| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 158.1 | I can relate, OEM disks ! | UNYEM::HARRIGANK | | Sun Oct 18 1992 16:30 | 11 |
|
Don Beers @ upo is the Arrow DEC acct Mgr.
I have done a very similiar thing to win business. Re-purchase our
disks. What a paperchase ?
Lets simplify the channel ASAP !
K.M.H.
|
| 158.2 | DSPs on Hold | GUIDUK::MANN | | Tue Oct 20 1992 00:27 | 10 |
| Looks like it only gets worse. The DSP5200s are on hold as they found
the latest batch to have an approximately 75% failure rate.
So my choice right now, as dictated by customer needs, is debook the
$200K sale I already certed or find an alternative disk to sell. Looks
like I may need to go with HP drives.
Somehow just doesn't feel right to do it but what choices do we have?
Art
|
| 158.3 | OEM, CERTIFIED, & QUALIFIED STORAGE DEVICES | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Tue Oct 20 1992 18:54 | 54 |
|
RE.FEW BACK
I'm a disk product manager who manages some of the DSP drives you are
discussing.
I believe (and heavens knows I'm biased!) that the DSP drives are the
best in the industry. I know the engineers, I know the features, I know the
manufacturing folks, and I agree with your assessments. However, there
are a few things you should know...
1) As with any third party SCSI vendor (believe it or not DSP drives
are to be treated as third party vendor supplied) there is no guarantee that
the drive will plug and play on a given system. That is because it has not been
tested, shaked, rattled, rolled, passed systems testing, operating systems
testing etc. Also the firmware has not been shaken out *with* a particular
system for bugs, neither has the firmware been optimized with systems firmware.
That is a DSP drive. However, the DSP drives are more likely to work with
our systems than any other disk drive vendor. If it's not available as an
internal disk drive on a given system, I would not hesitate to recommend a DSP
drive to anyone. They're great products, but you know that already.
2) Traditionally we don't announce any option for a system until we've
QUALIFIED it. Qualification does all the things I said above. If there is a
qualified drive for a system, that is the one you want to sell. Don't let the
higher price fool you. A lot of testing and optimization has gone into that
particular drive. It is likely that there will be different levels of firmware
between an RZ internal drive and an DSP OEM drive. Also each RZ variation has
the necessary brackets etc to put the machine into a system box. Also operating
system support is available (meaning it is device recognized, etc.)
3) CERTIFICATION is a middle step between OEM and QUALIFICATION levels.
A certified drive will not be fully supported by the operating system, but
will insure it acts more like a qualified drive than an OEM drive. This still
requires some system testing, safety stuff etc. The RZ26 for MV3100 was a
certified drive in Q1 but is now a qualified drive with the VMS v5.5-2.
Bottom Line: If you want an option on a particular system, the system product
managers are the folks who make decisionS about which drives to use on *their*
systems. Your calling them directly will give them a message that there is
demand for that option on their system and they more often than give in to the
pressure (some product managers need more than one phone call!). Besides you
will help my cause greatly because the storage product managers are always
wanting their drives shipping on all systems! 8*)
If worse comes to worse and you can't get it as a qualified or
certified drive directly from Digital, then you will do what you have to do and
sell the DSP drives as you have been doing. Who could fault you?!
Regards,
Ace
P.S. the PM for DSP5200 is Swati Dasgupta @ (237-6279). PSSSSTT: don't tell her
I sent you!
|
| 158.4 | We Cannot Wait! | GUIDUK::MANN | | Wed Oct 21 1992 12:21 | 34 |
| re: .3
I appreciate your comments on the qualifying process and how that may
enhance the product. What it leaves out is that our customers are
already requesting the 2.0GB and larger disk drives, and we as a
company have nothing to offer. The choice is then do we sell something
now, or nothing later?
At the Ultrix Sales Support Symposium in September your name was given
out as the person to contact in reference to when the new larger drives
would be shiping directly from us. I contacted you directly at that
time. A few weeks later you replied with only information on the 3.5",
2.0GB drive (I also asked about the 5.25"-2.0GB and 5.25"-3.5GB drives),
and that it would be supported around April, 1993.
Is that all we have planned to come out in the next few quarters? And
if so, what do we have it compete against Seagate, Fujitsu, and HP who
already are supplying these drives to our customers?
It is very unfortunate that I have to look outside of the company to
sell market driven equipment, but I am left with no choice. It is nice
that our disks will eventually be suppported to fit in our boxes (SZ12,
SZ16s, etc), but until that day comes, there are many customers out
there who could care less what box it fits in, only that it meets their
needs! It is their needs that I (and all reps) are addressing.
The tone on this may be a bit strong, but someone needs to begin to
hear the real messages from the field. FYI, since the word got out
that I started selling the Arrow-packaged drives I have received calls
and e-mail from several of my peers around the U.S. who are trying to
do the same thing. I believe that there is a much greater need in this
market than our current product managers had understood.
I am still trying to find out who is willing to change this.
|
| 158.5 | How to do something productive about it.... | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Wed Oct 21 1992 13:30 | 32 |
|
re.4
Mr. Mann,
Do whatever it takes.
I've talked with several frustrated folks like yourself in the past
year. Like I said, we have three different level of "tested" drives. If you
want that to change, contact the system folks about options on their products.
