Conference 7.286::digital

    Try:
    
    	http://www-ccs.wro.dec.com/NT
    
    I just filled out the on-line forms.  Good luck.
    
    Nancy

    I went thru the CCS web page and received the account with passwords
    the very next day.  Impressed.  Just make sure your PC is set up to use
    it, because exchange users will be sending you mail from the get go!

        Can one sign up for an exchange mail account and simply have
        all mail forwarded to another address?

        Bob

    You can use the "inbox assistant" (under the tools menu) to set up
    forwarding.

Exchange forwarding does not work like ALL-IN-1 forwarding.

With ALL-IN-1, original information like the sender is maintained, and the only
difference you see is a different network path taken.  The message is not stored
on the ALL-IN-1 system.

With Exchange, mail forwarded to my OpenVMS system all has my name as the sender
and "FW" in front of the subject.  The message is also stored on the Exchange
system.

Actually, the ALL-IN-1 forwarding was more like redirecting.

Paul

    Warning!  If you sign up for Exchange mail, plan to install it and
    check it immediately.  You *WILL* be receiving mail from Exchange users
    from creation of your account onward.  They will not know whether you
    are checking it or not.
    
    - Dave

> Can one sign up for an exchange mail account and simply have
> all mail forwarded to another address?

	What you really want I believe (and what I wanted) is not an
	exchange account at all, but to simply have them define an
	alias for you on the systems running:

		Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Connector

	I never finished trying to find the maintainers of those
	systems to see if the MEIMC supports the equiv of sendmail's
	"aliases" file.

re: .-1

        I never finished trying to find the maintainers of those
        systems to see if the MEIMC supports the equiv of sendmail's
        "aliases" file.

Yes it will...I "hacked" this out since no-one in the ms-exchange notes 
conference had an answer.  See note 723 in the ms-exchange notes 
conference.  Note, this requires CCS to create a "custom recepient" for 
you instead of an Exchange mailbox.  I logged a call to CCS and these 
folks told me they don't want to support this feature.  I have since 
installed my own Exchange server (with the proper MX records in the 
higher level DNS server) to receive mail on my Exchange server 
addressed to <username>@fzo.dec.com.  The performance is much better 
than the CCS implementation and I don't have to hassle with CCS.  I 
don't have access to the CCS public folders and the Global Address List 
(I send mail to "firstname"."lastname"@<locationcode>.mts.dec.com).  A 
20K+ address list is not very usable to me, since the "flat" namespace 
makes it hard to figure out which "John Smith" is the correct user you 
want to send mail.  Any "Public Folder" information is usually 
accessible via a Web browser.  

Get together with the technical folks in your location and setup your 
own Exchange server.  Less hassles with the centralized "glass house" 
advocates.

John Frandsen
NSIS

    I'm suprise you got any help at all. I was caught be the Network police
    and told that it is against company police to forward mail outside of
    Digital.    If I could I would forward it all to my favorate ISP 
    mail account. 

    |against company police

    Freudian slip, but a good one.

    >I'm suprise you got any help at all. I was caught be the Network police
    >and told that it is against company police to forward mail outside of
    >Digital.    If I could I would forward it all to my favorate ISP 
    >mail account. 


Ray,

According to the memo I read, you can have your mail forward to an ISP, but 
it would require a VP signature approval (James Mobley in our case).

John Frandsen
NSIS

Re: forwarding of mail outside of .dec.com

>I'm suprise you got any help at all. I was caught be the 
>Network police and told that it is against company police 
>to forward mail outside of Digital. If I could I would 
>forward it all to my favorate ISP mail account. 

I didn't think .8 was talking about forwarding mail
outside of .dec.com, but rather of creating a private
Exchange server inside of .dec.com but separate from
the corporate Exchange system. Our group have had this
configuration for around the last 18 months,since
the Exchange v4.0 beta program, but have now been forced 
to migrate to the corporate Exchange system.

Well...since I'm .8, I was talking about setting up an Exchange 
Server inside of .dec.com., but with VP approval you can have your 
mts address set to forward mail outside .dec.com to an ISP account.

