Conference 7.286::digital

I thought paydays were Thursday.

Paul

    And we only have 12 paydays... maybe I should relocate :-(
    
    :-)
    

But if a holiday (such as New Year's Day) falls on a Thursday, don't
we get paid on the Wednesday before?

				-Michael

    Watch out for HCRA and extra paychecks.  When I was TFSOed at the end
    of 1993, I received a 53rd paycheck under an accelerated payment
    schedule, plus two paychecks in 1994 from which HCRA contributions were
    mistakenly withheld.  John Hancock said that my account was never credited 
    with the three contributions, and the payroll department was unable to 
    tell me where the money had gone.  The Digital employee who was supposed 
    to represent me first promised to help, did nothing, and finally stopped 
    returning my calls.
    
    Fortunately, I had selected the minimum contribution, so I was out only
    $15.  I guess my "rep" figured that I would give up if she stonewalled
    long enough, and she was correct.
    
    M

I stand corrected.  Since 1 Jan is a holiday, there will, indeed, be 53
paydays this year.  The rule is even simpler then:

If January 1 is a Wednesday, there are 53 paydays, the first being on
January 2nd and the last being on December 31st.

Otherwise, there are only 52.

/john

    If there is SOME year with 53, and MOST years have 52, shouldn't SOME
    year have 51?  Or is this a SERIOUS Leap Year?

No 51.  53 only because 365 mod 7 is 1.

/john

Re: .7

No, leap years that begin on Tuesday also will have 53 paychecks.  Total
of five years out of every 28.

[Sorry, I can't help myself. :-)]

				-Michael

Argh.  Aren't calendars fun.

    See note 4921.*. This is definitely a 53-payday year.
    
    I haven't submitted an HCRA claim yet (will be doing a large one at the
    end of this month), so I hadn't yet seen if they got it right.
    Apparently they haven't.
    
    Call them up to complain. The representative you'll be talking to
    probably won't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. If so
    ask to speak to the supervisor/manager. I dealt directly with her
    during last year when my automatic payments were messed up, and I found
    her very helpful and responsive (in spite of my being, let's say,
    slightly less cordial than I should have been :-).
    
    Point out to her that we get paid a 53rd time on December 31st as
    January 1st (the Thursday) is a holiday. As I mentioned in
    4921.something, I went back to the previous years when this happened
    and there were definitely 53 paystubs.
    
    If it isn't resolved by the time I get my first reimbursement in a
    month's time, I'll join the fray then. Since I'm witholding the maximum
    $40 per week, that means that John Hancock or Digital will be trying to
    hold onto $40 of my money at the end of the year. The nice thing is
    that if it isn't resolved by then, the total deductions for the year
    for HCRA that show up on my final paystub will be $2120 not $2080. I
    think that makes it pretty clear. :-) 
    
    Good luck!
    
    - Richard.

    oops...I should have looked more closely at 4921.*. Only note there
    that refers to this is my 4921.3. The original discussion was in
    3606.*.
    
    Sorry if I confused anyone. 
    
    - Richard.

    Uh, oh.
    
    What will this do to our bottom line this year?
    
    Do our competitors pay weekly?

>    What will this do to our bottom line this year?

Our fiscal year is not the same as the calendar year.  Some fiscal quarters
have 13 weeks and some have 14.  I believe financial statements usually have
a footnote when they compare 13 week quarters to 14 week quarters.

I believe HCRA accounts will have 53 weeks of deductions this year.  If you
put in for $10 a week, there will be a total of $530.

    Er, why don't we save money and pay MONTHLY?  Seems like we could do a
    LOT less paperwork...?
    j

>    Er, why don't we save money and pay MONTHLY?  Seems like we could do a
>    LOT less paperwork...?

Against the law in Massachusetts.  (Long discussion elsewhere in this
conference when someone high up announced a biweekly pay scheme as a
method to slightly reduce everyone's pay by transferring a week's
interest from the employees to DEC.  The Corporation had to give up
the idea after the Massachusetts law was made clear.  Note: Yes, there
are other companies in Massachusetts which pay biweekly or monthly by
agreement with the union.  Here there is no union to agree to allowing
an exemption from the Massachusetts weekly payday law.)

/john

    ha!
    
    here in Oz, most of the permies get paid monthly, and it is a
    king-sized pain in the behind. Yes, I've heard all the arguements about
    budgetting your money for expenditure across the month, blah blah blah.
    But the fact is, that things get *very* tight around the week before
    payday, no matter _how_ careful you are :'\  (isn't that right Andy?
    ;')
    
    One of the reasons, now as a contractor, I prefer fortnightly payments,
    although if I could get weekly, I'd probably go for that ;')
    
    So, my advice is, compromise at being paid fortnightly, but dig your
    heels in if the management come up with the bright idea of paying you
    monthly. Remember, some months are longer than others - every third one
    is five weeks!
    
    H

    
    In the UK we get paid monthly (which is the norm across many/most UK
    industries), but we get paid 3 weeks in advance, 1 week in arrears
    (which is not the norm).
    
    This seems to be a happy compromise. If money's tight running up to
    payday then you can only blame yourself for bad budgeting.
    
    Russ.

    Practically all of Europe pays monthly, at least for white collar
    people.
    
    I might rather have a poblem saving up from weekly payments for all the
    bills at the end of the month...
    

I had always been paid monthly before I came to work for DEC (as had my
father), so I never allowed myself to get used to a weekly paycheck and
always set them aside until the end of the month.

But it is always nice to be able to "borrow" against paychecks already
received from time to time rather than from a savings account.  Having
my checkbook register appear negative drives my wife nutz, though.

