Conference hips::uk_audioo

    >>        P.S. What do the CD owners use ?
      
      Patterson Jet-Air from 18" away! - NEVER a cloth!
    
    Dave

Re. Note 59.1 by SEDOAS::KORMAN "TGIF"

PATTERSON JET-AIR!!

Ozone layer WRECKER!!
    
I hope you use it sparingly

Steve

I use a Hunt-EDA carbon fibre brush. I think the idea is that the fibres are
so small that they go right to the bottom of the groove. So I wipe the
record round with this in a circular direction. I haven't figured out how
to remove the line of dust that it leaves though. The snag with the brush is
that static builds up so much that the cloth mat always comes away with the
record. However, if you touch the platter when you remove the record, the
static is reduced a bit (so I'm told, it doesn't work for me). One of the
ways of reducing static I've used over the years is after cleaning a record,
hold it a couple of centimetres away from the headshell and move it round until
it stops clicking. I've got a Zerostat gun as well, but it doesn't seem to
work any more.

The LP12 owners handbook says that the best way to clean records is to
let the stylus clean the record and then clean the stylus. As far as stylus
cleaning is concerned, I've heard it said that you should *never* use any
fluid of any nature at all. The best thing to use is that green emery paper
stuff - it's dead cheap and impresses your non-hifi-buff friends when you
use it with the amps still on (careful with your speakers). The alternative
for lightly graded muck is the vibrating brushes marketed by Audio Technica
and Goldring for about �18. I've got the Audio Technica variant.

I store my records in Nagaoka anti-static sleeves, which apart from cutting
down on static are also kinder to records and don't scratch as much as paper
sleeves.

>    < Note 59.3 by 45416::BRIGHT "OK, no more Mr Nice Guy" >

>I use a Hunt-EDA carbon fibre brush. I think the idea is that the fibres are
>so small that they go right to the bottom of the groove. So I wipe the
>record round with this in a circular direction. I haven't figured out how
>to remove the line of dust that it leaves though. 
    
    One of these 'rubber' rollers which actually are made of a peculiarly
    "tacky" rubber works well, it attracts the dust you've collected
    thus leaving your record clean.
    
    Don't believe CD's need cleaning, the lazer can pass thru most
    *normal* contaminants, and the surface containing the information
    is buried deep inside anyway.

    Richard.
    

    re .3 and .4....
    
    I use a Hunt EDA brush too; I remove the line of muck it leaves
    by gradually moving the brush to record edge - I haven't scratched
    a record this way yet.
    
    Like Mark I tend not to use a brush unless I can help it; I only
    use it if there looks to be enough dust to cause fluff build-up
    under the stylus before end-of-side.
    
    Mats that stick to records with static can be cured using double
    sided adhesive tape; it also gives a marginal improvement in sound
    by coupling the mat more tightly to the platter.
    
    If you don't have any Linn "green stuff", the striking surface from
    a box of SAFETY matches works well (seriously, folks) for stylus
    cleaning; don't lean on it too hard though....and don't use a Swan
    Vestas box!
    
    Dave

.2�< Note 59.2 by 45416::BRIGHT "OK, no more Mr Nice Guy" >
.2�              -< Pass the sun cream, somebody, factor 25 please >-
.2�
.2�Re. Note 59.1 by SEDOAS::KORMAN "TGIF"
.2�
.2�PATTERSON JET-AIR!!
.2�
.2�Ozone layer WRECKER!!
.2�    
.2�I hope you use it sparingly

    Uh? Ozone layer? Why should compressed air need a CFC propellant?
    Jet-Air will do no damage to the atmosphere.
    
    Ian.

Re. Note 59.6 by AYOV27::ISMITH "Here's one I prepared earlier." >
Re. Note 59.2 by 45416::BRIGHT "OK, no more Mr Nice Guy" >

>    Uh? Ozone layer? Why should compressed air need a CFC propellant?
>    Jet-Air will do no damage to the atmosphere.
    
If you go into a camera shop, preferably a large or professional one, and
look at their selection of 'compressed air' cans, you'll find that most
are made in America, where aerosol labelling regulations are rather more
stringent than over here and they all say something to the effect that,
"this product contains CFCs and usage may harm the Earth's atmosphere by
ozone layer depletion". In fact I'm not even sure that there's any *air* in
them at all, after all a jet of vaporised CFCs must surely do the job just
as well (blowing off dust, crud, etc.).

Whatever is in the can must be in liquid form, because most also have warnings
about spraying them onto yourself and causing frostbite; you shouldn't spray
them directly onto SLR camera mirrors (this may be because of the cold, or
the chemicals damaging the silvering - I'm not sure if these mirrors are
front or back silvered, so this bit might be a red herring).

So, without actually looking at a can of Jet-Air, I can't say for sure,
but I'm pretty confident that Jet-Air was one of the ones that had the
label on. So yah boo.

Incidentally I was actually being mildly hypocritical when I made my
original statement, since I also use a can of something or other, but I
did make a deliberate effort to try and find a can without CFCs. Also I
only use it for dusting off transparencies before enlarging for which there
is no alternative. Have you tried a blower brush on CDs?

