but foretastes before are now a reality to you because you have
    climbed the mountain. The reason that you can see me and others
    cannot is not because you have entered the one in which I dwell.
    This is the reality that the prophets knew that gave them great
    boldness even when they stood alone against armies."
    
    The Deadly Trap
    
    I then looked out over the carnage below, and the slowly
    retreating demonic army. Behind me more of the glorious warriors
    were constantly taking their places on the mountain. I knew there
    was now enough to attack and destroy what was left of this enemy
    horde. "Not yet," said Wisdom. "Look over there." I looked in the
    direction in which he was pointing, but had to shield my eyes from
    the glory emanating from my own armor to see anything. Then I
    caught a glimpse of movement in a valley.
    
    I could not make out what I was seeing, because the glory being
    emitted from my armor made it difficult to see into the darkness.
    I asked Wisdom to give me something to cover my armor with so I
    could see it. He then gave me a very plain mantel to put on. "What
    is this?" I inquired, a little insulted by its drabness.
    "Humility," said Wisdom. "You will not be able to see very well
    without it." Reluctantly I put it on and immediately I saw many
    things that I could not see before. I looked toward the valley and
    the movement I had seen. To my astonishment there was an entire
    division of the enemy horde that was waiting to ambush anyone who
    ventured from the mountain.
    
    "What army it that?" I asked, "and how did they escape the battle
    intact?" "That is Pride," explained Wisdom. "That in the hardest
    enemy to see after you have been in the glory. Those who refuse to
    put on this cloak will suffer much at the hands of this most devious
    enemy."
    
    As I looked back at the mountain I saw many of the glorious
    warriors crossing the plain to attack the remnants of the enemy
    horde. None of them were wearing the cloaks of humility and they
    had not seen the enemy that was ready to attack them from their
    rear. I started to run out to stop them, but Wisdom restrained me.
    "You cannot stop this," he said. "Only the soldiers who wear this
    cloak will recognize your authority. Come with me. There is
    something else that you must see before you can help lead in the
    great battle that is to come."
    
    The Foundation of Glory
    
    Wisdom led me down the mountain to the very lowest level, which
    was named "Salvation." "You think that this is the lowest level,"
    declared Wisdom, "but this is the foundation of the whole
    mountain. In any journey, the first step is the most important,
    and it is usually the most difficult. Without 'Salvation' there
    would be no mountain."
    
    I was appalled by the carnage on this level. Every soldier was
    very badly wounded, but none of them were dead. Multitudes were
    barely clinging to the edge. Many seemed ready to fall off at any
    moment, but none did. Angels were everywhere ministering to the
    soldiers with such great joy that I asked, "Why are they so
    happy?" "These angels have beheld the courage that it took for
    these to hold on. They many not have gone any further, but neither
    did they give up. They will soon be healed, and then they will
    behold the glory of the rest of the mountain, and begin to climb.
    These will be great warriors for the battle to come."
    
    "But wouldn't they have been better off to climb the mountain with
    the rest of us?" I protested, seeing their present condition.
    "It would have been better for them, but not for you. By staying
    here they made it easier for you to climb by keeping most of the
    enemy occupied. Very few from the higher levels ever reached out
    to help others come to the mountain, but these did. Even when
    these were barely clinging to the mountain themselves, they would
    reach out to pull others up. In fact, most of the mighty warriors
    were led to the mountain by these faithful ones. These are no less
    heroes than those who made it to the top. They brought great joy
    to heaven by continually leading other to 'Salvation.' It was for
    this reason that all the angels in heaven wanted to come to
    minister to them, but only the most honored were permitted."
    
    Again I felt a terrible shame at my attitude toward these great
    saints. Many of us scorned them as we climbed to the higher
    levels. They had made many mistakes during the battle, but they
    had also displayed more of the Shepherd's heart than the rest of
    us. The Lord would leave the ninety-nine to go after the one who
    was lost. These had stayed in the place where they could still
    reach the lost, and they paid a dear price for it. I, too, wanted
    to help but did not know where to start.
    
    Wisdom then said, "It is right for you to want to help, but you
    will help most by going on to what you have been called to do.
    These will all be healed and will quickly climb the mountain. They
    will join you again in the battle. These are fearless ones who
    will never retreat before the enemy."
    
    The Power of Pride
    
    I was thinking how descending the mountain was teaching me as much
    as climbing it had, when noise from the battlefield drew my
    attention. By now there were thousands of the mighty warriors who
    had crossed the plain to attack the remnant of the enemy horde.
    The enemy was fleeing in all directions, except for the one
    division, Pride. Completely undetected, it had marched right up to
    the rear of the advancing warriors, and was about to release a
    hail of arrows. It was then that I noticed the mighty warriors had
    not armor on their backsides-they were totally exposed and
    vulnerable to what was about to hit them.
    
    Wisdom then remarked, "You have taught that there was no armor for
    the backside, which meant that you were vulnerable if you ran from
    the enemy. However, you never saw how it made you vulnerable if
    you advanced in pride."
    
    I could only nod my acknowledgment. It was too late to do
    anything, and it was unbearable to watch, but Wisdom said that I
    must. To my amazement, when the arrows of pride struck the
    warriors they did not even notice. However, the enemy kept
    shooting. The warriors were bleeding and getting weaker fast but
    would not acknowledge it. Soon they were too weak to hold up their
    shields and swords, and cast them down, declaring that they did
    not need them anymore. Then they started taking off their armor,
    saying it was not needed anymore either.
    
    Then another enemy division appeared and moved up swiftly. It was
    called Strong Delusion. They released a hail of arrows that all
    hit their mark. I then watched as just a few of the demons of
    delusion led off this once great army of glorious warriors. They
    were taken to different prison camps, each named after a different
    doctrine of demons. I was astounded at how this great company of
    the righteous had been so utterly defeated, and they still did not
    even know what had hit them. "How could those who were so strong,
    who have been all the way to the top of the mountain, who have
    seen the Lord as they have, be so vulnerable?" I blurted out.
    
    "Pride is the hardest enemy to see, and it always sneaks up behind
    you," Wisdom lamented. "In some ways, those who have been to the
    greatest heights are in the greatest danger of falling. You must
    always remember that in this life you can fall at any time from
    any level. 'Take heed when you think you stand, lest you fall,'
    When you think you are the least vulnerable to falling is in fact
    when you are the most vulnerable. Most men fall right after a
    great victory."
    
    Wisdom for the Battle
    
    "How can we keep from being attacked like this?" I asked. "Stay
    close to me, inquire of the Lord before making any major decisions,
    and keep that mantle on, and the enemy will never be able to
    blindside you as he did those."
    
    I looked at my mantle. It looked so plain and insignificant. I
    felt that it made me look more like a homeless person than a
    warrior. Wisdom responded as if I had been speaking out loud, "The
    Lord is closer to the homeless than to princes. You only have true
    strength to the degree that you walk in the grace of God, and 'He
    gives His grace to the humble.' No enemy weapon can penetrate this
    mantle, because nothing can overpower His grace. As long as you
    wear this mantle you are safe from this kind of attack."
    
    I then started to look up to see how many warriors were still on
    the mountain. I was shocked to see how few there were. I then
    noticed that they all had on the same mantle of humility. "How did
    that happen?" I inquired. "When they saw the battle you just
    witnessed, they all came to me for help, and I gave them their
    mantles," Wisdom replied. "But I thought you were with me that whole
    time?" "I am with all who go forth to do the will of the Father,"
    Wisdom answered.
    
    
    "You're the Lord!" I cried "Yes," He answered. "I told you that
    I would never leave you or forsake you. I am with all of My
    warriors just as I am with you. I will be to you whatever you need
    to accomplish My will, and you have needed wisdom." Then He vanished.
    
    Rank in the Kingdom
    
    I was left standing in the midst of the great company of angels
    who were ministering to the wounded on the level of "Salvation."
    As I began to walk past these angels, they bowed to one knee and
    showed me the greatest respect. I finally asked one of them why
    they did this, as even the smallest was much more powerful than I
    was. "Because of the mantle," he replied. "That is the highest
    rank in the kingdom."
    
    
    "This is just a plain mantle," I protested. "No!" the angel
    protested. "You are clothed in the grace of God.  There is no
    greater power than that!" "But there are thousands of us all
    wearing the same mantle. How could it represent rank?" You are
    the dread champions, the sons and daughters of the King. He wore
    the same mantle when He walked on this earth. As long as you are
    clothed in that there is no power in heaven or earth that can
    stand before you. Everyone in heaven and hell recognizes that
    mantle. We are His servants, but He abides in you, and you are
    clothed in His grace."
    
    Somehow I knew if I had not been wearing the mantle, and if my
    glorious armor had been exposed, that the angel's statement, and
    their behavior toward me, could have really fed my pride. It was
    simply impossible to feel prideful or arrogant while wearing such
    a drab, plain, cloak. However, my confidence in the mantle was
    growing fast.
    
    The Return of the Eagles
    
    Then on the horizon I saw a great white cloud approaching. Hope
    arose in me just by seeing it. It actually filled the atmosphere
    with hope just as the sun rising chases away the darkness of
    night. As it grew closer I recognized the great white eagles that
    had flown from the Tree of Life. They began landing on the
    mountain, taking their place on every level beside the companies
    of warriors.
    
    I carefully and respectfully approached the eagle who had landed
    near me because his presence was so awesome. when he looked at me
    with his penetrating eyes, I knew I could hide nothing from him.
    His eyes were so fierce and resolute that I trembled as chills ran
    through me just looking at them. Before I could even ask, he
    answered me. "You want to know who we are. We are the hidden
    prophets who have been kept for this hour. We are the eyes of
    those who have been given the divinely powerful weapons. We have
    been shown all that the Lord is doing, and all that the enemy is
    planning against you. We have scoured the earth and together we
    know all that needs to be known for the battle."
    
    "Did you not see the battle that just took place?" I asked with as
    much irritation as I dared to express. "Couldn't you have helped
    those warriors that were just taken captive?" "Yes. We saw it all,
    and we could have helped if they had wanted it. But our help would
    have been to restrain them. We can only fight in the battles that
    the Father commands, and we can only help those who believe in
    us. Only those who receive us as who we are, the prophets, can
    receive the prophet's reward, or the benefit of our service.
    Those who were ambushed did not yet have the mantle that you are
    wearing, and those who do not have the mantle cannot understand
    who we are. We all need each other, including these here who are
    still wounded, and many others who you do not yet know."
    
    The Heart of the Eagle
    
    By talking to the eagle I started very quickly to think like the
    eagle. After this short discussion I could see into the eagle's
    heart and know him like he knew me. The eagle recognized this.
    "You have some of our gifts," the eagle noted, "though they are
    not very well developed. You have not used them much. I am here to
    awaken these gifts in many of you, and to teach you to use them.
    In this way our communication will be sure. It must be sure or we
    will all suffer many unnecessary losses, not to mention missing
    many great opportunities for victory."
    
    "Where did you just come from?" I asked. "We eat snakes," the
    eagle replied. "The enemy is bread for us. Our sustenance comes
    from doing the Father's will, which is to destroy the works of
    the devil. Every snake that we eat helps to increase our vision.
    Every stronghold of the enemy that we tear down, strengthens us
    so we can soar higher and stay in the air longer. We have just
    come from a feast, devouring the serpents of shame who have bound
    many of your brothers and sisters. They will be here soon. They
    are coming with the eagles we left behind to help them find the
    way, and to protect them from the enemy's counterattacks."
    
    These eagles were very sure of themselves, but not cocky. They
    knew who they were, what they were called to do. They also knew us
    and they knew the future. Their confidence was reassuring to me,
    but even more so to the wounded that were still lying all around
    us. Those who had recently been too weak to talk were actually
    sitting us listening to my conversation with the eagle. They
    looked at him like a lost child would look to his parent who had
    just found him.
    
    The Wind of the Spirit
    
    When the eagle looked upon the wounded his countenance changed as
    well. In place of the fierce resolution I had stood before, toward
    the wounded he was like a soft, compassionate old grandfather. The
    eagle opened his wings and began to gently flap them, stirring up
    a cool refreshing breeze that flowed over the wounded. It was not
    like any other breeze I had ever felt before. With each breath I
    felt I was gaining strength and clarity of mind. Soon the wounded
    were standing and worshiping God with a sincerity that brought
    tears to my eyes. Again I felt a profound shame at having scorned
    those who stayed on this level. They had seemed so weak and
    foolish to those of us who were ascending the mountain, but they
    had endured much more than we had and remained faithful. God had
    kept them and they loved Him with a great love.
    
    I looked up at the mountain; all of the eagles were gently
    flapping their wings. Everyone on the mountain was being refreshed
    by the breeze they were stirring up, and everyone on the mountain
    was beginning to worship the Lord. At first there was some discord
    between the worship that was coming from the different levels, but
    after a time everyone on every level was singing in perfect
    harmony. Never on earth had I heard anything that beautiful. I
    never wanted it to end. Soon I recognized it as the same worship
    that we had known in the Garden, but now it sounded even more full
    and rich. I knew that it was because we were worshiping in the
    very presence of our enemies, in the midst of such darkness and
    evil that surrounded the mountain, that it seemed so much more
    beautiful.
    
    I do not know whether this worship lasted hours, days, or minutes,
    but eventually the eagles stopped flapping their wings and it
    stopped. "Why did you stop?" I asked the eagle that I had been
    talking to. "Because they are now whole," he replied, indicating
    the wounded who were now all standing and appeared to be in
    perfect condition.  "True worship can heal any wound," he added.
    
    "Please do it again," I begged. "We will do this many times, but
    it is not for us to decide when. The breeze that you felt was
    the Holy Spirit. He directs us; we do not direct Him. He has
    healed the wounded and begun to bring about the unity that is
    required for the battles ahead. True worship also pours the
    precious oil upon the Head, Jesus, which then flows down over
    the entire body, making us one with Him and each other. No one
    who becomes one with Him will remain wounded or unclean. His
    blood is pure life, and it flows when we are joined to Him.
    When we are joined to Him we are also joined to the rest of the
    body, so that His blood flows through all. Is that not how you
    heal a wound to your body, by closing the wound so that the blood
    can flow to the wounded member to bring regeneration? When a part
    of His body is wounded, we must join in unity with that part until
    it is fully restored. We are all one in Him."
    
    The euphoria from the worship was still prevailing so that this
    little teaching seemed to be the most profound that I had ever
    heard, even though I had known it and taught it myself before. When
    the Holy Spirit moved every word seemed glorious, regardless of
    how elementary it was. It also filled me with so much love that I
    wanted to hug everyone, including the fierce old eagles. Then,
    like a jolt, I remembered the mighty warriors who had just been
    captured. The eagle sensed this but did not say anything. He just
    watched me intently. Finally, I spoke up; "Can we recover those
    who were just lost?"
    
                                  (Continued)
    
    

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    The Wounded Heart of the King
    
    "Yes, it is right for you to feel what you do," the eagle finally
    said. "We are not complete, and our worship is not complete, until
    the whole body is restored. Even in the most glorious worship,
    even in the very presence of the King, we will all feel this
    emptiness until all are one, because our King also feels it. We
    all grieve for our brothers in bondage, but we grieve even more
    for the heart of our King. Just as you love all of your children,
    but would be grieved for the one who was sick or wounded, He too
    loves all of His children, but the wounded and oppressed have most
    of His attention now. For His sake we must not quit until all have
    been recovered. As long as any are wounded, He is wounded."
    
