Conference 7.286::digital

Did you check the discussion from last year in note 4355?

Paul

    
    Digital closed some of the sites, at least until noontime yesterday. I
    called the main number around 7:30 and Security said all central MA
    sites were closed.  

Well, it looks like some people are being subjected to idiocy w.r.t.
yesterday's snow problems:
    
	[Seen in another conference:]

    	Yesterday afternoon at 3:30, the cost center manager sent
    	out a note stating that anyone who had "chosen" not to come
    	in (it ain't much of a choice when your street is unplowed)
    	had to submit a timecard for four hours of vacation, citing
    	"xxx snow policy".  xxx snow policy states "assume the plant
    	is open, unless a state of emergency has been declared".
    
Of course, the Governor of the state in which the above mentioned plant is
located _did_ formally declare a state of emergency, and the governor and
police were begging people to stay off the roads, and some of us live on
roads that were not plowed until evening or even until today...

Others of us are able to telecommute and don't have to worry about stupidity
as shown by the manager above.

/john

I called the PSN phone line today and asked what the policy was going to 
be regarding yesterdays storm.  I was told that Corporate was going to make
a decision and it would be announced.  I just received a call back from PSN
and I was told that a decision has not been made yet but it would be made
tomorrow in time for timecard submission.

I will keep you updated on the outcome.  

Our facility was 1 of those closed.

Pat

    Didn't some high muck-a-muck say something like 
    		"Don't do anything that angers the employees"
    
    What a joke...
    
    fwiw, I made it into PKO in the afternoon after snowblowing and
    chainsawing my way out of the development I live in. Felt like Hannibal
    dragging elephants over the Alps.
    
    Arriving on site, I noted that the guards outnumbered the employees...
    
    Didn't stay long: checked my voicemail and heard the SO letting me know
    that a tree had just fallen against the homestead, and could I please
    come home and take care of it...
    
    Oh well...

	re: .3 		Thank you John.

	re: .4		Thank you Pat.

	
	jb

    
    So if corporate says that anyone that did not make it in to work after
    their plant opened ( HLO 12 Noon ) has to put in for Vacation time, then 
    everyone in the facility from the Fab worker all the way up to the
    VP's should put in for 4 or 8 hrs of vacation time for Tuesday.  Most 	
    Fab workers work 12 hr shifts.
    
    This should also be the same for all of the rest of the falilities here	
    in Mass if your plant opened.
    
    So when did some of the other faclilties around Mass open?  
    
    
    
    	

    
    	Eastern MA facilities were all supposedly closed down until noon,
    	and at that time they opened.
    
    	If my manager wants me to put in for four hours of vacation time
    	then I have no problem doing so, since I didn't come in at all.
    

    
    
    Does anyone know what would be the policy if you work in NH and live in MA ?
    This policy doesn't seem consistent ???
    

As promised, I just heard from the PSN folks.  Corporate has decided to pay
us for a full working day.  So just submit your timecards accordingly, a
regular work day.

HOORAY

Pat

           re: -1
           
           YEAH, not too fair for those of us "fools" who came in, huh?
                                              
           Steve

This message was sent by Jose Ramirez in Employee Relations to site
managers on April 3:

>Subject: 	Tuesday - April 1 - 
>
>                ******** THIS MESSAGE IS FROM JOSE RAMIREZ **********
>
>This memo is to advise you that the Company has decided to make an exception
>to the severe weather policy and pay all employees in Southern New Hampshire
>and Eastern Massachusetts for their normal work schedule for Tuesday, April
>1, 1997.  Timecards should be filled out as they normally would, reflecting
>the employees regular work hours, unless the employee was ill or on vacation.
> 
>
>This decision was made for the following reasons:
>
>1.	The severe weather conditions made it impossible and was of such an
>	unusual nature that attendance at work was difficult at best for most of
>	our employees.
>
>2.	There was obvious confusion relative to the State of Emergency
>	announcement made by the Governor of Massachusetts.
>
>3.	The 800-DIGITAL number had a message for a limited period of time 
	stating that the company operations were closed for the day.
>
>Feel free to distribute this message to those you deem appropriate.  We have
>also taken the step of notifying U.S. Payroll.  
>
>If you have any questions feel free to contact me at 223-9584, or John Murphy
>at 223-9590.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jose
>

Payroll
ARL

    
    	What was so confusing about Weld's announcement?
    

