Conference hips::uk_audioo

    It depends if you want the remote control that will also work Quad's CD
    player. Otherwise, there are lots of options, from Quad (34/44?) and 
    elsewhere, but which one suits you will depend on why you want to change.
    
    What do you use now, and why do you want to replace it?
    
    Dave

It is embarrasing to admit to such grotty equipment!

Sony TCK FX1010 Cassette deck (Hideous computerized auto Bias/Eq calibration deck)
Sony CDP-30 CD player (Very old 14bit linear machine, I think?)
Sony ST-70 Tuner (Very old wooden cased Sony,  I still have amp/speakers)

The pre-amp is a passive homebuilt using rotary switched and an ALPS potentiometer!

Until recently the amp was a 100w/channel MosFET homebuilt affair, quiescent current
set for 25W of class A,  however the Quad amp has changed all that!!!

I auditioned the Quad system recently and liked it,  however it does cost
lots of money,  and that could buy some interesting alternatives!

_Richard

    
    I would have thought that a CD player upgrade would definitely be
    worthwhile. There are quite a number of cheapish (150-200 quid) CD
    players that have had good reviews. The reviews of the Quad player said
    it was overpriced.
    
    If the homebrew pre-amp works well, what improvement (other than
    aesthetic) would you expect from an active one - perhaps Clive has some
    views on this.
    
    Trevor

    re .2....
    
    Richard, like Trevor says in .3, spending money on upgrading your CD
    player (assuming that's the source you listen to most), will give you
    better sounds for your pounds than changing the preamp.
    
    You need to ask yourself what you preferred in the Quad system you
    heard compared to your own, then find a dealer who will let you hear
    some options, i.e. CD upgrade versus new preamp. As it's your money,
    your ears must decide, but I'll bet you'll find a modern CD player a
    revelation in your current system.
    
    There's no need to feel embarrassed. Your system has obviously given you
    lots of pleasure in the past or you wouldn't have kept it so long. Just
    make sure you ask the right questions, and get answers you're happy
    with, before you buy. Spending money on a fashionable upgrade only to have
    it gather dust because it doesn't give pleasure is far more embarrasing;
    believe me, I've been there......
    
    Dave

    Hi, 
    
    If it's the CD player you're thinking of changing I'd look at the 
    Marantz CD52 mk 2. I just bought one on sale at �206 in a regular 
    hi fi store in Reading (10% off current recommended selling price).
    They even threw in come cassettes after negotiation... 
    
    I also listened to the Pioneer �299 job that has had some rave reviews.
    (was also 10% off). Besides it being beyond my budget, it didn't sound
    as good. This also helped me rule out the old Pioneer models I saw 
    advertised for sale by Ritcher Sounds at very competative prices. 
    
    At the lower end of the scale, I listened to a Techniques machine 
    that sounded dead compared to the Marantz. Don't know model number,
    but it is a current best seller too. 
    
    Malcolm 

Well,

I didn't expect so many replies so quickly!

I have asked myself what is important about a system to me these days,  and the
order appears to be as follows :-

1)	Perceived quality of sound to me (NOT Specs!)
2)	Aesthetics
3)	British Manufacture

I have learnt the first criterion the hard way,  what the hell does it matter if the
specs look a little bad on the test gear,  the best test equipment is the ear.

Aesthetics never used to matter,  however I have grown to hate the Japanese look of
equipment such as Technics, Marantz, Rotel etc...  I must be getting old!

As for the kit being British,  I used to think that the Japanese are pretty good
at electronics,  they still are,  but they lack craftsmanship and dedication to 
older equipment.

Whatever I choose will be chosen by me,  not any slick salesman,  and it will need to
last at least 10 years,  therefore product support matters a great deal.

Now this leaves me lots of choices,  Arcam, Radford, Meridian, Quad, Creek etc...

I just liked the way that the Quad is screwed together,  it sounds good to me,  I 
expect I would only use the pre-amp as a remote switch and volume control, so it would
be quite a waste.

However it looks so nice,  if only it could all be had for under a grand!!!

Anyone got any views on the Arcam Alpha+ CD player?

