Conference hips::uk_audioo

    I vote for the Rotel, for �300-00 you can't really go wrong. This CD
    player even compaires well with a Rega-2 !
    
    Mind you, a friend of mine listened to a OPTIK/KAIRN/KLOBBER(x4)/KELTIC
    combination last weekend up at Linn. This ``Sounds as good as if not
    better that'' the top LP-12 set up.
    
    The Optik will cost �2600 (v �31%% for LP-12 setup), The Keltic's about
    �4500 and not price has yet been fixed for the Klobbers�.
    
    The Optik is upgradable to new digital technology when it become
    available and is based on a 20-bit Numerik D/A chip set. (Though Linn
    are activley looking into Bitstream)
    
    	Rik
    
� Klobber : What a wonderfull name for a power amp ::-)

    
    Of these, I've heard the following:
    
> 	o Philips CD 850 II
    
    I wasn't really overly impressed by this, but it could have been the
    circumstances in which I heard it. It sounded a bit more detailed than
    my earlier Philips player, but I didn't hear any of the extra
    smoothness that Bitstream is supposed to provide. It also looks a bit
    of a mess.
    
> 	o Arcam Alpha
    
    This is what I bought to replace my old Philips. I had a demonstration
    where this just sounded miles better. More bass, more detail, more
    refined. And it looks nice.
    
> 	o Micromega Logic
    
    I preferred the Alpha to this in a separate demonstration. I thought it
    sounded rather shut-in compared to the Alpha. It is basically a cheap
    Philips model with some very minor upgrades to components - I think
    it's probably a bit of a rip off at about three times the price of the
    original.
    
> 	o Rotel 985
    

OK, so who's going to tell us about the new Linn goodies ? Is the Optik a 2
box player, an integrated player, top-loading etc.etc.. When is it available ?
What about the new amps and speakers ?

Back to the knitting, is Arcam going to update the Alpha anytime in the near
future ? Anyone heard it in comparision to the new Rotel ? At the moment the 
Arcam would have to be my favourite player in this price range. I also think
it's better than the Delta - more dynamic...

-Dave.

    I listened to the Rotel 965 (there's not a 985 yet?!) alongside the
    Arcam. Both produced a clean, neutral and dynamic sound so at the end
    of the day I took the Rotel and kept >�100 in my pocket! Even if they
    were a similar price I'd still have taken the Rotel on its slightly
    superior sound (to my ears).
    
    If you can put up with all the buttons, the Pioneer 8700 is worth a
    listen too (9700 has a cleaner front panel).
    
    -Roy

I'm seriously thinking of upgrading my CD player and, not being a 
follower of the hi-fi press, this topic seems just the place for seeking 
some advice.  Current system is as follows:

- Quad 34 preamp/306 Power amp/FM4 tuner
- Ruark Acoustics Sabre speakers (& stands)
- Sony CDP-710 CD Player
- Denon DRM-600 Cassette Deck (for making in-car tapes)

From the previous replies it seems that the Arcam Alpha and Rotel units 
are worth an audition, but I wonder if anyone has heard, or knows about, 
the Quad CD player.  Also, is it realistic to keep the Sony unit as a 
transport and buy a separate DAC unit, or even upgrade to a separate CD 
transport/DAC set up.

'Realistic' here means how can I get the best possible sound for around 
#500 - I know it's an impossible question, but I'm seeking opinions not 
definitive answers.  In the final analysis, I guess, the answer lies in 
my own ears - I'd just like to narrow down the options :-)

Mike

    A few options
    
    	Don't get the Quad CD player - it neither matches what you've
    got or sounds very good - a pitty really.
    
    	Either.
    
    	A. Get the �300 Rotel and put the �200 towards CD's
    
    	B. Spend �500 on a DAC - the Roksan DAC should be out very soon and
    is rumered to sound pretty dammed good. How good it would sound with
    the Sony as a transport I don't known.
    
    	As you say, let your ears decide.
    
    		Rik

    re .0....
    
    Looks like a classic hifi gotcha to me. How do you get an improvement
    in sound for �500? Well, it depends on what you find wrong with the
    sound of what you have now. The problem is that most �500 CD players
    won't be a quantum leap in sound quality over what you already have,
    but it seems the limiting factor to the sound of your system is the CD
    player, give the level of your other components.
    
    I don't know the sound of the Sony; if it's a dog, or it's knackered,
    do as Rik says and audition a good �300 design like the Rotel or Arcam
    Alpha, and spend the balance on discs. Again, I don't know the Sony,
    but adding an outboard DAC (especially a �500 one) may well have
    limited benefits due the Sony transport quality; so I'd be disinclined
    to add a DAC to the Sony myself.
    
    Your other option, if you must make a change now, is to position
    yourself quantum leap in the future - (no, I'm not going to recommend Linn
    or Naim!). You could do this by going for an integrated player at or
    around your budget that has a good transport; I doubt you'll get a
    staggering improvement in sound at this stage, but later you could add
    an outboard DAC - the quality of these seems to be going up in leaps
    and bounds while prices are becoming more realistic as time goes by,
    another reason for my disinclination to add a DAC now.
    
    Whatever you do, listen before you shell out.
    
