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Conference ilbbak::us_sales_service

Title:US_SALES_SERVICE
Notice:Please register in note 2; DVNs in note 31
Moderator:MCIS3::JDAIGNEAULT
Created:Thu May 16 1991
Last Modified:Tue Sep 03 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:226
Total number of notes:1486

165.0. "WSG's partyline on HP's announcement 11/10/92" by HARBOR::ZAHARCHUK () Fri Nov 06 1992 14:03

WSG has prepared this note with point, counter-point information on Digital's
Alpha AXP workstations vs. HP's new machines on 11/10. We will update as needed
and please remember that they may change between now and Tuesday.

Thanks,

Bill Zaharchuk
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                 Response to HP Workstation Announcement


We anticipate that on Nov. 10 HP will announce

   Model       SPEC89             Price   $/SPEC*   Configuration
                   
    755       150 SPECmarks       $50-$80K  $333      Deskside
    735       150 SPECmarks       $30-$60K  $200      Desktop
    725       70-85 SPECmarks     $20-$26K  $235      Desktop
    715/50    70 SPECmarks        $12-$18K  $171      Desktop
    715/33    50 Specmarks        $ 5-$12K  $100      Desktop

    SPECmarks may go up sligtly and prices may come down.

Digital will announce

    3000-500  122 SPECmarks**     $39,000   $321      Deskside
    3000-400  109 SPECmarks**     $15,000   $138      Desktop

             * Using Entry Level Prices Until Configurations are know.
             ** May change slightly at announcement
            
   Be sure to compare desktop to desktop, deskside to deskside.

Facts:

     735 and 755 are faster than Alpha.
     Alpha workstations have superior price/performance
     We do not have a comparable systems to the 715 until low cost Alpha WS
             is available.

Attack Messages:

  Price
       We expect HP to continue their trend of having very expensive 
           workstations.
       Their customers pay dearly for that performance.
       High performance at very high prices.


  Delivery
       We doubt they can deliver until Spring.
       Just this week HP told their 887/897 (7100 based) customers that the
                   delivery of these servers slipped 3 months.
       Workstations use the same chip are the 887/897 server.
       We have already shipped over a thousand Alpha workstations to developers.

  HP Just Responding to our Alpha Rollout
      HP making marketing response to DEC'S promised rollout of Alpha AXP.
      HP cannot deliver in the same timeframe as Alpha.


Alpha AXP Performance Messages

      Full family of Alpha AXP products -- desktop to datacenter.
      Incorporating the world's fastest microprocessor.
      20-25% faster than anything HP announce.
             (183 SPECmarks for 10000 compared to 150 for HP)
      First generation of systems - with plenty of room for performance growth. 

Workstation Specific Messages

   In workstation space focus on VALUE.

          Superior price/performance -- specmark/$.
          Priced at the right price point.
	  Expandability and Flexibility.
          Leadership Investment Protection strategy for our customers.



COMMENTS:

   The price and performance of the HP systems are our latest estimates. The
general analysis probably will not change even if HP performance is better 
and prices lower than used here

       1) Deskside Configuration
             HP has more performance at a higher price.
             $/SPECmark is roughly comparable.
             Price should be the key for this comparison, not raw performance.
             This is a very small portion of the workstation market.
             
       2) Desktop
             The $15,000 price of the 3000-400 is a very attractive 
                  price point for an over 100 SPECmark desktop.
             735 is very fast, but also very expensive. This is not a volume
                  price point. We do not have a product that competes directly
                  the the 735.
             HPs current volume is in the 720, which will be replaced by the
                  725. The 3000-400 has significantly better performance
                  and a better price than the 725.
             Until Low Cost Alpha WS is available, we do not have a product
                  to compete with the 715 series. However, we expect to announce
                  and ship Low Cost Alpha in roughly the same time frame
                  as the 715 ships.
             HPs current low end products (705/710) are not large volume
                  products.

     THE 3000-400 IS IDEALLY POSITIONED FOR THE VOLUME PART OF THE MARKET.

     FOCUS ON THE 3000-400 PRICE AND PRICE/PERFORMANCE.
                        
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
165.1LEMAN::SELBYTue Nov 17 1992 08:542
    Is this document being updated now that the announcements have been
    made ?
165.2Here is a complete overview from the competitive team....WAZHARBOR::ZAHARCHUKThu Nov 19 1992 11:10455
Subject: SUMMARY OF ALPHA VS HP, SUN ANNOUNCEMENTS                              1




                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     12-Nov-1992 11:53am EST
                                        From:     Peter Lowber
                                                  LOWBER.PETER
                                        Dept:     U.S. Competitive Team
                                        Tel No:   297-6341

TO: See Below

Subject: SUMMARY OF ALPHA VS HP, SUN ANNOUNCEMENTS                              

This document is the result of a Team Effort.  Many thanks to those
of you who helped put this together.

