Conference hips::uk_audioo

    I use an SO table, the old type with the chipboard top and 
    non-adjustable feet. I've tried others, and I've tried doing small mods
    to the SO table, but I always end up going back to the original.
    
    One thing worth trying, especially if you have a suspended wood floor,
    is screwing some large Philips/Pozidrive screws into the floorboards at
    the carpet marks left by the spikes. Adjust the screws until the table
    is rock-solid, but adjust by screwing in, not out. Screw down as far as
    you can, so the max amount of thread is inside the floorboards.
    
    Dave

Dave,

Yes mine is the same (the "original" SO table). I have a very solid concrete
floor, so no problems there.

Tarik

    Then stick with it, if sound quality is your only goal. The Audiotech
    is only marginally better in the important areas, at around twice the
    price. Spend the money on records.
    
    Dave

    Hello,


    	Over this long winter, I have been busy re-evaluating my system 
    in terms to my own preconceptions on how it should sound. I have been
    going through each piece,whether, it be component, cable, power related
    or adjustment, to re-evaluate how I've traditionally done things. This
    has been a year of many changes for my system. In the past I have
    always worked conservatively, taking time to evaluate each change,
    looking at both the positive and negative aspects. In seems one can be
    easily seduced by the positive changes, allowing one to ignore the
    negative ones.
    	This all brings my to the latest area of *direction* within my 
    system. The turntable and its' associated equipment. I have 3-4 areas
    which I want to re-check. I installed a new cartridge a short while ago
    and did not carefully check the resonate frequency between my arm and
    cartridge. I want to make sure they are in the 7-8 Hz area.
    	Because the cartridge is still breaking in, I will indeed recheck
    my initial VTA and tracking force. Also in my list concerns the
    associated power of the turntable power supply. I have it feeding off
    a TICE, but will also try directly to a dedicated 20AMP circuit and
    thru a filter, which use chokes and capacitors. On Saturday, I went to a
    local dealer, to ask about this MANA table which has seemed to get
    press in the British audio mags. Unfortunately, the salesperson had not
    heard of the such a table, but then, he informed me that he doesn't read
    reviews! I had gone to this shop because it is where I bought my Sound
    Organisation Table.( It is the original model, with the welded feet)
    	Last night I decided to try setting up my free suspension table on
    a Target TT3 which I also happen to own. The stand already held an
    additional 100 pounds of equipment so this would be me the big massive
    and stable, vs the small, light and rigid stand methodology. Not to my
    surprise, the dynamics were dealt a harmful blow. The system became
    dulled without its normal wide soundstage. In the positive aspects 
    the bass was better defined, with individual instruments having more
    body, better impact.The actual frequency extension was increased
    also. What actually surprised me was a control in the midrange, particularly
    noticeable on male voices. I had never noticed this slight resonance
    before. All in all though, I found the setup un-satisfactory. I decided
    to put the table back on the SOT, to reconfirm my findings. The
    resonance was definitely there. I went downstairs, and picked up 
    a couple of 2X4 and placed them across the bottom brackets bars. Upon
    this I rested a bucket of change which I have in my closet (~30lbs). 
    This had some positive effect, giving the music the bass control without
    losing as much of the dynamics of the target setup.(I'm trying to not
    review this setup, just report a difference)

    	I have to carefully check *everything* with my turntable setup, to
    make sure that I have not tainted my experiment. The table sits on a 
    hardwood floor, close to the house edge wall. I do not believe I have
    feedback problems because of speaker placement. This will all take
    about a week of experimentation, using my slow, conservative methods.
    :~).Because of winter dryness, or whatever, the SOT must be pushed
    into the floor so that all four legs are on solid ground. This might
    work against the spikes mechanical diode properties. (works against my
    WAF, all these little holes in our living room :-@ )

    	Has anyone listened to the MANA table. From the pictures I've  seen
    it looks like it has greater mass, but is it massive? Does it use any
    damping internally, or is is using the de-coupling of the double table
    to work? Does it work???


    	mike   
                                                        

    The Mana tables are made from right-angle frames, rather than the box
    section of the SOT, Target, etc. I would guess they are less massy
    because of that. I haven't heard one; I keep promising myself an
    audition, but I'm not unhappy enough with what I have to really make
    the effort. From what I have read, the full setup is required to get
    the best performance, though the small top part can be added to an SOT.
    
