Conference 7.286::digital

    We had a mail this afternoon telling us Theo had resigned to return to
    a company he set up before joining DEC. His replacement was named but I
    can't remember it right now.
    
    Dave

    nows there's only 6,998 to go, right?!??!!

    Well to the troops at the sharp end (e.g. me) he was just another
    faceless name at HQ. European law doesn't require the same kind of
    financial disclosure as the US does, so I don't know if he was also
    fortunate enough to benefit from a 2-year rolling contract like Enrico
    had.

    re .0:
    
    �Apparently Theo isn't well known to the troops outside Europe,
    
    Never heard of him so he must have been important (I only get to deal
    with unimportant people ;-)
    

Theo had a very sweet deal.  He told me so.  The deal was good enough, he
said, that he didn't feel it necessary to have Digital pay for his living
quarters in Geneva, where he worked.  He actually lives in southern France,
close to the Valbonne (Sophia Antipolis) site, where he also maintained an
office.

The deal also permitted him to keep his interest in his value-added network
business, where Harry Copperman's memo says Theo is returning.  Apparently
it wasn't considered competitive to Digital.

___Pete

    Peter Zotto, SBU-Europe Country Group Vice President, to assume active
    leadership of the SBU in Europe as acting SBU European Manager...

    Despite the fact that I know of this person and a small amount of his
    background, with respect to him resigning from the SBU, I am
    sorely tempted to ask ;
    
    		SO WHAT?
    
    Hiring in "stars" to run our business units whilst they maintain
    "other" business interests is totally unacceptable.  What an utter
    mess.  Good riddance!
    
    
    /Chris.

    This is just the type of management/vps that we need.  We'll hire them
    as VPs at Digital, pay them a good salary, perks, and benefits, and
    whatever else so they can manage their outside activities.  When these
    outside activities mature we'll pay them a severence to leave and go
    manage that activity full-time.  And by the way, we'll congradulate them 
    as they leave.
    I remember signing some paper when I started to work for Digital
    indicating that I'd work 8-5.  And if I did outside activities it
    better be something the Company could benefit from.  Re .-1 I agree.    

    On the otherhand, if I and my wife owned a sucessfull computer
    business, would I be required to sell all my interest in MY business
    to come here and hopefully have some of that knowlege digital is
    looking for rub off on them?
    
    Probably not, and it'd be written into my contract.  After trying for
    a time or two to fix things around here I'd probably get fed up and 
    quit and go back to my wifes still sucessful  computer company.
    
    I have no idea if this is what happened or not, but you get the
    idea.
    
    MadMike

    
    	Does anyone find it curious that Harry's memo explained in
    (relative) great detail the circumstances surrounding Theo's departure,
    in comparison to other recent "departures"??  You only know what they
    want you to know!!
    
    rick

    
    Small rathole but......
    
    RE .7
    
      Following on from one of my notes being blasted in this forum did 
    the author 0f .7 request and obtain the permission from Harry Copperman 
    to post his mail in this conference ?
    
    Just curious,
    
     Mark.

I found it interesting that Theo made a number of attempts, some successful,
to move people in his organization to Valbonne.  I'm sure this had nothing to
do with the fact that he lived nearby and had his own company in the area.

- S.

I have removed .7 as it was a mail message posted in a notesfile without
the author's permission (the author's office called me to say so.)  
Corporate policy requires that you obtain the permission of a mail or memo
author before posting in a notesfile and that all headers be included.

					Steve

    Steve,
    
    the mail seemed to be cascaded to everyone, certainly this side of the
    pond. corporate policy states... yeah, yeah. So the Author's Office
    called eh ? As Dogbert would say, Big Furry Deal.
    
    There is more, much more, of way more importance going down right now.
    I have just *lost* several million$$ potential sale, due to the
    uncertainty of what is going down in Europe right now. Maybe the
    Authors Office would come and help me explain to the CUSTOMER (who
    they?) what is going on ? Or Maybe help me sell ?. 
    
    Moderate away, and delete this note if Corporate Policy mandates.
    
    
    

I am told that there will be a formal announcement from Copperman's office
on this subject.  The mail message I removed was not it.