    Faith That Moves Mountains
    
    Sitting down by the eagle, I thought deeply about what he said.
    Finally I asked, "I know that Wisdom now speaks to me through you,
    because I hear His voice when you speak. I was so sure of myself
    before that last battle, but I was almost carried away with the
    same presumption that they were carried away with, and could very
    easily have been captured with them if Wisdom had not stopped me.
    I was going out of hatred for the enemy more than wanting to set
    my brothers free, though that was part of my motive. Since first
    coming to this mountain, and fighting in the great battle, I now
    think that most of the right things I did, I did for the wrong
    reasons, and many of the wrong things I did, I had good motives
    for. The more I learn, the more unsure of myself I feel."
    
    "You must have been with Wisdom a long time," the eagle responded.
    "He was with me a long time before I began to recognize Him, but I
    am afraid that most of that time I was resisting Him. Somehow I
    now know that I am still lacking something very important,
    something that I must have before I go into battle again, but I do
    not know what it is." The great eagle's eyes became more penetrating
    than I had ever seen them as he responded, "You also know the voice
    of Wisdom when He speaks to you in your own heart. You are learning
    well because you have the mantle. What you are feeling now is the
    true faith." "Faith!" I shot back. "I'm talking about serious doubts."
    
    "You are wise to doubt yourself. But true faith depends on God,
    not yourself, and not your faith. You are close to the kind of
    faith that can move this mountain, and move it must. It is time to
    carry it to places that it has not gone to before. However, you
    are right. You are still lacking something very important. You
    must yet have a great revelation of the King. Even though you have
    climbed to the top of the mountain, and received from every truth
    along the way, and even though you have stood in the Garden of
    God, tasted of His unconditional love, and have seen His Son many
    times now, you still only understand a part of the whole counsel
    of God, and that only superficially."
    
    I knew that this was so true that it was very comforting to hear
    it. "I have judged so many people and so many situations wrongly.
    Wisdom has saved my life many times now, but the voice of Wisdom
    is still a very small voice within me, and the clamor of my own
    thoughts and feelings are still far too loud. I hear wisdom
    speaking through you much louder than I hear Him in my own heart,
    so I know I must stay very close to you."
    
    "We are here because you need us," the eagle replied. "We are also
    here because we need you. You have been given gifts that I do not
    have, and I have been given gifts that you do not have. You have
    experienced things that I have not experienced, and I have
    experienced things that you have not known. The eagles have been
    given to you until the end, and you have been given to us. I will
    be very close to you for a time, and then you must receive other
    eagles in my place. Every eagle is different. It is together that
    we have been given to know the secrets of the Lord, not
    individually."
    
    The Doors of Truth
    
    The eagle then lifted up from the rock on which he had been
    perched, and soared over the edge of the level on which we stood.
    "Come," he said. As I approached him I saw steps that led down to
    the very base of the mountain. There was a small door. "Why have
    I not seen this before?" I asked. "When you first came to the
    mountain you did not stay on this level long enough to look
    around," he answered. "How did you know that? Were you here when
    I first came to the mountain?"
    
    
    "I would have known if I had not been here, because all who miss
    this door do so for the same reason, but in fact I was here," he
    responded. "I was one of the soldiers you so quickly passed on
    your way up the mountain." It was then that I recognized the
    eagle as a man whom I had met soon after my conversion, whom I
    had actually had a few conversations with. He continued, "I
    wanted badly to follow you then. I had been on this level for
    so long that I needed a change. I just could not leave all of
    the lost souls that I was still trying to lead here. When I
    finally committed myself to doing the Lord's will, whether it
    was to stay or go, Wisdom appeared to me and showed me this
    door. He said it was a shortcut to the top. That is how I got
    to the top before you did, and was changed into an eagle."
    
    I then remembered that I had seen doors like this on a couple of
    the levels, I had even peeked into a couple of them and remember
    how amazed I had been at what I saw. I did not venture into any of
    them very far, because I was so focused on the battle and trying
    to get to the top of the mountain. "Could I have entered any of
    those doors and gone right to the top?" I asked.
    
    "It is not quite that easy," the eagle remarked, seeming a little
    irritated. "In every door there are passage ways, one of which
    leads to the top." Obviously know my next question, he continued.
    "The other ones lead to the other levels on the mountain. The
    Father designed each so that everyone would choose the one that
    their level of maturity dictated that they needed." "Incredible!
    How did He do that?" I thought to myself, but the eagle heard my
    thoughts. "It was very simple," continued the eagle as if I had
    spoken my thoughts out loud. "Spiritual maturity is always
    determined by the willingness of one to sacrifice their own
    desires for the interests of the kingdom or for the sake of others."
    
    I was carefully noting all that was said. I somehow knew that I
    must enter the door before me, and that it would be wise for me to
    learn all that I could from someone who had been there before and
    had obviously chosen the right door to the top. "I did not go
    directly to the top, and neither have I met anyone who has," the
    eagle continued. "But I went there much faster than most because
    I had learned so much about self-sacrifice while fighting here on
    the level of 'Salvation.' I have shown you this door because you
    wear the mantle and would have found it anyway, but the time is
    short and I am here to help you mature quickly.  There are doors
    on every level, and every one leads to treasures that are beyond
    your comprehension.
    
    They cannot be acquired physically, but every treasure that you
    hold in your hands you will be able to carry on in your heart.
    Your heart is meant to be the treasure house of God. But by the
    time you reach the top again, your heart will contain treasures
    more valuable than all of the treasures of the whole earth. They
    will never be taken from you, but they are yours for eternity,
    because you are God's. Go quickly. The storm clouds are now
    gathering, and the great battle is near."
    
    "Will you go with me?" I pleaded. "No," he responded. "This is
    where I now belong. I have much to do to help these who were wounded.
    But I will see you here again. You will meet many of my brother and
    sister eagles before you return, and they will be able to help you
    better than I at the place where you meet them."
    
    The Treasures of Heaven
    
    I already loved that eagle so much that I could hardly stand to
    leave him. I was glad to know I would see him again. Now the door
    was drawing me like a magnet. I opened it and entered. The glory
    that I beheld was so stunning that I immediately fell to my knees.
    The gold, silver and precious stones were far more beautiful than
    anything I had ever seen on the earth. The room was so large that
    it seemed to be without end. The floor was silver, the pillars
    gold, and the ceiling was pure diamond that emitted every color I
    had ever known and many that I had not known. Angels without
    number were everywhere, dressed in different robes and uniforms
    that were of no earthly origin.
    
    As I began to walk through the room, the angels all bowed in
    salute. One stepped forward and welcomed me by name. He explained
    that I could go anywhere and see anything that I wanted in the
    room. Nothing was withheld from those who came through the door.
    I could not even speak I was so overwhelmed by the beauty. I
    finally remarked that this was even more beautiful than the Garden
    had been. Surprised, the angel responded, "This is the Garden!
    This is one of the rooms in your Father's house. We are your
    servants."
    
    As I walked, a great company of angels followed me. I turned and
    asked the leader why they were following. "Because of the mantle,"
    he said. "We have been given to you, to serve you here and in the
    battle to come." I did not know what to do with the angels so I
    just continued walking. I was attracted to a large blue stone that
    appeared to have the sun and clouds within it. When I touched it
    the same feeling flooded over me as when I ate the fruit of the
    Tree of Life. I felt energy, great mental clarity, and love for
    everyone and everything being magnified. I started to behold the
    glory of the Lord. The longer I touched the stone the more the glory
    increased. I never wanted to take my hand off  of the stone, but
    the glory became so intense that I had to look away.
    
    Then my eyes fell on a beautiful green stone. "What does that one
    have in it?" I asked the angel standing nearby. "All of these
    stones are the treasures of salvation. You are now touching the
    heavenly realm, and that one is the restoration of life," he continued.
    As I touched the green stone I began to see the earth in rich and
    spectacular colors. They grew in richness the longer I had my hand
    on the stone, and my love for all that I saw grew. Then I began to
    see a harmony between all living things on a level that I had never
    seen before. Then I began to see the glory of the lord in the
    creation. It began to grow until again I had to turn away because of
    the intensity.
    
    Then I realized that I had no idea how long I had been there. I
    did know that my comprehension of God and His universe had grown
    substantially by just touching these two stones, and there were
    many, many more. There was more in that one room than a person
    could have absorbed in a whole lifetime. "How many more rooms are
    there?" I asked the angel. "There are rooms like this on every
    level of the mountain that you climbed."
    
    "How can one ever experience all that is in just one of these
    rooms, much less all of them?" I asked. "You have forever to do
    this. The treasures contained in the most basic truths of the Lord
    Jesus are enough to last for many of your present lifetimes. No man
    can know all that there is to know about any of them in just one
    life, but you must take what you need and keep proceeding toward
    your destiny."
    
    I started thinking about the impending battle again, and the
    warriors who had been captured. It was not a pleasant thought in
    such a glorious place, but I knew I would have forever to come
    back to this room, and only had a short time to find my way back
    to the top of the mountain, and then back to the battle from again.
    I turned to the angel. "You must help me find the door that leads
    to the top." The angel looked perplexed, "we are your servants,"
    he responded, "but you must lead us. This whole mountain is a
    mystery to us. We all desired to look into this great mystery, but
    after we leave this room that we have come to know just a little
    about, we will be learning even more than you."
    
    "Do you know where all of the doors are?" I asked. "Yes, But we do
    not know where they lead. There are some that look very inviting,
    and some that are plain, and some that are actually repulsive. One
    is even terrible." "In this place there are doors that are repulsive?"
    I asked in disbelief. "And one that is terrible ? How can that be?"
    "We do not know, but I can show it to you," he responded. "Please do,"
    I said.
    
    We walked for quite a time, passing treasures unspeakable, all of
    which I had great difficulty not stopping to touch. There were
    also many doors, with different biblical truths over each one.
    When the angel had call them "inviting" I felt that he had quite
    understated their appeal. I badly wanted to go through each one,
    but my curiosity about the "terrible door" kept me moving. Then I
    saw it. "Terrible" had also been an understatement. Fear gripped
    me so that it took my breath away.
    
    Grace and Truth
    
    I turned away from the door and retreated fast. There was a
    beautiful red stone nearby, which I almost lunged at to lay my
    hands on it. Immediately I was in the Garden of Gethsemane
    beholding the Lord in prayer. The agony I beheld was even more
    terrible than the door I had just seen. Shocked, I jerked my hand
    away from the stone and fell to the floor in exhaustion. I badly
    wanted to return to the blue or green stones, but I had to
    regather my energy and sense of direction. The angels were quickly
    all around me serving me. I was given a drink that began to revive
    me. Soon I was feeling well enough to stand and begin walking back
    to the other stones. However, the recurring vision of the Lord
    praying compelled me to stop.
    
    "What was that back there?" I asked. "When you touch the stones
    we are able to see a little of what you see, and feel a little of
    what you feel," said the angel. "We know that all of these stones
    are great treasures, and all of the revelations they contain are
    priceless. We beheld for a moment the agony of the Lord before His
    crucifixion, and we felt briefly what He felt that terrible night.
    It is hard for us to understand how our God could ever suffer like
    that. It makes us appreciate much more what an honor it is to serve
    you whom He did it for."
    
    The angels' words were like lightning bolts straight to my soul. I
    had fought in the great battle. I had climbed to the top of the
    mountain. I had become so familiar with the spiritual realm that I
    hardly noticed angels any more, and I could speak on nearly equal
    terms with the great eagles, yet I could not bear to share in even
    a moment of the sufferings of My King without wanting to flee to a
    more pleasurable experience. "I should not be here," I almost
    shouted. "I, more than anyone, deserve to be a prisoner of the
    evil one!"
    
    "Sir," the angel said almost shyly. "We understand that no one is
    here because they deserve it. You are here because you were chosen
    before the foundation of the world for a purpose. We do not know
    what your purpose is, but we know that it is very great for
    everyone on this mountain." "Thank you. You are most helpful. My
    emotions are being greatly stretched by this place, and they have
    tended to overcome my understanding. You are right. No one is here
    because they are worthy. Truly, the higher we climb on this mountain,
    the more unworthy we are to be there, and the more grace we need to
    stay there. How did I ever make it to the top the first time?"
    "Grace," my angel responded.
    
    "If you want to help me," I then said, "please keep repeating that
    word to me when ever you see me in confusion or despair. That word
    I am coming to understand better than any other, and it always
    brings great illumination to my soul." "Now I must go back to the
    red stone. I know now that is the greatest treasure in this room,
    and I must not leave until I am carrying that treasure in my heart,"
    I said with more resolution in my words than I felt in my heart at
    that time, but I nevertheless knew that it was true."
    
    The Truth of Grace
    
    The time that I spent at the red stone was the most painful that I
    have ever experienced. Many times I simply could not take any more
    but had to withdraw my hand. Several times I went back to the blue
    or green stones to rejuvenate my soul before I returned. I was
    extremely hard to return to the red stone each time, but my love and
    appreciation for the Lord was growing through this more than anything
    I had ever learned or experienced.
    
    Finally, when the presence of the Father departed from Jesus on
    the cross, I could not stand it anymore. I quit. I could tell that
    the angels, who were also experiencing what I was, were in full
    agreement. The willpower to touch the stone again simply was not in
    me anymore. I did not even feel like going back to the blue stone. I
    just laid on the floor weeping over what the Lord had gone through.
    I also wept because I knew that I had deserted Him just like His
    disciples. I failed Him when He needed me the most, just like they did.
    
    After what seemed like several days, I opened my eyes. Another eagle
    was standing beside me. In front of him were three stones, one blue,
    one green, and one red. "Eat them," he said. When I did, my whole
    being was renewed, and both a great joy and great soberness flooded
    my soul. When I stood up, I caught sight of the same three stones set
    into the handle of my sword, and then on each of my shoulders. "These
    are now yours forever," the eagle said. "They cannot be taken from
    you, and you cannot lose them." "But I did not finish this last one,"
    I protested. "Christ alone will ever finish that test," he replied.
    "You have done well, but you must no on now." "Where to?" I asked.
    "You must decide, but with time getting shorter I will suggest that
    you try to get to the top soon," the eagle replied as he departed in
    an obvious hurry.
    
    Then I remembered the doors. I immediately started toward the doors
    that had been so appealing. When I reached the first one it simply did
    not appeal to me anymore. Then I went to another, and it felt the same.
    "Something seems to have changed," I remarked out loud. "You have
    changed," the entire troop of angels replied at once. I turned to look
    at them and was amazed at how much they had changed. They no longer
    had the naive look they had before, but were now more regal and wise-
    looking than any of the angels I had seen. I knew they reflected what
    had also taken place in me, but I now felt uncomfortable just thinking
    about myself.
    
    "I ask for your counsel," I said to the leader. "Listen to your heart,"
    he said. "That is where these great truths now abide." "I have never
    been able to trust my own heart," I responded. "It is subject to so
    many delusions, deceptions, and selfish ambitions, that it is hard to
    even hear the Lord speaking to me above the clamor of it." "Sir, with
    the red stone now in your heart, I do not believe that will continue
    to be the case," the leader offered with uncharacteristic confidence.
    I leaned against the wall, thinking that the eagle was not here when
    I needed him the most. He had been this way before and would know which
    door to choose. As I pondered, the "terrible door" was the only one
    that I could think of. Out of curiosity I decided to go back and look
    at it. I had departed from it so fast the first time that I had not
    even
    noticed which truth it represented.
    
    As I approached it I could feel the fear welling up inside of me,
    but not nearly as bad as the first time. In great contrast to the
    others, it was very dark around this door, and I had to get very
    close to read the truth over it. Mildly surprised, I read THE
    JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST. "Why is this truth so fearful?" I asked
    aloud, knowing that the angels would not answer me. As I looked at
    it I knew that it was the one I should go through. "There are many
    reasons that it is fearful," the familiar voice of the eagle responded.
    
