Conference 7.286::digital

    Ever work at a bank?  The title "VP" is meaningless at most of them,
    because almost anyone over a certain salary is a VP.  So they start
    inventing other VP titles Exectutive VP, Senior VP, Corporate VP, ...
    
    Digital is title happy.  Anyone walking in from the outside would
    think that we're nuts - I've never seen so many Consulting Engineers,
    Principal Engineers, and Senior Engineers.  You literally have to
    fall off a turnip truck to be a plain Engineer.
    
    Fortunately (or NOT), while well over 50% of them don't have the
    skills for their titles - at least they are not being asked to do
    the job that goes with their title.
    
    As for VP, when you have a 8-9 level deep management structure, you
    run out of management titles pretty soon, so you can start on the VP
    titles.
    
    

    I agree with Fred's assessment in .1 in the general sense.  We all know
    that many of the individuals with VP titles are not doing VP-level
    work, or VP-level work as most companies would traditionally define it.
    
    The problems come in when these VPs feel the need to actually do
    something, or when their management decides they really should be doing
    something meaningful.  Then you have the 8-9 layers of management
    working together like a Chinese fire drill.  It's not a pretty site.
    Individuals still scramble to do these VPs bidding, either because they
    work for them on the org chart, or out of some historical perspective
    around what a VP title should mean.  Others also are brought in by
    these individuals, and work that should be getting accomplished to
    further the aims of Digital and its customers, is oftentimes
    subordinated to the wishes of these VPs.
    
    So that while it may seem benign to have this many VPs, they can still
    do a lot of damage to the organization.  Not to mention that some
    inferences to our excessive #s of VPs in various publications make us
    look like laughingstocks.
    
    Chuck

    Talking about titles in banks and the damage titled people can do
    reminds me of a big Swiss bank who is promoting their 'Fond� de Pouvoir',
    a mid-management title, in attaching 'principal' to the title meaning
    this guy is out and will never go higher. Since every signature must have
    name and title when one signs:

	Jean-Pierre Untel - Fond� de pouvoir PRINCIPAL

    it means for everybody do not take this too seriously this guy will never
    become sous-directeur (VP?) anyway.

    Could be a solution to satisfy the taste for bauble without damage.

	Jo�l

    Is there a VP of VP's???????
    

The vast majority of VPs report to a VP.

At least some of the phalanx of VP's Digital has are VP for the sales
organization for their particular country.  The title seems to be a
requisite in a lot of sales situations.  And then there need to be
enough VP's to approve paperclip purchases during the inevitable Q4
spending freezes.  What the job descriptions are for the remainder,
I'd rather not know.

    Why so many levels?
    
    
    Jeff

    Re .6 - Do you mean you can buy paperclips in Q's 1,2 and 3?   If I
    weren't getting laid off today, I'd ask to work in your organization!
    
    Joan Kastendick
    

    re .7
    
    They must think there is safety in numbers? However, it may be other
    numbers that make the difference, as in the method of bean counting.
    I'm working on something that may be considered quite radical, but
    the timing isn't quite right yet to reveal this. Stay tuned...
    
    Bob "Hardly" Shallow 

RE: .4

>>>    Is there a VP of VP's???????

Shuddup, you'll give them ideas.

    I just looked a presentation passing it self off as the "Alpha Story".
    
    This is supposed to be a customer presentation, yet it actually has a
    slide that graphs "VP's vs. Time"
    
    FJP

    >    slide that graphs "VP's vs. Time"
    
    I sure hope that VP stands for VAX Processors, but I have a sinking
    feeling that it doesn't
    
    Deb

    Sorry, no.  VAX processors were on a seperate slide :-(
    
    FJP

    Then the graph must be logarithmic in order to fit on one slide.
    
    
    Jerry

    No, its been normalized to 100%.
    
    It shows the change in digital's direction by showing "old" VP's vs time
    and "new" VP's vs time.
    
    FJP

    I am afraid I am getting a bit tired of the VP humor, or lack thereof.
    I believe anyone wanting to take a shot at the number of VP's, or in
    general at Digital management, should remember that Digital wouldn't be
    where it is today without the leadership provided by these same people!

>   I believe anyone wanting to take a shot at the number of VP's, or in
>   general at Digital management, should remember that Digital wouldn't be
>   where it is today without the leadership provided by these same people!
    
    Dear me.  I thought that was the point?  Or did I miss the smiley face?
    
    Roy

    Methinks that's exactly the point! So tell us, just where *is* Digital
    today?
    
    Laurie.

RE: .16

	Excuse me?? Would "Where we are today" be:

	o 60k people and shrinking
	o no marketing to speak of
	o shattered loyalty and morale of the workforce

	or 

	o still around in spite of ourselves

	??????


							mike

    Mike,
    
    Smileys :-) are like TV laugh tracks. Some folks just don't think
    something is funny unless they are told it's supposed to be funny.
    You can get unconsciously conditioned to it.