It does not matter if it was "cascaded to everyone" - the corporate policy
(HR006-54) is clear and unambiguous:

 RESPONSIBILITY FOR CONTENT OF MESSAGES SENT OR POSTED ON NETWORK

 Messages mailed or posted over the Digital network are the
 responsibility of the original author.  Posting these materials in a
 notesfile/conference without the explicit permission of the author is
 prohibited and is a violation of this policy.

 When forwarding messages or posting them to conferences, removal or
 falsification of the original message header (which indicates the
 author) is prohibited.

 | This policy covers all messages addressed to individuals and
 | organizations.  It is not intended to restrict the distribution of
 | general announcements, course listings, etc., or messages originally
 | posted on external bulletin boards such as Usenet news groups.


					Steve

    
    	Sorry, I posted the memo because it had been sent out to a
    	very extensive distribution list and I didn't think it was
    	a big deal and CERTAINLY not a "confidential" issue.
    
    	No headers included?  It was sent from something that res-
    	embled [and very probably was] ALL-IN-1 and there looked to
    	be about 7 levels of headers in there [or it could have been
    	just 1 ... ALL-IN-1 is funny like that] that were completely
    	useless.  So I included the part that said where the memo
    	came from.
    
    	Do we need permission from ::CORADMIN before posting notices
    	of upcoming training sessions?
    

    
    	OK, forget the "training session" question, since it appears
    	that you covered that.
    

    
    re .5
    
    'he didn't feel it necessary to have Digital pay for his living
    quarters in Geneva, where he worked.'
    
    Wow! Now's *that's* sacrifice and dedication! I mean, doesn't 
    EVERYBODY get free living quarters from Digital? ;)
    

Re .-1: fair question, and I wasn't clear about it.

Digital had a choice with Theo: relocate him (at company expense) with his
family to live in Geneva, or have him continue to live in southern France
and pay his commuting costs.

Check out Pesatori's employment agreement: he got a bundle of "help" (= $)
to relocate from Chicago and buy a new house.  Relocating is expensive.
Geneva is particularly expensive.

My current manager, Martin Malina, is on the other arrangement, which might
be called "expenses-paid long-distance commuting".  His family lives in the
home he maintains in Belgium, but he works during the week in southern
France; and Digital pays his travel expenses plus a car, meals, and the
apartment he maintains here.  He flies in from Belgium on Monday morning
and returns there on Friday afternoon.  That was the other possibility for
Theo.  But he didn't bother to have Digital pay for his Geneva living
quarters.

___Pete

    
    .20
    
    Why in tarnation should Digital pay for his relocation period? Grunts
    here in the US pay their own relocation expenses. Why should this VP
    be any different? My god, these VP's are just a bunch of overpaid,
    overhead. They don't produce any revenue, have no clue on how to
    forcast revenue, etc.... We need to layoff at least 100 of them.
    Think of the savings to Digital.

    There are jobs in Digital that sometimes offers relocation benefits. 
    When Digital was promoting COD (Career Opportunity Days) a few years
    back relocation was part of the program.  COD also was happening when
    the Real Estate market was at its worst and Digital was stuck with all
    these unsold home.  If you're not aware, COD was getting individuals in
    New England to relocate to the field.  From there the Corporation could
    lay your off.

    re: .-1
    
    And when was that? 1988?
    
    After 3 group moves in the last 4 years ($1,000,000? more?) I now
    commute 70 miles each way and I'm not eligible for a penny of relo,
    compensation or anything else. And each move now seems carefully
    engineered to fall _just_ under the relocation eligibility criteria.
    Or maybe I've just grown cynical in my old age.
    
    So. What made this guy so special? What was his long distance commute?
    
    -Tom

When I was hired in 1984, I lived more than 35 miles from the office into
which I was hired, and at the time, Digital policy was to offer me the
chance to move my household closer to the office, with Digital's support,
because over 35 miles was considered "long distance".  (I declined -- we
had just bought a house and didn't want to move.)

It's standard practice, for international hires, to relocate them at
company expense.  In the USA people aren't aware of "standard international
practice", but believe me, in Europe you can't escape it.

