Conference hips::uk_audioo

    There was a review in the July edition of one of the Hi-Fi magazines,
    comparing it with a Linn and Pink Triangle and a few others.
    
    Could be worth a read. 
    
    Juju
    xxxx
    

    re .0....
    
    Your best bet for setup data and info on changes is the manufacturer or
    a dealer. From what my dealer says, the Roksan isn't easier to set up
    than a Linn, just different. There have been several changes since the
    Xerxes came out, the only one that springs to my mind is the main
    bearing. Recent models have a better power supply; plans are to include
    a phono preamp for those CD owners who have line-level only systems.
    
    If you're considering a table in this bracket you really should listen
    first and compare, say, a Xerxes with Rega RB300 arm, to a Linn Sondek
    with Akito arm, both using the same cartridge. Unless you're buying
    "used", as I suspect you may be due to your question around rev levels
    and set up, in which case still listen first but beware!
    
    Dave

    
    
    re .1 Unfortunatly I tend not to follow the british Hi Fi mags.I have
    bought many in the past, but find American/Canadian publications
    usually more interesting just because they are more in sync with
    the products I've been able to see sold here.Bottom line is I don't
    have that review and probable will not find anyone around here that
    would have it.
    re .0 The table I am thinking of buying is distant from where I am.
    The unit is new, but for me to listen to it will mean driving a 
    couple of hours.The reason I'm looking at it is because of some
    recommendations.I'm replacing my Oracle with something,and this
    turntable came up as a possible candidate.So I guess I wanted to
    know if the table warranted my travelling to listen to it.The
    competition at this price level starts to get steep.I can easily
    put 5-6 tables in this range which could replace my table.I've limited
    that to 2-3 tables but I was given a recommendation for this table. 
    
    Thanks again 
    
    Mike
    

Well I don't own one but I might soon:  I'm going round listening to other
turntables at the moment.  I compared the Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz against
Xerxes/SME V/Shiraz.  The Artemiz was better in this application.  What arms
would you be considering?

It's a shame you'll have to travel to listen to it but you owe it to yourself
to do that.  It is a very fine deck.  If you can compare it side by side with a
Linn (preferably in an all-Linn system), it'll be interesting.  They sound
rather different.

As for things like setup, I was told that it is simple in principle but is
quite fiddly.  Best left to the dealer.  Once set up, Xerxes stays set up. 
Other than that I don't know:  my dealer said if I buy one he'll walk me
through the setup process.

Anyway, do take a listen.

Nick

Hi Mike,

I've had a Xerxes for two years now and I would second the recommendation.

The main revisions to date are:

1) The main bearing was improved about 2 years ago 
   (before I bought mine).

2) The power supply was upgraded last year, apparently improves the
   sound, but also to supply power to the 'yet to come' ATAXerxes MC
   amplifier.

Xerxes were often supplied with the Rega RB300 arm, as Roksan did not 
manufacture an arm of their own. 

Since then, they have started to manufacture two/ three arms for the
Xerxes and a cartridge. 

The Tabriz/ Tabrizi Tone Arm

Counts as two different arms as they have choice of counterweight and
cable. The have been designed to fit into the hole left by your 
retired RB300.
The zi version has an 'intellegent' counterweight which is designed to
ensure that the full force always acts vertically downwards. It also 
uses  Isoda cables rather than their standard cables.

Have recently upgraded from the RB300 to this and am still too overawed 
to give an objective assesment. But it sounds much better than the RB300.
 
The Artemiz Tone Arm

About 1� years old now. The top-of-the-line tone arm. It is also 
designed to fit into the same arm plate as the RB300, but costs over twice
the price of the Tabrizzi arm. 
Didn't dare listen to it for more than 3 minutes.

The Shiraz Cartridge

About 1� years old now. Approximately the same price as the Artemiz
tone arm. Supposed to be excellent, but I have not yet heard it.

Regarding set up:

As I live in Geneva, and the only representative for Switzerland is 2-3
hours drive away, I have had to become a bit of an expert on setting 
it up myself. It is not very difficult, but fiddly. It is however, very 
satisfying.
Roksan have made a video on how to set up you Xerxes, to help you. It 
costs about 30 pounds sterling !!??. It is very good, but watch it in
private or you will get funny looks and comments from your wife and/or 
other friends (my experience).

Idroos

    Do you own a speaker system in the $3,500-5,000 price range?
    
    If not, go for that first, and put off purchasing a new turntable,
    tonearm, and cartridge. 
    
    However, if you own a truly superior speaker system, make sure you
    purchase a turntable, tonearm, and cartridge in the same quality
    category: costing in total nearly the same, $3,000.
    
    Only then will you approaching the sound of live music, and that should
    be your objective.

RE: .6 

Only specifying speakers in the range $3,500 to $5,000 is a bit restrictive
isn't it? Surely Speakers should be specified in terms of quality not in terms
of price?

What about the excellent Naim SBL or Linn IsoBarik's, both a snip at about
�1,000 - �2,000. I can think of many other excellent speakers for less than
that.

Mark.

