| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 762.1 | I have two deserving causes (schools).... | SLPSTK::ILES | Mike Iles - Software Developers Competency Centre | Mon Jun 06 1994 11:06 | 5 |
| If you've not found a home for them yet Jo, or if anybody else is looking
for a home for them, both my wife and children are collecting them
Mike Iles
UCG/CG1
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| 762.2 | | COMICS::FISCHER | Life's a big banana sandwich | Mon Jun 06 1994 17:58 | 6 |
| I'm collecting them too - sort of. Well, that's myself, and my wife,
and my kids although one will probably try and eat them, the other will
test out her new scissors on them.
Ian
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| 762.3 | | TASTY::JEFFERY | Children need to learn about X in school | Tue Jun 21 1994 11:22 | 18 |
| What a waste!
I'm all for getting computers in schools. It would be a lot better for
kids, if they used the same computers used in business!
Am I right in supposing that these tokens only give schools a discount?
If so, they would be better off spending some more money on a PC.
I know that this is a desparate marketing ploy from Acorn, because,
a long time ago, they took over from Research Machines as the school
supplier.
Maybe for young kids, it will be OK! Computers will be quite different
when they grow up.
Secondary Schools should get PC's. The range of software is much better.
The compatibility with computers used in business is better.
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| 762.4 | | ARNIES::SMITHP1 | This note chequed by Cap'n Grammar | Tue Jun 21 1994 12:47 | 3 |
|
...probably be stolen in the first week anyway.
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| 762.5 | | KERNEL::COFFEYJ | The Uk CSC Unix Girlie. | Wed Jun 22 1994 12:33 | 13 |
| >It would be a lot better for
>kids, if they used the same computers used in business!
But I'd say anything especially with a keyboard and mouse is
better than nothing... it's exposure to a computer that's the first
big step...
My kid brothers Sinclair zx thingie was enough to make me not too
wary of them... I think a lot of schools s/w is done for Acorns
anyway... different range of s/w entirely to what we generally see
isn't it?
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| 762.6 | | COMICS::FISCHER | Life's a big banana sandwich | Wed Jun 22 1994 17:12 | 8 |
| >It would be a lot better for
>kids, if they used the same computers used in business!
What, so every school has some Sun systems, some IBM, DEC,
HP, a few PCs, some IBM mainframes, perhaps a Silicon
Graphics Indy and a Cray supercomputer? Oh yeah, and then
there's a couple of nCube MPP systems........
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| 762.7 | from little Acorns ... | KERNEL::BOWEO | Telepathy means never having to say... | Wed Jun 22 1994 18:07 | 13 |
| It means that kids get exposure to computers and applications the
Acorn Archimedes and RISCpcs have a nice easy to use GUI and are thankfully
free of the Microsoft stranglehold. The applications generally being British in
origin and well written (one Art package consistantly beat the finest PC
equivalents in a demo at a computer show recently ) unfortunately theres not
much of it but its Quality not Quantity.
I am the proud owner of a PC and two 10 year old Acorn Electrons. (It's a long
story)
Whatever the platform they use the kids need to learn the basics.
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| 762.8 | Machine type is not terribly important | TRUCKS::HOBBS | | Fri Jun 24 1994 01:59 | 25 |
| >It would be a lot better for
>kids, if they used the same computers used in business!
This is the usual argument. BUT, the typical application used for business
purposes is too complex and the user interface is too clunky and non-intuitive
for kids. Acorn machines are great in this respect.
Also, it doesn't really matter what machines kids use at school. Much of what
they learn is not even remotely related to business use of computers. Most of
what I've seen them used for is little more than educational games. Furthermore
the price of PC software would probably be prohibitive to most schools. By
comparison Acorn software is much cheaper (although I agree hardware is more
expensive - but it includes the operating system and basic application suite).
Actually, I would say that it would be a lot better for business to use
the same family of machines used in schools! If that had happened in the first
place when the PC revolution began we would not have been sadled with the
Intel/Microsoft millstones round industry's neck where much of the machine's
raw power is lost in the overheads that result from a very poor architecture.
Hmmm. I sense a hornets nest here!
Mike
(writing this on an Acorn A4 that I've used as my main office machine for years)
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| 762.9 | | TASTY::JEFFERY | Children need to learn about X in school | Fri Jun 24 1994 18:54 | 25 |
| RE: .-1
>Actually, I would say that it would be a lot better for business to use
>the same family of machines used in schools! If that had happened in the first
>place when the PC revolution began we would not have been sadled with the
>Intel/Microsoft millstones round industry's neck where much of the machine's
>raw power is lost in the overheads that result from a very poor architecture.
This is wishful thinking! It would be a lot better for business to have
used Rainbows! They didn't. They chose what was best for them.
I worked part time in a computer shop. The number of times adults were forced
to buy a �400 BBC Micro, when a cheaper PC would have been just as good was
amazing! By PC, I mean Sinclair ZX Spectrum or some other similar machine.
Acorn are trying to market the machine through schools, in the hope that they
can sucker some poor parents into buying them for their kids. I've spoken to
parents who have thrown away their Archimedies for a more useful PC.
Microsoft aren't so bad. Creative Writer has some excellent write ups, and the
sheer volume of software easily makes a PC a better bet than an Archimedes.
Lets be pragmatic here.
Mark.