Theo was a high vice president.  He lives in southern France.  He was hired
to work at a job in Switzerland.  He was offered relocation conditions and
turned down some of them.  Not difficult to understand.

___Pete

    Re .24
    
    OK it's his perogative to turn down the relocation conditions offered.  I
    don't think that should then mean Digital should be picking up his
    'commuting' expenses as a result.
    
    (I should have turned down my relocation in 1986 and then I
    could have 'commuted' to and from New Zealand :-) :-) :-) )
    
    	Owen.

     re .22 ---
    
     your comment brought back memories....
      
     I was in the field when Digital relo'd this lady from NH with all
     the works: sold her house in NH, helped her buy one in OH, promoted
     her to Consultant 1 and she became a pre-sales technie when she
     had NEVER been exposed to customers in all her NH DEC days!!! Was
     that incredible or what?  but wait, there's more...
    
     maybe a year after that she also got the VERY first, ultra-loaded
     TFSO #1!!!! Talk about striking the lottery TWICE!
    
     then there was this guy also from the NE someplace, under similar
     circumstances, was brought out to the field to be a SALES REP!!
     Go figure! This guy had NEVER sold before, he was an admin sort.
    
     then another guy who boasted to all to hear that KO "bought" him
     his Infinity Q45 CASH. Let's see, that might have been TFSO #2.
    
     So here we are.... with the current TFSO thinner than any skim milk
     you could find. What did Simms (remember him) used to say? Oh yeah,
     this package is "less rich"....
    
     

    re .-1 what do not realize is that was the play.  Corporate can't or
    won't layoff because it's too hard, back then anyways.  Therefore, they
    relocate you to the field, promise to pay your salary for 18 months,
    then after that you're on your own.  Now the field has the opportunity
    to pay your salary or lay you off.  Like you said, since you do not
    possess the credentials to perform in the current job function it's
    much easier for the Corporation to now terminate you without a lot of
    hassels.
    I did my Master's studies at Lesley College and wrote a thesis on
    Relocation in the High Tech Industry.  From my readings this is very
    common practice.  If I remember correctly, IBM wanted to downsize an
    organization in either NY or Connecticut so they relocated everyone to
    Kansas or somewhere equivalent.  Then they closed that facility and
    offered everyone the chance to relocate back.  However, no one could
    afford to purchase the house they sold and was stuck in Kansas or
    where ever it was.  A lot of pissed of employees.  Most were
    manufacturing or non-management.
    The best part of my Master's was reading these stories.  IBM was one of
    the worst but all the Major Corporations used to be relo happy.
    I admit Digital relocated me from California to Maynard to work in
    Workstation Base Product Marketing.  I sold my own house but was moved
    at Digital's expenses.  I was single at the time and didn't have much
    possessions except for some tennis rackets and surfboards.  I got COD'ed
    back to California and Digital purchased my house in Maynard because it
    was the time when real estate dropped.  I hope I can say that I pay my
    salary and then some by the activities I perform for the Company.  I do
    my best.
    
    	Regards,
  

    RE: .27
    >>>IBM was one of the worst...

    Which is why IBM is known as:
    	I've
	Been
	Moved

    
    re -1 kam...
          oh, i understand the game and how it was played, but that
          did not mean that the game made any sense (in any context) or
    	  was right.
          
    	  On the contrary, more damage was propagated because these
          relo'd individuals were supposed to perform a function,
          however brief the tenure was, which not surprisingly they
    	  could not. The end result being more PO'd customers, disrupted 
    	  work processes, and not to be forgotten, negative impact on 
          morale. How much did these early luxurious packages cost
          Digital? What's the end game today? If you serve 20 years,
          you get (4+8) 12 weeks' pay and benefits.
    
          It's really funny in a way, that nowadays, it is not kosher 
          to say or admit what's wrong is wrong. 
                                          

    
    Don't lump all folks who were part of the COD program in one bucket.
    I moved from Maynard to Denver 6 1/2 years ago to become a sales
    support person.  My specialty was Unix, a very sparce commodity in the
    field at that time, and Digital paid for my move.  I jumped in with both 
    feet and gained "Circle of Excellence" by the next year.  And I'm 
    obviously still here, still doing Sales Support (such as it is these
    days), still bringing in business for Digital.
    