/john

    When I worked at Bell Laboratories (back in the mid-70's!), they
    "paid" monthly, but employees had an options to get an advance
    (up to 50%) on the 15th of each month and the remainder on the 30th,
    or an option to get advances on the 10th & 20th (up to 30% each)
    and the remainder on the 30th ...
    
    I have no idea how this schema developed, but it is an interesting
    alternative!
    
    John

    When I worked at UCLA in the 70's, it was a CA law that employees had
    to be paid at least twice a month, except for state employees who were
    paid...
    
    Monthly!

    Here in Canada we get paid bi-weekly, on thursday, an automatic deposit
    into your bank account. My wife get's paid on the 2nd and 4th friday of
    each month.
    rtt

re: .17

As I remember it, monthly *per se* isn't illegal in Massachusetts, just 
that your pay may not be more than one week in arrears.  The proposed
scheme was two weeks in arrears.  And strangely enough, all those benefits 
of paying bi-weekly seemed to evaporate when the Mass-legal scheme of one 
week in arrears, one week in advance was considered.

So a monthly scheme of 1 week in arrears, three weeks in advance would be
legal under Mass law, but DIGITAL would perceive no benefit. 

Ray

> but DIGITAL would perceive no benefit.

... except perhaps half the cost of writing all of the checks.

    re .19
    >In the UK we get paid monthly (which is the norm across many/most UK
    >    industries), but we get paid 3 weeks in advance, 1 week in arrears
    >    (which is not the norm).
    
    The manufacturing plant in Ayr, Scotland pays weekly, but then as far
    as Digital is concerned Ayr is not in the UK.
    
    Joe
    

re .26:

The interest loss would more than offset the gain from reducing paperwork.

    
    I wonder how many field engineers in MCS/US would go for extending the
    pay period out to bi-weekly or monthly??? I for one would not
    appreciate waiting 4 weeks to receive any overtime $$ after being
    dragged out on standby calls - usually late in the evening.
    
    No whining - just fact.
    
    JP

The interest loss is a one time change.
The gain from reduced paperwork is recurring.
Question is how many years of gain to offset the loss.

1 week's interest on 1 week's pay is the cost of writing how many checks?
My guess is something like a dozen would more than cover the cost.

R.

    When I worked at AIR (American Institutes for Research) we did monthly
    pay checks with the option of 'mid-month' advance.
    
    I do bills monthly. 
    
    I never understood why Digital doesn't want to bank the payroll for a
    month, get interest on it, and reduce paperwork.
    
    But then again - our beancounters are from planet X.  THey see the
    solution of needing to get more money as CUTTING people instead of
    GETTING MORE money....
    
    I digress..
    

>    I never understood why Digital doesn't want to bank the payroll for a
>    month, get interest on it, and reduce paperwork.

Against the law in Massachusetts.

/john

    >Against the law in Massachusetts.
    
    So what?  Most of Digital's staff don't work in Massachusetts, so why
    not do what's done in other matters?  Namely, allow for local
    exceptions.

Shhh!  Please don't talk 'em into monthly paychecks.  I've been there.  I much 
prefer the weekly direct deposits.   It's easier on my finances and the check 
stubs that arrive in the mail every Thursday are great motivators.

Regarding bill-paying, I can't see doing that once a month, my creditors and 
suppliers post bills with due dates that are all over the month. I pay them as 
they come in.  -- Dennis

    When I worked at Raytheon, the pay was once a month on or about the
    25th of the month. The first month was a suprise but after the first
    month it all works out. It is a change from once a week at the last
    job. Just requires some planning. I can't see where it is against some
    law as they are a Mass. company.

>>    I can't see where it is against some
>>    law as they are a Mass. company.

It's not against the law to pay monthly.  It is against the law to wait until
the end of the month to pay for the work completed during the preceding month. 
You can pay monthly if you pay at least three weeks in advance of the work
being completed.

BTW, the bi-weekly pay scheme does not just cost one week's interest one time. 
It's one week's interest every two weeks; that is, it's recurring.

Consider a representative two week period.  Say you can receive a paycheck for
each week at any of three points: before the first week, before the second week
(that is, between the two weeks), and at the end of the two weeks.  There is a
week's worth of interest on each paycheck during each week of the period, for a
total of four paycheck-weeks worth of interest.  Either you get the interest or
the company does.  For different pay schemes, the interest (in paycheck-weeks)
over the two weeks is distributed as follows:

Pay			Company		Your
Scheme			Interest	Interest
Weekly, end of week	3		1
Weekly, start of week	1		3
Bi-Wkly, start of wk 1	0		4
Bi-Wkly, start of wk 2	2		2
Bi-Wkly, end of wk 2	4		0

Considering a 4-week month, with 16 paycheck-weeks of interest:

Pay			Company		Your
Scheme			Interest	Interest
Weekly, end of week	10		6
Weekly, start of week	6		10
Monthly, start wk 1	0		16
Monthly, start wk 2	4		12
Monthly, start wk 3	8		8
Monthly, start wk 4	12		4
Monthly, end wk 4	16		0

This is true for every single pay period, not just the first one.

						Brian

    >job. Just requires some planning. I can't see where it is against some
    >law as they are a Mass. company.
    
    Actually, I heard that they pay a monthly fine of something like $5000
    for doing this, but that the cost of the fine is much less than the
    float benefit.
    
    Deb (who hopes that doesn't give the beancounters any ideas)

re: with monthly paychecks, it gets pretty tight the week before payday

I have the same problem -- and I get paid weekly!  :-)

-Mark

When I was in graduate school, I was on a fellowship that paid
my stipend *three times a year*.  Ouch.  I much prefer weekly.

				-Michael