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| 762.10 | | XAPPL::HINXMAN | Be not too hard | Fri Jun 24 1994 19:22 | 13 |
| re .9
> It would be a lot better for business to have
> used Rainbows!
Actually, it would have been better for business to use the machine
which gave best value for money.
> They chose what was best for them.
They chose what IBM told them was best for them.
Tony
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| 762.11 | | KERNEL::BOWEO | Telepathy means never having to say... | Mon Jun 27 1994 11:03 | 19 |
|
I thinks its mainly down to what you're used to the Acorn Archimedes is a good
machine if it had SIMMs to upgrade the memory, some more software and less
expensive it could be dangerous, the new Acorn RISCpc does use SIMMs as well
as IDE and SCSI devices and an multiprocessor bus (allowing x86, 680x0, ARM
processors to cooperate)
And I don't own an Archimedes, I do own a PC I have a few friends who have
Acorns so I get a lot of this argument
The trouble Acorn has to combat is the cost of the boxes and the lack of
software.
If Acorn is partly owned (about 51%) by Olivetti and I think Digital has some
Olivetti shares (I read this somewhere) does that mean the AXP is related to
the ARM
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| 762.12 | | KERNEL::COFFEYJ | The Uk CSC Unix Girlie. | Mon Jun 27 1994 12:12 | 12 |
| >Title: Machine type is not terribly important
Not to mention there's no-one here who can guarentee that they can tell
exactly what will be the 'right machines for business to use' in the 15
years time it'll take for the kids to actually join this business stuff
having finished their school/college/uni years.
I would have thought the most appropriate thing for realism would be to
have different machines each lesson and expect then to program in
basic one week and intuitively catch on to c the next. :-)
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| 762.13 | | TASTY::JEFFERY | Children need to learn about X in school | Tue Jun 28 1994 09:34 | 5 |
| What about 14 & 15 year olds who may be going to a job less than 3 years from now.
Not everyone goes to University!
Mark.
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| 762.14 | | KERNEL::COFFEYJ | The Uk CSC Unix Girlie. | Tue Jun 28 1994 11:58 | 1 |
| I guess that's why they do work experience at that age.
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| 762.15 | | TASTY::JEFFERY | Children need to learn about X in school | Fri Jul 01 1994 10:38 | 12 |
| Well, exactly.
I know a neighbour who's Dad bought him an Archimedes, because that
is what they had at school, and the thing was completely useless.
When the kid did work experience at the AA, he realised how irrelevant
the Archimedes was, and has now persuaded his Dad to buy a PC.
The range of good software, and hardware is far greater, and holds more
relevance to what pupils will find in Business.
Mark.
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| 762.16 | thoughts on computers for schools. | ROCKS::KEANE | | Mon Jul 11 1994 13:56 | 72 |
|
Once again the argument rages over this brand and that brand of school
computer.
There appears to be three main uses for computers in schools...
1..AS a tool, to aid normal subjects, i.e. wordprocessor, calculator,
programable controller, etc.
2..AS a subject i.e Computer science,
3. AS a teacher, i.e. as Computer based instruction.
I have two children, now at college/university, who have been exposed
to "Computers", at school and at home, for most of their lives, so I
have some experience in this area.
Despite having computers in the classroom and in the computer labs at
my childrens' various schools, the first time computers REALLY became
useful to my children was when they started their GCSE courses. They
were faced with lots of reports, papers and projects to do. This was
when they discovered the use of a computer and its software as a
timesaving TOOL. They used various machines and various software
packages, with only one problem. THE SHEER FRUSTRATION OF BEING UNABLE
TO TYPE QUICKLY!
I believe that the only essential thing they should learn at school is
how to touch type!
Despite many attempts to improve/replacee it, the QWERTY keyboard has
remained a constant problem. (Dont try to tell me you type with a mouse
!!!)
The brand of machine and software and type of GUI is unimportant,
whether they use the same machine at school as at home as at work. It
only takes a short time to learn a new M/c GUI and application., In the
timescale of computers, a child from the age of 5 to 20 will go
through many flavours of machine of the moment, in use in the real
world.
The type of computer is unimportant in the Computer science class...
In some case the teacher and the teaching material can be years out
of date anyway!. (My son's computer science material was based on long
descriptions of card punches and verifiers.... I kid you not,..
Interactive computing got a couple of paragrahs! (This was in 1986)
Computer based instruction, can make it "fun" to learn basic skills,
that we old crumblies had to learn by rote, however, I believe
sometimes the amount of facts or skills learnt are sadly
disproportional to the amount of time spent on the computer. Some of
the computer based software is very very good, however some is like
putting the kids on a treadmill!.
Regarding Multimedia. My children have looked at Groliers, Hutchinsons,
snd MS Encarta encyclopaedia. All these products are ideal for the
secondary school environment. However they do not have sufficient
depth at 'A' level or university course level. There is an intersting
article in the PC mag this month which poses the question "Does the use
of multimedia images and sound, in fact detract from the written word.
For the sake of a few seconds of shaky video, several thousand words
have been lost".
Most of the CDROMS I see advertised, seem to fall into this category,
i.e. The current short sound and picture bite, that seems to be the
attention span of todays audiences, fun to use but not very useful!.
Serious CDROMS, e.g. the O.E.D. also have a serious price!
regards
Patrick.
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