    "I'm glad you came back," I replied. "Have I made a bad choice?"
    "No! You have chosen well. This door will take you back to the top
    of the mountain faster than any other. It is fearful because the
    greatest fear in the creation has its source through that door- the
    holy fear of God. The greatest wisdom that men can know in this
    life, or in the life to come, are found through those doors, but
    very few will go through them."
    
    But why is this door so dark?" I asked. "The light of these doors
    reflect the attention that the church is presently giving to the
    truths behind them. The truth behind that door is one of the most
    neglected of these times, but it is one of the most important. You
    will understand when you enter. The greatest authority that men can
    receive will only be entrusted to those who will go through this door.
    When you see Christ Jesus sitting on this throne, you too will be
    prepared to sit with Him on it."
    
    "Then this door would not be so dark and forbidding if we had just
    given more attention to this truth?" "That is correct. If men knew
    the glory that is revealed behind that door, it would be one of the
    most brilliant," the eagle lamented. "However, it is still a difficult
    door to pass through. I was told to return and encourage you because
    you will soon need it. You will see a greater glory, but also a
    greater terror than you have ever known. But know that because you
    have chosen the difficult way now, it will be much easier for you
    later. Because you are willing to face this hard truth now, you will
    not suffer loss later. Many love to know His kindness, but very few are
    willing to know His severity. If you do not know both you will
    always be in danger of deception and a fall from His great grace."
    
    "I know that I could never come here if I had not spent the time that
    I did at the red stone. How could I keep trying to take the easy way
    when that is so contrary to the nature of the Lord?" "But now you have
    chosen, so go quickly. Another great battle is about to begin, and you
    are needed at the front."
    
                                  (Continued)
    

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    The Judgment Seat of Christ
    
    I gazed one final time around the huge room inside of the
    mountain. The treasures of the truth of Salvation were kept here.
    It seemed that there was no end to their expanse or beauty. I
    could not imagine that the rooms which contained the other great
    truths of the faith could be any more glorious.  This helped me to
    understand why so many Christian never wanted to leave this place.
    The large gems which represented the different aspects of Salvation
    all exuded a glory far beyond any earthly beauty. It was wonderful
    beyond description, and I knew that I could stay here for eternity
    and never get bored.
    
    The eagle who was standing next to me almost shouted: "You must go
    on!" Then more calmly he continued, "There is no greater peace and
    safety than to abide in the Lord's salvation. You were brought here
    to know this because you will need it where you are now going. But
    you must not stay here any longer." The eagle's statement about the
    peace and safety touched something in me. I thought about the
    courageous warriors who had fought in the battle from the first level
    of the mountain, "Salvation." They had fought so well and delivered
    so many, but they had also all been badly wounded. Then the eagle
    again interrupted my thoughts as if he were listening to them.
    
    "God has a different definition of peace and safety than we do. To
    be wounded in the fight is a great honor. That is why the apostle
    Paul boasted of his beatings and stonings. There is no courage
    unless there is real danger. The Lord said He would go with Joshua
    to fight for the Promised Land, but over and over exhorted him to
    be strong and courageous because he was going to have to fight,
    and there would be dangers. It is in this way that the Lord proves
    those who are worthy of the Promises- they love God and His
    provision more than their own security. Courage is a demonstration
    of true faith. The Lord never promised that His way would be easy,
    but it would be worth it. The courage of those who fought from the
    level of Salvation moved the angels of heaven to esteem what God
    has wrought in the fallen race of men. They took their wounds in
    the terrible onslaught, but they did not quit, and they did not
    retreat. Even so, by climbing the mountain you were able to fight
    with an authority that ultimately freed even more souls. Many more
    souls will fill these rooms, to the great joy of heaven, if you go
    on."
    
    I then turned and looked at the dark and forbidding door over
    which was written: The Judgment Seat of Christ.  Just as warmth
    and peace had flooded my soul each time I looked at this door.
    Everything in me wanted to stay in this room, and nothing in me
    wanted to go through that door. Again the eagle answered my
    thoughts. "Before you enter the door to any great truth you will
    have these same feelings. You even felt that way when you entered
    into this room to the treasures of salvation. These fears are the
    result of the fall. They are the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge
    of Good and Evil. The knowledge from that tree made us all insecure
    and self-centered. The knowledge of good and evil makes the true
    knowledge of God seem fearful, when in fact every truth from above
    leads to an even greater peace and security. Even the judgments of
    God are to be desired, because all of His ways are perfect."
    
    By now I had experienced enough to know that what seems right is
    often the least fruitful path, and sometimes the road to tragedy.
    Throughout my journey, the path on which it seemed that the most
    was risked was the path that lead to the greatest reward. Even so,
    each time it seemed that more was being risked. To make the choice
    to go on therefore got harder each time.
    
    "It takes more faith to walk in the higher realms of the Spirit,"
    the eagle stated, seeming a little more irritated. "The Lord gave
    us a map to His kingdom when He said, 'If you seek to save your
    life you will lose it, but if you will lose your life for My sake
    you will find it.' Those words alone can keep you on the path to
    the top of the mountain, and will lead you to victory in the great
    battle ahead. They will also help you to stand before the Judgment
    Seat of Christ," he added, looking toward the door.
    
    I knew I had to go. I knew that I should remember this glorious
    room and the treasures of salvation, but I also knew that I should
    not look back to them again. I had to go on. I turned and with all
    of the courage I could muster, opened the door to the Judgment Seat
    of Christ and stepped through it. The troop of angels that had been
    assigned to me took positions all around the door, but did not enter.
    "What's the matter? Aren't you coming?" I demanded, badly wanting
    the security of their company. "Where you are going now you must go
    alone. We will be waiting for you one the other side."
    
    Without responding, I turned and started walking before I could
    change my mind. It was the hardest thing I had ever done. I was in
    the most frightening darkness I had ever experienced. The most
    terrible fears rose up within me. Soon I began to think that I had
    stepped into hell itself. I thought about retreating, but when I
    looked back I could see nothing. The door was closed and I could
    not even see where it was located. Resolving that I now had to go
    on, I moved slowly, praying for the Lord to help me. As I did, peace
    began to grow in my heart.
    
    I then noticed that the dark was no longer cold, but began to feel
    comfortable. Then I started to behold a dim light. Gradually it
    became a glorious light so wonderful that I felt that I was
    entering into heaven itself. Now the glory increased with every
    step. I wondered how anything this wonderful could have an entrance
    so dark and forbidding. I wanted to savor every step before taking
    another. Soon the path opened into a hall so large that I felt that
    the earth itself could not contain it. The beauty of it could not
    even be imagined by human architects. I had never experienced anything
    like what filled my soul as I beheld this room. At the far end was
    the Source of the glory that emanated from everything else in the
    room. I knew that it was the Lord, and I was a little bit afraid
    as I began to walk toward Him. I did not even think about how
    great the distance was. It was all so wonderful that I felt that I
    could walk forever and enjoy every step. In earthly terms, that
    somehow did not relate here, it would have taken me many days to
    reach the throne.
    
    My eyes were so fixed on the glory of the Lord that I had walked a
    long time before I noticed that I was passing multitudes of people
    who were standing in ranks to my left (There were just as many to
    my right but they were so far away that I did not notice them
    until I reached the throne). As I looked at them I had to stop.
    They were dazzling, more regal than anyone I had ever seen. Their
    countenance was captivating. Never had such peace and confidence
    graced a human face. Each one was beautiful beyond any earthly
    comparison. As I turned toward those who were close to me they
    bowed in a greeting as if they knew me.
    
    "How is it that you know me?" I asked, surprised at my own boldness
    to ask such a question of them. "You are one of the saints who is
    fighting in the last battle," a man close by responded. "Everyone
    here knows you, and all of those who are now fighting on the earth.
    We are the saints who have served the Lord in the generations before
    you. We are the great cloud of witnesses who have been given the
    right to behold the last battle. We know all of you, and we see all
    that you do."
    
    I then noticed someone I had known on earth. He had been a
    faithful believer, but I did not think he had done anything of
    significance. He was so physically unattractive on earth that it
    had made him shy. Here he had the same features, but was somehow
    more handsome than any person I had known on earth. He stepped up
    to me with an assurance and dignity that I had never seen in him,
    or anyone, before.
    
    "Heaven is much greater than we could have dreamed while on
    earth," he began. "This room is but the threshold of realms of
    glory that are far beyond the ability we had to comprehend. It is
    also true that the second death is much more terrible than we
    understood. Neither heaven or hell are like we thought they were.
    If I had known on earth what I know here I would not have lived
    the way that I did. You are blessed with a great grace to have
    come here before you have died." he said while looking at my
    garments.
    
    I then looked at myself. I still had the old mantle of humility
    on, with the armor under it. I felt both foul and crude standing
    before those who were so regal and beautiful. I began to think
    that I was in serious trouble if I was going to appear before the
    Lord like this. Like the eagles, my old acquaintance could
    understand my thoughts, and he replied to them: "Those who come
    here wearing that mantle have nothing to fear. That mantle is the
    highest rank of honor, and it is why they all bowed to you while
    you passed."
    
    "I did not notice anyone bowing to me," I replied, a bit disconcerted.
    "It is not improper," he continued. "Here we show each other the
    respect that is due. Even the angles serve us here, but only our God
    and His Christ are worshiped." I was still ashamed. I had to retrain
    myself to keep from bowing to these glorious ones, while at the same
    time wanting to hide myself because I looked so bad. Then I began
    lamenting the fact that my thoughts here were just as foolish here as
    they were on earth, and here everyone knew them! I felt both stained
    and stupid standing before these who were so awesome and pure. Again
    my old acquaintance responded to these thoughts.
    
    "We have our incorruptible bodies now, and you do not. Our minds are
    no longer hindered by sin. We are therefore able to comprehend many
    times what even the greatest earthly mind can fathom, and we will
    spend eternity growing in our ability to understand. This is so that
    we can know the Father, and understand the glory of His creation. On
    earth you cannot even begin to understand what the least of these here
    know, and we are the least of those here."
    
    
    "How could you be the least?" I asked with disbelief. "There is an
    aristocracy here. The rewards for our earthly lives are the eternal
    positions that we have here. This great multitude here are those whom
    the Lord called 'foolish virgins.' We knew the Lord, and trusted in His
    cross for deliverance from damnation, but we did not really live for
    Him, but for ourselves. We did not keep our vessels filled with the
    oil of the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life, but we wasted our lives
    on earth." I was really surprised by this, but I also knew that no one
    could lie in that place.
    
    "The foolish virgins gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness," I
    protested. "And that we did. The grief that we experienced when we
    understood how we had so wasted our lives was beyond any grief possible
    on earth. The darkness of that grief can only be understood by those
    who have experienced it. Such darkness is magnified when it is
    revealed next to the glory of the One we failed. You are standing now
    among the lowest rank in heaven. There is no greater fools than the
    ones who know the great salvation of God, but then go on living for
    themselves. To come here and learn the reality of that folly is a grief
    beyond what an earthly soul can experience. We are those who suffered
    this outer darkness because of this greatest of follies."
    
    I was still incredulous. "But you are more glorious and full of more
    joy and peace than I even imagined, even for those in heaven. I do not
    feel any remorse in you, and yet I know that here you cannot lie. This
    does not make sense to me." Looking me straight in the eyes, he
    continued, "The Lord also loves us with a love greater than you can
    yet understand. Before His judgment seat I tasted the greatest
    darkness of soul and remorse that can be experienced. Though here we
    do not measure time as you do, it seemed to last for as long as my
    life on earth had lasted. All of my sins and follies which I had not
    repented of passed before me, and before all who are here. The grief
    of this you cannot understand until you have experienced it.
    
    I felt that I was in the deepest dungeon of hell, even as I stood
    before the Lord. He was resolute until my life had been completely
    reviewed. When I said I was sorry and asked for the mercy of His
    cross, He wiped away my tears and took away the great darkness. He
    looked at me with a love that was beyond anything that you can now
    understand. He gave me this robe. I no longer feel the darkness or
    bitterness that I knew as I stood before Him, but I remember it.
    Only here can you remember such things without continuing to feel
    the pain. A moment in the lowest part of heaven is much greater
    than a thousand years of the highest life on earth. Now my mourning
    at my folly has been turned into joy, and I know that I will know
    joy forever, even if I am in the lowest place in heaven."
    
    I began to think again of the treasures of salvation. Somehow I
    knew that all that this man had told me was revealed by those
    treasures. Every step I had taken up the mountain, or into it, had
    revealed that His ways are both more fearful and more wonderful
    than I had known before.
    
    Looking at me intently, my former acquaintance continued. "You are
    not here to understand, but to experience. The next level of rank
    here is many times greater than what we have. Each level after is
    that much greater than the previous one. It is not just that each
    level has an even more glorious spiritual body, but that each
    level is closer to the throne where all of the glory comes from.
    Even so, I no longer feel the grief of my failure. I really
    deserve nothing. I am here by grace alone, and I am so thankful
    for what I have. He is so worthy to be loved. I could be doing
    many wondrous things now in the different realms of heaven, but I
    would rather stay here and just behold the glory, even if I am on
    the outer fringes."
    
    Then, with a distant look in his eyes, he added, "Everyone in
    heaven is now in this room to watch His great mystery unfold, and
    to watch those of you who will fight the last battle." "Can you
    see Him from here?" I asked. "I see His glory far away, but I
    cannot see Him." "I can see many times better than you can," he
    answered. "And yes, I can see Him, and all that He is doing, even
    from here. I can also hear Him. I can also behold the earth. He
    gave us all that power. We are the great cloud of witnesses who
    are beholding you."
    
    He departed back into the ranks and I began walking again, trying
    to understand all that he had said to me. As I looked over the
    great host that he had said were the foolish virgins, the ones who
    had spiritually slept away their life on earth, I knew that if any
    one of them appeared on earth now that they would be worshiped as
    gods, and yet they were the very least of those who were here!
    
    I then began to think of all of the time that I had wasted in my
    life. It was such an overwhelming thought that I stopped. Then
    parts of my life began to pass before me. I began to experience a
    terrible grief over this one sin. I too had been one of the
    greatest of fools! I may have kept more oil in my lamp than others,
    but now I knew how foolish I had been to measure what was required
    of me by how others were doing. I, too, was one of the foolish
    virgins!
    
    Just when I thought I would collapse under the weight of this
    terrible discovery, a man who I had known and esteemed as one of
    the great men of God I had known, came forward to steady me.
    Somehow his touch revived me. He then greeted me warmly. He was a
    man that I had wanted to be discipled by. I had met him, but we
    did not get along well. Like a number of others I had tried to get
    close enough to learn from, I was an irritation to him and he
    finally asked me to leave. For years I had felt guilty about this,
    feeling that I had missed a great opportunity because of some flaw
    in my character. Even though I had put it out of my mind, I still
    carried the weight of this failure. When I saw him it all
    surfaced, and a sick feeling came over me. Now he was so regal
    that I felt even more repulsive and embarrassed by my poor state.
    I wanted to hide but there was no way I could avoid him here. To
    my surprise, his warmth toward me was so genuine that he quickly
    put me at ease. There did not seem to be any barriers between us.
    In fact, the love I felt coming from him almost completely took
    away my self-consciousness.
    
    "I have waited eagerly for this meeting," he said. "You were
    waiting for me?" I asked. "Why?" "You are just one of many that
    I am waiting for. I did not understand until my judgment that you
    were one that I was called to help, to even disciple, but I
    rejected you." "Sir," I protested. "It would have been a great
    honor to be discipled by you, and I am very thankful for the time
    that I did have with you, but I was so arrogant I deserved your
    rejection. I know that my rebellion and pride has kept me from
    ever having a real spiritual father. This was not your fault, but
    mine."
    