>the corporate Exchange system. Our group have had this
>configuration for around the last 18 months,since
>the Exchange v4.0 beta program, but have now been forced 
>to migrate to the corporate Exchange system.

As I said in .8, if you can live without CCS public folders and the 
20K GAL, do as I have done...setup your own Exchange server with 
SMTP address of the type: [email protected] (XXX = location code) 
and live "independent and free" of CCS.

John Frandsen
NSIS

    At one point there was talk of joining up the tunnel program for sales
    workbench having all SWB user's mail delivered to their ISP's pop
    server.
    
    This was almost a year ago and I haven't heard anything more.
    
    FJP

    re: Note 5138.12 by XSTACY::imladris.ilo.dec.com::grainne
    
    How have you been 'forced'?
    
    To add to what John said in .13, you also don't need to use Exchange.
    Netscape Mail Server 2.0 does IMAP4 very nicely, and we have a
    corporate license for it (whereas Exchange Server (and NT Server) must
    be purchased). 
    
    Ken....
    

A portion of what's at http://pcbu.ako.dec.com/

Licenses For Microsoft Operating Systems

From: Robert H. Cohen

Effective: 1 April 1996 (Q3 FY96 - end Q3 FY98)

Digital continues to make strides to improve the ability of its
employees to obtain key software packages quickly and in a cost
effective manner. We have secured greater flexibility and lower costs
for P.C. users as part of our Microsoft Select Internal-Use Agreement.

We have signed a worldwide agreement providing licenses for the
operating systems to the corporation for a single fee, currently paid
by the CIO. No-one should be purchasing Operating System licenses for
the term of this license.

Re: .16

That announcement includes NT 3.51 not NT 4.0, it would have to be amended
to include NT 4.0.  It also doesn't distinguish between the workstation
license and server license.  One would be remiss to assume it includes
an NT Server license when the message appears to be aimed at people who
were using windows 3.1/3.11 and want to move to windows 95 (i.e. workstation
type usage).

I heard that someone has said that NT 4.0 was going to be added to the
list, but haven't heard when that would be.

I beleive the corporate licensing agreement has recently been updated to 
include NT 4.0 and Office97.


						-Paul

Do you know where to find that (non-vms answer preferable..)

Do you know if that really includes NT Server?  (Seeing as
how I have an outstanding software license request for a
few of those server licenses).

Is there a special way of ordering the media so we don't pay another license
fee?

Check VTX PCsoftware. I understand it lists there media only.

/OLD

    The most recent MS agreement I saw was last month.  Its bottom line was
    that the Microsoft license agreement covers every installation (new and 
    upgrade) of Microsoft Office (Office V4.x, Office 95, Office 97) as well 
    as every installation (new and upgrade) of Microsoft Windows 95 and 
    Windows NT Workstation (V3.x and V4.x).  It does not cover any version 
    of Microsoft Windows NT Server.
    
    Mike 

NT 4.0 Workstation and NT 4.0 Server differ *only* by a few registry 
entries and license issues.  It's not too suprising that we opted to 
license only the cheeper NT 4.0 Workstation.

CSS maintains the on-line kits at the following URL.  Check for a CSS 
server closest to you.

http://www-ccs.wro.dec.com/nt/kits/


							-Paul

 
One must have NT Server if one is working with some
Backoffice products, so it will matter for some people.

    I'm trying to send email to Ed Charest (that's the only way that
    DIAL products can be ordered from his group, we have to send
    email from our Cost Center manager's account).  He believes
    his address is [email protected]@internet, but that bounces with 
    
       ----- Transcript of session follows -----
    421 internet.pa.dec.com (smtpl)... Deferred: Not owner
    554 [email protected]@internet... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative
    answer from name server): Not owner
    
    So, I tried sending to [email protected] but that gets:
    
    The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
    
          [email protected] on 2/20/97 14:46:14 PM
                Recipient Not Found
                MSEXCH:IMC:Digital:AmExch1:MROHUB1
    
    Sending to his VMS address doesn't work, because VMS email is not
    forwarded to Exchange.  Anyone have a clue as to how I can address
    email to him?  Thanks.
    