	I use one of those little brush jobs that you run around the grooves 
and then with a neat flick of the wrist throw the line of dust that has 
collected on your brush off the record. Generally I only use this when the 
record looks pretty dusty, since I started to play my records with the cover 
down I have noticed *far* less dust.

	Does anyone have any good ideas about resuscitating dirty, dusty, 
greasy, sticky records. To my shame I have literally dozens of much loved but 
much abused oldies that are irreplacable. I really would love to able to safely 
clean these up if only to copy onto tape and henceforwards use the tape. I have 
heard stories of washing them under the tap with Fairy liquid but in view of 
the rarity of some of them have never liked to try this ploy.

Nigel

Re. Note 59.8 by LARVAE::BARKER "Do not fold, spindle or mutilate"

I would have thought that immersing a record in a bowl of slightly warmer
than cold water with a not too generous amount of fairy liquid would be ok.
Provided of course you take the obvious precautions of not touching the
sides or bottom of the bowl and if you want to wipe the record, using the
*softest* sponge you can lay your hands on. And I suppose you should wipe
it parallel with the grooves. Mind you, you'll have problems with the label.

Only thing is, I've never tried this so I issue the usual liability
disclaimers.

Steve.

P.S. What on earth have you got on them (or shouldn't I ask!)

    
    
    For those specially dirty records messed up with all sorts of gunge,
    I recommend WHITEOH!!! for that whiter than white look. Failing
    that, a lot of dealers possess a "Keith Monkson" record cleaner
    which is meant to be pretty good, and will charge you a nominal
    amount per disk.
    
    Mark.

    ....but it's Keith Monks, not Monkson.
    
    I've put several albums through one of these machines with no regrets.
    Most shops will also supply a new quality liner for the sleeve for
    around 10p. on top of the 60p or so per disk for cleaning.
    
    Dave

Re. Note 59.7 by YARD::BRIGHT "OK, no more Mr Nice Guy"

When I got home last night I had a look at my can of squirty gas-gas
and found that it too is Patterson Jet-Air, and it has no information
on the can other than it contains compressed air. Ulp. Faced with the
prospect of eating a large slice of humble pie this morning I decided
to check with Patterson and...

They say that the major ingedient of Jet-Air is Freon (a CFC if ever
I saw one), but there are other ingredients of which they weren't
sure (they couldn't say definitely whether 'air' was one of them).
As far as Greenpeace or FotE freakos are concerned, or even mildly
environmentally concious people such as myself, they say they are
working on a formulation without CFCs. Better late than never.

So, the upshot of all this is, anybody can wander into a camera shop
and look at the cans of spray and think 'yuk all of these will harm
the ozone layer, oh wait, this Patterson Jet-Air has only got air in it,
I'll buy this one then' and they'll be completely wrong. Perhaps it's
time that aerosol labelling regulations here were tightened up.

BTW my usage is: spray can with thin tube attached directed onto
transparency from about 1 inch for one second each side. Presumably
(please correct me if appropriate), cleaning a CD from 18 inches
uses up a good deal more, which was the original point of this.

I would say 'flame off', but it was never on :-)

Steve.

P.S.	I still recommend a blower brush
P.P.S.	I wipe my CDs with my jumper sleeve :-)

    Well done Steve. I was almost getting around to trotting off to
    the camera shop, but I wouldn't have bothered going as far as asking
    Patterson.
    
    I used to have a can of the stuff for dusting off negatives, but
    I didn't think it was really worth while. I also vote for a blower
    brush, but I have never tried using one on a CD.
    
    Ian.

    
    Well, I too clean my records with a jumper sleeve, but then I phoned
    up Marks & Spencers, and they said that they use Freon in the
    manufacture, the Freon stays in the jumper until it is rubbed against
    Vinyl. Can't win 'em all ;-)
    
    Mark.

    The local Hi-Fi shop in New Haven, Ct. has used a Keith Monks
    machine for years. It is very good.  There are a couple less
    costly units on the market in the US, but I cannot remember
    the names for sure (one was the Nitty-Gritty cleaning machine).
    
    All of them use a very pure alcohol or distilled water based 
    cleaner. I do not recommend tap water as it usually contains
    lots of impurities which can remain behind after washing,
    raising surface noise levels (experience speaking here). I
    also do not think detergents are a good move because of the
    film they usually leave behind.
    
    After cleaning, a treatment of LAST record preservative will
    further improve record performance and extend its life. LAST
    also makes a couple cleaners, a mild one for daily (read before
    each pllaying) cleaning and a fairly strong one. I do not think
    the strong one is as effective as the Keith Monks system, but it
    may just be the "cleaning brush" provided is not as effective.
    
    Walt

    Another company manufacturing record cleaning machines in the USA
    is VPI (the same company which makes the HW-19 turntable).  VPI
    has two cleaning machines available, the HW-17 and the HW-16.5.
    I believe the HW-17 can clean both sides without requiring record
    flipping, whereas the HW-16.5 requires the user to flip the record.
    
