Conference 7.286::digital

It's not "about to deploy" - this TMS has been used in various organizations
for a while.  What's new is that it's being spread to more business units.

In addition to the 1980-style of computing it requires, there are some
additional serious problems.  First of all, the UI is unlike that of any other
character-cell UI we've seen so far.  Second, it doesn't eliminate paperwork -
you still have to mail in receipts.  Third, the automatic exception
recognition process bypasses the cost-center manager and allows a 
higher-up to approve expenses without the knowledge of the CC manager, but
against the CC manager's budget!  I find these problems more troublesome
than those of the retro UI.

				Steve

    The good news about a character cell UI is that I can use it from just
    about anywhere, on just about anything.
    
    maybe, someday when I'm not doing three people's work, I'll do the
    legwork to get better connectivity than WATN; until then, I'll inhabit
    the lowest common denominator..
    
    (yeah, yeah, I know about dialing in to site modem pools and running IP
    of a flavor etc etc.. but the nearest modem pool is 60 miles away.. and
    ETunnel access violates on my machine.. it's not like I haven't tried,
    to the extent I've had time..)
    
    ...tom

I discovered a couple of interesting things, not mentioned in the instructions.

1.  The system requires that you be able to print out a form it creates. 
    There is a place in the profile to indicate the name of the printer
    queue to use - this is on the system running TMS, which is likely NOT to
    be accessible to you.  The other documented choice is LOCAL which, if
    I understand it correctly, assumes that you have a printer attached to
    your terminal.  If you are using a DECterm window, it does support
    the printer control sequences, but you have to enable this under
    "Options" in the DECterm window.  The CBT reveals a third choice, FILE,
    but I think this too goes on the system running TMS (not sure if you
    can redirect it elsewhere.)

2.  TMS lets you look up the badge number of any employee - just go to the
    Profile section, tab to the "Secretary" entry, press F13 then FIND.
    I consider this a security risk (though a rather minor one nowadays.)

Also, proper use of the system requires you to have the printed documentation
handy for the long list of expense-type codes you'll need.  The documentation
implies, though doesn't state clearly, that you are required to write an
identification number on each receipt.

					Steve

    � ETunnel access violates on my machine.. it's not like I haven't tried,
    � to the extent I've had time..)
    
Try a little harder, Tom.  Give me a call and we'll get you working within
15 minutes.  But first, download the EFT3 stuff.

j.

I've been using TMS for a few months now and after overcoming some initial
quirks, I find it much simpler than handwriting hardcopy forms.  I think it is
a big step forward.  I'm certain that room for improvement will always exist.

I have not seen TMS, so maybe I am not qualified to comment, but hey, that
never stopped anyone in this (or any other) notesfile before... :-)

But the comments about the retro UI are generic enough that I can comment.
I am with .2 on this one: a properly designed VT100 interface is extremely
user friendly and easy to learn and use.  I would put up a properly designed
character cell terminal interface against a poorly designed {Windows|
Macintosh|Motif|Win95) interface, with its arcane indecipherable blobs 
(aka, icons), and its context sensitive help that always leads to the same
single generic help text which is no help at all, and its menus which are
5+ levels deep before you can actually do something (and which disappear
if you happen to move the mouse the slightest little bit off target, which
is my biggest complaint about Win95), and with its graphics that take
slightly longer than forever to paint, and oh by the way, *how* much disk
space did you say it took for that application?

Now, the converse is also true.  A properly designed {Windows|etc} interface
is a joy to use, and blows the socks off a poorly designed character cell
interface, with its keypad sequences that you have to memorize, the key
combinations (lets see, was that <PF1>-<PF3> to go back, or was it 
<Shift>-<LEFT>, or was it <CTRL>-B) which are byzantine to say the least,
and moving from one menu bar location to another is painful on a slow system.

But VT100 style interfaces have one advantage over any of the GUIs mentioned
above: almost every person in this company, whether they are working on a
cast-off VT100 or the latest greatest AlphaStation or the latest notebook
HiNote Ultra running Win95, can access it quickly and easily.  An interface
that works on the equipment you have is infinitely move valuable than a
phenomenally fancy GUI for which you don't have the fast fancy hardware.

So I see nothing wrong with properly analyzing the intended market for this
applications (ie, the actual people in this company who will use this new
application), seeing that equipment they *actually* have rather than hoping
that someday they will all be issued $3K+ pieces of gear, and then picking
an interface that will actually let these people **USE** the new application,
rather than just putting the app out there and wondering why it is being
ignored...  So kudos to the people who did some actual marketing of their
product, and didn't just assume things and blindly implement in the dark...

And as far as having to actually mail in receipts, my understanding is that
this is a requirement from the IRS, and Digital has literally no choice but
to insist we send in vast quantities of paper.  Get the IRS to accept expenses
with no receipts and I am positive Digital will be happy to not require it
(but think of the abuses possible when you can say "Yes, lunch for that
customer cost $75 and I never asked for a receipt because they are no longer
required").  The day that happens the temperature of Hades is below 0c.