    It was probably said in plain english, instead of management speak. 
    Something like "with this amount of snow, please save yourself and
    others' lives.  Stay the &*^% off the streets."  Probably damned
    confusing for someone who would said the same thing in 28 more
    polysyllabic words with facilitate or something like it included
    at least twice.
    
    
    
    

The confusion (which seems to still persist) was whether the State of Emergency
actually had anything to do with travel at all.

It didn't.

The State of Emergency (which was still in effect this morning) authorized
unallocated funds to be spent and also allowed the National Guard to help
in the cleanup.

The Governor and Police asked people to stay off the roads except in the
case of an emergency, but the roads were never officially closed.  

The statement from Corporate posted a few replies earlier is a carefully
worded response which basically says "you should have come in to work,
but since you might have believed that the roads were closed and didn't,
we'll make an exception to our policy that you have to be at work if the
facilities are open and pay you anyway."

Digital is doing the right thing, but being very mealy-mouthed and reluctant
about it.

/john

  Part of the confusion is that during the 1978 blizzard, the governor DID
ban all passenger car travel for four days. I half expected the governor to
ban passenger car travel in certain areas on Tuesday. But I'm glad he didn't.
  FWIW, in 1978 we got paid for all four days that the travel ban was in
effect.

    
    	I didn't get paid for anything during the blizzard of '78.
    
    	Sixth grade really sucked that way.
    

    You mean you still had to go to school?!  We were off all but 5 days in
    February of 1978.

    
    	No, I didn't have to go to school, but we also didn't get paid
    	for it.
    
    	There was some humor lurking in my last reply, but you've all
    	but sucked the last bit out of it.
    

re: Blizzard of '78

I did get paid - my best snow storm ever with the snow blower.  People could
drive their cars all the way to the end of their driveway - but that was
it.  I wasn't going to do the entire street with the damn thing!

bjm

    .17
    
    >> Sixth grade really sucked that way
    
    You really made it to the sixth grade Slab?
    
    

    He sure did, but it cost him a pretty penney (and some ugly ones too).
    :-)

>The statement from Corporate posted a few replies earlier is a carefully
>worded response which basically says "you should have come in to work,
>but since you might have believed that the roads were closed and didn't,
>we'll make an exception to our policy that you have to be at work if the
>facilities are open and pay you anyway."

    I was told before the storm that the facility would only close "if the
    governor declared a state of emergency."  The governor did declare a
    state of emergency.  When I called the 800 number it said the facility
    was closed for the day.  Apparently an announcement was made on WBZ at
    about 6:45 that Digital was closed, although I didn't hear it myself.
    Seems like a pretty clear message to stay home to me . . . .   Now
    people are saying that it was the wrong kind of state of emergency, and
    the phone message was a mistake, but perhaps some people misunderstood,
    so Digital will be generous. Huh?  I was prepared to come in on time,
    but stayed home because I was told to.  Nobody said to check back at
    noon.  Did the Advertising Department handle this mixed message? ;-)
    
    In 1985, there was a hurricane approaching New England.  I flew home
    from Pittsburgh the day before to be with my family, knowing that the
    storm was following me. However, the next morning Digital was open. 
    They closed at 10 a.m., and said everybody who didn't come in had to
    take a vacation day.  My opinion at the time was that I had gambled
    that they would have to close and won, but they didn't see it that way. 
    Whoever decided to stay open was wrong.  What particularly irritated me
    was that because I was travelling, I had no chance to batten down the
    hatches, so I stayed home.  
    
