Conference hips::uk_audioo

Warfdale E70

Yes I know they don't make them any more (if anybody has a pair for sale,
please contact me...) But I thought that I would do it anyway because theirs
no replys to this note!

When I purchased these, I was moving up from a JVC portable system which was
always going wrong. I decided to bite the bullet and spend some dosh.

Sytem comprised: E70's, JVC 100 watt (class A, the one with the funny lines
going from the selector buttons) and a Pinoneer t/table.

I was dissapointed with the results at first and persevered with better cabling
siting of the speakers but to no avail. The problem was the amp. Out it went.
In came a PM2150 by peaureuax. The sound was fantastic! With 200 watts
(potential) going in to 100 watt speakers you might expect some probs. In the
small (I mean small) room the system was sighted, the e70's faithfully
repoduced any sound put in to them. PLaying with the crossoveer adjustment was
fun, but not really neccessary. The one moment of anguish I did have with the
E70's was when a friend of mine brought in 'Blue Monday' and put it on the
t/table. The volume on the SM2 pre-amp was at a moderate level. I was sitting
right next to one of the speakears, removing the grill, so when the record
started, I can testify to the movement from the bottom cone, which was 
considerable... These speakers are the best coned speakers I have heard baring
the Kef ones with the three modules, piled up on each other(sorry, I can never
remeber model no's), and I would dearly like to get my hands on a pair in
good condition! They were certainly extreemly sensitive (105db 1watt in at
1 metre I think) and were at their best at low to middle volumes.

AT the moment I have Warfdale diamonds out of an Cambridge alpha amp and
Nesco CD player (125 pounds with remote a year ago) and I am satisfied
with this for the moment, but I am actively looking for another 2150 and a
PM2 pre to be the building blocks of my next system. 

If your wondering why I have gone from 200 to 30 watts and now want to
go back again, I brought all the expensive kit when I was young and ......
(you all now the story) Now the time has come to assert my hifi system 
once more!

Incidently, I picked the 2150 over a Hafler 200 watt amp after looking inside
the Hafler. Miles of wire going everywere!. The Peaureaux consists of
two circuit boards, a transformer and a matt aluminium case (50-60 pounds in
weight). Very neat and simple.

By for now............ (please again any E70 or PM 2150 for sale?)
Matthew

I had the opportunity to listen to Linn's new speaker two weeks back.

It's called the Kaber, and is a floor standing model intended to be a 
replacement for the Sara, which needs a large stand to get it up off
the floor. 

It is different from the Sara in other ways; it has two bass/mid drivers,
one of which rolls off below 600hz, and another identical driver which
only starts there. Also it does not use Isobaric loading but a more
conventional infinite baffle. The Kaber is about the same height as a
Kan plus stand, but with a slightly smaller footprint. The Kaber does
have stand of sorts, but it is just a metal frame with spikes above and
below, and the speaker is designed to be used against a wall but away
from corners.

The Kaber was described as less room-dependent than Saras; I've heard Saras
in this particular room before, and they seemed to produce uncomfortably
high levels of bass. I heard similar things from the Kaber, although in terms
of rhythm and pich it was excellent, but for some reason not quite as good
as properly-driven Kans. I should point out that we were actually using the
Kabers to compare arms, and driving them with either Linn or Naim electronics.
The size of the dem room dictated that to get the Kabers away from the corners,
they were too close together - several of those present commented on this, so
it wasn't just me!

The following Saturday I found that the Linn rep had taken the Kabers back
to Eaglesham as he felt they were not as airtight as they should be. This could
account for the overblown bass, and may improve their rhythmic integrity to
Kan levels when fixed. I look forward to hearing them again, maybe at home; 
I don't know what results I'll get, Linn say that only their amps drive the 
Kabers properly, but then I guess they would say that! I would suggest that 
nothing less than an amp of the calibre of a Naim NAP250 or Linn LK280, with 
a source of similar quality, will do them justice. I'd be interested to hear
them with something like big Krells in front.

If I get to hear an airtight pair I'll enter another note, although by then
any interested parties will have maybe read a "proper" Kaber review, so
we'll see.

    there are a couple of notes about loudspeaker reviews, but this seems
    the more appropriate
    
    r
    
"Time to upgrade the speakers, so they to match the Amp and CD
player", thought I, so along to my local dealer to check out a few
pairs. The restrictions/requirements I had were budget (c. �300) and
placement (close to a wall but away from corners) - apart from that,
I let myself be guided by their choice to audition. They offered four
pairs:

    o Linn Helix IIs
    o Rega somethings
    o Rega EL-8s
    o Epos ES11s

The rest of the setup was an Arcam Alpha amp (quickly replaced by a
Linn Intek), an Arcam Alpha + CD player (not even the dealer could
adequately explain the "+"), and a Linn LP12 deck. Music by
Beethoven (1st symphony), k d laing (ingenue LP), and Al Di Meola
(something on vinyl).