    "It is true that you were prideful, but that is not why I was
    offended with you. I was offended because of my insecurity, which
    made me want to control everyone around me. I was offended that
    you would not accept everything that I said without questioning
    it. I then started to look for anything that was wrong with you to
    justify my rejection. I began to feel that if I could not control
    you that you would one day embarrass me and my ministry. I
    esteemed my ministry more than I did the people for whom it was
    given to me, so I drove many like you away," he said.
    
    With a genuineness that is unknown in the realms of earth, he
    continued, "All children are rebellious, and think that the world
    revolves around them. That is why they need parents to raise them.
    Almost every child will at times bring reproach on his family, but
    he is still a part of the family. I turned away many of God's own
    children that he had entrusted to me for getting them safely to
    maturity. I failed with most of them. Most of them suffered
    terrible wounds and failures that I could have helped them to
    avoid.
    
    Many of them are now prisoners of the enemy. I built a
    large organization, and had considerable influence in the church,
    but the greatest gifts that the Lord trusted to me were the ones
    who were sent to me for discipling, many of whom I rejected. Had I
    not been so self-centered and concerned with my own reputation I
    would be a king here. I was called to one of the highest thrones.
    All that you have and will accomplish would have been in my
    heavenly account as well. Instead, much of what I gave my
    attention to was of very little true eternal significance. What
    looks good on earth looks very different here. What will make you
    a king on earth will often be a stumbling block to keep you from
    being a king here. What will make you a king here is lowly and
    unesteemed on earth. Will you forgive me?"
    
    "Of course," I said, quite embarrassed. "But I, too, am in need of
    your forgiveness. I still think that it was my awkwardness and
    rebellion that made if difficult for you." "It is true that you
    were not perfect, and I discerned some of your problems rightly,
    but that is never cause for rejection," he replied. "The Lord did
    not reject the world when He saw its failures. He did not reject me
    when He saw my sin. He laid down His life for us. It is always the
    greater who must lay down his life for the lessor. I was more
    mature. I had more authority than you, but I became like one of
    the goats in the parable; I rejected the Lord by rejecting you and
    the others that He sent to me."
    
    As he talked, his words were striking me deeply. I, too, was
    guilty of everything that he was repenting of. Many young men and
    women who I had brushed off as not being important enough for my
    time were now passing through my mind. How desperately I wanted to
    return now and gather them together! This grief that I began to
    feel was even worse than I had felt about wasting time. I had
    wasted people! Now many of these were prisoners of the enemy,
    wounded and captured during the battle on the mountain. This whole
    battle was for people, and yet people were often regarded as the
    least important. We will fight for truths more than for the people
    for whom they are given. We will fight for ministries while
    running roughshod over the people in them. "And many people think
    of me as a spiritual leader! I am truly the least of the saints,"
    I thought to myself.
    
    "I understand how you feel," remarked another man I recognized as
    one I considered one of the greatest Christian leaders of all
    time. "Paul the apostle said near the end of his life that he was
    the least of the saints. Then just before his death he even called
    himself 'the greatest of sinners.' Had he not learned that in his
    life on earth he, too, would have been in jeopardy of being one of
    the least of the saints in heaven. Because he learned it on earth
    he is now one of those closest to the Lord, and will be one of the
    highest in rank for all of eternity."
    
    Seeing this man in the company of "The foolish virgins" was the
    greatest surprise I had yet. "I cannot believe that you, too, are
    one of the foolish who slept away their lives on earth. Why are
    you here?" "I am here because I made one of the most grave
    mistakes you can make as one entrusted with the glorious gospel of
    our Savior. Just as the apostle Paul progressed from not
    considering himself inferior to the greatest apostles, to being
    the greatest of sinners, I took the opposite course. I started out
    knowing that I had been one the greatest of sinners who had found
    grace, but ended up thinking that I was one of the greatest
    apostles. It was because of my great pride, not insecurity like
    our friend here, that I began to attack everyone who did not see
    everything just the way I did.
    
    Those who followed me I stripped of their own callings, and even
    their personalities, pressuring them to all become just like me.
    No one around me could be themselves. No one dared to question me
    because I would crush them into powder; I thought that by making
    others smaller I made myself larger. I thought that I was supposed
    to be the Holy Spirit to everyone. From the outside, my ministry
    looked like a smooth running machine where everyone was in unity
    and there was perfect order, but it was the order of a concentration
    camp. I took the Lord's own children and made them automatons in
    my own image instead of His. In the end I was not even serving the
    Lord, but the idol I had built to myself. By the end of my life I
    was actually an enemy of the true gospel, at least in practice,
    even if my teachings and writings seemed impeccably biblical."
    
    "If that is true, that you became an enemy of the gospel, how is
    it that you are still here?" I questioned. "By the grace of God, I
    did trust in the cross for my own salvation, even though I actually
    kept other men from it, leading them to myself rather than to Him.
    The Lord remains faithful to us even when we are unfaithful. It
    was also by his grace that the Lord took me from the earth sooner
    than He would have just so those who were under me could find Him
    and come to know Him."
    
    I could not have been more stunned to think that this was true of
    this particular man. History had given us a very different picture
    of him. Reading what was going on in my heart, he continued:
    "God does have a different set of history books than those on the
    earth. You have had a glimpse of this, but you do not yet know how
    different they are. Earthly histories will pass away, but the
    books that are kept here will last forever. If you can rejoice in
    what heaven is recording about your life, you are blessed indeed.
    Men see through a glass darkly, so their histories will always be
    clouded, and sometimes completely wrong. Very few, even very few
    Christians, have the true gift of discernment. Without this gift
    it is impossible to accurately discern truth in those of the
    present or the past.
    
    Even with this gift it is difficult. Until you have been here, and
    been stripped, you will judge others through distorted prejudices,
    either positive or negative. That is why we were warned not to
    judge before the time. Until we have been here we just cannot
    really know what is in the heart of others, whether they are
    performing good or evil deeds. There have been good motives in even
    the worst of men, and evil motives in even the best of them. Only
    here can men be judged by both their deeds and their motives."
    
    "When I return to earth, will I be able to discern history
    accurately because I have been here?" "You are here because you
    prayed for the Lord to judge you severely, to correct you
    ruthlessly, so that you could serve Him more perfectly. This was
    one of the most wise requests you ever made. The wise judge
    themselves lest they be judged. The even wiser ask for the
    judgments of the Lord, because they realize that they cannot even
    judge themselves very well. Having come here you will leave with
    far more wisdom and discernment, but on earth you will always see
    through a glass darkly to at least some degree. Your experience
    here will help you to know men better, but only when you are fully
    here can you know them fully. When you leave here you will be more
    impressed by how little you know men rather than by how well you
    know them. This is just as true in relation to the histories of
    men. I have been allowed to talk with you because I have in a sense
    discipled you through my writings, and to know the truth about me
    will help you greatly," the great Reformer concluded.
    
                                   (Continued)
    

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    Then a woman stepped forward who I did not know. Her beauty and
    grace was breathtaking, but it was not sensual, or seductive in
    any way. She was the definition of dignity and nobility. "I was
    his wife on earth," she began. "Much of what you know of him
    actually came from me, therefore what I am about to say is not
    just about him, but about us. You can reform the church without
    reforming your own soul. You can dictate the course of history,
    and yet not do the Father's will, or glorify His Son. If you
    commit yourself to making human history, you may do it, but it is
    a fleeting accomplishment that will evaporate like a wisp of
    smoke."
    
    "But your husband's work, or your work, greatly impacted every
    generation after him for good. It is hard to imagine how dark the
    world would have been without him," I protested. "True. But you
    can gain the whole world and still loose your own soul. Only if
    you keep your own soul pure can you impact the world for the truly
    lasting eternal purpose of God. My husband lost his soul to me, and
    he only gained it at the end of his life because I was taken from
    the earth so that he could. Much of what he did he did more for me
    than for the Lord. I pressured him, and even gave him much of the
    knowledge that he taught. I used him as an extension of my own ego,
    because as a woman at the time I could not be recognized as a
    spiritual leader myself. I took over his life so that I could live
    my life through Him. Soon I had him doing everything just to prove
    himself to me."
    
    "You must have loved her very much." I said looking at him. "No. I
    did not love her at all. Neither did she love me. In fact, after
    just a few years of marriage we did not even like each other. But
    we both needed each other, so we found a way to work together. The
    more successful we became in this way, the more unhappy we became,
    and the more deception we used to fool those who followed us. We
    were empty wretches by the end of our lives. The more influence
    that you gain by you own self-promotion, the more striving you
    must do to keep your influence, and the more dark and cruel your
    life will become.
    
    Kings feared us, but we feared everyone from the kings to the
    peasants. We could trust no one because we were living in such
    deception ourselves we did not even trust each other. We preached
    love and trust, because we wanted everyone to love and trust us,
    but we feared and secretly despised everyone ourselves. If you
    preach the greatest truths but do not live them, you are only the
    greatest hypocrite."
    
    Their words began to pound me like a hammer. I could see that
    already my life was heading in the same direction. How much was I
    doing to promote myself rather than Christ. I began to see how
    much I did just to prove myself to others, especially those who
    disliked me, or who I felt in competition with in some way. I
    began to see how much of my own life was built on the facade of a
    projected image that belied who I really was. But here I could not
    hide. This great cloud of witnesses all knew who I was beyond the
    veil of my projected motives.
    
    I looked again at this couple. They were now so guileless and so
    truly noble that it was impossible to question their motives. They
    were gladly exposing their most devious sins for my sake, and were
    genuinely glad to be able to do it. "I may have had a wrong concept
    of you by your history and your writings, but I have even more
    esteem for you now. I pray that I can carry from this place the
    integrity and freedom that you have now. I am tired of trying to
    live up to projected images of myself. How I long for that freedom."
    I lamented, wanting desperately to remember every detail of this
    encounter.
    
    Then the famous Reformer offered a final exhortation:
    "Do not try to teach others to do what you are doing yourself.
    Reformation is not just a doctrine. True reformation only comes
    from union with the Savior. When you are yoked with Christ,
    carrying the burdens that He gives you, He will be with you and
    carry them for you. You can only do His work when you are doing it
    with Him, not just for Him. Only the Spirit can beget that which
    is Spirit. If you are yoked with Him you will do nothing for the
    sake of politics or history. Anything that you do because of
    political pressures, or opportunities, will only lead you to the
    end of your true ministry. The things that are done for the sake
    of trying to make history will at best doom your accomplishments
    to history, and you will fail to impact eternity. If you do not
    live what you preach to others you disqualify yourself from the
    high calling of God, just as we did.
    
    I will tell you what will keep you on the path of life-love the
    Savior and seek His glory alone. Everything that you do to exalt
    yourself will one day bring you the most terrible humiliation.
    Everything that you do out of true love for the Savior, to glorify
    His name, will extend the limits of His eternal kingdom, and
    ultimately result in a much higher place for yourself. Live for
    what is recorded here. Care nothing for what is recorded on earth."
    
    As they walked away I was again being overwhelmed by my own sin.
    The times that I had used people for my own purposes, or even used
    the glorious name of Jesus, to further my own ambitions, or to
    make myself look better, began to cascade down upon me. Here,
    where I could behold the power and glory of the One I had so used,
    it became more repulsive than I thought I could stand. I fell on
    my face in the worst despair I had ever known. After what seemed
    like an eternity of seeing these people and events pass before me,
    I felt the woman lifting me to my feet again. I was overcome by
    her purity, especially as I now felt so evil and corrupt. I had
    the strongest desire to worship her because she was so pure.
    
    "Turn to the Son," she said emphatically. "Your desire to worship
    me, or anyone else at this time, is only an attempt to turn the
    attention away from yourself, and justify yourself by serving what
    you are not. I am pure now because I turned to Him. You need to
    see the corruption that is in your own soul, but then you must not
    dwell on yourself, or seek to justify yourself with dead works,
    but turn to Him." This was said in such genuine love and concern
    that it was impossible to be hurt or offended by it. When she saw
    that I understood, she continued:
    
    "The purity that you saw in me was what my husband first saw in me
    when we were young. I was relatively pure in my motives then, but
    I corrupted his love and my own purity by letting him worship me
    wrongly. You can never become pure just by worshiping one who is
    more pure than you, but only by going beyond them to find for
    yourself the One who has made them pure, and in Whom alone is no
    sin. The more people praised us, and the more we accepted their
    praises, the further we departed from the path of life. Then we
    started living for the praises of men, and to gain power over
    those who would not praise us. That was our demise, and was the
    same for many who are here in the lowest place, but were called to
    be in the highest."
    
    Another man standing close to me explained: "With each encounter,
    a veil is being removed so that you can see Him more clearly. You
    are not changed just by seeing His glory, but by seeing it with an
    unveiled face. Everyone who comes to the true judgments of God walks
    a corridor such as this to meet those who can help them remove
    whatever veils they are still wearing; veils that will distort their
    vision of Him."
    
    I had already absorbed more understanding than I felt like my many
    years of study on earth had given me. I then began to feel that all
    of my study and seeking on earth had only lead me forward at a snail's
    pace. How could many lifetimes prepare me for the judgment? My life
    had already disqualified me more than all of those whom I had met,
    and they barely made it here!
    
    Then another man emerged from the ranks. He had been a contemporary
    of mine, and I did not know that he had died. I had never met him
    on earth, but he had a great ministry which I respected very much.
    Through men that he had trained, thousands had been led to salvation,
    and many great churches had been raised up. He asked if he could
    just embrace me for a minute, and I agreed, feeling a bit awkward.
    When we embraced I felt such love coming from him that a great pain
    that was deep within me stopped hurting. I had become so used to
    the pain that I did not even notice it until it stopped. After he
    released me I told him that his embrace had healed me of something.
    His joy at this was profound. Then he began to tell me why he was
    in the lowest rank in heaven.
    
    "I became so arrogant near the end of my life that I could not
    imagine that the Lord would do anything of significance unless He
    did it through me. I began to touch the Lord's anointed, and do
    His prophets harm. I was selfishly proud when the Lord used one of
    my own disciples, and I became jealous when the Lord moved through
    anyone who was outside of my own ministry. I would search for
    anything that was wrong with them which I could attack. I did not
    know that every time I did this I only demoted myself further."
    
    "I never knew that you had done anything like that," I said,
    surprised. "I incited men under me to investigate others and do
    my dirty work. I had them scour the earth to find any error or
    sin in the life of others to expose them. I became the worst thing
    that a man can become on the earth- a stumbling block who produced
    other stumbling blocks. We sowed fear and division throughout the
    church, all in the name of protecting the truth. In my self-
    righteousness I was headed for perdition. In His great mercy the
    Lord allowed me to be struck by a disease that would bring about a
    slow and humiliating death. Just before I died I came to my senses
    and repented. I am just thankful to be here at all. I may be one
    of the least of His here, but it is much more than I deserve. I
    just could not leave this room until I had a chance to apologize
    to those of you that I so wronged."
    
    "But you never wronged me," I said. "Oh, but I did indeed," he
    replied. "Many of the attacks that came against you were from those
    whom I had agitated and encouraged in their assaults on others.
    Even though I may not have personally carried the attacks out, the
    Lord holds me as responsible as those who did." "I see. Certainly I
    forgive you."
    