    After the "Blizzard of '78", there was some emergency meeting as to
    whether to pay non-exempt employees, and the rumor was that KO won and
    everybody got paid for the four days.  Earlier that winter I had driven
    in the 20 miles through the snow to discover that the Mill would close
    at 9 a.m.  There were more people leaving than going into the building.
    Same pay policy as above.  
    
    This week was the first time I can Digital deciding it was open after
    all.
    
    Ben

    I only listen to WBZ when there is a chance of Digital being closed.
    I heard the radio to say 	"Digital would delay opening until noon".  
    
    Did that change?  I came into work. It was quite lonely...
    
    Don

It never changed.  The initial announcement on WBZ was that only the
Hudson plant was closed, and that only until noon.

Later, not until sometime after 7:30, the announcement was extended to
state that all Eastern Massachusetts locations would open at noon.

At no time were the New Hampshire locations closed.  And all locations
were open after noon.

Whether they should have been open -- under the conditions that existed
and with the governor asking people to stay off the roads if at all possible
-- is a very good question.

/john

>    After the "Blizzard of '78", there was some emergency meeting as to
>    whether to pay non-exempt employees, and the rumor was that KO won and
>    everybody got paid for the four days.

  I'm sorry to hear that (apparently) not all of the senior VPs were in favor
of people getting paid for these days. If we had not gotten paid, the damage
in employee morale would have exceeded any monetary savings, IMO.
  I heard that some companies didn't pay their people for these days, and the 
employees were really ticked off about it.

    I can't fault the company for at least having a conversation about what
    to do. 
    
    After all, the weather cannot be blamed on the company. The companies
    that did pay their employees should be applauded. Companies that did
    not could have made that decision based on a number of economic
    reasons.
    
    Sounds like more of the "entitlement syndrome" moaning to me.
    
    Chip

    Is it then reasonable to expect that everyone who found it difficult to
    come to work that day but who wants/expects to be paid will come in
    some Saturday when the roads are more passable to do the work that did
    not get done that day?
    I wonder

    You wonder??  Does that mean that you don't log in from home most
    nights and weekends using Excursion to get some real work done without
    distractions, like many of us do?  Or that you don't put in 10 hour
    days in one of these cute little cubies?
    

    re: .29
    
>    Does that mean that you don't log in from home most
>    nights and weekends using Excursion to get some real work done without
>    distractions, like many of us do?  
    
    Excursion?  Why would you need Excursion?  Just tell the remote system
    to redirect the X directives over your PPP link to your X session
    and...
    
    Oh I get it!  You're running one of those O/S's that doesn't have
    native X Windows support!  You know... one of those O/S's that doesn't
    support multiple concurrent users and had TCP/IP added as an
    afterthought...  designed for common household functions like playing 
    games and keeping an accurate inventory of cocktail weenies stored
    in the cupboard...
    
    Using an O/S like that to do real work?  You really SHOULD get paid
    overtime...  Ughhh...
    
    I getcha.  Okay, please continue...
    
    8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  8^}  

    re -1
    
    Hey, it'll do until I get Linux installed.  But the system is paid for,
    and it's all mine -- just like my old Chevy. 
    
    ;)
    Tony

Our hero should speak more quietly.

>    Oh I get it!  You're running one of those O/S's that doesn't have
>    native X Windows support!

eXcursion *is* native X Windows support. What do *you* think it is? How long 
after UNIX was developed do you think X Windows came along?

>  You know... one of those O/S's that ... had TCP/IP added as an
>    afterthought...

Oh, please. And UNIX was designed with networking in mind? Let alone TCP/IP?

>    Using an O/S like that to do real work?  You really SHOULD get paid
>    overtime...  Ughhh...

I could say the same about UNIX. People who live in glass houses...

Now that we've started another nice little "mine's better than yours" war, you 
go and use what you're comfortable with, and we'll go and use what we're 
comfortable with. It's bad enough we have to put up with this kind of stuff from 
elsewhere without generating it ourselves.

And no, I don't care how many smilies you put on it.