                   

    Try losing the underscore.  ELF says he's at [email protected]
    
    Leslie

    Re: .27
    
    (For fans of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe, as the hero said
    from the guts of the enemy warship, "Safe?  You say we're safe?  This
    must be some new definition of the word safe, one I have previously
    not encountered...")
    
    Common Name:   EDWARD CHAREST 
    Search Surname:  CHAREST  Search Given Name:  EDWARD,  EDWARD E  
    DTN:  275-2931,  275-2931  Intrnl Mail Addr:  DAS1-2/Q4  Location:  DAS  
    Node:  WMOIS  Username:  CHAREST_E  Org Unit:  NETWORKS BU
    
    But I'll try [email protected], thanks.
    

Check http://www-elf.bb.dec.com/ , which is ELF V3.

re: .24

Well it contains a nice pointer to the kits alright, but it doesn't list the 
CDROM key that's required to actually install the software.  Is there another 
page somewhere that gives the keys?

    RE: .28
    
    ELF V3 shows the following:
    
    Edward Charest
        Given Name: Edward   Initials: EEC   Surname: Charest   Site: DAS
        DTN: 275-2931   Phones: 275-2931   Search GivenName: Edward E, Edward
        Search Surname: Charest   Mail Stop: DAS01-02/Q4   Country Code: US
        Preferred Mailbox: InternetAddress
        Internet Address: [email protected]   MR Address: Edward Charest@DAS
        VMS Mail Address: WMOIS::CHAREST_E
    
    - Dave

    I was using WINELF, fwiw.
    
    Why can't all these elves get their story straight? :->
    
    Leslie

    CD key? Try 123-1234567. Worked with NT WS V4 for me, I think. I do
    have a legit key too but you're not having that one...

    I sent mail to the maintainer of the CCS kits page and he sent me a CD
    key. He also said he was rebuilding the kits so they wouldn't need a CD
    key.
    
    Pete

    According the the Exchange Global Address Book, it's
    [email protected], so ELF is correct.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

Microsoft CD-key is composed of two numbers, seperated by a dash.  The 
first number can be anything, the digits of the second number must add up 
to seven.  So, 1111-1111111 is a valid key.  The key is only needed to 
start the installation and for Microsoft telephone support.  If you make up 
a key, then just don't try to call Microsoft telephone support.


							-Paul

    re .36:
    
    >1111-1111111 is a valid key.  The key is only needed to 
    
    I think the first part is only 3 digits...
    
    Besides, if you modify one of the .INF files, it won't ask for a key in
    the first place...
    
    

    my Office97 CDROM came with a key with the first part being 4 digits

How long is it going to take for this Exchange debacle to get straightened
out?

I just a few minutes ago received a message mailed TUESDAY MORNING!

That's over 100 hours for a message within the same building.

/john

Hmmmm,

The air must be cleaner, up here in MKO.  This morning, I got Exchange mail
that was "Received" time-stamped at 11:33am.  Since I was reading the mail at
8:15am, I thought that was impressive.  Way to go, Bill.  Deliver mail before
it is written.  :-) 


Dave

>> Way to go, Bill.  Deliver mail before it is written.  :-) 

I'll be impressed when I can receive a reply before I send the message.

						Brian

re Note 5138.41 by DECCXL::WIBECAN:

> >> Way to go, Bill.  Deliver mail before it is written.  :-) 
> 
> I'll be impressed when I can receive a reply before I send the message.
  
        That surely would cut down on misunderstandings, wouldn't it?

        Bob

    Uh, did you check the _year_ in the date sent?

So, being the curious fella that I am, I thougth I'd make an unscientific test.

I sent mail from Exchange account to my VMS Mail on my (slow, but reliable)
3100. The mail left Exchange at 11:20 and was received on my 3100 at 11:23; all 
time stamps looked OK.  I replied.  The reply left my 3100 on 11:24 and beeped 
my Exchange account within a few minutes.  The time-stamp out of my 3100 said 
it was sent at 11:24.  The "Received" column in Exchange said it was received 
at 4:24pm, and the message header said it was sent at 4:24 pm.