   		    ALPHA AXP VERSUS THE COMPETITION:
   	      SUMMARY ANALYSIS OF HP AND SUN ANNOUNCEMENTYS
   
   November 11, 1992
   
   This document represents the following people who drafted this summary 
   yesterday:  Rhoda Phillips, Brush Bradley, Mike Greenfield, Tom 
   Walker, Tom Copeland, Dom Ricchetti, Dick Palm, Tom Henkel, Peter 
   Lowber.  Thanks also to Andy Feit, Jim Becker, Bill Jackson, Anders 
   Overgaard, and Mitch Hall.
   
   EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
   
   There were no big surprises in either the HP or Sun announcements.  
   The following key points summarize our competitive positioning:
   
   * Digital Has the Leadership Industry Architecture.
   - As illustrated by Alpha AXP's leadership performance range, 
   price/performance, and choice of platforms (see the following 
   bullets).
   - HP, IBM, and Sun must migrate to a 64-bit architecture in the 
   future.
   - Marc Schulman, President of Technology Strategies Group, commented:
   "In the future, Digital could come to dominate the 64-bit arena
   just as Intel did with the PC industry.  Like Intel, Digital is there
   first." (Boston Globe, November 11, 1992).
   
   * Digital Has the Industry's Leadership Price/Performance
   - The DEC 3000 M400 has 50% better price/performance over HP's 
   flagship Mid-Range best price/performer (the Model 735).
   - As Dataquest stated in their "Workstation Market Update Alert," 
   November 10, 1992: "Digital has hit the sweet spot of the workstation 
   market with the Model 400.  In this sweet spot, DEC has established a 
   new price/performance standard for the industry achieving almost half 
   the price/performance of the next closest competitor."
   
   * Digital has the Highest Performance Range, From Desktop to Data 
   Center
   - The DEC 10000 offers 184.1 SPECmark 89.  At the high-end, HP's Data 
   Center Family is the HP 9000 800 Series, which offers a uniprocessor 
   performance maximum 136 SPECmark 89, and the new HP workstation offers 
   147 SPECmark 89.
   - IDC states that "the HP 9000 800 Series currently trails in 
   performance and price/performance.  Its MP models are very expensive 
   relative to Alpha."
   
   * Digital is the Only Vendor Offering Customers Choice.
   Dataquest pointed out a major HP shortcoming: "Another challenge for 
   HP is to provide a pervasive alternative desktop operating system to 
   UNIX in order to capture a portion of the business desktop market...  
   We believe that DEC will have the upper hand because it offers 
   multiple operating systems combined with its fast processing 
   capabilities.  For users who want to stay with Windows, a DEC Alpha 
   system could be an excellent server option.  For those who need a more 
   stable or more robust operating system, DEC has options available.  In 
   contrast, HP and Sun currently offer only their respective versions of 
   UNIX."  This reconfirms our message that freedom of choice is a 
   strategic advantage for Digital.
   
   * Digital Offers Leadership Business Practices
   IDC says that "Digital's Alpha AXP business practices are the finest 
   set of migration programs offered by any vendor.  This includes both 
   Digital's hardware upgrade program from VAX and DECsystems to Alpha 
   AXP, as well as the  Alpha ready software migration program.  "These 
   business practices," concludes IDC, "represent significant savings."
   
   WHAT DID HP ANNOUNCE?
   
   * HP Performance was what was expected (even a little lower than 
   expected) but their pricing is high for their high-end workstations 
   (M735 and M755).  The HP Mid-Range workstations (M715 and 725) are 
   unimpressive, but the low-end M715 is an area where we are vulnerable 
   until Pelican.
   
   * HP Announced a complete replacement of the HP 9000 700 Series 
   Workstation Family, with new high-end graphics options, and an 
   impressive integrated multi-media product:
   
   	- Five workstations/servers	SPEC89	Entry $	   Avail
   		- Model 715/33		45      5,095	   1/93
   		- Model 715/50		69     11,895	   1/93
   		- Model 725/50		69     17,895	   1/93	
   		- Model 735		146.8  37,395	   1/93
   		- Model 755		146.8  58,995	   1/93
   	
   	- New high-end graphics with the CRX 48Z 3D, along with 
   	re-priced graphics solutions to compete with SGI, including 3D 
   	graphics at the low-end.
   	--- NOTE: We will ship 3D graphics for Alpha AXP 1H 93, CY
   	for both VMS and OSF/1.  And we'll have a broad range of graphics 
   	options with Kubota.
   
