Conference hips::uk_audioo

    To add some more balance to this note (I hear silence.......did I piss
    the Linn fraternity off?!)
    
    I spent an afternoon with a system designed to make a point about the
    importance of front ends......it was as follows:
    
    	THETA UNIVERSAL TRANSPORT 6000DMs
    	THETA PRO BASIC II DAC    5500DMs
    	SPECTRAL PRE/POWER AMP    9000DMs approx
    	MISSION 700 speakers       800DMs
    
    The room characteristics were similiar to that of the Linn demo but the
    difference was chalk and cheese, this system was warm and talk about
    focus and size within the image. I could have listened for hours (I
    did!) Very detailed, right down into the lower registers, rhythmn was
    good but the sonic 'picture' was what really threw me, with such
    definition but still with 'air' around the performers [did you hear
    that.......performers, not instruments!]. The speakers, well what a
    joke, that such small, cheap things can do so much (I am a committed
    planar/electrostat man)with such a front end and amplication driving
    them.
    
    This sort of experience had me ready to part with the readies, so why
    didn't the Linn do the same? Subjective I know but if you are
    considering a Linn CD front end, please do youself a favour and 1)try
    it in another system
    								    2)try
    other similarly priced/spec'd CD front ends
    
    As I understand Linn's 'front end first' philosphy, this system was
    living that out but delivering the goods, the all Linn system came no
    where close.........over to you my Linn collegues to do some
    music/system testing and comparisons please.
    
    cheers from_the_devil's_advocate
    
    fjeff 
    
                                    

    Hey Jeff, it's cool. Nobody's pissed off. Just too busy....
    
    What made up the rest of the All-Linn system? I'm not surprised you
    didn't hear sonic holography, most Linn speakers are designed to be used
    against the wall, and in doing so, image always suffers.
    
    Linn don't regard this as an issue. To them, the tunes, rhythms and
    techniques (i.e. the fundamentals of the performance) are more
    important than holographic imagery, which Linn regard as a distraction.
    Up to a point, I agree; too many lowfi/midfi manufacturers provide
    so-called stereo which in no way seems to relate to a real performance
    by real people playing real instruments. To get the music AND the image
    from any source requires a good front end; to get some semblance of
    just image requires only expensive mediocrity! There is more to image
    than just three dimensional stereo anyway; personally I would rather
    hear every player's contribution within the context of the whole
    performance, rather than define where they are with respect to each
    other, if I have to choose - which I have to, like most other people.
    I suppose it's possible to have both, but not in my current budget! I'm
    not saying your system in .2 was in expensive mediocrity category - I
    expect it was wonderful - and it illustrate very well how a speaker is 
    at the mercy of everything before it.
    
    Having said all that, there is no reason why a Linn front end and
    electronics shouldn't image through appropriate speakers, appropriately
    placed. Some of the synergy that contributes to the completeness of the
    music may go (Linn would likely sue me for saying that!), but it is a
    matter of personal taste what balance of virtues someone wants in a
    system.
    
    In theory, any front end that retrieves all information from the
    source, feeding an amp and speakers that do not alter the signal in any
    way, should play all the tunes in tune and in time, AND image, provided
    the speakers are placed appropriately with consideration to the room. In 
    practice something has to be emphasised at the expense of something else.
    You pays your money, etc....
    
    Dave (who's still waiting to have the time to try the Linn CD at home)

    I'd love to take issue with you about the Linn CD player - just as soon
    as I find the time to hear one myself.
    
    	Rik
    
    PS I agree with what Dave says re imaging etc. Judging from what you
    said I guess you were listening to 'briks.

    Gidday Rik!
    
    Let's get into it mate........all I can tell you about the Linn system
    I spent time with was that the speakers  had a name something like 
    'Keltik' (I am a prole right?!) and they were driven by what looked
    like 3 external power amps.......the Linn name escapes me but I recall
    seeing the word 'Active' on them, the preamp was the Kairn. 
    