First up were the Linn Helixes, which I'd heard a month or so back
when auditioning a CD player and amp. Mostly a good sound (almost
beliveable), though the bass sounded a bit artificial. A slight
toe-tapping response. 6-7/10

Next were the cheaper Regas - not much bass, loose treble, overall
not v. impressive. definitely no response from the tootsies. 4/10

The Rega EL8s were a revelation because I've been used to a big box
(Mission 707s). Although small-ish, these floor-standing speakers
comfortably outperformed both the Linns and the cheaper Regas in
every department - detailed and open sound, believable bass -
definitely toe-tapping stuff. the k d lang track we were using (still
thrives this love) sounded especially good. 8�/10 or better

Finally the Epos speakers - compared with the Regas, these delivered
a slightly muffled, closed-in sound, again the bass was slightly
artifical, and some detail was lost. not much toe-tapping here,
either.  the sound improved when the speakers were moved to about 18"
from the wall, but they still couldn't match the EL8s. 6/10

The dealer (Russ Andrews of Edinburgh) has let me take the Regas home
for the final test (they have to go back tomorrow - shame). The only
problem I've found is that when sitting next to the Missions, the
Regas `look' wrong and I feel almost cheated - how can such a good
sound comes from such a small box?...

8-)

r

    
    I think the Rega EL8 was reviewed in last months Hi-Fi Choice. They
    said that the drivers were done by Royd, and Rega did the cabinet work.
    The Royd Apex uses a similar cabinet (but made by Royd). They use some
    kind of transmission line loading to get the extended bass response.
    
    My only comment on a speaker that uses Royd drivers is to make sure you
    can live with the tonal balance. Royd speakers are usually noted for
    sounding fast, rhythmic, and extremely detailed. However, in my case, I
    found the pair I owned (Sintras) too fatiguing in the long term. I
    ditched mine in favour of ES11s. The ES11s are definitely less open and
    detailed, but I can listen to them indefinitely.
    
    I'll check the review this evening to make sure I got the details
    right.
    
    
    Trevor

    
    The speaker reviewed in H-FC is the ELA - but it sounds exactly like
    the one you described - are you sure you've got the name right ?
    
    Anyway, Hi-Fi Choice gave the ELA a Recommended tag, with the following
    one line conclusion, and a note that a high quality source is
    particularly important.
    
    "Very compact floorstander with integral stand has serious cohernece
    and dynamics, but a measure of brightness and untidiness".
    
    Trevor
    

    The ES11 is one of those speakers that get better and better with every
    improvement of partnering equipment.  Some systems can be limited by
    speakers in this highish budget area, but ES11's are better than most.
    
    The ES11's sound as good as most with �300-�400 amps, but sound
    better than most (if not all) with higher class amplification.  It's
    not as though they're hard to drive either.  They are unusual in one
    respect though, they exhibit a high impedance at certain frequencies
    (15 ohms, I think).  This means that a 100 watt amp won't be able to
    deliver 100 watts, probably nearer 50 or 60.  Still, you don't buy
    ES11's for disco use anyway.
    
    Fully agree with Trevor, these speakers are wonderful to live with are
    not at all tiring over long periods.
    
    Experiment with positioning, mine are 2 feet from the rear wall with no
    loss of bass, and sound far better there than where EPOS suggest.

    definitely EL8s - a new speaker, the dealer told me this morning, as i
    returned the test pair (sob!)
    
    they look a bit like the ones mentioned in Hi-Fi Choice, but smaller
    and lacking the sloping front (as i recall the ELAs having)
    
    re. placement of the EPOS speakers, putting speakers 2 ft from the rear
    wall is an option i don't really have
    
    r

    after a week or so of experimenting i note that the speakers prefer a
    firm surface... (ta to jack h. for the suggestion)
    
    mine are now standing on the two halves of a paving slab, currently
    about 4" from the wall. i'm still experimenting with this distance.
    
    r

    OK guys, maybe you can help me here. I've got Naim amps (72/hicap/140),
    Linn front-end (sondek/ekos/lingo) and a cd player (forget what ;-)).
    
    Probelm: I can't live with my speakers anymore. They are Mission 764's
    and they cound awful actually - not particularly detialed, muffled bass
    and I know that there is still a lot of music I'm not hearing !
    
    Suggestions ? I can spend up to $nz3000 (say 1000 quid).
    
    Epos ES11's sound good and I'll be trialing a pair at home over the
    next week, but anuyone have any other suggestions ?
    
    cheers,
    Dave.

    Wait a month, Linn have a new pair of speakers out which are basically
    ``mini'' Kabers. They've not gone into production yet but should within
    a month. Alternativly try the Naim SBL.
    
    	Rik

    
    I should think SBLs go for >1000 quid in NZ, as they're more than that
    here !
    
    I don't know whether you would still consider Mission at the moment,
    but their new floor-standing model (753, I think) has been getting good
    reviews. It's about 600 pounds here, so should also be within your
    limit by the time it's travelled a few thousand miles. Last month's
    HFN/RR has a review in it.
    
    Of course, if you do go for the cheaper ES11s, you'll have a perfectly
    wonderful system.
    