   	- MPower, an integrated, multi-media-based visual 
   	user environment.
   	--- NOTE: Consultants, especially IDC, are very enthusiastic 
   	about this, which HP developed internally.  However, D.H. Brown
   	notes that, while this is a good product, it is late, and it is 
   	not leadership: "After a late start, HP's multimedia effort 
   	should become fully competitive within the next six months"
   	with Sun and DEC.  Brown points out that HP's product offers
   	an integrated solution, but Digital's allows third parties to 
   	incorporate easily existing applications. 
   
   	- A full one-year warranty with 3 Day (working days) On-Site
   	service for all HP 700 Models.  There are also options for next 
   	day and 4-HR on-site Service.  HP had previously offered
   	90-day Warranty.
   
   	- "No-Penalty" board upgrades from current M720, M730, M750
   	to M735 and M755
   	--- NOTE: While their upgrade policy has improved, there IS a 
   	penalty for M720 users (who are the vast majority of HP's 700 
   	installed base.  These users cannot go to the M725 but must 
   	upgrade to the expensive M735).
   	- The M715 is Bounded and there are no board upgrades from
   	current low-end M705/710 users.
   
   	- Availability:
   	HP said at their press conference yesterday in Cambridge that
   	all their new workstations are available in January 1993.
   	Alpha AXP Workstations are shipping now.   HP's ability to
   	deliver high-speed chips in volume on time is suspect
   	since they have had difficulties with high-end 700 delivery
   	in the past (66MHz workstations last year had a four month
   	lag-time), and more recently, delivering the 7100-chips
   	in the new 800 Series Models.
   
   	- There is no new I/O bus for the new HP 700 Workstations,
   	which are still only supported by the EISA bus-II (PC-bus).
   	HP admitted at their press conference yesterday that EISA bus 
   	supports only 20MB/Second.  
   
   	- The Model 715 and M735 are bounded.  These Models have
   	only one EISA slot.  For example, the new CRX-24, 24Z, and
   	48Z graphics boards in the low-end systems will block
   	one EISA slot (according to DH Brown's report on the
   	HP Announcement).
    		
   * HP/UX WEAKNESS VERSUS OSF/1
   
   D.H. Brown ("HP Drives for Technical Share, November 10, 1992) 
   believes that HP's highly touted HP-UX 9.0 (UNIX operating system) has 
   some deficiencies: "HP/UX 9.0 still needs significant revision to 
   match the functionality AIX and OSF/1.  HP has not yet given its 
   operating system full pre-emptibility or a first rate file system.  
   The underlying design of HP/UX also provides relatively weak support 
   for layered system and storage management functions."   Infocorp has 
   also cited as an HP weakness HP/UX versus OSF/1.
   
   WHAT DID SUN ANNOUNCE?
   
   Sun announced an architecture, the SPARCenter 2000, to deliver a 
   20-Way SMP System by 1H 1994 CY.  A two-eight way system will be 
   available in April, 93. 
   
   Sun also announced the SPARCclassic low-end $4,295 color (15") 
   workstation.
   

   
   		CHART OF NEW SUN PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
   		SPARCclassic     SPARCstation LX	SPARCenter 2000
     CPU	TI microSPARC    TI microSPARC		TI Super Sparc
     MHz	    50		 50			40
     Col Graphics 15" 8-plane	 16" GXplus			NA
     SPECmark 89   NA		 NA			NA
     SPECint 92	   26.4	  	 26.4			NA
     SPECfp 92	   21.0		 21.0			NA
     Entry $	   4,295	 7,895		        92,000
     Avail	   12/92	 12/92		        4/93  2-8-way
   							2H/93 16-way
   						        1H, 94  20-way
   
   SUN'S NEW SPACclassic: MARKET IMPACT
   
   IDC does not believe that Sun's new low-end workstation will have much 
   impact.  The SPARCclassic is very limited, supporting only a 15" color 
   monitor with few graphics options.  Moreover, the SPARCclassic 
   requires the new Sun Solaris 2.1 operating system, which is not 
   compatible with current Sun OS applications.  The new low-end replaces 
   the Sun IPC ("Instead of PC"), which did not support any color 
   monitor.  Sun hopes to capture PC market share with the SPARCclassic, 
   but IDC comments that "workstations will not replace PC's."  UNIX is 
   less than 3% of all desktops, which are dominated by DOS, Windows, and 
   Macintosh.  Dataquest also cites the pain of DOS to UNIX migration.  
   