    I must correct myself, the Spectral pre/power amp combo was 9000DM and
    8000DM respectively that I mentioned in re:2. None the less, the cheap
    Mission 700's are harly high end material and yet they did everything
    the the Linn system couldn't do (are we seeing red yet?!)........I am
    not a Linn basher (I happen to like the LP12 a lot) but I still stand
    by my critic (I am always open to persuasion.......I hold opinions, not
    the other way around!!) that the all Linn system is doing the Linn CD
    player a disservice..........I just don't hear 9000DM of CD based front
    end! (I wish I did, 9000DM is still a lot cheaper than Burmester's
    madness of 25000DM!) and there are cheaper English and American
    alternatives out there already to combat the Linn both price and
    soundwise.
    
    Get to it Rik(and others!) and find some other variables to justify this
    Linn CD player and/or system.
    
    cheers folks
    
    fjeff_I_see_red_I_see_red_I_see_red........(Split Enz)

    Ah well. Keltik sounds about right. I have yet to hear them working
    properly, I have always found their agression distracting. Your second
    system should have outperformed the Linn setup, as it would cost
    several times more. 
    
    You are probably correct, in that the system may not have done the
    Karik/Numerik justice. Linn would argue that the tunes and rhythms are
    better in their system; however whenever I have heard Keltiks they have
    been driven by 3 LK280s, and in my experience the 280 needs a Spark
    power supply before it really delivers, espically into a pig of a load
    like the Keltik. 
    
    I too have been somewhat underwhelmed by the Linn CD through a system like 
    the one in .0, which is why I want to find the time for an extended dem
    at home. My underwhelming is probably for different reasons to .0; 3D image
    is a nice-to-have for me, not a holy grail. Just getting a consistently 
    tuneful performance from CD would be enough ;-). I found other aspects
    of the all-Linn system that I disliked distracted me from what it could have
    been doing well; if I tried hard enough I may have perceived that its
    timing, pitch and tunefulness was streets ahead of my more modest Linn
    setup with much-hacked Micromega on the front, but this ain't supposed
    to be work, dammit.
    
    If you really want to hear what the Linn Cd player can do, the only way
    is to borrow one over a weekend or longer, and listen at home. Trying in 
    your own system at home is the only way to judge anything at this price 
    point anyway. Any Linn dealer worth the franchise would be delighted to
    oblige!
    
    Personally, I can't wait. Must book a couple of days' hols.
    
    Dave
                         
    
    
                        
     

.

    
    I was in the Sound Gallery on Saturday, and they said they had, so far,
    sold 2 of the Linn CD players, and that the Naim player was beating the
    Linn in demonstrations. Linn had apparently been extremely confident
    about selling loads of them, but they haven't seen much evidence of
    this yet. I wasn't told how many CDS they've sold though.
    
    To add insult to injury, they said they had just got their
    demonstration NAT-02 tuner back from a reviewer who had been reviewing
    thirteen different tuners, including the Kremlin, and the Naim had been
    by far the best (sound-wise; it would clearly bomb on facilities, even
    my Grandmother's old bakelite monster had more facilities).
    
    Now, the guy I was talking to is a bit of a hardened Naimie (is there
    such a word ?), so I post this purely in the nature of balance ! 
    
    Trevor

    What HiFi? next month will have a review of the Linn CD combo.
    
    Grant

I eventually got to try a Karik/Numerik at home for 10 days. For the first time 
I heard a CD player that made me wish I had more CDs to play, and where I felt 
I could just sit back and listen to end of the disc. The build quality, 
especially the transport, was superb.

Having said that, the treble, whilst never harsh, drew attention to itself on 
some discs - probably down to production/mastering. It would be nice to be able 
to list all the attributes like they do in magazine reviews, but I never took 
any notes! I just enjoyed living with it; all the Linn characteristics where 
there - consistent rhythm, followable tunes, identifiable participants, 
front-to-back depth and space around instruments like I've never appreciated on 
CD before. The only thing I could hold against it was that it didn't meet my 
expectations - it didn't move the goalposts the way the Sondek did - but I 
still think it sounded streets ahead of the Naim CDS in terms of tunefulness.