_Richard

    I'm sure the Quad preamp sounded wonderful, but how was the rest of the
    system made up? All Quad? The reports I've read rate the 66 on sound
    quality at around the same level as the 34/44, it was the ergonomics
    everyone raved about.
    
    The Arcam Alpha has just been revamped and received a good review in
    the latest Audiophile. From the point of view of product support, the
    mods are retrofittable to older models. Try that with mass market
    disposable technoflash.
    
    The Alpha has only a few real competitors at its price point. If you
    want a British entry level machine that's real hifi, there's no
    contest. One of these plus a used Quad 34 (if you *must* have Quad)
    will give you a very good system, but maybe not the best for the
    money; but then, that's just my opinion.
    
    Dave

    Time for another opinion!?
    
    I have currently have  3 Quad preamps representling each
    technology(2-valve/33-transistor/66-IC) and have also owned the 44.
    
    I like Quad very much ;-) but have always hated their preamps' "sound".
    This 66 is a major change(I have since found out it was designed
    'outside' Quad for Quad!) in "sound".
    
    The 66 has detail, spaciousness as well as a firmness of music
    presentation. Whilst the earlier Quad preamps had the firmness or
    'pluck' in reproducing notes, they lacked detail and 'air' big time(I
    even rebuilt and split the Quad 33 preamp's voltage rails over two
    transformers but it didn't bring me much!).
    
    In short.......the 66 is expensive but worth the pain if you want 10 
    years plus of troublefree running and the famous Quad backup service
    beyond that. It really is a great sounding preamp...... period.
    
    Do DIR/TIT=QUAD and find my note on Quad
    prices......Lintone up in Gateshead gave me 18% over the phone with a
    creditcard. There are a few second hand 66/606 about for about
    900pounds these days here in Germany but I have only seen two offered
    myself.
    
    
    	cheers fjeff
    
    PS: free demos here in Munich anytime if you bring over a bottle of NZ
    chardonnay!!:-)

Sounds good for the Arcam Alpha+,  however I seem to have fallen for the Quad 'image'.

I will audition the Alpha+ this weekend, however I can see me spending lots of cash
on a Quad system in the not too near future.

As for my original audition of Quad gear,  it was all Quad,  including those
fabulous ESL's.  If only I had a bigger wallet/living room!!!

Thanks for the input,  any more opinions on British CD players would be appreciated.

_Richard

    The musical fidelity CDT �500 has been well reviewed, I also saw that
    Aura are bringing out a CD player circa �400, which might be worth
    waiting for.
    
    I heard the QUAD CD player in the context of a complete QUAD system
    (CD, Pre-amp, Power-amp,Tuner ,ESL 63 speakers, remote control) and as
    a compete system it sounded pretty good to me. true the QUAD CD is
    rather expensive for a fairly standard Philips chip set, but as you say
    you pays for the reliability and service.

Hi,

Current Hi-Fi World  ( Feb 93 issue already ) has an advert for the
CDT from Musical Fidelity for about �380 in a sale. I will look up the
advert tonight and post details tomorrow.

Simon ( an ESL owner looking for a new amp... is QUAD the way ??? )

ESL owner?  You mean those gorgeous ESL63's??

As for Quad amps,  I am delighted with my 606,  it has much better low frequency 
control than my homebuilt 100W/chan mosfet affair,  and that was designed with 
power rails that would never wobble,  it could play at moderate volume without
power for a good 60 secs,  I used VERY large capacitors and toroid!

My only complaint with Quad is the price... ;-)

_Richard

BTW:  Swap you some MS45ti's for the ESL63's ? ;-)

BTW2: The 606 manual has warnings about not using it with the earlier ESL's.

The advert for the Musical Fidelity CDT is from a company called

Romers Hi-Fi Centre, Rishton, Blackburn Tel 0254 887799

Looking more closely it is a sale of ex-demo equipment 

Musical Fidelity CDT �379


I own a pair of original ESL's, they sound good and I'm sure they will
sound better when I upgrade my amp from the �90 Aurex (toshiba) bought 
9 years ago.(its getting a bit flakey, balance control and switching) 
Currently thinking about the Aura evolution VA100, Audiolab 8000a or 
the Preamp/Typhoon from Musiacl Fidelity.
 