   The SPARCclassic is betwixt and between.  It is not a PC and lacks the 
   capabilities that many workstation users want.
   
   The SPARCclassic is non-discountable for quantities under 12.
   
   The SPARCcenter 2000: IMPACT
   
   Sun's SC 2000 announcement is marketing FUD.   Sun announced no 
   perforance data, but made a TP claim of 500+ TPS based on LAB 
   estimates!   Sun is going after the downsizing market with vapor-ware.  
   The SC 2000 is underwhelming in performance since it uses the 40MHz 
   chip that the SPARC-10 workstations  (announced last May) are using, 
   except that these workstations aren't even shipping yet!   They have 
   been delayed until 1Q 93.
   
   The new SC 2000, which will undermine the SPARC 600MP Servers, also 
   uses the same I/O bus-- the S-bus-- at 80MB/second.  This does not 
   compare with AXP's FutureBus+.
   
   Finally, the SC 2000 requires Sun's new Solaris 2.1 Operating System 
   (SV R4-based), a major conversion for Sun's installed base (who have 
   Solaris 1.0 installed, which is based on Berkeley's UNIX).  
   
   SUN ISSUES:
   
   	* Sun has not shipped SMP (Symmetric Multiprocessing Systems).
   	With Solaris 2.1 just announced, Sun claims they will
   	begin to ship SMP capabilities.  But this requires Sun's
   	installed base (based on Solaris 1.0) to migrate.	
   	* Inferior Performance across their entire product line
   	-  This includes all performance, but Floating Point Performance 
   	is even weaker
   	* Failure to ship even the performance promised in the SPARC-10
   	Family
   	* Lagging Price/Performance
   	* Forced Migration/conversion from Solaris 1.0 to Solaris 2.1
   	- Solaris 2.1 was just announced and is just shipping.  
   	* SPARCcenter 2000 is Vaporware
   	* Sun won't succeed with its eggs all-in-one basket
   	(UNIX will not replace PC-desktops)
   	* Sun does not have the sales, sales support, or services
   	capabilities to go after Data Center Downsizing Opportunities.
   
   IMPACT ON IBM
   
   Dataquest belives that the "biggest impact of these three 
   announcements will be on IBM.  IBM (RS/6000) current models are 
   lacking in performance, and their price/performance is twice as high 
   as that of their competitions in all categories."  This is certainly 
   true for Alpha AXP, which offers two-times better price/performance 
   with superior performance across the Family.

   
   COMPETING AT THE LOW-END WORKSTATION MARKET: IMPACT
   
   Alpha AXP will soon be very competitive at the low-end of the 
   workstation market.  Pelican was program announced, with product 
   availability in March, 1993.  For useable workstation configurations, 
   Digital will have superior performance and price/performance against 
   HP (the new HP workstations don't ship until January, 1993), Sun, and 
   IBM at the low-end of the workstation market.  
   
   In addition, we will have the fastest NT System in the industry 
   (Jensen) which will be announced when Microsoft announces NT.  This 
   will support PC-industry standards, like EISA bus, and will be priced 
   under $10,000.
   
   The following Chart shows some comparisons with Pelican.  
   
   			LOW-END WORKSTATION COMPARISONS
   		 AXP	   HP715    HP715    IBM220    SUN	SUN
   		PELICAN     /33	    /50		       LX    SPARC10-30
   
   SPECMARK 89	  80E 	   45.9	    69.0      27.7     NA      NA
   	   	    
   SPECint 92     NA	   24.2     36.5      16.6     26.4   44.2
   
   SPECfp 92	  NA	   45.0	    72.1      26.1     21.0   52.9
   
   BUS SPEED (MBPS) 50	    33	     33	       40	80    80
   BUS SPEED
     -SUSTAINED	   45	    20	     20	       13-22    27    27      
   			     
   * 19"COL,16/400 NA     9,995    13,995     11,235   9,875  20,495
   
   $/SPEC 89	   NA      218      203        406      NA     NA
   
   

   COMPETING IN THE WORKSTATION AND SERVER MARKET
   
   The following Charts show competitive comparisons for Alpha AXP 
   workstations and servers versus HP, IBM, and Sun.  From desktop to 
   data center, Alpha AXP shows better price/performance against HP, with 
   superior price/performance against IBM and Sun.  For balanced 
   performance, Alpha AXP will have additional performance advantages -- 
   with faster buses, and more cache and memory.
    