    So, not all people who were part of the COD move were "takers" who were
    laid off in the first wave!
    
    Sharon

> I moved from Maynard to Denver 6 1/2 years ago to become a sales
> support person.  My specialty was Unix, a very sparce commodity in the
> field at that time ....

But Denver must have a lot of business, because you joined some pretty
competent guys, Karl Burmeister and Mills Ripley (one of the original UNIX
partners).  Mills went to EDS to join the early wave of object-oriented
programming; wonder where he and Karl are now.

Come to think of it, I was the one who relocated Mills to Denver, from
Albuquerque -- and he was worth every penny.  Talk about a full circle for
a Notes discussion!

___Pete

    
    nope, wasn't my intention to paint all CODs with the same brush.
    just based on my up close and personal encounters with the THREE
    examples I cited.
    
    

     re .26 ---
    
     I was in the field when Digital relo'd this lady from NH with all
     the works: sold her house in NH, helped her buy one in OH, promoted
     her to Consultant 1 and she became a pre-sales technie when she
     had NEVER been exposed to customers in all her NH DEC days!!! Was
     that incredible or what?  but wait, there's more...
    
So what's unusual.  I chose to relocate with Digital from NH to
Indiana as part of COD in 1990, Digital bought my house and all.  And
I became a "pre-sales technie" who had NEVER been exposed to customers
in all my NH DEC days, and had NEVER sold a thing before.

I am extremely grateful to Digital for the relocation and the continued-
salary-plan I have enjoyed to date, as a UNIX partner in Indianapolis.

Ram

RE: .33

Did you do COD I or COD II?  I thought I was the only surviving COD II still
left in the field!

But the same thing happened to me: a happy tech-dweeb engineer who had 
literally never met a customer was suddenly a Consultant I who was expected
to keep very demanding customers happy every day.  It was an interesting
learning experience for both me and my customers.

Interesting as in the Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times." :^)
Learning as in "Oh, no, not another learning experience". :^)

-- Ken Moreau
   OpenVMS Partner, who does presentations a *WHOLE* lot better now than then

     Ah, the good old days of people getting around the "raise" system.  I
    know a few people that were working here in Co. springs making only so
    much money and of course weren't getting very good raises, so they
    found a relo job in mass making alot more money doing the equivelant
    job, then moving back here 1-2 years later and were able to buy a
    bigger/better house and still pocket dec's $$, especially after dec
    bought their house in mass.
    
      Some made many thousands for, what they thought, were giving up 2 years
    of their life living in a place they didn't like, but knowing they
    would move back in alot better shape than when they were here before.
    
      That was good for them, bad for the corp, imo.
    
      Tim

I had no idea that Theo Wegbrans was responsible for COD!

Dave.

Re my 4704.20, in which I mentioned my manager's arrangement, department of
full disclosure: I certainly do not know any great details of his contract
with Digital.

But since a colleague here in Valbonne suggested I was being a faux naif in
saying something about it, let me make clear that I'm glad Digital is
flexible enough to make arrangements of all sorts to relocate valuable
personnel.  There is absolutely nothing shameful about such arrangements,
and I imagine this one has been hard on Martin (assuming I have the facts
roughly correct).  Travel like that is never easy.

If I thought there were something wrong with it, I would never have
mentioned his name, and probably wouldn't have said anything at all.

Perhaps this is a very "European" viewpoint.  The kind of travel we have to
do here, and the relocation issues, are rather different from domestic
travel and relocation within the USA.

___Pete

    ___Pete,
    
    C'est un faux naif. Je suggest vous not provide gratuitous information
    on votre colleagues without their sanction/permiss-i-on. Je still await
    votre description of le package vous avez received. My own experience
    is that Digital is rather flexible, and somewhat prone to
    "exploitation," by those who are verbally facile and/or "politically
    connected."
    
    IMHO BAM,
    Bill