PJDM

    
    	I should start buying popcorn by the bushel if I'm going to keep
    	reading this conference.
    

    re: popcorn - I'll help buy in bulk too ;')

    re: .32
    
    Such a tirade over a little pointed humor trying to get people to
    consider Linux as a viable platform for OUR PROFIT.
    
    eXcursion is our third-party add-on to try to make the proprietary MS
    O/S's do what Linux, DIGITAL's unspoken 4th O/S, does by intent.  I'm
    glad we have eXcursion -- we can use the cash and market presence.  But
    it's time to open our eyes just a _little_ wider.
    
    If you want to sit by and hope that MS is kind enough to cut DIGITAL a
    break and push Alpha as the WNT/64 platform, so be it.  I hope they do
    too.
    
    But I for one do NOT intend to "speak more quietly" while DIGITAL
    stands to profit from acknowledging a growing market that it has clear 
    technical leadership in: the truly Open O/S called Linux.
    
    We need more DIGITAL people willing to look at it and try it.  Then we
    may begin to understand the groundswell of grassroots support which is
    building out there.
    
    You like the MS stuff?  Great.  Go pray that our partner sells our
    gear.  Me?  I'm gonna stay on this course.  We've got to start building
    our opportunities, instead of begging our "partners" to leave us a few.
    
    Just don't expect me to roll over and die because you disagree.  Sorry,
    but it just ain't gonna happen.
    
    -- Russ

    Ok, I'll bite, If Linux is so cool, how about some pointer? How about a
    comparison between what I have now (W95) and Linux? Will it run
    Netscape browsers? What is available that the average Joe can use?
    
    What will it cost me, and what will it do for me?
    
    .mike.

    re: .36
    
>    Ok, I'll bite, If Linux is so cool, how about some pointer? How about a
>    comparison between what I have now (W95) and Linux? Will it run
>    Netscape browsers? What is available that the average Joe can use?
>    
>    What will it cost me, and what will it do for me?
    
    Try this link:	http://www.li.org/	(Linux International)
    
    Press the Introduction button and take a look at the subsections.  That
    should give you a fairly quick overview, along with pointers for
    distributions on the Internet.  If you decide to play with it and would
    prefer the ease of a CD-based load, you can obtain distributions at
    many computer shows for less than $20.  Otherwise, you can copy it from
    the Internet for free.
    
    For a Digital-based discussion, try the notesfile at:
    
    			NLFDC::LINUX-USERS
    
    Short overview: Linux is a freely available Unix clone that runs on
    multiple hardware architectures, most notably Intel PCs and Alphas.
    Standard distributions include a rather full group of Unix tools, X
    Windows (with multiple window managers available; Motif has to be
    purchased, if needed, because of licensing restrictions), TCP/IP, and
    numerous shareware & freeware tools like ghostscript (for postscript),
    xv (for viewing graphics), emacs, GNU C/C++, other GNU compilers, etc.
    
    Other web-retrievable tools include things like Netscape browsers,
    games like Doom and Quake, old standbys like kermit and sz/rz, Anker
    Berg-Sonne's SEDT editor, etc.
    
    Personally, I use a RedHat distribution on my home 486 -- it crawls
    under Windows 3.1, but it zips by under Linux.  I use the fvwm window
    manager to give me 4 virtual desktops, generally hosting a half dozen
    xterm sessions, 3 or 4 telnet sessions into machines at work over a
    PPP connection on my 28.8 modem, and a Netscape browser.  I can run
    remote X Windows apps from the machines at work, when needed (e.g.,
    Bookreader).  When I'm in the office, I can telnet back to my 486 to do
    work if I left the PPP link up, or just dial into the 486 if the link
    wasn't left up.
    
    There's a passable DOS emulator, an MS Windows emulator in development,
    and even a version of fvwm which emulates W95's look-and-feel.
    
    I have MS DOS/Windows 3.1 installed on my box as well.  It gets used
    when my kids want to play games.
    
    If you use OpenVMS or Unix at work, Linux can be a highly efficient
    desktop, capable of supporting multiple concurrent users and (*gasp*)
    running for days on end without a reboot.
    