          ALPHA AXP: COMPETITIVE PRICE AND PERFORMANCE DATA
  
  V1.0 November 6, 1992
  V1.1 11/9/92
  V1.2 11/11/92
  V1.3 11/12/92
  
  WORKSTATIONS: DESKTOP
  
  		   DEC3000/400	  HP725/735    IBM350	   SUN10/41	 
  
  SPECMARK 89	    108.1	    69/147	73.7	    60E	         
  		  		   	    
  SPECint 92         65.3	   36.5/80	35.4	   53.3	         
  				
  SPECfp 92	    112.2	   72.1/150.6   74.2	   65.1
  
  BUS SPEED (MBPS)   90		    33		40	   60	
  
  US PRICE*	    18,795	   20.5/37.4K	27,500    26,995
  * 19"COL,32/400
  
  $/SPEC 89	     174	   297/254	374	   450
  
  
  WORKSTATIONS: DESKSIDE
  
  		   DEC3000/500	  HP755	        IBM580	  SUN10/52	 
  
  SPECMARK 89	   121.5	  147		126.2	  109E-thruput     
  		  		   	    
  SPECint 92        74.3           80		 59.1	   58.1 
  		  				
  SPECfp 92	   126.0 	  150.6		124.7	   71.4	
  
  BUS SPEED (MBPS) 100		   33		 80	   80
  
  US PRICE*	   38,995	   59K		71,630	  41,995
  * 19"COL,32/400
  
  $/SPEC 89    	    321		   401		  568	   385
  

  
  
  SERVERS: DESKTOP
  
  		   DEC3000/400	  HP725/735    IBM350	   SUN10/41	 
  
  SPECMARK 89	     108.1	   69/147	73.7	    60E	         
  		  		   	    
  SPECint 92         65.3	   36.5/80	35.4	   53.3	         
  				
  SPECfp 92	    112.2	   72.1/150.6   74.2	   65.1
  
  BUS SPEED (MBPS)   90		    33		40	   60	
  
  US PRICE*	    22,995	   24.5/40K	27,900    29,395
  * 64MB/1GB
  
  $/SPEC 89	      212	    355/272	 379	    490
  
  
  SERVERS: DESKSIDE
  
  		   DEC3000/500	  HP755	        IBM580	  SUN10/52	 
  
  SPECMARK 89	   121.5	  147		126.2	  109E-thruput     
  		  		   	    
  SPECint 92        74.3           80		 59.1	   58.1 
  		  				
  SPECfp 92	   125.1 	  150.6		124.7	   71.4	
  
  BUS SPEED (MBPS) 100		   33		 80	   80
  
  US PRICE*	   41,195	   63K		64,450	  39,995
  * 64MB/1GB
  
  $/SPEC 89    	    339		  429		511	    367
  

  
  
  SERVERS: OFFICE
  
  		   DEC4000	  HP887S       IBM980	   SUN670/52
  	
  SPECMARK 89       133.6	   136.1	126.3	   109-thruput      
  		  		   	    
  SPECint 92         83.5	    78.2	 59.2	   58.1	
  
  SPECfp 92    	    143.1	   141.6	124.8	   71.4	
  
  BUS SPEED (MBPS)  160		   ??		 80	    80
  
  US PRICE*	    72,750	    92K		117,800    69,500	 
  * 64MB/1GB
  
  $/SPEC 89	     545	    677	 	 935	    638
  
  
  SERVERS: DEPARTMENTAL
  
  		   DEC7000/610	  HP897S       IBM980	   SUN690/52
  	
  SPECMARK 89		167.4	  136.1		126.3	    109-thruput	      
  		  		   	    
  SPECint 92       	 96.6	   78.2	  	 59.2	     58.1        
  				
  SPECfp 92		182.1	  146.1		124.8	     71.4
  
  BUS SPEED (MBPS)	160	   ??		80	     80
  
  US PRICE*		155,000   112,000      117,800       98,000	 
  * 64MB, 1GB
  
  $/SPEC 89		 926        823		 933	      899
  

  
  
  SERVERS: DATA CENTER
  
  		   DEC10000	  HP890       IBM ES9000    SUN SC 2000
  
  SPECMARK 89      184.1  	  130		NA	     NA
  
  SPECint 92	   106.9	   NA		NA           NA	         
  				
  SPECfp 92	   196.5	   NA		 	     NA
  
  SPECrate int 92   9,108        4,301          NA           NA  
  (4-way)
  
  SPECrate fp 92   17,187	 4,685		NA           NA
  (4-way)
  
  BUS SPEED (MBPS) 180		 			     80  
  							
  US PRICE*	   303,000	  340,000     >$5M	
  * 64MB, 1GB
  
  $/SPEC 89        1,646	  2,615