I really only *fully* appreciated how good it was when I put my Micromega Optic 
back in the system, though. The Optic bops along OK, but details were missing, 
there was more "grain" to the sound, less authority somehow. But then it costs 
six times as much. I wouldn't say the Linn player has the authority of a good 
LP front end, but it's close and I doubt it's Linn's last word anyway.

I just wish I could justify one in my system.

	Dave

Dave, good to hear that you're getting time to listen to music these days ;-)

The comments you make about listening to the end of the side are *so* relevant
with CD. While I like my Rotel 965, it simply doesn't compare to the Sondek
in leaving me uninvolved in the *mechanics* of the music, simply enjoying the
final result. With the Rotel I'm sort-off wishing I hadn't purchased the thing
- but the lack of round shiny black discs forces your hand.

The other alternative is of course to save up and buy something that sounds 
really good, but that would take me a year or more.

Have you heard the Meridian 602/606 combination? If so, how would you compare
them against the Linn? What do you think of your Micromega now?

re last...

Dave,

I haven't listened to the Meridian 6xx's at all. I'm really not in the market 
for hi-end CD, well not yet anyways. I only borrowed the Linn combo cos I was 
curious.

As far the Micromega goes, something odd has happened since hearing the Linn. 
Its shortcomings are still apparent, but they now seem less of a big deal. 
Whether it is the realisation that even paying �2700 won't buy me a digital 
Linn Sondek or, being exposed something that still sounded like a CD player but 
somehow worked subliminally, at least in part, like a Sondek, has removed some 
internal psychological block, I really couldn't say.

I just seem to be enjoying the Micromega just that bit more right now. I 
changed the audio output sockets to gold plated items when I put the Optic back 
in the system; I also connected the transport's ground plane to the ring main 
earth - Walt Clark's idea, not mine. Maybe this has something to do with it, 
but it wasn't immediately apparent in the sound on power-up. Anyway, last night 
I listened to three CDs, to the end without skipping tracks, and enjoyed it!

Something somewhere has changed; that, or I'm going deaf.....

	Dave

Went along to the local dealer to listen to the Karik/Numerik through 'bariks
tri-amped with a Kairn and LK280's (spark'ed).

Definitely a nice player. Clearer sense of definition and focus than say an
Alpha. I'd like to take it home and listen to it some more.

However the whole evening took on a rather different focus when they put on 
the same Carol Kid track on a Sondek/Lingo/Akito/K9. The whole thing was so
much more real somehow on the vinyl. They conducted it as a blind test, but
the difference was so obvious that we all caught it (I think we all did-
actually you do get some looney's along to these sorts of things- don't you
hate hifi bigots even Linn ones ;-) ). Clearly the Sondek is still a bargin
compared to the cost of the Linn CD. 

Quite like the 'bariks. Karin also sounded good.

    Uh oh.........I feel a vinyl fix coming on..........
    
    Interesting that others find the LP12 doing a 'better'(ok
    ok...different!) job of bringing music over against its very expensive
    (h/ware & s/ware wise) stablemate.
    
    Linn may just be shooting themselves in their own foot with these
    demos. Particularly in light of their recent tactics with dealers
    (refer latest AUDIOPHILE/HI FI ANSWERS mag interview).......sell Linn
    only, demo A/B Linn only or else.........
    
    Keep those Linn CD reviews coming in Gentlemen.......
    
    cheers fjeff (kiwi on the loose in Scandinavia for the next 3 weeks)

    I finally got round to my tame Linn dealer last weekend only to be met
    by a full Linn Keltic system (4x 280+Sparks�).
    
    			Wow.
    
    		This system is amazing.
    
    It's the first time I've heard an audio system _not_ sound like an
    audio system.
    
    Normally I sit down to listen and start thinking things like :
    
    	``These speakers aren't Isobariks''
    	``Bit too much bass''
    	etc
    
    But with these I just couldn't ``hear'' the speaker _at_all_, all I
    could hear was the music. No matter what style of music was played the
    speaker just coped. None of the Isobariks ``presence'' just music.
    
    Also heard their CD player, OK it's very good but I shan't be
    mortgaging the house to get one.
    
    �He's waiting for the Klouts to arrive.