    There's _lots_ more Linux can do.  For more info, check out the 
    LINUX-USERS conference.
    
    -- Russ

    can someone please call RATHOLE???
    
    until either operating system gets out on the road and clears the snow
    off it I wont be happy with either. People use systems for different
    things, that's why we have little things like market segmentation.
    
    As for sending X calls down a modem line, I'd rather go to work, snow
    storm or not.

    
    	No.
    
    	Monkey see, monkey do.
    

>>    until either operating system gets out on the road and clears the snow
>>    off it I wont be happy with either. 

isn't time we lead others rather than wait, watch and follow ..?

    re: .41
    
    Because that isn't a core competency anymore. Once we directly linked
    our success to whatever Microsoft wants to do for us, we gave up trying
    to be a leader.

    
    	RE: .41/.40
    
    	Jay, what are you doing to me here?
    
    	.40 is a reply to .41, believe it or not, because at one time .40
    	was where it should have been ... namely, before .41.
    

The notes must have had too much KY, then.

Paul

What's Kentucky got to do with it?

PJDM

    RE .37
    
    Thanks, I'll check it out,  I appreciate the info.
    
    .mike.

Mike, 

Linux doesn't need any KY to be slick...
(Sorry, I couldn't let that opportunity slide by).

And at the risk of beating a dead horse (topic skew), the price for 
Linux is free from the gatekeeper.dec.com mirror site.

I have two Linux 486 boxes serving as Domain Name Servers within 
.dec.com for a sub-sub-domain.  Works fine, stays up for months, and 
was cheaper than setting up more Alpha or old MIPS systems for DNS.

The "market segmentation" remark that someone made earlier is 
difficult for me to understand.  It is unclear to me from customer 
observation which market a particular OS is addressed to.  Each 
customer I visit seems to have their own interpretation of what works 
for them.  I see Linux used by derivative bond traders in Wall Street 
back offices (free development tools for C++ "market bible" 
development) as well as the oft-mentioned users/abusers in the 
"education market".

Bottom line for me:  I don't write Linux off as a niche low-volume 
market.  It has promise (and a lot of utility).

David

> Bottom line for me:  I don't write Linux off as a niche low-volume 
> market.  It has promise (and a lot of utility).

    Judging from the Digital press release of 4/14 comparing the cost
    of ownership of an NT system vs. a Unix system, we are clearly on a
    road away from Unix.  So in that context, I don't expect we'll see much
    official support for Linux unless and until someone else makes it a big
    market.
    

    
    re: .48
    
>    Judging from the Digital press release of 4/14 comparing the cost
>    of ownership of an NT system vs. a Unix system, we are clearly on a
>    road away from Unix.  So in that context, I don't expect we'll see much
>    official support for Linux unless and until someone else makes it a big
>    market.
    
    Too bad.  Especially since Red Hat Linux 4.0 was named Desktop
    Operating System of the Year for 1996 by Infoworld magazine.  It tied
    for the honor with MS Windows NT Workstation 4.0.  If Infoworld can
    mention these O/S's for the same award without blushing, why can't we
    own up to selling the best Linux hardware around?
    
    Corporations are looking at Linux and are impressed.  Linux people look
    at Alphas and are impressed.  We look at a rapidly growing market and are
    unimpressed.
    
    It's amazing how fast we are willing to run in order to avoid success...
    
    *sigh*
    
    -- Russ

    I support a major cusotmer, with 4x 8460's 20+ 2100's 6+4100's. All run
    Digital Unix.
    
    They recently had need of a news server for a group of employees in a
    University sponsored program. They wanted  a simple, dedicated box,
    that would just run and need minimun attention. I installed Slackware
    Linux on an old 486 Gateway. I bought a book with CD at the local
    bookstore for about $30 so they have a kit.
    
    News was included on the CD.
    
    So for $30 and a couple hours of my time they have a neat solution to a
    problem.
    
    and Linux has its nose under the tent!