    
    Trevor  (Naim 72/140 & ES11 owner...)

    Trevor, you're happy with your ES11's ? Not tempted to change them ? I'm
    also considering the NAP180 to upgrade the 140. From what I've heard,
    this is more like the 90 than the 140 in it's presentation - i.e. a
    little bouncier and involved with the music than the 140 which can
    sound a little "detached" to my ear...

    
>     Trevor, you're happy with your ES11's ? Not tempted to change them ? I'm
>     also considering the NAP180 to upgrade the 140. From what I've heard,
    
    I'm not planning to change them in the near future - I've only had them
    for a bit over a year. One of their strengths is that they are supposed
    to be able to live with higher class front ends and amplification than
    you would imagine from their price.
    
    I have considered the 180 as the next step up from the 140, but I
    haven't heard one yet. I'd really like to get a 250...
    
    Trevor

>>>    haven't heard one yet. I'd really like to get a 250...
    
    Go for 135's you'll spend less long term!  Mind you, there's meant to
    be a 72 replacement coming out soon too.
    
    Certainly heard a great benefit from 135's in my friend's ES14
    speakered system.  ES14's are also worth considering though if your
    room isn't too large I wouldn't bother.  I'm not suggesting upgrading
    from ES11 to ES14 though, there isn't enough difference to justify the
    cost.  

    
    I have a real problem with 135s. The lack of material-value-for-money
    is one of my biggest beefs about Naim. Paying the same price as a '250
    for exactly 1/2 of the same amplifier and a fan... I don't understand
    how they can justify the pricing - even if they do sound better !
    
    Trevor

    re: replacement 72
    
    I understand that Naim will be announcing the 82 shortly. This is
    basically the 52 cut-down and in a single cabinet (integrated power
    supply). So you'll have to trade your HICAP as well. Supposed to sound
    better than the 72/Hicap.
    
    Probably biggest benefit though is the remote. I've seriously considered
    the Kairn for this reason (not so much for music listening as for
    TV/video where ad breaks need the mute switch).
    
    Agree with you about the 135's though. Sigh.

    What about the Kairn/Klout. No problem on the value for money stake,
    have you seen the technology inside one of these ?
    
    	Rik

    At the Penta Show I thought that the TDL 0.75 (Transmission Line)
    sounded pretty good, but the star of the show for me was the
    Pentachord Pentacolumn which is probably too expensive as it has an
    active crossover so you need an extra power amp.Looks incredible and
    uses two bandor metal conde drivers in series for the treble/midrange)
    This for me was the speaker that made the nicest sounds at the Penta. 

>    is one of my biggest beefs about Naim. Paying the same price as a '250
>    for exactly 1/2 of the same amplifier and a fan... I don't understand
>    how they can justify the pricing - even if they do sound better !
    
    Naim would no doubt justify the 135 price by saying they are rather
    more than 1/2 a 250.  The case and power supply are probably the most
    expensive parts and these are the same 135's as a 250.  The cost of one
    channel's power amp board is probably around 50 quid.  The case will be
    easily the most expensive component.
    
    As Naim are a low volume supplier (compared to Jap companies), they
    allow the dealer a 40% markup and discourage discounting.   Lower
    markup and higher sales would be the other way of attacking the market. 
    Mind you that Naim case must be _very_ expensive, but it helps Naim
    exstablish their "Naimness" - funded by the buyer.

    Well the ES11s walk over the Mission 764's. It's all a bit embarrasing
    really considering how long I've had these babies, and the number of
    changes I've made to the front end since I got them origionally. The
    ES11's make the system sound better than the addition of the Ekos did !
    
    I'd like to have a listen to Kabers and also SBL's just for completeness.
    I'm also interested inthe floor standing Tannoy 605 (?) as I like the
    ideas they're playing with.
    
    -Dave.

    Several days ago I bought a pair of Epos ES14 loudspeakers. Instead of
    Epos' own stands, I settled for Standesign's Z20/50, which I filled
    with sand (funny idea, but it really works). After ten hours playing
    time, the speakers settled down, and they really sound very good! I
    compared them with the much more expensive Elipson 1303, and the Epos
    is much more musical.
    
    The next step will be the replacement of my amp (10 year old Yamaha
    CA2010) and CD player (Philips CD650). Could somebody owning the ES14
    recommend a good amp and CD player?
    
    This note is also posted in the amp and CD player reviews, where the
    replies should be posted (if any), to keep this nore clean. I just
    wanted to share the joy the Epos ES14 is bringing!
    
    Jelle Kooi @APD (Apeldoorn, the Netherlands)
    

    
    People often recommend Naim amps for use with Epos loudspeakers, as
    Epos's designer is a Naim fan. I use a NAC72/NAP140 with a pair of
    ES11s, but I have to admit that I didn't listen to much of the
    competition before buying the amps. What price range are you looking
    at ?
    
    As to CD players, I reckon that you can't really go far wrong these
    days - they're all pretty good. I think that it is becoming more and
    more dubious to spend a lot of money on a CD player.
    
    Trevor