    I was already beginning to remember how I had done this same
    thing, even if on a smaller scale. I recalled how I had allowed
    disgruntled former members of a church to spread their poison
    about that church without stopping them. I knew that by just
    allowing them to do this without correcting them I had encouraged
    them to continue. I remember thinking that this was justified
    because of the errors of that church. I then began to remember how
    I had even repeated many of their stories, justifying it by saying
    it was only to enlist prayers for them. Soon a great flood of
    other such incidents began to arise in my heart. Again, I was
    starting to be overwhelmed by the evil and darkness of my own
    soul.
    
    "I, too, have been a stumbling block!" I wailed, dropping again to
    my knees. I knew that I deserved death, that I deserved the worst
    kind of hell. I had never seen such ruthlessness and cruelty as I
    was now seeing in my own heart.
    
    "And we always comforted ourselves by actually thinking that we
    were doing God a favor when we attacked His own children," came
    the understanding voice of this man. "It is good for you to see
    this here, because you can go back. Please warn my disciples of
    their impending doom if they do not repent. Many of them are
    called to be kings here, but if they do not repent they will face
    the worst judgment of all- that of the stumbling blocks. My
    humbling disease was grace from God. When I stood before the
    throne I asked the Lord to send such grace to my disciples. I
    cannot cross back over to them, but He has allowed me this time
    with you. Please forgive and release those who have attacked you.
    They really do not understand that they are doing the work of the
    Accuser. Thank you for forgiving me, but please also forgive them.
    It is in your power to retain sins or cover them with love. I
    entreat you to love those who are now your enemies."
    
    I could hardly hear this man I was so overwhelmed with my own sin.
    This man was so glorious, pure and obviously now had powers that
    were not known on the earth. Yet, he was entreating me with a
    greater humility than I had witnessed before. I felt such love
    coming from him that I could not imagine refusing him, but even
    without the impact of his love, I felt far more guilty than anyone
    could possibly be who was attacking me.
    
    "Certainly I must deserve anything they have done to me, and much
    more," I replied. "That is true, but it is not the point here,"
    he entreated. "Everyone on earth is deserving of the second death,
    but our Savior brought us grace and truth. If we are to do His work
    we must do everything in both grace and truth. Truth without grace
    is what the enemy brings when he comes as an 'angel of light.'"
    
    "If I can be delivered from this maybe I will be able to help
    them," I replied. "But can't you recognized that I am far worse
    than they could possibly be?" "I know that what just passed through
    your mind was bad," he answered, but with a love and grace that was
    profound. I knew that he had now become as concerned for me and my
    condition as he had been for his own disciples.
    
    "This really is heaven," I blurted out. "This really is light and
    truth. How could we who live in such darkness become so proud,
    thinking that we know so much about God? Lord!" I yelled in the
    direction of the throne, "Please let me go and carry this light
    back to earth!"
    
    Immediately the entire host of heaven seemed to stand at
    attention, and I knew that I was the center of their attention. I
    felt so insignificant before just one of these glorious ones, but
    when I knew they were all looking at me, fear came like a tidal
    wave. I felt that there could be no doom like I was about to
    experience. I felt like the greatest enemy of the glory and truth
    that so filled that place. I was too corrupted, I could never
    properly represent such glory and truth. There was no way that I
    could in my corruption convey the reality of the glorious place
    and Presence. I was sure that even Satan had not fallen as far as
    I had from grace. This is hell I thought. There can be no worse
    pain than to be as evil as I am and to know that this kind of
    glory exists. To be banned from here is a torture worse than I
    ever dreamed. No wonder the demons are so angry and demented, I
    thought.
    
    Just when I felt that I was about to be sent to the deepest
    regions of hell, I simply cried "JESUS!" Quickly a peace came over
    me. I knew I had to move on toward the glory again, and somehow I
    had the confidence to do it. I kept moving until I saw a man who I
    considered one of the greatest writers of all time. I had
    considered his depth of insight into the truth to be possibly the
    greatest that I had encountered in all of my studies. "Sir, I have
    always looked forward to this meeting," I almost blurted out. "As
    have I," he replied with genuine sincerity. "I feel that I know you,
    and in your writings I almost felt like you somehow knew me. I think
    that I owe more to you than to anyone else who was not canonized in
    Scripture," I continued.
    
    "You are very gracious," he replied. "But I am sorry that I did
    not serve you better. I was a shallow person, and my writings were
    shallow, and filled with more worldly wisdom than divine truth."
    "Since I have been here, and learned all that I have learned, I
    know that this must be true, but I still think they are some of
    the best that we have on earth," I answered.
    
    "You are right," this famous writer admitted, with sincerity. "It
    is so sad. Everyone here, even those who sit closest to the King,
    would live their lives differently if they had them to live over,
    but I think that I would live mine even more differently than
    most. I was honored by kings, but failed the King of kings. I used
    the great gifts and insights that were given me to draw men more
    to myself and my wisdom than to Him. Besides, I only knew Him by
    the hearing of the hear, which is the way I compelled other men to
    know Him. I made them dependent on me, and others like me.
    
    I turned them more to deductive reasoning than to the Holy Spirit,
    Who I hardly knew. I did not point men to Jesus, but to myself and
    others like me who pretended to know Him. When I beheld Him here,
    I wanted to ground my writings into powder, just as Moses did to
    the golden calf. My mind was my idol, and I wanted everyone to
    worship my mind with me. Your esteem for me does not cause me to
    rejoice. If I had spent as much time seeking to know Him as I did
    seeking to know about Him in order to impress others with my
    knowledge, many of those who are in this lowest of companies would
    be sitting in the throne that was prepared for them, and many
    others would be in this room."
    
    "I know by being here that your appraisal of your work is true,
    but are you not being a little to hard on yourself?" I questioned.
    "Your works fed me spiritually for many years, as I know they have
    multitudes of others." "I am not being too hard on myself. All
    that I have said is true as it was confirmed when I stood before
    the throne. I produced a lot, but I was given more talents than
    almost anyone here, and I buried them beneath my own spiritual
    pride and ambitions. Just as Adam could have carried the whole
    human race into a most glorious future, but by his failure led
    billions of souls into the worst of tragedies, with authority
    comes responsibility. The more authority you are given, the more
    potential for both good and evil you will have.
    
    Those who will rule with Him for the ages will know responsibility
    of the most profound kind. No man stands alone, and every human
    failure, or victory, resonates far beyond our comprehension, even
    to generations to come. The many thousands who I could have led
    properly would have resulted in many more millions here. Anyone
    who understands the true nature of authority would never seek it,
    but only accept it when they know they are yoked with the Lord,
    the only One who can carry authority without stumbling. Never seek
    influence for yourself, but only seek the Lord and be willing to
    take His yoke. My influence did not feed your heart, but rather
    your pride in knowledge."
    
    "How can I know that I am not doing the same?" I asked as I began
    to think of my own writings. "Study to show yourself approved unto
    God, not men," he replied as he walked back into the ranks. Before
    he disappeared he turned and with the slightest smile, offered one
    last bit of advice: "And do not follow me."
    
    In this first multitude I saw many other men and women of God from
    both my own time and history. I stopped and talked to many more. I
    was continually shocked that so many who expected to be in the
    highest positions were in the lowest rank of the kingdom. Many
    shared the same basic story- they all had fallen to the deadly sin
    of pride after their great victories, or fallen to jealousy when
    other men were anointed as much as they were. Others had fallen to
    lust, discouragement, or bitterness near the end of their lives
    and had to be taken before they crossed the line into perdition.
    They all gave me the same warning: the higher the spiritual
    authority that you walk in, the further you can fall if you depart
    from love and humility.
    
                                 (Continued)
    
    

================================================================================
Note 960.8                       The Final Quest                          8 of 9
CSC32::L_DEGROFF                                    226 lines  30-JAN-1997 13:53
                                -< (Continued) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    As I continued toward the judgment seat I began to pass those who
    were of higher rank in the kingdom. After many more veils had been
    stripped away from me by meetings with those who had stumbled over
    the same problems that I had, I began to meet those who had
    overcome. I met couples who had served the Lord and each other
    faithfully to the end. Their glory here was unspeakable, and their
    victory encouraged me that it was possible to stay on the path of
    life, and serve Him in faithfulness. Those who stumbled, stumbled
    in many different ways. Those who prevailed all did it the same
    way- they did not deviate from their devotion to the first and
    greatest commandment- loving the Lord. By this their service was
    done unto Him, not men, not even for spiritual men. These were the
    ones who worshipped the Lamb, and followed Him wherever He went.
    
    When I was still not even half way to the throne, what had been
    the indescribable glory of the first rank now seemed to be the
    outer darkness in comparison to the glory of those I was now
    passing. The greatest beauty on earth would not qualify to be
    found anywhere in heaven. And I was told that this room was just
    the threshold of realms indescribable!
    
    My march to the throne may have taken days, months or even years.
    There was no way to measure time in that place. To my considerable
    discomfort, they all showed great respect to me, not because of
    who I was or anything that I had done, but simply because I was a
    warrior in the battle of the last days. Somehow, through this last
    battle, the glory of God would be revealed in such a way that it
    would be a witness to every power and authority, created or yet to
    be created, for all of eternity. During this battle the glory of
    the cross would be revealed, and the wisdom of God would be known
    in a special way. To be in that battle was to be given one of the
    greatest honors given to those of the race of men.
    
    As I approached the Judgment Seat of Christ, those in the highest
    ranks were also sitting on thrones that were all a part of His
    throne. Even the least of these thrones was more glorious than any
    earthly throne many times over. Some of these were rulers over
    cities on earth who would soon take their place. Others were
    rulers over the affairs of heaven, and others over the affairs of
    the physical creation, such as star systems and galaxies. However,
    it was apparent that those who were given authority over cities
    were esteemed above those who had even been given authority over
    galaxies. The value of a single child was more than a galaxy of
    stars, because the Holy Spirit dwelt in men, and the Lord had
    chosen men as His eternal dwelling place. In the presence of His
    glory the whole earth seemed as insignificant as a speck of dust,
    and yet was so infinitely esteemed that the attention of the whole
    host of heaven was upon it.
    
    Now that I stood before the throne, I felt very much less than a
    speck of dust. Even so, I felt the Holy Spirit upon me in a
    greater way than I ever had. It is was by His power alone that I
    was able to stand. It was here that I truly came to understand His
    ministry as our Comforter. He had led me through the entire journey
    even though I had hardly noticed Him.
    
    The Lord was both more gentle and more terrible than I had ever
    imagined. In Him I saw Wisdom who had accompanied me up the
    mountain, and felt the familiarity of many of my friends on earth.
    I recognized Him as the One I had heard speaking to me many times
    through others. I also recognized Him as the One that I had often
    rejected when He had come to me in others. I saw both a Lion and a
    Lamb, the Sheppard and the Bridegroom, but most of all I saw Him
    here as the Judge.
    
    Even in His awesome presence, the Comforter was so mightily with
    me I was comfortable. It was also apparent that the Lord in no way
    wanted me to be uncomfortable; He only wanted me to know the truth.
    Human words are not adequate to describe either how awesome, or how
    relieving it was to stand before the Lord. I had passed the point
    where I was concerned if the judgment was going to be good or bad;
    I just knew it would be right, and that I could trust my Judge.
    
    At one point the Lord looked toward the galleries of thrones
    around Him. Many were occupied by saints, and many were empty. He
    then said, "These thrones are for the overcomers who have served
    Me faithfully in every generation. My Father and I prepared them
    before the foundation of the world. Are you worthy to sit in one
    of these?"
    
    I remembered what a friend had once said, "When an omniscient God
    asks you a question, it is not because He is seeking information."
    I looked at the thrones. I looked at those who were now seated. I
    could recognize some of the great heroes of the faith, but most of
    those seated I knew had not even been well known on earth. Many I
    knew had been missionaries who had expended their lives in
    obscurity. They had never cared to be remember on earth, but only
    to Him. I was a bit surprised to see some who had been wealthy, or
    rulers who had been faithful with what they had been given. However,
    it seemed that faithful, praying women and mothers occupied more
    thrones than any other single group.
    
    There was no way that I could answer "yes" to the Lord's question
    if I considered myself worthy to sit here. I was not worthy to sit
    in the company of any who were there. I knew I had been given the
    opportunity to run for the greatest prize in heaven or earth, and
    I had failed. I was desperate, but there was still one hope. Even
    though most of my life had been a failure, I knew that I was here
    before I had finished my life on earth. When I confessed that I
    was not worthy, He asked:
    
    "But do you want this seat?" "I do with all of my heart," I responded.
    The Lord then looked at the galleries and said, "Those empty seats
    could have been filled in any generation. I gave the invitation to
    sit here to everyone who has called upon My name. They are still
    available. Now the last battle has come, and many who are last
    shall be first. These seats will be filled before the battle is
    over. Those who will sit here you will know by two things: they
    will wear the mantle of humility, and they will have My likeness.
    You now have the mantle. If you can keep it and do not lose it in
    the battle, when you return you will also have My likeness. Then
    you will be worthy to sit with these, because I will have made you
    worthy. All authority and power has been given to Me, and I alone
    can wield it. You will prevail, and you will be trusted with My
    authority only when you have come to fully abide in Me. Now turn
    and look at My household."
    
    I turned and looked back in the direction I had come from. From
    before His throne I could see the entire room. The spectacle was
    beyond any earthly comparison for its glory. Millions filled the
    ranks. Each individual in the lowest rank was more awesome than an
    army, and I knew had more power. It was far beyond my capacity to
    absorb such a panorama of glory. Even so, I could see the only a
    very small portion of the great room was occupied.
    
    I then looked back at the Lord and was astonished to see tears in
    His eyes. He had wiped the tears away from every eye here, but His
    own. As a tear ran down His cheek he caught it in His hand. He
    then offered it to me.  "This is My cup. Will you drink it with Me?"
    There was no way that I could refuse Him. As the Lord continued to
    look at Me I began to feel His great love. Even as foul as I was
    He still loved me. As undeserving as I was He wanted me to be
    close to Him. Then He said:
    
    "I love all of these with a love that you cannot now understand. I
    also love all who are supposed to be here but did not come. I have
    left the ninety nine to go after the one who was lost. My
    shepherds would not leave the one to go after the ninety nine who
    are still lost. I came to save the lost. Will you share My heart
    to go to save the lost? Will you help to fill this room? Will you
    help to fill these thrones, and every other seat in this hall?
    Will you take up this quest to bring joy to heaven, to Me and to
    My Father? This judgment is for My own household, and My own house
    is not full. The last battle will not be over until My house is
    full. Only then will it be time for us to redeem the earth, and
    remove the evil from My creation. If you drink My cup you will
    love the lost the way that I loved them."
    
    He then took a cup so plain that I was surprised that it even
    existed in a room of such glory, and He placed His tear in it. He
    then gave it to me. I have never tasted anything so bitter. I knew
    that I could in no way drink it all, or even much of it, but I was
    determined to drink as much as I could. The Lord patiently waited
    until I finally erupted into such crying that I felt like
    veritable rivers of tears were flowing from me. I was crying for
    the lost, but even more I was crying for the Lord.
    
    I looked to Him in desperation as I could not take any more of
    this great pain. Then His peace began to fill me and mix with His
    love that I was feeling. Never had I felt anything so wonderful.
    This was the living water that I knew could spring up for
    eternity. Then I felt as if the waters flowing within me caught on
    fire. I began to feel that this fire would consume me if I could
    not begin declaring the majesty of His glory. I had never felt
    such an urge to preach, to worship Him, and to breathe every
    breath that I was given for the sake of His gospel.
    
