Conference kepnut::euclid

    Has CTC agreed to support your Euclid users as they do your UGII
    users, or are you still going directly to Matra Datavision?
    
    Are your users still in the "learning-curve" or are they up to speed
    now? Has Euclid been instrumental in any development projects you
    are working on yet?
    
    What would you say the best feature of Euclid is with your experience
    so far?
    
    Steven

    We are still talking to CTC about their level of support. For the
    time being we have our own expert user and are being supported
    by Matra directly.
    
    We have not had enough time to get a large number of user to
    do actual design on the tool so the learning curve is difficult
    to judge. So far it appears similar to Unigraphics in that you 
    need to spend several month of heavy useage to come up to
    spead.
    
    See the next note for what we are doing next.
    
    thanks Charlie

    I would like to join this Euclid conference and contribute what
    I can.  I am a new hire who in his prior life headed the General
    Dynamics Convair Div selection of the core Mech. Design software,
    Euclid.  Perhaps I can share some of my experience as a member of
    the CIM project office and the selection criteria that was used
    at Convair.  
    
    

    We are glad to have anyone interested participate.
    
    We are currently trying to figure out how to integrate Euclid
    in to DEC manufacturing. We have a commitment from SIG [  MSB
    new product manufacturing  start up ]to use Euclid for new MSB
    products designed in Euclid . It appears we can save a lot
    of time in our process documentation by working off the solid
    models .  
    
    It is not clear what and how you want to control the data base.
    
    The equivolent to todays UG process would be 3 D IGES wireforms
    for part geometries and Postscript files for drawings [ yes both 
    are coming ]. The issue is the CSG trees and the BREPS .
    Things get more complex when you start using the molding package 
    [ which is great ] and get surfaced wireforms as well.
                                           
    Obviously we can use the data base manager to move whole projects,
    sub projects, and parts around. One thought is we should create  
    seperate archive projects that are static and world accessable
    which are seperate from the design projects. Since most [70%] of what
    we do is assemblies not parts things get more complex when the parts
    of the assemblies and subassemblies are spread around the net. The
    hierarchical design capabilities of Euclid are great for design
    but how do you revision control it in manufacturing since frequently
    what we build is not the latest rev do to phase in requirements.
    
    We would love to understand how other people plan to control information.
    

    
    We selected Euclid because of its database and the view that it
    is more an design-manuf integration tool than just a design tool.
    I suggest that you look closely at the doc files as a potential
    status storage location that everyone would look to for near term
    configuration management.  You must have a SysMgr for the local
    net to handle release to Mfg.  The use of Euclid is enhanced by
    the maturity of the design process and the formal nature of the
    communications between design and manufacturing functions.  If I
    had a better understanding of what the steps of our process are,
    I could better describe for you how we had envisioned the use of
    the Euclid software.
    
    	Let stop at saying that I have a series of slides/foils that
    describe the steps we took to first 1) Understand our process, 2)
    Define the requirements for Product Definition, and 3) Map our Process
    into the capabilities of Euclid.  I believe that this information
    might be helpful to you.  Give an address and I will mail it to
    
    
    
    
        you.
    
    	You can reach me @sdo or (619) 268-2782
    
    BBB
    
    

    DECs mechanical process is still stone age , we have only
    just gone from shipping paper drawings to microfiche for
    getting mechanical drawings to manufacturing.
    
    The official mechanical release process is to ship a .PLO file to the
    microfiche machine and make cards . The corporate group then mails 
    cards to all sites. In the projects I have been involved with
    this point is usually after we have build all protos and most pliot
    units and are 2-3 months away from volume shipments.
                                                  
    There is no uniform  process for even getting mechanical drawing
    plot files to mfg much less a solids data base. The best we 
    do in some plants and groups is put .PLO files for individual drawings
    in a world accessable area . 
    
    We still think of drawings not a mechanical design hierarchy.
    
    Euclid now allows us to do assemblies in a much more intelegent
    way but how do we convey the information and keep it under control?

    The problems are even worse than that once you look under the
    surface. So our challenge is how to migrate the whole process
    in a very short period of time . Since we are the only group
    in DEC actually doing a product design in Euclid we are all
    alone and have to blaze the trail.
 
    I will gladly accept any input on how others have used Euclid
    to enhanse the Eng-Mfg interface since we have no first hand
    experiance. Why reinvent the wheel is some one has already thought
    the problem thru.
    