Don't know why everyone is complaining, I am sending/receiving mail in a timely 
manner.  :-)

Dave

    Yep, I usually see pretty good times between VAXmail and Exchange. 
    A few minutes.
    
    I generally see about 10-20 minutes between ALL-IN-1 and Exchange.
    
    But when things bog down...
    
    FJP

    I just went up on exchange and tried sending a message from exchange
    to vaxmail, and then vaxmail to exchange.  The latter worked in
    2 minutes, but the former never came back.  The next day I tried
    exchange to vaxmail and it worked in 2 minutes (thought I might
    have glitched the internet address or something).  So, both directions
    worked - but still that first time that never came back....
    
    .....until this weekend when the first one returned - 3 days after
    the original send.  Kind of curious why sometimes it works in 
    2 minutes, but other times it works in 3 days.  Makes me wonder 
    how well this will work once I totally abandon vaxmail......
    
    andy
    

    I can send mail between Exchange and VMSmail in a second or two. 
    
    My Exchange server is located at my site (HLO) is this not true for
    most people?
    
    -Bruce

    I received a message on VMS yesterday (Sunday) in HLO that was sent
    from an Exchange account in MRO last Thursday morning.
    
    Another problem:  How does one send an MS Word (or whatever) document
    from either VMS or TeamLinks to Exchange and have it arrive in a
    decipherable format?  My receivers in MRO claim they can't read my Word
    documents no matter how I send 'em -- VMS foreign file, TeamLinks
    uuencoded, not encoded... :-(
    
    M

    Greetings all,
    
    I've tried for the second time to autoforward from the 
    old VAX to my exchange account. I've been reminded (for 
    the second time) to stop it because of all the anger from 
    customers who get bounced mail messages. Its hard to imagine
    this is ever going to be as reliable as vaxmail.
    
    Fred

    	Bounced?  If you use smtp% for forwarding I doubt you'll see this. 
    Are you using this or one of the gateways (USnRMC)?
    
    	Leo

    smtp% is what I used along with 3 sets of quotes! 
    
    Fred

>    smtp% is what I used along with 3 sets of quotes! 

FWIW - on one of our nodes running an old version of UCX, it appeared
that the syntax smtp%node.xxx.yyy.zzz::username worked considerably
better than the triple-quote version.  (For whatever reason, the mail
to the triple quote form didn't seem to get delivered, while the other
form did.)  I don't know if this was just a quirk of our system,
or coincidence of some kind, but I haven't seen problems since changing
the syntax.  (FWIW - I'm not forwarding to an Exchange server, though
it is to an NT system.)

    RE:  Doesn't everyone have an Exchange server at their site?
    
    Answer is NO.  Entire Canadian geography is served by a machine out of
    Kanata at the moment.  So from our regional head office in Toronto we
    must go across a WAN to get our mail.  Imagine that .... I send an
    e-mail with attachment to the guy 10 feet from me and it has to move
    from Toronto to Kanata from which point he gets to pull it all back
    down the thin pipe.  The CCS version of distributed computing appears
    to be:
    
    Centralize all computers and distribute the people who connect to it. 

    I am a Sales Workbench user of Exchange who recently began using it in
    a bigger way.  I have always been comfortable with All-in-1 mail, and
    was quite leery of moving to a Microsoft-developed product.  That same
    trepidation can be found in some of the replies in this particular
    Notes stream.  Let me explain in five simple words why we need to adopt
    Exchange over any of our internally developed mail products:
    
    IT'S BETTER FOR OUR CUSTOMERS!
    
    In sales I work back and forth with our customers on Excel
    spreadsheets, Word documents, and Powerpoint presentations.  Yes, you
    could do some of this work with Teamlinks, but not as crisply as with
    Exchange.  The integration and merging of files is very smooth, and my
    customers can finally read all my attachments without any difficulty. 
    We've been waiting for this for years, and it is finally here.  Yes,
    there are issues around the networks we have instituted (not Exchange's
    fault - fix the networks that need fixing), and not everyone is fully
    cognizant of how Exchange works yet (play with it as you would any
    other s/w product, and run in parallel with your other mail systems in
    the meantime.  I did and can now use it fairly well, and I'm certainly
    not as bright as many of the respondees on this message stream.)
    