    "Lord!" I shouted out, forgetting everyone but Him. "I now know
    that this throne of judgment is also the throne of grace, and I
    ask You now for the grace to serve You. Above all things I ask You
    for grace! I ask You for the grace to finish my course. I ask You
    for the grace to love You like this so that I can be delivered
    from the delusions and self-centeredness that so pervert my life.
    I call upon You for salvation from myself and the evil of my own
    heart, and for this love that I now feel to flow continually in my
    heart. I ask You to give me Your heart, Your love. I ask You for
    the grace of the Holy Spirit to convict me of my sin. I ask You
    for the grace of the Holy Spirit to testify of You, as You really
    are. I ask for the grace to testify of all that You have prepared
    for those who come to You. I ask for the grace to be upon me to
    preach the reality of this judgment. I ask for the grace to share
    with those who are called to occupy these empty thrones, to give
    them words of life that will keep them on the path of life, that
    will impart to them the faith to do what they have been called to
    do. Lord, I beg You for this grace."
    
    The Lord then stood up. Then all of those who were seated upon the
    thrones for as far as I could see also stood up. His eyes burned
    with a fire I had not seen before. "You have called upon Me for
    grace. This request I never deny. You shall return, and the Holy
    Spirit shall be with you. Here you have tasted of both My kindness
    and My severity. You must remember both if you are to stay on the
    path of life. The true love of God includes the judgment of God.
    You must know both my kindness and severity or you will fall to
    deception. This is the grace that you have been given here, to
    know both. The conversations you had with your brethren here were
    My grace. Remember them."
    
    He then pointed His sword toward my heart, then my mouth,  then
    my  hands.  When He did this fire came from His sword and burned
    me with a great pain. "This too is grace," He said. "You are but
    one of many who have been prepared for this hour. Preach and write
    about all that you have seen here. What I have said to you say to
    My brethren. Go and call My captains to the last battle. Go and
    defend the poor and the oppressed, the widows and the orphans.
    This is the commission of My captains, and it is where you will
    find them. My children are worth more to Me than the stars in the
    heavens. Feed My lambs. Watch over My little ones. Give the word
    of God to them that they may live. Go to the battle. Go and do not
    retreat. Go quickly for I will come quickly. Obey Me and hasten
    the day of My coming."
    
    A company of angels then came and escorted me away from the
    throne. The leader walked beside me and began to speak.
    "Now that He has stood He will not sit again until the last battle
    is over. He has been seated until the time when His enemies are to
    be put under His feet. The time has now come. The legions of
    angels that have been standing ready since the night of passion
    have now been released upon the earth. The hordes of hell have
    also been released. This is the time that all of creation has been
    waiting for. The great mystery of God will soon be finished. We
    will now fight until the end. We will fight with you and your
    brethren."
    
                                    End
    

================================================================================
Note 960.9                       The Final Quest                          9 of 9
NETCAD::WIEBE "Garth Wiebe"                          74 lines   2-FEB-1997 22:48
                  -< "foolish virgins": Joyner vs. Scripture >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is with sadness that I write this reply.  I read through Mr. Joyner's
vision from beginning to end, and there were a great many things in it
that ministered to me.  The vision was both a source of encouragement
and exhortation that hit home to me in many ways.  I feel that Mr. Joyner
has a deeper appreciation of the more profound truths of the kingdom of 
God than I do, and I have taken to heart many of the points that he made.

Indeed, after reading only a portion of the vision I was tempted to 
reply in here urging all to read this.  But then I came to something 
that has forced me to choose between his vision and the word of God.
Mr. Joyner writes,

"This great multitude here are those whom
the Lord called 'foolish virgins.' We knew the Lord, and trusted in His
cross for deliverance from damnation, but we did not really live for
Him, but for ourselves. We did not keep our vessels filled with the
oil of the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life, but we wasted our lives
on earth." I was really surprised by this, but I also knew that no one
could lie in that place.

"The foolish virgins gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness," I
protested. "And that we did. The grief that we experienced when we
understood how we had so wasted our lives was beyond any grief possible
on earth. The darkness of that grief can only be understood by those
who have experienced it. Such darkness is magnified when it is
revealed next to the glory of the One we failed. You are standing now
among the lowest rank in heaven. There is no greater fools than the
ones who know the great salvation of God, but then go on living for
themselves. To come here and learn the reality of that folly is a grief
beyond what an earthly soul can experience. We are those who suffered
this outer darkness because of this greatest of follies."

In contrast, here is what the scripture says:

MT 25:1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins 
who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. [2] Five of 
them were foolish and five were wise. [3] The foolish ones took their 
lamps but did not take any oil with them. [4] The wise, however, took 
oil in jars along with their lamps. [5] The bridegroom was a long time 
in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

MT 25:6 "At midnight the cry rang out: `Here's the bridegroom! Come out 
to meet him!'

MT 25:7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. [8] The 
foolish ones said to the wise, `Give us some of your oil; our lamps are 
going out.'

MT 25:9 " `No,' they replied, `there may not be enough for both us and 
you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'

MT 25:10 "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the 
bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to 
the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

MT 25:11 "Later the others also came. `Sir! Sir!' they said. `Open the 
door for us!'

MT 25:12 "But he replied, `I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

So Mr. Joyner places the "foolish virgins" of scripture in the kingdom
of heaven, whereas scripture has them shut out of heaven.

These 17 corrupt lines of text, out of some 2500+ total lines of text, 
gives the vision, at best (if we give him the benefit of the doubt in
all other areas) something like 99.5% accuracy against the already-
revealed word of God in the canon of scripture.  But prophecies and
visions from the Lord are not 99.5% accurate.  They are 100% accurate, 
because God is 100% accurate.

Dear readership, we must always be on our guard, and "test everything"
(1 Thess 5:21).

Even writings as beautiful and profound as what we have beheld here.

Hi, Garth.

Before I go on, let me first say I VERY MUCH appreciate the spirit of your
analysis and your heart in sharing what you've found.

| MT 25:7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. [8] The 
| foolish ones said to the wise, `Give us some of your oil; our lamps are 
| going out.'

** Key translation here.  Verb tense quite significant.  The lamps are going
   out, not are gone out.

| MT 25:11 "Later the others also came. `Sir! Sir!' they said. `Open the 
| door for us!'

** We might conclude that the foolish virgins' lamps provided enough light in
   darkness to find more oil, and that the lamps lighted their way back to
   the marriage.  But, the door was shut.

   The question now becomes, what door?  And exactly where are the foolish
   virgins?

| MT 25:12 "But he replied, `I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

** The bridegroom apparently HEARD the foolish virgins in order to reply, "I
   know you not."

   Would you grant merit to examining know in the context of a marriage
   relationship?  For certain, the bridegroom knew his bride, and for certain
   he would know none outside marriage.

| So Mr. Joyner places the "foolish virgins" of scripture in the kingdom
| of heaven, whereas scripture has them shut out of heaven.

** I would ask you to carefully examine the basis for saying, "scripture has
   them shut out of heaven."  I believe there is good support for saying that,
   but I do not believe your conclusion should be dogmatic.  See note 22.24
   for my basis.

| These 17 corrupt lines of text, out of some 2500+ total lines of text, 
| gives the vision, at best (if we give him the benefit of the doubt in
| all other areas) something like 99.5% accuracy against the already-
| revealed word of God in the canon of scripture.  But prophecies and
| visions from the Lord are not 99.5% accurate.  They are 100% accurate, 
| because God is 100% accurate.

** Absolutely no question about God's standard!

   I just do not find Joyner's vision in clear contradiction of God's Word
   on your point.

| Dear readership, we must always be on our guard, and "test everything"
| (1 Thess 5:21).

** Amen and amen!!!  Including our own understanding, especially.  We know
   that there will be strong deception and delusion and great signs and
   wonders in the end time, "insomuch that, if possible, they shall deceive
   the very elect." (Mt.24:24)

| Even writings as beautiful and profound as what we have beheld here.

** We must accept only that which the Holy Spirit commends to our hearts as
   "beautiful and profound."  He is given to lead us into all Truth.  Frankly,
   I've found Joyner's work so powerful as to be overwhelming, and that's what
   gives me pause in light of the above verse.  His vision resonates with my
   spirit to date, and God's Spirit and Word have yet to indicate "corruption."

Again, thanks for the exhortation to "believe not every spirit, but try the
spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into
the world." (1Jn.4:1)

/Wayne

Re: .10  (Wayne)

Please, by all means, try to convince me, because I would be *very* happy to be
proved wrong on this one.

>** I would ask you to carefully examine the basis for saying, "scripture has
>   them shut out of heaven."  I believe there is good support for saying that,
>   but I do not believe your conclusion should be dogmatic.  See note 22.24
>   for my basis.

I read your 22.24, but it seems to me that you and others are over-dissecting
the parable at the expense of the context.

The context is clear to me in reading Jesus' whole sermon (Matt. Ch. 24 and 25)
in answer to his disciples question about his coming and the end of the age.

We have Jesus' discription of the last days, culminating in his glorious 
coming in 24:1-31.  Then from 24:31 to 25:46 we hear illustration after 
illustration about being ready for it.  There are the coming "days of Noah,"
people being taken vs. left behind, the thief breaking into the house, the
"faithful and wise servant," the ten virgins, the parable of the talents, and
finally, the sheep and the goats. 

The illustrations in Matt. 24 and 25 are harmonious and consistent with each
other.  Those caught in the Flood were destroyed.  The un-faithful and un-wise
servants were cut to pieces and assigned a place with the hypocrites, where
there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  The foolish virgins were shut
out by the bridegroom who said he didn't know them and would not open the door
for them. The "wicked, worthless" man who buried his talent had his one talent
confiscated and was thrown into the darkness, where there would be weeping and
gnashing of teeth.  And finally, the goats were told, "Depart from me, you who
are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." 

The phrase "I don't know you" is used elsewhere as follows:

"Someone asked him, 'Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?'  He said
to them, 'Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I
tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.  Once the owner of the
house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and
pleading, "Sir, open the door for us."  But he will answer, "I don't know you
or where you come from."  Then you will say, "We ate and drank with you, and 
you taught in our streets."  But he will reply, "I don't know you or where you
come from.  Away from me, all you evildoers!"'"  (Luke 13:23-27)

"'Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.  Many will say to
me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your
name drive out demons and perform many miracles?"  Then I will tell them
plainly, "I never knew you.  Away from me, you evildoers!"'"  (Matt 7:21-23)

So I still maintain that it is Bible vs. Joyner on 17 lines of his vision.

Hi, Garth.

| Please, by all means, try to convince me, because I would be *very* happy to
| be proved wrong on this one.

** I know better than to try convincing you of anything, let alone trying to
   prove you wrong.  If, in fact, you'd be "*very* happy" to be wrong, then
   why would I say more? :-)

   I asked you to carefully examine your basis, and, if you did in light of
   what I said, then you've done what I asked.

| I read your 22.24, but it seems to me that you and others are over-dissecting
| the parable at the expense of the context.

** Perhaps.  But I did say understanding parables could be problematic beyond
   the central truth, and I thought I was careful with the context in pointing
   out things implied and specified.

   Unger suggests that "there is a wide field open to the discernment of the
   interpreter," and submits the following "restraints upon the mere fertility
   of imagination:"

    1) Analogies must be real, not arbitrary;

    2) Parables are to be considered as parts of a whole, and the interpreta-
       tion of one is not to override or encroach upon the lessons taught by
       others;

    3) Direct teaching of Christ presents the standard to which all our
       interpretations are to be referred, and by which they are to be
       measured; and

    4) A parable may not be made the first source of doctrine.  Doctrines
       otherwise and already grounded may be illustrated, or indeed further
       confirmed by parables, but it is not allowable to constitute
       doctrine first by their aid.

   On the 2nd point you and I seem to have different perspectives.  Whereas
   you use the context and flow to interpret what is not said explicitly, I
   suggested that each parable addresses a different part of the whole, thus
   emphasizing what is said explicitly.

| The context is clear to me in reading Jesus' whole sermon (Matt. Ch. 24 and
| 25) in answer to his disciples question about his coming and the end of the
| age.

** To me, also.  Again, I just pointed out that the phrase "cast out" was
   not used of the virgins, rather the door was shut to the marriage.

| So I still maintain that it is Bible vs. Joyner on 17 lines of his vision.

** Okee, dokee.  However, you've not convinced me that Joyner is wrong on
   this point.

   By the way, who is being invited into the holy city by the Spirit and the
   bride in Rev.22:17?  Who will "take the water of life freely?"

/Wayne

    For the record, I "see" great joy in heaven, in both observation and
    participation.  My studied opinion to date is that not all in heaven will
    particpate, yet all will experience great joy in observing (and not
    being separated from) the glory of the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb.
    
    And I would challenge you in the same way I challenge myself:  Would you
    desire that others reject all of what you say because they can find error
    in part?
    
    My hope is that people examine my words, chaff and grain together, in
    light of God's Word and Spirit, keep what is worth keeping, and blow
    the rest away with grace.
    
    Garth, I doubt you appreciate how much I wanted to NOT disagree with
    you, but I was nonetheless impelled to do so.  I hope we share the goal
    of encouraging and exhorting all readers to themselves test words from
    earthen vessels with the Scriptures.
    
    Your co-laborer in Him,
    
    /Wayne  

    Brothers and Sisters,
    
    I have edited the Vision to correct obvious spelling and grammatical 
    errors, to update the MorningStar reproduction policy, and to add
    the introduction by Rick Joyner which was provided by Paul.  Anyone
    wishing to receive an e-mail copy may do so by sending your e-mail
    request to my e-mail address.
    
    Larry

Re: .13  (Wayne)

>    And I would challenge you in the same way I challenge myself:  Would you
>    desire that others reject all of what you say because they can find error
>    in part?
    
No, and neither did I "reject" all that Mr. Joyner said, as I testified in the
first paragraph of reply 960.9/18.9.  But prophecies/visions/revelations from
God are 100% accurate, because God is 100% accurate.  Since I found one thing
that I could test against scripture to be flawed, I now cannot rely on any of
the things that he said which couldn't be tested against scripture.  I will now
proceed on the assumption that the vision was of human, and not divine origin. 

    re .15
    
      prophecies/visions/revelations from God are 100% accurate, because
      God is 100% accurate.  Since I found one thing that I could test
      against scripture to be flawed, I now cannot rely on any of thethings
      that he said which couldn't be tested against scripture.  I will now
      proceed on the assumption that the vision was of human, and not divine
      origin.
    
    Perhaps the prophecy as God gave it was 100% accurate but we are just
    clay vessels.  Its been my experience that sometime we distort the
    original message somewhat when we try to comprehend it and present it. 
    In my experience, sometimes its because I just can't grasp the whole
    depth of it because its beyond my current comprehension.  Sometimes its
    because I add assumptions, I tie what I heard to other things and
    assume that they went together.  Things like that may distort the pure
    message.  
    
    One time a woman was praying over me.  She was praying that God would
    release the anger in me toward a particular person and unite us.  This
    just didn't match with my spirit but in the past this person has
    usually been accurate.  I was very confused and started praying to see
    the truth behind this message.  I then clearly saw that I was indeed angry
    at this person, but the part about us being united was not in the
    message from God.  She had just asssumed that the anger was what was
    keeping us apart.  However this wasn't true.   I saw clearly what the
    anger was and it wasn't related, but it was released.  Isn't God neat?!
                                                                          
    It was interesting to see how a pure message could be distorted like
    this so easily by us mere humans.
    
    
    
    Jill
     

    
>    Perhaps the prophecy as God gave it was 100% accurate but we are just
>    clay vessels.  Its been my experience that sometime we distort the
     
    
    
     If this is the case, then the accuracy of the prophecies contained 
     within the Bible, if not the entire Bible, is suspect.