    Nitty Gritty makes several cleaning machines.  They range from one
    with no features (manual liquid spreading, flipping required) to
    one which automatically spreads the liquid and cleans both sides
    without flipping. 
    
    Regarding LAST, does anyone have any long term experience with this
    product?  I've always wondered whether it adds "grundge" that is
    audible.
    
    -Joe

re .9

> P.S. What on earth have you got on them (or shouldn't I ask!)

Well I would guess knowing the life I once lead that it is a mixture of beer,
wine, ash, food, dust etc etc. 

Anyone know a Hi-Fi shop in or near Basingstoke with one of these Monkish
cleaner jobs ?

Nigel

    re: .16
    
    I have used LAST for at least the last 6 years...maybe a couple more.
    I do not ever play a record of mine without treating it first,
    and about every 2-3 years after that. If not for last I would probably
    have given up on LP's when CD first came out. As it is, I dont own
    one of the beasties yet.
    
    LAST not only does not add "grunge" it actually cleans up perfectly
    new records (sound wise of course).  One of the US periodicals
    did some measurements of records with and without LAST after
    discovering it improved the preceived sound. They found it reduces
    odd order harmonic distortion.
    
    I was very skeptical of record treatments after a bad experience
    with some stuff put out by Ball corporation years ago intended to
    reduce record wear. The folks at Take 5 Audio talked me into it after
    using on their house records for a while.

    I also use their stylus treatment which has the disadvantage of 
    nearly eliminating stylus wear. Now I have to convince the wife
    that a new cartridge really is needed even though the old one
    isnt yet "worn" out.
    
    Take this as an unpaid endorsement from a very happy user.
    
    Walt

Re .17

>Anyone know a Hi-Fi shop in or near Basingstoke with one of these Monkish
>cleaner jobs ?

	Well as there have been no replies in the past fortnight I suppose that 
I must be prepared to extend the area that I am looking for one of these record 
cleaning machines. So...

	Anyone know a Hi-Fi shop in North Hampshire/Reading area that has one 
of these record cleaning machines?

Nigel

    Dog 'n' bone plus yellow pages is the best way.
    
    Your best chance is The Smoke - near enough?
    
    Dave

I've put this reply in on the rather tenous theory that a
negative reply is better than no reply. So,

I asked my tame dealer today if he knew of anywhere doing
Monkish things and he said he doesn't. Farnborough HiFi
did think of starting up a service at one stage, but
thought it would be too much hassle.

Sorry I can't help,
Steve.

    I use a Discwasher brush.  I replace it every 6 months or so,
    will now relegate the replaced one to cleaning CDs.  I vacuum clean
    tyhe Brush every so often, and wipe it after using with a carbon
    fibre brush.  I've sound that the cf brushes only move the dust around
    on the record.
    
    I stopped using the Brush for a period, but have found that the
    thing does an excellent job.  I use their fluid, too, but usually
    buy it in small bottles so the stuff is fresh.  You can really
    scrub a record with the Brush and not scratch it.
    
    I have an old turntable that runs at 45 and I use this as my 
    Keith Monks machine.  My Linn is used for record playing only.
    
    There is a dealer in Cambridge (mass.) who has a Monks Machine but
    uses DW fluid with it.  There is a mail order dealer in the US
    who has a manual vacuum machine for about US$170 + freight.  I have
    no idea of the quality but will supply the address if there is
    interest. 
    
    Bill
    
    
    

    
    
    
    Hello.
    
    Reading Hi-Fi have a monks, and currently are cleaning a Hendrix
    disc for me, cost a quid per record!
    
    Reading hi-fi is behind the Butts Centre, close to Tescos or the
    Hexagon. Their service is really good too, letting me and some friends
    audition the new linn cheapie arm even though not one of us had
    a cheque book in hand!
    
    juju
    xxxx
    
    

    Fairy liquid is not so bad if used only with very old records. At
    least better than nothing.
    I use a pen with the screw thread at one extreme to hold the record
    firmly while turning it in the Fairy solution, avoiding to wet the
    label, and rubbing the surface with a smooth brush during 15 minutes
    on each side, in the sense of the grooves.
    After that the foam can be removed putting the black part under
    the tap, time enough to get it bright. Then I leave the record to
    get dry alone.
    The record is still noisy, but sounds better than before, and the
    stylus has an easier job because at least the dirt has been soften.
    
    Jose

    
    I'ts old incompetant again, from the world of finance to ask...
    
    1. How often ought I use the green paper on my needle ?
    2. Why does this notesfile hang me on such a regular basis. In the
    last week it has not been too bad (touch wood, or plastic here)
    but up to then, my network partner seems to be getting lost or excited?
    
    juju
    (with balls of fluff on this needle)
    
    
    ps Interesting debate on HI_FI in general 501 in UK Music .
    
    

    Q: What's ALL_IN_1?  

    That's a nappy, isn't it?