Conference hips::uk_audioo

114.0. "SUB WOOFERS are they worth considering!." by LARVAE::SCANTLEBURY () Mon Aug 21 1989 13:03

             { Response to a request from Dave Sallitt }
    
    Hi Folks,
            Recently I added a note to the U.S. AUDIO notes file and
    Dave Sallitt responded by asking me to post my experiences with
    a Sub-Woofer that I have just finished building.
    
    Sub Woofers in this country have never really had the acceptance that
    has been given to them within the United States. Having spoken to
    so called experts in specialist audio stores in the U.K., I came
    to the conclusion that they are a no-no after hearing that Sub's
    are not phase coherant etc. etc. Well, after sitting down and listening
    to a Sub Woofer hooked to the speakers that I had at the time once
    again I realised that these so called experts perhaps are more involved
    with profit margins or what ever rather than giving independant
    objective advice.
    
    Having seen advertisements from Wilmslow Audio to make your �150
    'Best Buy' loudspeakers into speakers that sound like �1000 goodies
    by adding their Sub @ �125, I decided that I wanted to know more
    and hear more. After a course that I was attending near the Wilmslow
    area, I arranged with Wilmslow Audio to demo their 'Compact Passive
    Sub Woofer' with my choice of speakers which were B@W 110i which
    I was using at home at the time. I requested that I hear the B@W's
    first by themselves, secondly hooked to the Sub Woofer and thirdly
    back to the B@W's on their own. The choice of music to be demonstrated
    was Church organ music!, Jazz and some classics - Rock music really
    does not have the dynamic range in my opinion to fully put speakers
    through their paces. The results below were interesting to say the
    least!.
    
    First of all the B@W speakers were demonstated on their own with
    very good quality 'Front End' equipment. For those who are not familiar
    with these speakers they have won umpteen awards and in my opinion
    for the price are not half bad!. At the end of the demo I was left
    wondering why I was mad enough to part with yet another �125 because
    what ever this new box of tricks is capable of it ain't going to
    make that much difference. Not often your right but you were wrong
    again Dick!.
    At this point the Sub was plugged in. All of a sudden the Church
    organ sounded like a Church organ and not the Bontempi that I had
    listened to coming out of the B@W's on their own. Double Bass's
    became Double Bass's and not Single Bass's, what a transformation
    I could not believe my ears. Also the extra bass appears to come
    from the B@W speakers which added more to the illusion of stereo.
    The bass is not boomy but controlled tight stuff, the sort that
    comes from your high priced KEF 105's, Yamaha NS1000, B@W 801 etc
    and at a quarter of the price.
    Next, back to the B@W 110i's on their own. The results were again
    staggering, this time they sounded like car radio speakers - the
    Sub had made that much difference. It only goes to prove that lisening
    to loudspeakers is a very subjective experience. I was sold, hook
    line and sinker wishing that the 'experts' from the Audio stores
    had been there.
    
    I bought the kit and found that the quality to be excellent and
    assembly just like they said at Wilmslow, like putting together
    an Airfix kit. However, be warned if you do not have time to put
    into achieving a 'commercial finish' as I did, leave the project
    alone. I spent mega hours, bad tempers, foul language and upset
    family before I arrived at the finish that I was prepared to show
    my friends. However, it was all worth it and the pleasure that I
    got from achieving the finish and sound is immeasureable. I changed
    the B@W's for Mission Renasance 737R speakers and I now enjoy a
    slightly 'brighter sound'.
    
    Are Sub Woofers worth it, you betcha or this particular one is!.
    Anyone wanting to know more about the construction details such
    as plans etc , I will be most happy to talk to and send any paperwork
    such as plans in the internal mail.
                        
                         Best Regards,
                                      Dick Scantlebury.

    
    Have you done some acoustic treatment to your listening room? And where
    do you place your subwoofer(s)? Tell us more about your listening
    environment. I may some day install one or one pair in my room.
    
    Chak

    Hello Dick,
    
    My brother has a Quad system, and bought the same Sub-woofer as
    yourself to enhance the bottom end.
    Having listened to the system with and without the sub-woofer, I
    was certainly impressed by the extra depth the sub-woofer added.
    
    Tim

    Hi everyone, i realise this may be slightly off the track but, i
    have some sub-woofers in my car and they are terrific! If i have
    somebody 'new' in the car, i usually turn the sub-woofers off, and
    just play the stereo. Then in come the sub-woofers and because
    by this time you are used to listening without them, you can
    really *feel* the difference.
    
    I would be interested in getting this for my home stereo.
    
    Dick, can you send me some details.
    
    Thanks in anticipation,
    
    Lewis.
    
    Lewis Bishop @FYO.

    Hi Lewis,
                
    Please tell us about your car's gear in the ICE topic.
                
    Many thanks,           
    Robert.

    Thanks to Dick for sending the info.
    
    Sorry but can't reach you through mail.
    
    re;-1 Where's the ice topic - which number ?
                                  
    Lewis.

    Topic 17.
    
    Oh, yes you already have a reply there!
    
    How's about some more info!
    Rob.

is anyone out there using sub-woofers in their systems?

I'm thinking about adding some to my setup (Cambridge P25 amp, Goodmans Maxim 2s
JVC CD), but I've not yet heard any in action - does anyone know if any local
(Reading) dealers sell sub-woofers?

anyone know how they're connected up to the amp?


cheers...

...art

     Art,
     
     I don't have any in the house, but I can't resist digressing slightly...
     
     In the car, I can switch the rear amp to amplify only 
     sub-bass (<50-150hz).  Sounds very controlled, you don't know the 
     sub-woofers are there unless you fade them out.
     
     If you're near DECpark, Reading I'd be happy to show you.
     
     I would never have believed how solid and unobtrusive such an item could 
     be.
     
     Regards,
     Robert.

    Naim have / are rumered to have a sub woofer for use with their %BL
    speakers also Ion are / were producing one for their Kan size speaker.
    So they can't be _too_ bad.
    
    	Rik
    
    PS Remember the SME demo room with stacked Quad Elec + sub woofers -
    those were the days...

    Can you let me know what the suggested practice is for setting up
    subwoofers? I can't believe is an entirely randon process 8-)
    
    Regards
    
    Russell.
    

     From visiting a few Car Hi-Fi shows/competition the following methodology 
     is used:
     
     Crank sub-woofer amp up until trouser flapping begins, them notch down a 
     tad.
     
     I believe this can also be calculated using the drive unit's thieli-small 
     parameters and by watching the windscreen move (yes, some of the demo 
     vans did I'm afraid)!
     
     Regards,
     Robert.
     
     p.s. Yes, I hate overblown bass!