 Jim     

| No, and neither did I "reject" all that Mr. Joyner said, as I testified in the
| first paragraph of reply 960.9/18.9.  But prophecies/visions/revelations from
| God are 100% accurate, because God is 100% accurate.  Since I found one thing
| that I could test against scripture to be flawed, I now cannot rely on any of
| the things that he said which couldn't be tested against scripture.  I will
| now proceed on the assumption that the vision was of human, and not divine
| origin.

** You said much of Joyner's vision "ministered" to you.  Yet you came to
   conclude that you could not commend Joyner's vision to others because you
   found a flaw.

   That begs a few questions:  Exactly how did Joyner's vision minister to you?
   Were your eyes directed away from Jesus?  Was eternal Truth somehow
   diminished?  How did you determine that your interpretation of Scripture was
   correct in order to find Joyner in error, i.e., how is Truth commended to
   your heart?  Are you suggesting that this particular flaw in Joyner's vision
   says foolishness is okay?  Does Joyner somewhere present his vision as
   superceding or supplementing Scripture?

   But, I wholeheartedly agree we can rely on NOTHING that cannot be tested
   against Scripture.

   If you are fully convinced that your understanding of the parable of the
   ten virgins is correct and Joyner is wrong, then so be it.  I just do not
   see basis for dogmatism around your interpretation of this parable.

Re: .18  (Wayne)

Before I answer your questions in .18, let's take another look at the
"foolish virgin" dialogue in Mr. Joyner's vision.  I want to point out
to you an error that does not depend on the Matt 24-25 context:

>"How could you be the least?" I asked with disbelief. "There is an
>aristocracy here. The rewards for our earthly lives are the eternal
>positions that we have here. This great multitude here are those whom
>the Lord called 'foolish virgins.' We knew the Lord, and trusted in His
>cross for deliverance from damnation, but we did not really live for
>Him, but for ourselves. We did not keep our vessels filled with the
>oil of the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life, but we wasted our lives
>on earth." I was really surprised by this, but I also knew that no one
>could lie in that place.
>
>"The foolish virgins gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness," I 
>protested. "And that we did. The grief that we experienced when we

Let's stop right here.  The person with whom Mr. Joyner is having his
dialogue identifies himself as one of "those whom the Lord called 
'foolish virgins.'"  Mr. Joyner "protests" by saying "The foolish virgins
gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness."  Then the individual affirms
Mr. Joyners recollection of the parable and goes on to elaborate on that
very point.

Where within the parable does it say that the "foolish virgins" "gnashed
their teeth in the outer darkness?"

| Where within the parable does it say that the "foolish virgins" "gnashed
| their teeth in the outer darkness?"

** Nowhere!  You have rightly identified the point that, were I inclined to
   find fault, I would question.

   In note 22.24 I said:

   "I submit that the central truth of this parable is preparation and
   watchfulness.  Those who go forth to meet Jesus, but without counting the
   cost and gathering available provisions, will not see Him when He comes to
   receive His bride, let alone be His bride.  That is the explicit teaching.
   All else is implicit.  The conclusion that the five foolish virgins were
   cast into outer darkness is implicit at best!  Note that only the
   "unprofitable servant" in the subsequent parable of the talents was
   explicitly cast into outer darkness, and only the goats on the left were
   explicitly sent into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his
   angels."

   The Scriptural record of Jesus' parable does not say the five foolish
   virgins "gnashed their teeth in outer darkness."  We could say, though, if
   they were in outer darkness, then they were likely gnashing their teeth as
   the Scripture describes others in outer darkness doing.  But, then we need
   to examine the basis for seeing outer darkness in the kingdom of heaven.
   That I personally find more problematic, and here Joyner's vision seems to
   me on shaky ground.

   So, seeing the foolish virgins in outer darkness is speculation, and seeing
   them either "safely" in or shut out of the kingdom of heaven is speculation,
   too.  I believe there is support for either view.  But, there can be no
   doubt that the foolish virgins were shut out of the marriage.

   Then the question becomes, is only the bride in the kingdom of heaven?  I
   do not believe the parable of the ten virgins was intended to answer that
   question.  Other Scripture must be brought to bear.  And Joyner's specula-
   tion, in my opinion, neither contradicts nor violates Scripture that might
   give such insight, and this is why I see value in examining the virgins'
   lamps, oil and vessels.

   My bottom-line:  Seeing/saying things that Scripture does not explicitly
   show/say is dangerous.  If something is seen/said beyond Scripture, then
   truth can only be validated, not verified, by finding no contradiction with
   the plain teaching of Scripture.  The better way, in my opinion, is to see
   truth verified by compliance with Scripture.

   And apart from the Holy Spirit, we can neither validate nor verify Truth.
   The test for truth in Joyner's vision to me is, did I see some things that I
   hadn't seen before, and, upon testing what I now "see" against Scripture, is
   truth commended to, or sealed in, my heart by the Holy Spirit.

Re: .20  (Wayne)

>| Where within the parable does it say that the "foolish virgins" "gnashed
>| their teeth in the outer darkness?"
>
>** Nowhere!  You have rightly identified the point that, were I inclined to
>   find fault, I would question.

But why are you not inclinded to find fault?  The truth of the matter is
that Mr. Joyner erred, and by affirming what Mr. Joyner said, so did the
character posing as a (former) "foolish virgin" in his story.

Can we at least agree on that point?

| But why are you not inclinded to find fault?  The truth of the matter is
| that Mr. Joyner erred, and by affirming what Mr. Joyner said, so did the
| character posing as a (former) "foolish virgin" in his story.

** Because I can't explicitly prove that the foolish virgins weren't in
   outer darkness, any more than Joyner can prove that they were.  Again,
   the parable says "the door was shut" before the foolish virgins
   returned.  We know the foolish virgins were not in the marriage.  Where
   that left the foolish virgins is open to speculation.

| Can we at least agree on that point?

** I would agree that if the foolish virgins in fact were in outer darkness,
   then they were not in the kingdom of light.

   Again, my problem is seeing outer darkness in the kingdom of heaven.  Had
   you targeted the inconsistency of seeing the foolish virgins in outer
   darkness yet in the kingdom of heaven, rather than Joyner's seeing the
   foolish virgins in the kingdom versus your seeing them shut out of the
   kingdom, then I would have been inclined to agree. :-)

Re: .22  (Wayne)

You misunderstand what I am driving at.

Joyner misquoted a passage of the Bible, and the character of his story
accepted his misquote.

The parable of the "foolish virgins" does not document them  "gnashing 
their teeth in the outer darkness."

    That being your point, then I'm inclined to agree.

Re: .24  (Wayne)

>    That being your point, then I'm inclined to agree.

So you agree that there is at least one error in the story.

Now, from your other responses and personal e-mail, I see that we are 
judging by two different levels of strictness because I see the vision
as a claim to God-breathed inspiration, whereas you see it as a message
as though from a learned and respected pastor giving a sermon on Sunday
morning.  We both agree that the former leaves no room for error, whereas 
the latter should give a person some allowance for error on minor points
of contention.

So I propose that we must resolve the inspiration issue as the next order
of business.

I considered it a claim to inspiration for the following reasons:  First,
he said he "received" the "panoramic dream and vision".  He did not say
he made it up.  Second, we can infer that it was of (alleged) supernatural
origin, because he was (allegedly) transported into a spiritual realm where
he (allegedly) witnessed and participated in events occurring in that realm. 
Particularly, he (allegedly) had conversations with persons in that realm,
including angelic beings and even the Lord Jesus himself. 

This was not a case like John Bunyan writing "The Pilgrim's Progress," or
me writing "The Parable of the Candle."  This was a case like the Apostle John
writing the book of Revelation. 

How do you see it, and why?

| So you agree that there is at least one error in the story.

** Yes.

| Now, from your other responses and personal e-mail, I see that we are 
| judging by two different levels of strictness because I see the vision
| as a claim to God-breathed inspiration, whereas you see it as a message
| as though from a learned and respected pastor giving a sermon on Sunday
| morning.  We both agree that the former leaves no room for error, whereas 
| the latter should give a person some allowance for error on minor points
| of contention.

** Actually, I said the following to you in my e-mail:

   I was personally moved by Joyner's vision.  However, I in no way regarded
   his vision as supplementing Scripture.  In other words, I experienced
   Joyner's vision as I would the preaching or teaching of another gifted
   member of Christ's body.  Not all preaching and teaching is 100% accurate,
   but God chooses to reveal Himself through earthen vessels nonetheless.  My
   pastor's understanding differs from mine occasionally, but I receive my
   pastor as God's shepherd for me and try to see points of disagreement as
   opportunity to more fully "apprehend that for which also I am apprehended
   of Christ Jesus."

   That's what I mean by not being inclined to find fault.  Ultimately, I
   saw Joyner's vision from God no differently than I see my own understanding
   of Scripture through the Holy Spirit.

   Now, for those who would present themselves as extra-Biblical prophets,
   then there is no room for error.  Absolutely nothing they say can contra-
   dict Scripture.  Does Joyner posture himself as revealing truth not found
   in the Bible?  If so, I wasn't aware.  As I said, I found Joyner's imagery
   so powerful as to be overwhelming at times, and my general impression was
   of "feeling" a deeper appreciation for God's written Word, and a greater
   love for Him and His family.

| So I propose that we must resolve the inspiration issue as the next order
| of business.

** Agreed.  As I stated above, I wasn't aware that Joyner had postured himself
   as revealing truth outside the written Word of God.

| I considered it a claim to inspiration for the following reasons:  First,
| he said he "received" the "panoramic dream and vision".  He did not say
| he made it up.  Second, we can infer that it was of (alleged) supernatural
| origin, because he was (allegedly) transported into a spiritual realm where
| he (allegedly) witnessed and participated in events occurring in that realm. 
| Particularly, he (allegedly) had conversations with persons in that realm,
| including angelic beings and even the Lord Jesus himself.

** I don't have the book.  Did Joyner claim this therein?

| This was not a case like John Bunyan writing "The Pilgrim's Progress," or
| me writing "The Parable of the Candle."  This was a case like the Apostle John
| writing the book of Revelation.

** If Joyner in fact said what you said he said in the way you said he said
   it, then, yes, he would appear to be claiming an experience and authority
   similar to the Apostle John's.  If so, then there is no room for error
   versus Truth already revealed.

| How do you see it, and why?

** Joyner said, "This is a panoramic dream and vision I received in early
   1995. This is obviously allegorical, as are most dreams and visions. I have
   tried to be faithful to what I actually saw and experienced."

   I read "tried to be faithful" as Joyner's recognition that he might not
   have been.  And that he was trying to capture imagery in words, a process
   I've always found difficult, at best.

   In other words, I saw Joyner qualifying his vision in the same way I might
   qualify my own understanding of Scripture in saying, "To the best of my
   ability by God's grace, I've tried to accurately share what the Word and the
   Spirit have shown me."

   I gave Joyner the benefit of my doubt as I submitted my impressions to the
   Holy Spirit.

    
    From:          Pam Clark Ministries <[email protected]>
    Reply-to:      [email protected]
    Subject:       Re: Prophetic guidelines
    Edited by:     Larry De Groff
    
                                Prophetic Guidelines
    
    1.  Does the Lord tell a prophet who to prophesy to?
    2.  Is there a time limit on the prophesy received?
    3.  Is one method of prophesying better than another?
    4.  what is the test of a true prophesy?
    
    Romans 12:4-6 says, "...All the members do not have the same function,
    so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of
    one another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is
    given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in
    proportion
    to our faith."
    
    The key phrase here is "in proportion to our faith,"  as it relates to
    the questions above.
    
    Prophesying occurs in people in many different ways.  There are Greek
    words to describe this, but in essence, sometimes it "bubbles up"
    inside a person.  Sometimes the Spirit overshadows someone and they feel
    compelled.  (But the Bible also says that the spirit of the prophet is
    subject to the prophet which means they can control their actions and
    are responsible for them, be it obedience that may invite persecution or
    error that can invite the same, but for different reasons.)  Some see
    visions and have dreams.
    
    Sometimes it is a "fire shut up in our bones" which means that we are
    convicted beyond our natural motivations.  Usually this type of "fire"
    would indicate a calling to the office of prophet (rather than the gift
    of prophesying) because it is a life cause, rather than a word for a
    season.  If an office calling, that also can be received in a number
    of ways- usually it is a direct, understood call from God (in other
    words, they heard it from God) or a gift so evident and consistent that
    everyone agrees the person is motivated prophetically by God.
    
    A person with the gift of prophesying usually has a word of edification,
    comfort, or exhortation. (I Cor. 14:3)  "But he who prophesies speaks
    edification and exhortation and comfort to men."  Usually, what is
    prophesied is an appropriate Scripture which applies positively to a
    given situation.
    
    Often, people who are intercessors and are banging on the door of God
    (ask, seek and knock and keep on) will get key words from God.  They
    labor over these words, imploring Him for His will to be done.  God
    rewards their faithfulness with these words but that does not mean they
    are prophets.  These words are usually confirmation words.  They can be
    used for guidance, but only as confirmation of that which is already
    in one's spirit, bearing witness with the Spirit of God.  All true
    prophets are intercessors but not all intercessors are prophets.  Many
    are prophetic intercessors.
    
    A true, called prophet will often do less prophesying than one who has
    the gift of prophesying.  If someone prophesies frequently, they
    probably have the "gift of prophesying" rather than an office call.
    Because of the heavy price one must pay for the "office call", many are
    reluctant to announce to the world that they are prophets.  If one is
    called as a prophet, they can never renounce this call- it is a
    lifetime assignment and ministry gift.  The gift of prophet is just as
    valid as the gift (or call) of pastor, teacher and evangelist.
    
    Wisdom is the primary evidence of the office of prophet.  The words they
    speak contain insight into spiritual things that will "turn the corner"
    on a situation and will edify.  Often, these words call for repentance
    to the will of God and to His ethics and Word (and not to the will of
    man and what might be his project).  Since true discernment can only come
    by the Spirit (spiritual things are spiritually discerned) and because 
    God's Word is a Living Word, scripture is important for discovering
    error, but it cannot be a  substitute for spiritual discernment,
    especially in those areas where scripture is silent or ambiguous.
    
    Some prophets are very accurate in their foretelling.  This was a sign
    in the Old Testament that the words they spoke were from God.  Prophets
    today both foretell (future events) and forthtell.  When they forthtell,
    they set forth a standard(s) of God which can then be used by individuals
    to "see in the Spirit" where they need to be.  Today we have the Bible
    and the "five fold ministry".  We have the Holy Spirit who dwells within
    every born again believer.  Today, "Christ in us" is our hope of glory.
    That is the difference between Old Testament prophets and and New
    Testament prophets and tests of prophesy.  Today, God speaks to us by
    His Spirit within us.  The Spirit and the Word both bears witness with
    our own spirit that what we receive is truth!  Where scripture is silent
    concerning a truth received, we still have the testimony of at least
    two witnesses, our spirit and the Holy Spirit which still meets the
    biblical standard of two or more witnesses.
                                                                       
    When someone gives a word, it should first of all line up with the
    Bible.  If someone says, "You are going to do such and such or by
    a certain date this event will happen, and especially if it is not a
    good thing that is to happen, you have every right to search the Word
    of God to validate the prophesy and to oppose it if it does not
    conform.
    
    You do not have to receive a word that hinders your walk with God.
    There are many things in life that God gives us choice about.  For
    example, No one can make you give money or force you into marriage
    (legally)- these are two common areas where people get snared.  God
    may confirm these things and it may be his perfect will for you, but
    He will not overpower your will on these issues.
    