    Satire (.16) does not lend itself to smileys. You just gotta know.

      John

    
    	And there's a very good chance we wouldn't be where we are
    	without a bunch of the 120K people that we used to have.
    	But now 1/2 of them are gone.
    
    	[I didn't perceive .16 to be sarcasm, but maybe it was.]
    

    Yes, it was sarcasm. Anyone not detecting this;..please turn it down a
    notch or two, your sensitivity is too high.
    Why the sore spot? Where and why this attitude? Just put the title
    "V.P." on a note and the torches are lit. (I add here that I am not one
    of them, but I know some of them and would not hesitate to invite one
    of them to my home or introduce them to my children.)  The reasoning I
    find most appropriate is the "punish the guilty" response. Something
    bad has happened and the responsible must pay. As G. Bush senior would
    say "ain't gonna happen, not gonna do it".
    At the end of a losing battle, with the fallen piled high when one
    officer turns to another it isn't to ask what was wrong with the plan
    of attack. The officer is most likely to say "we have to get smarter
    soldiers, these fools kept running right into the bullets". It happens
    to be just the way it is. There will be no justice, it's only bizness!

    I DON'T GET TO DRIVE THE TRAIN
    I DO NOT RING THE BELL
    BUT WHEN IT RUNS OFF THE TRACK...
    
    GUESS WHO CATCHES HELL...
    
    Just got a note that our New Business development VP in the central 
    region just joined Oracle as a senior VP.
    
    ... Another one Down.. Another one Gone... Another one rides the 
    Bus...              
    		"Another One rides the bus" Weird Al Yankoviak
    
    JMHO,
    
    John W.

    re: .23
    
    Could this be the start of a trend?
    
    Another one rides the bus....ROTFL ;-}
    
    Bob

    re .24
    Ok I'll bite...    ROTFL?    8-)

RE: .-1

>    re .24
>    Ok I'll bite...    ROTFL?    8-)

Rolling On The Floor Laughing...

-- Ken Moreau
   who still has no clue about OFWAMI :-)

    
    	RE: OFWAMI
    
    	If we knew what it meant, I guess we'd know whether or not to
    	use it, now wouldn't we?
    

    That's right - it is not appropriate to electronically propagate 
    the O****I cult in this company conference.  Even AltaVista doesn't 
    display it.
    
    /Chris.
    
    

    
    	Well, WTF does it mean??
    

       >>> <<< Note 4777.30 by BUSY::SLAB "Erin go braghless" >>>
       >>>
       >>>Well, WTF does it mean??
    
    They'd tell you, but then they would have to kill you.

    I don't think it means anything. I've asked pointed questions to people
    that use it in thier notes and they still say "I don't know". ;^)
    
    On the VP note. A while back, most customers used to raise living hell
    until they spoke to a VP.  Our solution was to brand a bunch so the
    few we had didn't have to travel so much. That explains a few, not
    most. (And I'm not one).    
    
    	It personally think it's a virus and if someone would run f-prot
    against the database, about 150 or so would just disappear. ;^)
    
    
    jimbo

    I'm so stupid sometimes I forget how I even got on the turnip
    truck.

    
    Having heard from more than 1 source that they have heard 3 more VP's
    have recently been hired, I am troubled deeply by this. So much in fact
    I think it may be the reason I slept uneasily last night, waking up at
    4:00 a.m.
    
    If the information I have heard is true, will someone please confirm
    this by posting the e-mail (or e-mails) to show in this string, that
    upper mgt. has indeed hired on 3 new VP's? Doing such will prove to me,
    and perhaps others, that the employees are not being heard, and
    also mgt.  must not understand the old saying, "too many cooks spoil
    the broth". (cooks here in reference to VP's, and NOT employees)
    
    Thanks you,
    
    Bob

Judging from the absolute absence of confirming replies, it must not
be true.

Besides, is there something magic about '3 more VP's'? It would seem
that a bit more analysis would be in order before concluding that the
employees are not being heard, there are 'too many cooks', and the
broth is spoiled, IMO.

Respectfully,
Pete

    I don't really care if somebody is called a V.P. or a Tech I; a
    title is just words. The question ought to be, is that person 
    doing something useful?  

    
    	Q:  What's the difference between a VP and a Tech I?
    
    	A:  $35K
    

    RE: .37
    
    I wish that were true, I'd bet you'll have to at least double that 
    figure if not more...
    
    				-John

    
     Re .37
    
     Q What's the difference between a VP and Tech I?
    
     A you missed the first number, its not 35K but 135K
    
     M

Wow - I didn't realise Tech I's earned so much :-)))))

    
    
    	re -1
    
    	so true! :)
    
    
    jim (tech III and hanging on for dear life)
    
    

         Re .37
    
         Q What's the difference between a VP and Tech I?
    
         A you missed the first number, its not 35K but 135K
    
    	 Q What's the time? a week, a month? 

    
    	Geez, I was guessing ... I have no idea what a VP makes.