>                      <<< Note 184.6 by AKOV12::HADNEY >>>
>                          -< <Strive for the best.> >-
>
>    Do you own a speaker system in the $3,500-5,000 price range?
>    
>    If not, go for that first, and put off purchasing a new turntable,
>    tonearm, and cartridge. 

This is a valid way of looking at things.  However it's probably a minority
view.  People build well-balanced and very satisfactory systems where the bulk
of the cost is in the source and there's very little emphasis on speakers. 
Satisfactory, that is, to themselves and others.  Are they wrong to do this?

Nick

re .6,.7 and .8

If we are not careful this will end up being a British HiFi philosophy
vs US HiFi philosophy note.

I am of course referring to the US philosophy of spending 50% of your 
budget on your speakers and 50% on the rest vs. the British philosophy 
of spending 50% of your budget on your primary source and 50% on the 
rest.

Idroos

    
    
    I don't think summarizing national policy in this notesfile brings
    us to any conclusion.I have in fact worked on the rest of my system
    in steps, where I have replaced what I considered the weakest leak.
    I think I have been careful in selecting pieces which work well
    together, not because of preconceived ideas of price per component.
    My speakers are a Canadian oddity called Dayton Wright.They are
    gas filled electrostatics which to my ears are one of the finest
    speakers.
    As to the replies to my origional notes;
    Thanks very much for your advise/information.I plan on mating the table
    to an Alphason hr100-mcs and a Koetsu gold line.I plan to replace the
    cartridge also,(with something with a little more output I think)but
    funds are limited to one major purchase per year.I have Faxed the
    Canadian distributor requesting information on who/where/what.It looks
    like Toronto is my closest Dealer,being 4-5 hour drive.This might
    be my only purchase of a product never heard before.I've never heard 
    a british table I didn't like,(though I have heard tables which I liked
    more;^) ).From advise I've read here,a couple of reviews and talking to a
    few people whom I respect their ears, I hope I understand the qualities
    of the Roksan.
    Again thank you for your replies,
    
    Evermoving closer towards a purchase
    
    Mike
    
    

Mike,

Please note,

The Xerxes does not have a replaceable arm-plate. i.e. if you wish to 
later change the arm you may have to replace the whole top and refit the
spindle assembly etc.

If you are going to transport the table, it is imperative that you remove
the outer plus inner platters. I have been told that the spindle, which is
attached to the inner platter can be bent if not removed.

Idroos

    With regard to the price range $3,500-5,000 in my note #184.6, I see
    that as a minimum range, and I'm sorry I didn't state it as such.  
    
    My experience has shown that, in general, quality equates to price in
    this industry, as in others.  For example, we'd all rather breathe high
    quality air, but is that different than high-priced air?  There may
    remain some pockets of high quality, low-cost air about, but I'd be
    hard-pressed to locate it, I'm sure.
    
    At some point, however, I will agree it makes no sense to spend ever 
    greater sums on our equipment, since each piece we add will no doubt 
    serve mainly to reveal flaws in other components.  For that reason 
    "balance" is important, but I suggest that the balance-point in the 
    mega-buck range should be the target.
    
    I don't subscribe to any national theory on stereo equipment purchases,
    and tend to disregard the "hairs-width" differences you folks discuss
    with regard to turntables.  I believe those distinctions would quickly 
    become trivial improvement items if we could instantly replace our typical 
    high-end speaker systems in the range you specify with systems that appear 
    to be unaffordable today.
    
    The other major component of concern is the listening room.  Along with 
    the speakers, these two elements will have far greater impact on the 
    perceived "quality" of our total system than any others.  Consequently, 
    I'd prefer to allocate most of my funds in these areas before upgrading 
    other pieces.  
    
    All of these are very personal choices, of course, and I offer my point
    of view simply to sustain what I see as a very interesting discussion.
     
    
    
    
    

    \At the low end, as a personal aside, and I apologiste to those
    who know what I am about to say,
    
    In my *very* humble system, My speakers are already good enough
    to show up flaws in my TTable, yet my Speakers were cheaper than
    my source.
    
    Having said that, a 1000 pound source will just acout take on
    allcomers, speakerwise.
    
    I reakon to spend 400 quid on a turntable to do my 150 quid speakers
    justice.
    
    Juju
    xxxx
    

    
    
    
    
    I reread my .10 note andd I think I came across in a light which I 
    did not intend.My apology.
    I do find it a little unjust that Americans (North Americans) being
    labelled because of a perceived buying pattern.I believe that
    electronics have a huge play in music quality coming out of speakers.
    I have heard moderate speakers sing when mated to very good
    electronics, and of course have heard good speakers mated with moderate
    electronics sound terrible.I must agree when one spends large amounts
    of money on electronics,this does not necessarily provoke one down the
    garden path of speaker upgrade.Maybe just the opposite! Perhaps the
    speakers finally sound as they were intended.
    I value the reasoning of tuning your system to the best of its present
    ablility before buying a piece of equipement to fix ailing the problem.
    My Delphi by no means is a slouch when it comes to decoding lp's but
    it is getting on years,and its' ability to recover the last bit of 
    info off the record in a way I perceive as musical is lacking when
    comparing with some of the newer designs of today.
    