    Thanks Charlie

    Hello,
    
    We are in need of your needs! We are Systems Engineering in Europe. We
    do characterization and performance testing of Euclid (see notes file
    Byeng0::SEE_MCAD_SYSTEMS node 49.750). Also we are in Phase 0 of a
    Conceptual and Cetailed Mechanical Design Solution System  (toolkits
    and platform, datamangement, interfaces, transfer...). We need to know
    your requirements. PLEASE START A NOTE AND LET US STAT COLLECTING THEM
    IN THIS NOTES FILE. You can help us help you (I hope).
    
    rel 2.5
    
    BBB, we are working with ESG on a project with your former employer. 
    I would be very interested in seeing your information and speaking with
    you. Your contribution to the above mentioned requirements would be
    appreciated.
    
    Regards,
    Richard
    
    
    

    GENERAL INFO: RE' EUCLID AND OTHER MCAD APPLICATION PACKAGES
    
    	1) THE RESPONSE TO MY FIRST REPLY HAS BEEN A STEADY REQUEST
    FOR SLIDES ON THE GENERAL DYNAMICS (GDC) THOUGHTS AND PLANS FOR EUCLID.
     TO THOSE WHO'S SLIDES ARE IN THE MAIL AND TO THOSE WHO HAVE ASKED
    FOR COPIES THE FOLLOWING:
    
    	A] WE TOOKS NEARLY 18MOS TO ANALYZE THE GDC ENVIRONMENT AND
    TO DEFINE IN A CRUDE WAY AT FIRST WHAT WE WANTED TO DO TO CHANGE
    OUR DESIGN AND MANUFACTURE PROCESS.  THE KEY HERE IS IN THE
    UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR RULES, TOOLS AND METHODS THAT HAVE BEEN
    ESTABLISHED OVER TIME.  THEN THE SYSTEMS ENGINEERING, OPERATIONS
    RESEARCH, DESIGN ENGINEERING, MANUFACTURING ENGINEERING, MATERIALS,
    PROCUREMENT, FINANCE, HUMAN RESOURCES, AND OTHERS SET DOWN AND TALK
    ABOUT HOW TO CALL A TRUCE ON TURF ISSUES.  WHILE THE TRUCE IS IN
    EFFECT, THIS GROUP STARTS TO DEFINE WHAT INFORMATION (DATA DICTIONARY)
    THEY NEED TO DO BUSINESS (PRODUCT DEFINITION). NOW YOU HAVE AN
    OBJECTIVE OR A GOAL AND IT SHOULD BE PRODUCT DEFINITION.  {THIS
    CONCEPT IS WHY WE CHOSE EUCLID FOR GDC.}  
    
    THIS WERE THE SLIDES I HAVE MAILED START AND YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND
    THAT WHEN YOU VIEW THEM.  THE PACKAGE THAT IS BEING MAILED IS THE
    BEST DESCRIPTION OF THE MAPPING OF THE GDC PROCESS ARCHITECTURE
    TO THE EUCLID DATA STRUCTURE AND DATA MANAGEMENT SYSTEM.  AS TO
    THE PROCESS ARCHITECTURE, IT IS NOT UNIQUE AND THEREFORE MAPS INTO
    THE CLASSIC SYSTEMS APPROACH TO ENGINEERING DESIGN AND ADDRESSES
    THE PREPARATION FOR OR TRANSITION TO PRODUCTION.  THIS PROCESS IS
    COMMON SENSE IN THAT 'IF SOMEONE NEEDS INFORMATION THEN YOU SHOULD
    PROVIDE IT IN THE MOST SHARE-ABLE FASHION WITHOUT REDUNDANCY.  
    CONTROL IT SO THAT USERS ARE RESTRICTED FROM CHANGING BASELINE.
     GET EVERYONE INVOLVED WHO HAS A STAKE IN THE DESIGN PROCESS WHERE 
    THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE AS EARLY IN THE GAME AS POSSIBLE.'  WHY?  TO
    REDUCE DESIGN CHANGE LATE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OR PRODUCTION CYCLE,
    ECONOMICS OF FACILITIES, RAW MATERIAL PURCHASE, PLANNING, DESIGN
    ESTIMATES. . .
    
    SO, I KNOW THERE WILL BE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SLIDES AND THE PROCESS.
    CALL OR WRITE AND I'LL ANSWER AS BEST I CAN REGARDING EUCLID.  OH,
    BY THE WAY, I DID PARTICIPATE IN THE GDC EVALUATION OF THE EUCLID DBMS
    VS. COMPUTERVISION DBMS'S SO I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE.