Conference 7.286::digital

    
    you may want to check with someone from the LEARNING UTILITY page.
    There were pointers in there to all sorts of documentation.  I believe
    the one URL I HAVE IS INTRANET.. but there is a feedback button
    that you could use to ask about external reference.
    
    www-mcslu.das.dec.com/mcsl/mcslhome.htm
    
    Chet

Check VTX LOS. The first page lists the 800 number for Moore Business Forms.
They do the literature fulfillment for Digital.

Ray

    
    Check out 
    
    vtx los
    
    literature ordering system, it will cover most things you metioned.
    

    	OK, I had a few minutes so I thought I'd search the web.
    
    	1. connect to www.digtital.com
    	2. click on products
    	3. click on search (at bottom of screen)
    	4. in the advanced search (titled "Site Search and Browse"), enter 
    	   (no quotes) TruCluster and documentation
    	5. get a bunch of stuff (27 hits), select "Systems and Options Cat,
    	   part 1 in WSWord format, download and check, not there.
    	6. Try Part 2, find a part number!
    
    From the search:
    		.
    		.
    Digital UNIX TruClusters Part 2 V96-2.0 
         Systems and Options Catalog -- MS Word , Postscript , PDF 
         04 Nov 1996, 12 Pages 
    
    Digital UNIX TruClusters Part 1 V96-2.0 
         Systems and Options Catalog -- MS Word , Postscript , PDF 
         04 Nov 1996, 10 Pages 
                        .
    			.
    
    
    	From the SOC -
    
    � Software License (60 day loan): QL-3RLA9-LD
    � Software License (90 day loan): QL-3RLA9-LA
    � Software License (180 day loan): QL-3RLA9-LG
    � Software Documentation: QA-3RLAA-GZ
    �  

    	I tried VTX LOS with that part number, doesn't find it.
    
    	Leo

    VTX LOS is largely for brochures, glossies, etc. Not relevant here.
    
    Fortunately, given the part number in .4, VTX PRICE finds it and shows
    US Country List Price of $180.
    
    Order through whatever order process the customer would normally use
    for systems, software, etc.
    
    regards
    john

    The search in .4 points out a number of problems.
    
    1. It picked up the SPD and, as discussed elsewhere in this conference,
    SPDs are frequently non-existant or out of date these days.
    
    2. It did not provide the details of what manuals you get for the order
    number.  The customer had a part number and title. He had no way to
    prove that the part number in question did contain the manual.
    
    The digital.com web page should include every manual we ever shipped.
    
    It should indicate what package the manual is in (orderable part
    number).
    
    It should cross reference to versions of the manual in other languages. 
    
    It should indicate other related manuals (i.e. older or newer versions
    of the same).
    
    It should indicate the date and approriate software versions that the
    manual discusses.
    
    It should indicate "obsolete" manuals (even if there is no
    replacement).
    
    It should indicate which manuals "come with the product" so customers
    can order replacements (but manuals that come with hardware might not
    be packaged for seperate shipment so this might be difficult).
    
    A prior company had a company wide bill of materials available at
    terminals all over the plant.  You could also get a "where used"
    (inverted bill of materials).  You could do all sorts of stupid pet
    trick things (like find every product that used a 6-32 by 1/2 inch
    screw).  Granted this was for internal use and would want to be
    sanitized for external consumption, but...
    
    Steveg

The actual PostScript file for AA-QP0TB-TE is posted on
http://tpegsrvr.zk3.dec.com/usr/doc/public/non-ODE/clusters. It's 1.1 Meg in
size. 

The HTML version is at
http://www.zk3.dec.com/~buttlar/cluster/AS_ADMIN/TITLE.HTM

Don't know about rights of distribution. The document is "TruCluster
Available Server Software, Available Server Environment Administration" for
DIGITAL UNIX V4.0A.

"Digital UNIX TruCluster Product Information" is at
http://www-unix.zk3.dec.com/www/clusters.html .

Available Server - DECsafe Roy Shiderly Marketing Manager 
[email protected] 

Re: .8

>> Don't know about rights of distribution.
Well, it's a copyrighted document.  It's professionally written and maintained
intellectual property and should not be given away.

It's also part of a set QA-05SAA-GZ, which can be purchased, as you probably 
know by now, for $169.

*Sell* it to the customer.  That's how we get revenue and keep ourselves afloat.

If they've bought a lot of our hardware, they should have the documetnation to 
go with it.

Bruce Langston

Sue told me the customer is willing to buy the set.  The problem is that there
seems to be no ready way, given an individual manual order number, to determine
what set contains the manual.

				Steve

    Thanks Leo.  Someone else in our office has access and he went in also. 
    The correct part to order for the Trucluster is QA-05SAA-GZ and it came
    up.  This is very good!  I am still having trouble finding another one
    though.  It is "StorageWorks Configuration Manager for DEC OSF/1 System
    Manager's Guide for HSZterm"  Part number AA-QC39A-TE.  HSZterm enables
    you to access the HSZ40 controller from a session on a UNIX box.  I
    know the answer is order QA-3DCAA-GZ, but can't find how to arrive at
    that.
    
    This Customer is familiar with our home page and uses the internet, so
    I will point him to the keyword search.  Perhaps he knows something
    more technical about the one I can't find and will be successful.
    
    Thanks to everyone who responded with ideas.
    Sue
    

    Re: .7 Steve, I agree with everything you've said.  We really need to
    be more Customer friendly.  Ease of doing business etc...  It really is
    too bad when a Customer wants to order something from us and we make it
    so difficult for them.
    
    Re: .9 Bruce, this Customer does not want us to give the manuals to
    him.  He wants to buy them, but can't find an orderable part number. 
    Since he can't order the AA- part and can't get info that tells him it
    belongs to the QA- part, he can't order anything.  That's the source of
    his frustration.  Steve is correct.  I did tell him this Customer wants
    to purchase.  Sorry if I didn't make that clear in my original note.
    
    Again, thanks to all for the tips.
    
    Is there someone I can talk to to get our home page or E-Store modified
    to acknowledge the lower level part numbers and point Customers to the
    orderable part?
    
    I appreciate all the knowledge in this notes file.  It really is
    helpful.
    Sue
    

    	I almost think that HSZTERM is provided with your StorageWORKS
    purchase (do I have caps in the right places :*))  If they need to
    speak to the HSZ than that's another matter and they need that manual.
    (things like SHOW RAIDSETS, SHOW STORAGE, ADD UNIT Dmumble 	X Y X)
    
    	Leo

    	And, not to criticize or to leave opening for any ratholes, ideally
    a phone call to 1-800-DIGITAL should have resolved this.  This is
    probably a good example of what can go on, I'll try to find someone up
    in TAY2 who can address this issue, as well as others of this type.
    
    

    I know its a crazy idea, but why couldnt the manuals just have a part
    number printed on them that a customer could order?
    
    Of course, that would be much to simple, wouldnt fit in the years of
    tradition we have of doing things in strange ways, to fit systems
    (2-5-2 part numbers for one) that were established more than 30 years
    ago, and never changed.
    
    As a customer you really have to have a STRONG desire to do business
    with Digital to get anything ordered.

    Most of our manuals DO have an orderable part number on them.  Even
    "third party" books get a Digital part number assigned to them as part
    of the BOM.
    
    I think the question is:  If you don't have the manual, but know or
    suspect it exists, how do find the part number?
    
    We USED to publish a Documentation catalog, with part numbers for each
    doc set AND the part numbers foreach orderable subset AND the part
    numbers for each individual component.
    
    Seems like this would be a great thing to publish on www.digital.com
    
    FJP

No - the question is - if you DO have the part number, and that part number
isn't orderable by itself, how do you figure out what you CAN order to get
the manual?  That's the problem Sue's customer is facing.

					Steve

It seems so simple. A user should be able to go to www.digital.com, click
on Products, and over in the left-hand side, where it now says:

        Products and Services
                Hardware
                Software
                Services
                
..."Documentation" should be a member of that list, with access to a
documentation catalog. 

I'm in a software doc group, and I haven't been able to find a listing that
shows a customer how to order the manuals for our products.

Art

Also pick a random manual from the CONOLD, open it in Bookreader and try to 
find the part number for a hardcopy version.

Jilly

    re: .17
    
    If manuals are not orderable separately but only as part of a kit,
    ordering any of the individual manuals by their part number should
    automatically result in an order for the kit.  ...at least, it should
    if it was set up that way when the kit was submitted to SDC.  I
    know it's possible to set things up that way, as I've done it.
    
    (Well, I *asked* that it be done that way, and I was assured that
    it *would* be done that way, but I never tried to order anything 
    to see if it actually *worked* that way....)

    Re: .20  I agree Steve, but that's not the way it is.  I think .7 Steve
    is on target and I would like to do whatever I can to get his ideas
    implemented.  The problem is who can I contact about this?
    Sue
    

re Note 5112.15 by LEXSS1::GINGER:

>     I know its a crazy idea, but why couldnt the manuals just have a part
>     number printed on them that a customer could order?n

        Hey, we could take that a step further -- we could make it
        possible to order *anything* simply by using the number
        that's on it!  (Assuming availability, of course.)

        Bob

        (Who still needs a $3 cable, 17-03960-01, to configure a $20K
        server.)

    Yes, I get this call about once a month, ie how can I buy a particular
    manual without buying the whole set. It is not always the case that the
    customers knows exactly which manual he wants, or if the one he want
    exists. He usually does know that he doesn't want to spend big money on
    a full docu set. Finding the answer is a tedious, time consuming,
    expensive hassle for Digital, and the result is that we are again
    telling our customers that Digital is hard to do business with. The
    solution is about as complex as running a small bookshop, and if the
    mangement was any good, it would take 6 weeks to fix.
    
    For openers we need something simple like a text file with all
    available docu compising of:
    
    Title, Part number, full desription, pointer to electronic summary
    copy.
    
    Our Telesellers should have a local copy of this they can search and
    e-mail segments of to customers all in a 3 minute phone call.
    
    What we have is the usual cocktail of anarchistic chaos, with a dask of
    arrogant telling the customer what they want, plus the Sorry, you are
    doing business with Digital excuse. It is why our revenues are falling.
    
    ..Kevin.. 

This problem will grow worse as we move more toward distributors.

The Configure To Order program (if it's launched) will also make
it more difficult (along with many other things).

I work in the Americas Software Distribution group and have
(hopefully) helped out with this problem (Friday). I haven't
checked in yet to see where the status is on it, however.

If folks ever need help with acquiring something like this please
do not hesitate to call me (264-2444 - NQO). The larger problem
is something better left to the owners of the products. This is
the first problem of this kind that I've run into.

Chip Girouard
SSB-A Quality Manager

   Look in the "Overview to OpenVMS Documentation", in hardcopy AA-PV6YB-TK
   (that's from the V6.1 edition), or on the CD-ROM.  It's *full* of OpenVMS
   docunmentation part numbers for kits, subkits, and individual books.