     Mike

What an interesting discussion this is turning out to be!  Even if a little off
the topic.

I have to say .6 and .9 surprised me.  The idea of spending 50% of your budget
on speakers seems pretty wild to me.  I did once have a system that balanced up
like this, though the source components were rather naff.  To an extent my
system is still source-light.  While it had (and has) its moments I find I'm
much happier with systems that concentrate on the source.  Personal choice of
course.

I wasn't aware that there was a perceived 'American' way of building systems. 
Perhaps differences between a UK and Canadian/US approach reflect the relative
typical sizes of our living rooms (in homes that can afford hi-fi, anyway). 
There sure isn't any point trying to get realistic volume levels from big
speakers in my house!  Maybe a topic for another note?

Back on the subject, I've never heard of anyone using the HR100-MCS on a
Xerxes.  Even though I've no reason to believe it won't work well, I'd be
worried about doing this without listening to it first - are you really
planning to buy without listening?  I'd choose the five-hour drive myself...

Good luck
Nick

    To:  Mike Cote
    
    With regard to your note 184.14, you can now change your a.k.a. to
    "Now I'm even more conciliatory."
    
    With regard to your note 184.10, I'm glad to see you've targeted your 
    solution at "Roksan/Alphason/Koetsu", but my advice would be to fly, 
    not drive, to Toronto for this purchase.  Buy 2 tickets for the 
    "return" flight, and place the tonearm and cartridge in the seat 
    next to you if possible.  Before returning, create a truly memorable
    mission by taking an especially interesting side-trip in Toronto and 
    having a wonderful dinner at an excellent restaurant.  
    
    You seem to understand the point of my previous notes.  Do you own a CD
    player?  If so, I'd be interested in reading your point of view.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To:  Juju Cole, Note 184.13
    
    Is a turntable a "source" in your terms?  Have you ever considered
    electrostatic headphones as an alternative to your 150L speakers?
    
    "Humble" systems occupy the same rank as "mega-buck" systems in the
    scheme of things if they consistently answer all the trade-offs an 
    individual faces in the search for authentically enjoyable 
    music-listening experiences.  I would caution you, however, that you'd
    be selling yourself short by falling in love with what you have, rather
    than continuing the quest to ever-higher and more costly alternatives.
    
    To use a golfing analogy, why be content with consistently shooting in
    the low 90s, when new clubs, or several lessons, could lower your score
    by 5-7 strokes?
    
    By the way, how much is a "quid" in US$?
                                         

    
    Hmmm.
    
    Yes, I do use a turntable, and is my source. I am going to upgrade
    it in 2 weeks time to a Linn Axis, as this is the level I think
    wuld keep my system in balance sensibly. Even at the humble end,
    a Hifi system should be pleasing to listen to, if chosen right.
    
    The kind of people who consistently write into Hi-Fi answers et
    al about themselves not enjoying their system which is usually Linn
    front end, naim ampage and similar speakers, really puzzle me. If
    they are so unhappy with their system, why did they buy it ? Especially
    considering the megabucks they have spent.  I would like to upgrade
    my sys, and indeed will, but I still derive oodles of pleasure
    listining to my current equipment.
    
    I still believe that spending 50% of your budget is a sure fire
    way just to hear all the flaws in your source.
    
    Ok, speakers make the biggest difference to the sound but not the
    ultimate quality eminating forth. 
    
    Juju
    xxxx
    

    The ultimate tonal balance and stereo effects are defined by the speaker
    and the room, as has been suggested. However the speakers are at the
    mercy of the quality of signal they are fed with, likewise the amp, and
    so on. This is why "hairsbreadth" differences at the front end can have
    such a dramatic effect.
    
    On the other hand, you need high quality electronics and the best
    speakers to get the full benefit of the finest front ends. It's just that
    low end speakers these days are surprisingly good, and a good source
    feeding a half-way competent amp can really make them sing.
    
    One quid ( a UK pound, if you didn't know) is around US$1.70 right now.
    
    Dave

    
    
    I started writing a big speel about what music means to me blah
    blah blah reread the note and deleted it.Sounded like an audio sermon!
    Since I have the audience of the British audiophile community, maybe
    I could get some further thoughts on the VOYD turntable.The dealer
    sells both the Roksan and the Voyd and seems to have a very high
    opinion of both.
    
    Maybe when the smoke clears surrounding my turntable choice we
    can get into discussion about the CD format! ;-)
    
    Thanks again
    Mike

    re: 184.
    
    You're replacing the Oracle with the ROksan?
    
    I am extremely happy with my 3 year old Oracle Delphi/Syrinx PU3/Benz
    MC1 combination and am interested in the differences with the 2 TT.
    
    Now is the time for my annual system upgrade exercise and in fact I
    have already secured a ET2 tangential arm to replace the Syrinx. So
    let me know before I install the arm, maybe I might replace the Oracle
    instead.
    
    Thanks.