PJ Hi-Fi in Guildford stock the above 3 so I will demo but I am 
interested in others opinions. How would these rate aginst a 34/306 
setup ? 

What reservations do they give about the 606 into orig ESL's ?

Thanks,

Simon

    The 606 is too powerfull for the original ESL's. When played at high
    volume you can ark the speaker, causing holes in the diaphram (?sp).
    
    Rik
    
    	Who swaped his 44/405 for a Naim 32/SNAPS/160 the when on to the
    Linn Kairn.

Simon,

The book doesn't mention why,  it just advises against use with the early ESL's.

I suspect a phone call to Quad would yield information why, and perhaps a mod to 
the ESL's to make it possible.

I will examine the book carefully tonight and see if Quad have explained it in any
more detail,  although my memory says not!

_Richard

    Re .14
    
    Very early ESL's (Pre 1960) have to have a mod before they can be used
    with any of the Quad transistor amps (303 upwards). I can't remember
    exactly what this is related to but it could have been amp stability
    (Yes I know Quad amps a unconditionaly stable).
    
    The 405 has a pair of resistors you can insert in the OP amp stage
    which will limit the current and allow it to be used the the old ESL's.
    
    	Rik -whoes family have had the following Quad stuff ..
    
    		Quad I + Quad 1 (Mono system into single ESL)
    		
    		Quad 22 + II x 2 (into ESLs)
    		Quad 33/303	 (into ESLs)
    		Quad 45/?	 (into ESLs) ? is low depth power amp with
    					from heat sink (404 ?)
    
    		Quad 44/405	 (into Kans) [Mine]
    
    -but-I-would-think-the-Arcam-stuff-will-sound-better...

Well,  I managed to secure a 66 series pre-amp this weekend,  the price was
575 for ex-demo in very good condition with 12 months shop warranty.

It's not new,  but it is a darn sight cheaper than the new increased price
of approx 900

The search continues.....

_Richard

Well,  I gave in and ordered a 66 CD player this weekend,  I have no illusions
about the sound quality for the price ( ie. Arcam Alpha+ would be better),
however I think that the co-ordinated stack looks great.

I also bought some QED incon Ruby cables,  these seem to make quite a difference,
the bass was more controlled,  and the high frequencies seem more detailed,  but
not too strident or headache inducing!

Next step the tuner!

_Richard

    Are you going to get the QUAD remote control (for the whole stack) ?
    
    I've used one at a friends and was very impressed, about the most
    ergonomically designed remote I've ever used.

I got the remote control with the pre-amp,  it is the only way to control the
pre-amp, never mind the rest of the system.

I agree, the remote control is superb,  you can operate it with the lights 
turned off,  it is so easy to memorize what those big buttons do.

I concede that without ESL63's, the system will not rival a sophisticated audiophile
setup,  however it is so easy to live with.

_Richard

    
>     I've used one at a friends and was very impressed, about the most
>     ergonomically designed remote I've ever used.
    
    There was an advert on the TV a few months ago (for a car, I think)
    where a bloke was operating some random piece of equipment that was
    supposed to look "scientific" or "hi-tech" - I think it was supposed to
    be controlling a computer or something. The prop they had chosen to
    represent this was the Quad 66 remote control unit ! 
    
    Trevor

Well,  the stack is now complete,  the CD player and Tuner have now been
installed.

I wouldn't like to make any authoritative comment on the sound quality,  but
it is easy on the ear,  sounds better than what I had before,  and looks
brilliant!

It will take a deep intake of breath to pay for those ESL's though! ;-)

_Richard

Well,  I weakened,

The ESL 63's are now installed,  I am amazed at the difference this speaker
technology makes.

I have yet to find some music that does not suit these beasts,  however they really
seem to come alive with female vocals, piano concertos and other such as Alan 
Parsons / Pink Floyd etc...

I guess it is time to stop considering the equipment anymore, and get down to the
serious business of listening to the music! ;-)

_Richard