They control that. They determine which options they will support and which
ones they won't. They have the labs, They have the engineers, they have
(hopefully) the budget, they have the authority. By the way, I'm glad your
customers like the DSP drives. They are the best SCSI drives in the industry
to my reckoning.
As a rule of thumb, you may direct inquires regarding the 3.5" disk
devices and strategy to me. Swati Dasgupta is the PM for 5.25" disk devices
so all you need to do is contact her about them (I forwarded your previous
request to her as well). I will give you people to contact in the systems
groups if you want to join me and work it that way.
Digital has been centered around systems for so long that our processes
are geared and designed toward them. I think that will change in the near
future. It has to. But for the time being, direct shipments of options from
Digital are determined by the systems groups.
Regards,
Ace
P.S. I have no problem with a strongly worded message. We need more of them.
However, I think you missed my key points on how to make a change.
|
| 158.6 | | RIPPLE::GRANT_JO | the just man justices | Wed Oct 21 1992 17:19 | 10 |
| I myself might perhaps have missed Mr. Mann's point but I think
he's wondering why he, a busy sales rep, should be expected to
drive such decisions. I think he would like a product he can
sell without having to go through so much pain.
Particularly these days when the field sales force has been
cut to the bone.
Joel
|
| 158.7 | | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Wed Oct 21 1992 18:32 | 9 |
|
re-1
That's a separate (but valid) issue. Mr. Mann (must we be so formal?)
never stated that as a concern.
Regards,
Ace
|
| 158.8 | Why? | GUIDUK::MANN | | Thu Oct 22 1992 01:39 | 27 |
| re: .5/6
The reason I did not bring up the issue of the field trying to
constantly impress upon corporate the realities of the market is that
by the time I had entered what I had, I was tired of thinking about the
entire problem. I needed to get back to what I am primarily here to
do, and that is get in front of my customers and (hopefully) sell
something profitably!
This is just one of several "discussions" I have had in the past few
months where I feel that the folks back east react with little
response, if any, or try to tell me that I am off base.
First it was the Alpha Ready Upgrade Program, where I contacted several
of the responsible folks last July to give an opinion we could have
developed a much better program to entice our customers, presented some
options, but was told that it was a great program. Now the word from
back east seems to be saying that the response to the program was not
that good. I wonder why?
Why continue under possibly similar circumstances.
Well, it's 9:30 p.m. on the west coast, I am still trading messages on
internet with one of my customers, and I am tired.
Night all!
Well, it's been a long day, it's
|
| 158.9 | Bad Policy vs. Good Products | ANGLIN::DICKS | Amplified Heat 4 Sale | Thu Nov 12 1992 18:05 | 87 |
| Personally, I find the attached memo an interesting reply (and timely)
to this discussion. ie. If the products are not priced correctly or
have the right functionality, then institute a policy to make it hard
to not sell them.
I recognize the need to support the company in its time of need, but I
don't think this is the way to do it.
In my opinion, first and foremost we are in the business of solving our
clients business problems. They will value this above all else. If
Digital has uncompetative products, we are obligated to constructively
communicate the requirements of the market to the corporation, give
them an oppotunity to creatively address them, THEN do what is
necessary to solve the problem. Even if it means to use non-Digital
products for a while.
KO and BP have been trying to get the concept of accountability drummed
into the heads of engineering and marketing. I think this is the down
side of an lack of accountability (or attention to the market). ie.
The sales force can not sell your business units products and this
puts the bigger picture at risk.
From: CORMTS::CORMTS::MRGATE::"A1::JOHNSON.BILL" 10-Nov-92 12:05
To: @Distribution_List
CC:
Subj: RE: PURCHASE OF THIRD PARTY MEMORY & DISK PRODUCTS 1
From: NAME: Bill Johnson
FUNC: Corporate Marketing Planning
TEL: 223-3982 <JOHNSON.BILL AT A1 at CORA @ CORE>
To: See Below
FYI.
/km
From: NAME: ED MCDONOUGH @BXC
FUNC: Manufacturing and Logistics
TEL: dtn 229-7200 <MCDONOUGH.ED AT A1 at ISLNDS at BXC>
Date: 09-Nov-1992
Posted-date: 09-Nov-1992
Precedence: 1
Subject: PURCHASE OF THIRD PARTY MEMORY & DISK PRODUCTS 1
To: See Below
PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY TO PURCHASING AND FIELD
SALES ORGANIZATIONS
Over the past year, significant worldwide purchasing of third
party memory and disk products has occurred due to a
misperception that third party costs were less than Digital
costs. We are working to fix the problems that are causing this
misperception and expect completion by early Q3. Digital costs
are, in fact, significantly less than the cost of purchasing
these products from third party vendors; third party purchases
of this nature negatively impact Digital's profitability.
Digital policy requires approval by the Product Strategy
Committee for all purchases of complementary products for resale
-- this includes memory and disk purchases from third party
vendors.
PLEASE ENSURE THIS POLICY IS ENFORCED IN YOUR ORGANIZATIONS.
Vendors you are likely to encounter include Clearpoint, Dataram,
Camintonn and Kingston for memory products, and Seagate and
Micropolis for disk products.
Both the Memory and Disk business units would be pleased to work
with anyone needing more information. Please contact:
Memory - Tom Frederick, Memory Vice President
- ML Krakauer, Memory Supply Manager
Disk - Charles Christ, Mass Storage Vice President
- Frank Atter, Disk/Tape Mfg. Manager
Regards,
Ed
|