    Prophets are not perfect.  If they have the gift or call to
    prophesy, the power of the gift is for the benefit of the Body and is
    exhibited according to their faith.  Is is possible to be deceived by
    a prophet's words, or ones own thoughts, if we consider prophets to
    be perfect.  If we do so, we are in effect, making the prophet an idol
    or diviner.  This is an abomination to God and His Word says that He
    will allow individuals who do this to be deceived.  God wants us to
    look to Him, individually, and "in spirit" for He is spirit and is 
    worshipped in spirit and in truth.
    
    Lastly, the burden of the prophecy is on the prophesier.  If someone
    says someone is going to be healed, then the burden of proof of that
    prophesy is on the prophesier, not on the person to whom it was told.
    It is wrong and incorrect to place the burden on the one prophesied to.
    Again, the burden is on the prophet.  A prophecy is a burden of the
    will of the God.  It can be directed individually to a person or a
    group, and should be presented as an offering (or a gift) to that
    person- not forced.  If done properly, it can be received as a gift
    with great thanksgiving to God.
    
    The Lord's blessing be abundantly upon you,
    
    Pam Clark
                                     

Re: .26  (Wayne)

You misunderstood me again.  All I know about Mr. Joyner and his vision I
learned from this note 960/18, so I know exactly as much as you do.  I
concluded what I did based solely on reading the manuscript of his vision
experience posted at the beginning of this topic.

I fail to see how you can come to a different conclusion than I.  He says
he "received" a vision.  That he says he "tried" to be faithful to it is
immaterial.  His vision documents what the Lord Jesus (i.e. God) said to him,
among many other things.  His vision contains revelations that are not found
in the bible.  I had hoped that the vision was God-breathed.  But since it has
an error in it, I conclude that it was not.  All the revelations that are not
redundant to scripture are now open to suspicion, unless they are otherwise
intuitively obvious.

I have an idea.  Why don't we *ask* him.

Larry, can you get us his telephone number or e-mail or postal address?

| You misunderstood me again.  All I know about Mr. Joyner and his vision I
| learned from this note 960/18, so I know exactly as much as you do.  I
| concluded what I did based solely on reading the manuscript of his vision
| experience posted at the beginning of this topic.

** Ah, okay.  You tricked me! :-) You used the word allege which means to
   assert positively, or declare.  I was trying to examine what Joyner actually
   said, and assumed you were doing the same, i.e., quoting him.

| I fail to see how you can come to a different conclusion than I.  He says
| he "received" a vision.  That he says he "tried" to be faithful to it is
| immaterial.  His vision documents what the Lord Jesus (i.e. God) said to him,
| among many other things.  His vision contains revelations that are not found
| in the bible.  I had hoped that the vision was God-breathed.  But since it has
| an error in it, I conclude that it was not.  All the revelations that are not
| redundant to scripture are now open to suspicion, unless they are otherwise
| intuitively obvious.

** If you could see how I can come to a different conclusion than you, then
   we wouldn't be arguing, would we? :-)  I'm trying mightily to share how I
   came to a different conclusion, and I fail to see why you cannot see how
   a different conclusion than yours is at least viable.

   Let me repeat:  I saw Joyner's being given a vision no differently than
   my being given understanding.  And I thus was not expecting to see words
   without error, and thus was not particularly inclined to look for that which
   I assumed would be present.

   Joyner said, "If you hear the Lord's voice through this vision, do not
   harden your heart.  Put on the whole armor of God, and prepare for the
   battle."  God spoke to me through this vision, and what I saw/heard was
   commended to my heart as truth by the Spirit and the Word.  What I came
   away with was a sense of Joyner's exhortation to "put on the whole armor
   of God, and prepare for the battle."  I in no way took Joyner's vision as
   the authoritative detailed description of the battle, rather as provocative
   insight into how the battle might be fought and how the glory to be
   revealed might appear.

   But, I was perhaps remiss in not going through Joyner's account with a
   fine toothed comb.  All I can say is that I was not impelled to do so
   because I was not impressed that Joyner shared his vision as an authori-
   tative revelation.

| I have an idea.  Why don't we *ask* him.

** That is a great idea.  What exactly shall we ask him?  I would find Joyner's
   answers to the following questions helpful:  "How do you know your vision
   was from the Lord?"; "Do you believe your written account of the vision is
   without error?; and "How can we objectively validate or verify truth in your
   vision?"

So, are we done until such time as we've heard straight from Joyner's mouth?

    I thought someone said Joyner had died????

    Larry, I very much appreciated your entry on "Prophetic Guidelines."
    Thank you.
    
    By the way, who is Pam Clark?
    
    /Wayne

    Garth,
    
    Sent an e-mail to MorningStar Publications several days ago, as soon
    as your question became clear.  Received the following from the
    Managing Editor, but still awaiting an answer from Rick Joyner:
    
        #220        10-FEB-1997 09:48:55.27                                    
    MAIL
    From:   SMTP%"[email protected]"
    To:     [email protected]
    CC:
    Subj:   Re: The Hordes of Hell Are Marching
    
    Dear Larry:
    
    Thanks for your e-mail. I don't have a specific answer about the foolish
    virgins, but will pass on your note to Rick.
    
    The "outer darkness" reference indeed is not spelled out in Scripture,
    but can possibly be implied from the fact that in every other place where
    people are shut out of the kingdom, they end up in outer darkness. If you
    are not able to enter in to the kingdom with Jesus, where else is there?
    And what else can a person do in outer darkness but gnash his teeth?
    
    These are just personal observations. It may not be possible to
    conclusively prove to everyone's satisfaction that the foolish virgins
    ended up in outer darkness, but that is what Rick saw in his vision and
    I believe the vision is consistent with what can be read between the
    lines in Matthew 25.
    
    Thanks for your inquiry.
    
    In Christ,
    Jim Buchan
    [email protected]
    
    As a personal note, Garth, I do not share your concerns, but I will in
    every way possible try to help you receive what God has for you in the
    things which I post.  My hope is that you will be able to see that the
    bible is a beautiful window through which we glimpse the likeness of
    God, but no matter how hard we press our face against the glass, we
    will never know God unless we are willing to reach through it to place
    our hand in His.  For has He not said, "My righteous ones shall live
    by faith;" and again, "without faith it is impossible to please Him."
    
    Larry
         

    Wayne,
    
    Hope this answers your question concerning Pam Clark:
    
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    Larry

    Now that would be a problem in terms of settling the issue between
    Garth and me, or at least my debate with Garth! :-(
    
    Regardless, the bottom-line remains: Test the spirit against the Word.
    
    If Joyner is dead, and we have no way to establish what he actually
    said about himself and his vision, then I would wholeheartedly join
    with Garth to say that if any part of an alleged "new" revelation
    contradicts what the Spirit has made plain in Scripture, then
    EVERYTHING not explicitly defensible with Scripture is suspect.
    
    Sola Scriptura.

Joyner is just fine, unless he died suddenly and unexpectedly in the last
couple of weeks.  And given that the person in the "Morningstar" office,
where Rick is one of the principles, said he'd pass this question on to him,
that seems extremely unlikely.

Paul

Hi, Larry.

Thanks for your own time and concern in this matter.

Now, Jim Buchan's reply has given me pause and reinforces the need to hear
straight from Rick Joyner's mouth.  Specifically:
    
|   The "outer darkness" reference indeed is not spelled out in Scripture,
|   but can possibly be implied from the fact that in every other place where
|   people are shut out of the kingdom, they end up in outer darkness. If you
|   are not able to enter in to the kingdom with Jesus, where else is there?
|   And what else can a person do in outer darkness but gnash his teeth?

** Did not Joyner see the foolish virgins in outer darkness in the kingdom,
   i.e., talked with and stood "among the lowest rank in heaven?"

   Ah, but then according to the words of the foolish virgins in Joyner's
   vision, "we did <gnash our teeth in outer darkness>. The grief that we
   experienced when we understood how we had so wasted our lives was beyond
   any grief possible on earth. The darkness of that grief can only be
   understood by those who have experienced it. Such darkness is magnified
   when it is revealed next to the glory of the One we failed."  Note the
   verbs in the past tense.

   The "foolish virgins" go on to say, "You are standing now among the lowest
   rank in heaven."  This is present tense, and we need not see the foolish
   virgins remaining in outer darkness, and we do not need see outer darkness
   in the kingdom of heaven.

   But, the question now becomes, "Can/will some people be delivered from
   outer darkness, given that outer darkness seems different from the 'ever-
   lasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels'?"

   Most anything can be read "between the lines," but whatever is read between
   the lines must not contradict other Scripture.

   Again, the problem for me would be if Joyner saw outer darkness in the
   kingdom.

/Wayne

Re: .29  (Wayne)

>| I have an idea.  Why don't we *ask* him.
>
> ** That is a great idea.  What exactly shall we ask him?  I would find
> Joyner's answers to the following questions helpful:  "How do you know your
> vision was from the Lord?"; "Do you believe your written account of the
> vision is without error?; and "How can we objectively validate or verify
> truth in your vision?" 
>
>So, are we done until such time as we've heard straight from Joyner's mouth?

Yes, we are done until we've heard from Joyner.

Larry, if it is not too much trouble, could you forward Wayne's above
questions to Mr. Joyner as well?  Please give him some indication of
the earnestness of our inquiries (i.e. we are not on a witch-hunt, but only
desire to handle the vision commensurate with its level of inspiration.)

I would add the following question also:  "Very briefly, can you describe
the circumstances under which you "received" the vision (i.e. were you asleep,
caught in a trance, in prayer, or what?)

Thanks.

    Hi, Larry.
    
    Any word from Rick Joyner yet?
    
    /Wayne

    Hi Wayne,
    
    No word yet.  Will post as soon as it is received.
    
    Thanks for the heads up.
    
    Larry

    Hi, Larry.
    
    Any word yet?
    
    I don't want the apparent disagreement between Garth and me to remain,
    if possible.  If Joyner claims to be revealing inspired and inerrant
    truth, then Garth and I are in complete agreement.
    
    Thanks.
    
    /Wayne

    Wayne,
    
    Note 18.0 
    
    On February the 16th, 1995, I was given a dream in which I saw a great
    army from hell that had been released against the church.  Two days
    later I was given a vision in which I saw this diabolical horde again,
    but in much greater detail.
    
    This battle is already beginning to rage.  Dreams and visions are
    usually metaphorical, and this one definitely is.  Even so, what it
    represents is real, and is happening now.  It was for this reason I
    decided to share it in this abbreviated form, even though it may at
    times seem incomplete.  If you hear the Lord's voice through this
    vision, do not harden your heart.
    
    Note 18.1
    
    This is a panoramic dream and vision I received in early 1995.
    This is obviously allegorical, as are most dreams and visions. I
    have tried to be faithful to what I actually saw and experienced.
    
    In the absence of a response from Rick Joyner, let me offer the 
    following:
    
    1.  Joyner makes no claims that this vision is either inspired or
    inerrant.
    
    2.  More importantly, just as the Pharisees searched the scriptures
    for information about the Messiah and did not recognize Christ, so
    may believers in these last days search the scriptures for verifica-
    tion of the coming move of God and not see it.  Spiritual things
    are spiritually discerned-  I cannot emphasize this enough.  There
    is no substitute for biblical knowledge, but knowledge alone will
    not be enough.  We MUST become spiritual believers- able to hear
    the voice of the Holy Spirit as well as His written Word.  This 
    relationship must be developed beyond feelings of burden and con-
    viction of sin to also include the receiving of wisdom when we ask
    for it.
    
    3.  This vision contains much wisdom, but it also contains elements
    which cannot be verified by scripture.  The spiritual man will know
    the difference and will separate the wheat from the chaff.
    
    Larry
     

    Hi, Larry.
    
    As I've said before, my impression also is that Joyner makes no claims
    that his vision was either inspired or inerrant.  On that basis, I
    found Joyner's word pictures very moving.
    
    Garth, on the other hand, was impressed that Joyner's vision was
    presented as inspired, and if inspired, then inerrant.
    
    I thought Joyner's response to our direct question would clarify his
    understanding and intent.
    
    Again, if Joyner's vision is postured as neither inspired nor inerrant
    in the sense of Holy Writ, then I wholeheartedly agree with your
    offering.
    
    My discomfort remains with the deadlock of being unable to resolve the
    difference between Garth's and my impressions.  We hoped hearing
    straight from Joyner's own mouth would break the deadlock.
    
    /Wayne

Re: .41  (Larry DeGroff)
    
>    In the absence of a response from Rick Joyner, let me offer the 
>    following:

As Wayne indicated, we need a response from Mr. Joyner.  It is of limited
value for us to debate what we think his intentions were when the man is
alive and potentially reachable.  Is there any more information that would
allow us to find his address or telephone number using www.555-1212.com
or some other search engine?
    
>    1.  Joyner makes no claims that this vision is either inspired or
>    inerrant.

And neither did most of the prophets of holy writ.  

Mr. Joyner says that he "received" the vision.  From whom did he "receive" it? 
If from God, then is God not able to communicate unambiguously and inerrantly
to us through those whom he has chosen?  If not, then we may as well revisit
our stand on biblical inerrancy. 
    
>    2.  More importantly, just as the Pharisees searched the scriptures
>    for information about the Messiah and did not recognize Christ, so
>    may believers in these last days search the scriptures for verifica-
>    tion of the coming move of God and not see it.  Spiritual things
>    are spiritually discerned-  I cannot emphasize this enough.  There
>    is no substitute for biblical knowledge, but knowledge alone will
>    not be enough.  We MUST become spiritual believers- able to hear
>    the voice of the Holy Spirit as well as His written Word.  This 
>    relationship must be developed beyond feelings of burden and con-
>    viction of sin to also include the receiving of wisdom when we ask
>    for it.

Having spent a significant amount of time dealing with counterfeit 
christianity as expressed by several pseudo-christian cults, I can assure you
that I am immune to the above sort of brow-beating, if that is what you meant
it to be.  It is true that the religious leaders of Jesus' day missed the whole
point of God's message despite having the scriptures completely memorized.  But
it is also true that Jesus upheld the scriptures as foundational and pointed
out that they could not be broken. 

We would do well to carefully heed Jesus' warnings in Matt. 24 about how
many prophets would come in the last days and deceive many people ("even
the elect -- if that were possible").  

In saying this do not think that I am speaking about Mr. Joyner.  Rather,
I am addressing what I perceive as hastiness on your part to set aside
objective, critical examination of this vision in the absense of pertinent
information about its source.
    
>    3.  This vision contains much wisdom, but it also contains elements
>    which cannot be verified by scripture.  The spiritual man will know
>    the difference and will separate the wheat from the chaff.
    
Let the "spiritual man" heed the words of scripture in Acts 17:11 commending
the Bereans of the Apostle Paul's day, "for, they received the message with
great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said
was true."  I make no apologies for my inquiries into the inspiration and
truthfulness of this vision.  1 Thess 5:19-22 says:

  - Do not put out the Spirit's fire.
  - Do not treat prophecies with contempt.
  - Test everything. 
  - Hold on to the good.
  - Avoid every kind of evil.

    All of the information I have for contacting Joyner is contained
    in note 18.32.
    

Re: .44  (Larry DeGroff)

>    All of the information I have for contacting Joyner is contained
>    in note 18.32.
    
Okay then, why don't I take over the action item to pursue him.

By the way, I want you to know that I appreciate your initiative at posting
all these various prophecies/visions.  You are doing us all an important
service by doing so.  As we approach the end of the age, we all need to stay
up-to-date on prophecy, regardless of its origin.  In the case of true
prophecy, we need to know what God has to say to us, so we can prepare for
what he has in store for us and for the world.  In the case of false prophecy,
we need to be able to identify what is not of God, so that it can be nipped
at the bud and warnings disseminated before many are led astray by it.