    Dave

Ok, it looks like I will go with the Rotel 965 whose sound I like. The Arcam
sounds good, but not that much better to justify the $'s. Another option at
this stage is to use the Phillips 619 which (according to a friend who was
talking to Deltec last week) has an excellent transport, but weak DAC, and to
use this immediately with an outboard DAC. Deltec (predictably) recommend this
option.

For a similiar reason, a friend is trying to sell me a Denon 3300. It is a
very well built player, but I haven't heard it yet.

    FYI:
    	A number of people have recommended Phillips and Denon players for
    use as ``Transport only'' players.
    
    	Rik

    The Rotel 965 also uses the 'Phillips' transport.
    
    -Roy

Thanks for all the thought provoking replies.  The idea of an integrated 
player as a 'springboard' to an outboard DAC had not occurred to me but I 
like the idea.

The Rotel unit seems to get a fair bit of support on both grounds (good 
integrated unit and transport for outboard DAC), anyone care to comment 
on the Arcam Alpha as a transport?

Anyway, looks like I've got a good shortlist to get listening to ...

thanks again,

Mike 

I've listened to most of them now, and decided that the Rotel 965 offers the
best sound for the price. I can also get this player wholesale, which helps ;-).

Disappointed with the Phillips 850 Mark II, I liked the Mark I better.

Still love the Arcam Alpha, but not at the price. Haven't heard the MicroMega

The Rotel 965 is, to my mind,, clearly the best of the bunch at this (and even
a higher) price level. If the Arcam were at the same price, I'd still probably 
choose the Rotel (which I can get for about 1/3 the price).

Especially important now as my Lingo has croaked and only plays at 45 rpm...

-Dave.

    Apparently the Aiwa XC700 is a bit of a bargain at $170.00
    
    Got good reviews in HFN&RR and features 7350 chip set in full
    differential mode.

    I'm another pleased and satisfied owner of the Rotel RCD965BX, 
    although my route was somewhat more traumatic than usual.
    
    It started back in September, when, after much auditioning of 
    lower price CD players, I opted for a Technics SLPG200. It was 
    great for a couple of weeks, until it stopped dead. I returned it 
    to Cleartone, my local 'mass-hifi' dealer. The sales rep looked at 
    the box and said "Uh Oh! Not another one!" He whisked it off to 
    the workshop, and then told me that this was the third return with 
    the same problem - laser assembly dead.
    
    They did not wish to sell any more until the problem was resolved, 
    so I was offered the Marantz CD52 at a good discount. I had 
    already auditioned this model, but went for the Technics on price 
    (�150 v �200) although I had noted that the Marantz sounded 
    slightly 'warmer'.
    
    Installed the Marantz and enjoyed it for a month, until, after 
    heavy usage over Christmas, it started a metallic 'pre-echo' on 
    some discs and not accepting others! Back to the shop! Always one 
    to seize an opportunity, I played the heavy customer - "What sort 
    of rubbish do you sell here! Everything breaks! Are they all 
    rejects? etc.." They had no more CD52's in stock, so I auditioned 
    the CD52 SE v the Rotel. I haven't seen any reviews of the SE 
    version of the Marantz, but subjectively, against the standard 
    model, it seemed more open at the top end, brighter without being 
    harsh. Against the Rotel, it was a close match, but I plumped for 
    the Rotel as being more detailed and 'involving' in the mid range.
    
    So I now have the Rotel running sweetly and happily, and at a very 
    good price (but I'm not sure it was worth the hassle to get that 
    price!).
    
    Despite the problems, I've had the chance to live with 
    increasingly better (more expensive) players in the comfort of my 
    own home, and I've gone from a feeling of "Well, it plays discs, 
    it's clean and convenient, but nowhere near as musical or 
    involving as vinyl", through to "It's a close thing, no sense of 
    'dragging' timing. I enjoy listening to music from CD's, and 
    although a straight A-B comparison with vinyl shows up the 
    differences, I can spend an evening on CD only without any 
    fatigue".
    
    Another hefty vote for the Rotel! Even at full price it's 
    excellent!
    
    Mike B.

    Well, I don't want to frighten you Rotel 965 owners/potential owners,
    but I'm on my third replacement. My dealer thinks it's coincidence and
    I'm just unlucky (I tend to agree with him...I'm the man who bought a
    new Volkswagan...that spent eight weeks of it's first year off the road
    with technical problems, but that's another story!)
    
    The first player lasted 24 hours after which the motor had
    decided to keep running, when the disc was ejected it came out spinning.
    Had two wait two weeks for a replacement (they were in short supply
    then) and everything was fine for a week...then the player started
    having trouble reading discs and kept displaying 'error'.
    Third replacement (November 90) has been fine and sounds as good
    as ever (better than my 1st generation Blaupunkt!).
    
    -Roy

    RE: -1 
    
    That should be November 91, before someone corrects me!
    
    -Roy
    

    I visited my New local hiFi shop (Fleet Audio - opened on saturday).
    
    They have in a ROTEL 965BX Limited Edition for #350.00
    
    Apparently this is tweaked rather like the Marantz Special Editions.
    Changes to power supplies and selected components etc. Not seen any
    reviews yet.
    
    Rotel and Marantz seem to be fairly aggressively targeting each other