    I realize this is a big change for many, especially those who have been
    with the company for awhile using other mail products.  I'll be here 15
    years in March, God willing, and I'm still learning new tricks.  Give
    it a shot.  Good Luck.
    
    Chuck

    re: .51
    
       3 sets of quotes?  I've been using
    smtp%"[email protected]", or for Exchange,
    smtp%"[email protected]" without a problem, UCX 3.3 and higher
    though, I believe, mostly V4.

        And I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that while working
    yesterday I was moved from the server Dasexc1 to Kyoexc1 at about 10A. 
    All documents became unreadable and inaccessible at that moment, and I
    have not been able to access Exchange since then.  I was not given any
    notice, I was not given any information nor has it been forthcoming as
    of this writing, plus this was done while I was online and active. Yes,
    I do work for CCS, but this is not a prototype anymore.
    
    	Leo


    

>    My Exchange server is located at my site (HLO) is this not true for
>    most people?
    
    Some sites have servers; some do not.  Some groups, such as the SBU,
    have their own servers, but not in the same sites.  With the way people
    move around, it is difficult to keep track of where people are. 
    Support has enough work to do to get people moved without changing
    something that will continue to work.  If there is a problem with the
    local server, people want to be moved back to their old one, which
    "worked better".
    
    Oddly enough when you move to a different server, your address in
    distribution lists may or may not continue to work, depending on
    whether the servers are in the same group.  So a lot of time is spent
    moving people and troubleshooting the problems.   When you move, your
    INBOX has to be changed on all your PC's, so they like to have send
    somebody to do that.  So, if people are travelling, they often don't get
    moved.  
    
    I would like to say this will settle down when people do, but I doubt
    that people will stop moving around.  I don't think the problems in
    this case are more or less severe than with ALL-IN-1.
    
    Ben

    i've been autoforwarding ALL-IN-1 and VMSmail to Exchange for at least
    2 months.  have had no reports of bounces or complaints from anyone. 
    and as far as i know, i haven't lost any mail.  i did have one "1 week
    delivery", but the post time coincided witha published reconfig on the
    Exchange end ("warning: CCS Outage blah blah blah" type mail a few days
    in advance).
    
    i'm beginning to think this is server-specific.
    
    my biggest gripe about Exchange/Outlook is that it is a *pig*.  takes
    forever to come up and/or shutdown.

    re: Note 5138.56 by SHRMSG::HOWARD
    
    > When you move, your
    > INBOX has to be changed on all your PC's, so they like to have send
    > somebody to do that.
    
    Not true. There's some mechanism in Exchange Server that can
    automagically tell the client what server to use. A few months ago,
    CCS changed the server I was on without telling me. Everytime I would
    change the server back to my old one in the Exchange Client,
    reconnecting would get it set to the new server.
    
    Ken....
    

    11:24pm EST is 4:24pm GMT.  OpenVMS doesn't do timezones without
    assistance, and that's not Exchange's problem. 
    
    I've been investigating this stuff for awhile now, enough to probably
    contribute a little bit here of a constructive nature that might
    actually help out some.
    
    I would suggest that unofficial and/or unscientific studies of the
    matter probably won't yield reliable, repeatable, or even useful
    results.  Don't bother - there are too many variables involved to
    figure out what went wrong when you sent one message today and it
    didn't work the same way you thought it did yesterday.  And *please* stop
    beating up CCS - they're already struggling with a complex and
    unmanageable situation, and not only do they not need the noise, it's
    unjustified, presumptuous and totally uninformed.  I've found nothing
    of which CCS has been accused herein to be the least bit justified or
    even slightly accurate.  It just irritates, and it's unprofessional.
    
    BTW, I'm not in CCS.  I'm in OpenVMS Network Engineering.
    