    As far as the SOT goes, I've tried other tables, and tops different
    from the standard chipboard, but have eventually preferred the SOT as
    standard. Others seem to outperform it in different areas but, to use
    Walt Clark's definition of performance improvement as being able to hear
    more things less mixed up, the SOT seems the best balance. But that's
    just my turntable in my system in my house. 
    
    Dave 

You have a suspended-subchassis turntable, right?  The Mana should work well. 
I use a Mana Reference (a table sitting on a table, bottom with MDF shelf, top
with glass) with a Townshend Rock Reference.  To a large extent the Rock
doesn't mind what it sits on as long as it's level; but the Mana, carefully
tuned, does make a difference, and is certainly a lot better than a TT3.  It
doesn't make as much difference as the Rock's damping trough, and it's a quite
different character of change, but it's worthwhile anyway.

The Mana is not a massive table.  It's made of angle iron as Dave S says, with
spikes from lower frame down to floor, from lower frame up to MDF shelf, from
upper frame down to MDF shelf, and from upper frame up to glass shelf.  The
individual parts of the shelf are not dead or lossy; in fact before the middle
shelf is on if you rap the lower frame it'll ring with a relatively pure note. 
And you tune the top frame until the noise of rapping on each corner is
identical: at least this isn't a pure tone though!  The only damping material
is the MDF shelf, and, I guess, the floor.

I have no idea how Mana tables work, and suspect John Watson, the guy who
designs them, doesn't either: he just listens and tweaks.  But work they do. 
Last I heard (some time ago) Mana tables had no distributors: you had to go
direct to the manufacturer.  I wouldn't normally suggest buying anything
without listening to it, but I don't think you could regret getting a Mana.


I'd suggest you correct or suppress any resonance as close to source as you
can.  If you've got an arm/cartridge resonance that you're suppressing with
30lb of change on the table, chances are you'll make the system sound slower
and duller.  Stuff seems to get sucked into the resonance and then gets damped
down along with it.  I don't know why, this is just what I found when I was
fighting arm/cartridge resonances on a Linn Axis/Basik +/K9 combination: I
never completely fixed it but found messing with the arm made the most
difference.  (By the way, I did once try the Linn on the Mana and the
difference was amazing, and made the resonance much less offensive.)

I'd also agree that it's worth looking at the power supply.  My only suggestion
is: try *everything*.  Including *nothing*.  Power matters, but I've never yet
found any rules.  At the moment I'm running off a single mains line with no
filters or surge protection; it's not the best it's ever sounded but it's the
best I can do in its current position.  All the filtering, protection and line
separation I'd previously used makes things worse here.  Maybe in my next house
I'll install a dedicated supply.

Nick

    Hmm, angle iron eh? Sounds weird. From the prices I've seen in HI_NEWS
    it would seem the MANA asks a premium price for their table.I do feel
    that the quality of the SOT is very high, in regards to build and
    finish. I would hope to see that care in the MANA products. Can the
    top table be used with another such as the SOT (as additive) or does
    it require its own? 

    	I tried working out the Resonate frequency for my arm/cartridge and
    guestimated it to me 9.6 Hz vertical and 8.7 Hz horizontal, using
    the specs from the manufacturer. Unfortunately I did not have the 
    effective mass of the cartridge because the manufacturer did
    not specify it. I will look through some mags and see if any reviewers
    mentioned it in their notes. My numbers I used above are derived using
    an effective mass of 5 grams. If I have to I guess I can measure it
    myself.
        This 'Ultra miniature micro-ridge' stylus is very sensitive and 
    requires careful setup. Much more than any other cartridge I've owned. 
    Some much more exotic.


    mike

      Side note:
    	My cousin has lent be a pair of the VDH first interconnect for a
    couple of nights, so last night I didn't actually change anything
    turntable related (the bucket of coin is still sitting there). If you
    have a chance to listen to these, do.