    A couple of constructive suggestions, though:
    
    Run the latest version of UCX.  V4.1, ECO 3 or better.  Configure the
    SMTP service to put headers on the top of messages - by default it puts
    them on the bottom to keep them out of the way, but that gets in the
    way of attachments and POP.  Why is that the default?  Because VMSmail
    doesn't understand RFC822 headers enough to filter them out, making
    it a feature to move them to the end, out of the way.  Sometimes.
    
    Use the UCX POP3 server if you need it.  The older the Version of UCX
    you're running, the less likely it is to work.  POP3 didn't exist until
    V4.1 and many problems from V4.0, V3.3 and prior releases have been
    fixed in SMTP.  Upgrade.
    
    For addressing outside of the Exchange environment, stick with SMTP
    (RFC822 style, you know '[email protected]' is mine, for example)
    The format, transport and interface is well defined, and officially
    supported by both Microsoft and Digital.  It works, and when it breaks,
    it'll get fixed.  It'll handle MIME, at least as far as passing
    attachments to other applications like PC's that can parse it.  VMSmail
    doesn't understand the content, but at least it will leave it alone if
    you configure UCX right, per above.
    
    Don't use the '.enet.dec.com' or the '.mts.dec.com' if you can avoid
    it.  I know, ELF has lots of email addresses that include one or the
    other of these, but they tend to be problematic.  I've seen some
    hideous return addresses come out of the '.enet.dec.com' hack, and that
    will probably never get fixed....
    
    CCS is working to complete the deployment.  Network Engineering is
    working to make the products work together more smoothly in a technical
    environment that has been a house of cards waiting to fall since long before
    Exchange ever existed.
    
    So...keep it simple (use SMTP/MIME), make sure you're using the latest
    stuff (UCX V4.1), configure it right (SMTP headers on top, and POP3 for
    PC clients), and don't bug the implementors - scapegoats are not
    needed.
    
    tim

Tim,

What is the syntax to change the SMTP service to put mail headers at the top?

Paul

Re:      <<< Note 5138.58 by CAMPY::ADEY "Is there a 'Life for Dummies'?" >>>
    
>    > When you move, your
>    > INBOX has to be changed on all your PC's, so they like to have send
>    > somebody to do that.
    
>    Not true. There's some mechanism in Exchange Server that can
>    automagically tell the client what server to use. A few months ago,
>    CCS changed the server I was on without telling me. Everytime I would
>    change the server back to my old one in the Exchange Client,
>    reconnecting would get it set to the new server.
    
    Your reply doesn't indicate that the mechanism worked too well, or you
    wouldn't have had a reason to change it back to what you thought it
    would be. Most people never look at this. 
    
    If you change your INBOX to point to the wrong server, then use the
    Check Name button it will look up what server you are on. Of course, if
    everyone knew how to do this, it wouldn't be necessary to send someone
    to the user's desk.  
    
    Obviously, procedures vary over time and geography.  Some people may
    have SMS scripts to do this automatically for all I know.  
    
    On another point, Exchange at Digital is not entirely the brainchild of
    CCS.  MCS announced a plan over a year ago to implement Exchange
    without any help from CCS.  The SBU had its own plan.  Those two groups
    alone make up a large portion of the corporation.  CCS merely won the
    business of implementing it as I understand it.  Other businesses have
    bought into this at high levels, which is why CCS is "forcing" people
    to move to Exchange.  
    
    If people think CCS is learning about Exchange by doing, they are
    absolutely right.  But that is not to say that the people doing most of
    the work have no training or knowledge to start with.  But you don't
    learn the details until you do it.  I used to develop and teach
    ALL-IN-1 support courses, but only when I actually had to do it did I
    really learn.  I just had a better foundation than most people.  
    
    Ben

    You think Exchange is bad!
    
    Yesterday I received a hard copy mail in my pidgeon hole here @GMT. It
    was signed and dated 20-Jan-1997 by my manager who left the company on
    the 31st of January.  It only had to move a few yards.
    
    Jc
    

    
    >What is the syntax to change the SMTP service to put mail headers at the top?
    
    
    UCX>set config smtp/option=top