The other objections that Steve Lionel mentioned in .3 seem more substantive,
such as the difficulty in actually printing the silly forms.  But have you
tried putting in a full-blown DECnet or IP address there?  I found out it
works quite well in AQS, ie, where it asks for the filename I put in

	ODIXIE"MOREAU password"::QUOTE.PS

Try it.  If this works (and I bet the application is simply passing the 
filespec to the proper SYS$OPEN/fopen system call without any interpretation
whatsoever by the application, in which case this will work), then there is
no problem at all...

-- Ken Moreau

    .0 - but does it do the job?
    
    I could give you several examples of corporate wide implementations
    of Pee Cees that don't even promote file sharing.  I don't measure
    an application on how GUI it is or how wiz bang it is but rather 
    if it meets the requirements.
    
    Gosh several thousand banks still use (god forbid) character cell
    interfaces and IBMs CICS for example which has been around for
    25 years.    IT GETS THE JOB DONE - who needs a Pee Cee or a 
    workstation for text data input / output.     Now if you are
    a profesional game player on Pee Cees or a scientist who
    dabbles with fractals great - maybe you need a bit mapped
    device.    
    
    By the way I am typing this on a VT525 - and I can even write
    1 application which uses Vt100 - VT500, Xterminals and postscript
    printing all in one form using multiple languages.  Sure the world 
    is caught up in Pee Cees - the majority of the people I see 
    PLAY GAMES with them.   
    
    Text is text...   do you require some sort of a picture on your Pee
    Cee for a simple thing like text lookup?       The old saying 
    KISS may apply.
    
    By the way - is there a Excel spread sheet that runs on VT500s?   

>works quite well in AQS, ie, where it asks for the filename I put in
>
>	ODIXIE"MOREAU password"::QUOTE.PS

It doesn't ask for a file name.  If you enter "FILE" it creates a text file
in the SYS$LOGIN of the TMS_USER account, and I haven't figured out how to
get to that yet.  (LINKEXIT if I try DIR node"TMS_USER"::)

/john

In Valbonne we've been using TMS for a long time, and it's possibly the
best terminal-oriented administrative application I've used inside Digital.
Yes, I'd prefer if it would work on UNIX; yes, I'd like to be able to feed
it batch entry; etc.  But it has drastically reduced the amount of work I
have to do to submit travel expenses.

And unlike TRS, for instance, it doesn't require me to log into a dedicated
A1 account and go through the mysteries of hell to enter data.

But the crucial point is that it has provided me with tangible benefits.

___Pete

We've just been given the mandate here in the Digital UNIX group to start
using TMS as well. Putting the character cell interface issues aside
I've already come across the following:

	1) The keys that you are supposed to use <select>, <find>, etc.
		do not even exist on the PC-style UNIX keyboards.
		After poking around in the  document
		repository I found a keymap file which shows the
		corresponding keys to use on a PC keyboard. However
		they don't work when using that keyboard on a Digital
		UNIX system, they only work when using it from a PC.
		To this point, I have not found ANY keys which generate
		the proper key code for the application. In short, no one
		here can even use this if they wanted to. Obviously
		none of the developers have a clue about UNIX, nor do
		the help desk personnel. I'm sure I could generate
		the appropriate keymaps if my life depended on it,
		but I shouldn't have to do that for a "standard"
		corporate tool.

	2) Which brings me to the "documentation". Totally, 100%
		VMS oriented. I was real tempted to call the help
		desk and tell them I get an error when typing
		"set host" (as described in the documentation) to
		get to the TMS system but I decided the fun would
		be lost when the person on the other end had no clue.
		Everything else is VMS oriented as well (if I try
		to get the documentation using "copy devmko::..."
		it doesn't work too well!). 
		Given that close to 50% of our sales are UNIX these
		days you would hope that something that is going to
		get such widespread usage would have been at least
		TESTED with UNIX. Yeah, I know that a majority of
		our inhouse systems are VMS or PC's but a growing
		number are Digital UNIX. In any case we have a group of 
		400 people who cannot use the official system even if we
		wanted to.

	3) The system is totally DECnet based. I suppose this can
		be remedied at the individual TMS host node by having
		it run UCX or something. Here in Digital UNIX land
		very few people run DECnet on their workstations. So to
		access TMS I have to rlogin to one of our production
		machines and the dlogin (not SET HOST :-) to the TMS
		system.


Regarding the FILE option for print, the documentation claims that it saves
the file on the node you came from so it should work ok as is. Not to beat
the dead horse here (but I can't resist) what it actually says is that it
will save the file in your "VAXmail account as TMS_EXPENSE_XXXX.TMP where
XXXX is your badge number".



Tilting at windmills,



Mark Parenti
Digital UNIX

>And as far as having to actually mail in receipts, my understanding is that
>this is a requirement from the IRS, and Digital has literally no choice but
>to insist we send in vast quantities of paper.  Get the IRS to accept expenses
>with no receipts and I am positive Digital will be happy to not require it

The IRS only requires receipts for meals over $25; this was always the
DEC policy until recently; TMS requires receipts for meals over $0.01.

/john

>Regarding the FILE option for print, the documentation claims that it saves
>the file on the node you came from so it should work ok as is.

IMPOSSIBLE!  There is no way for the TMS_USER account on some random node
on a facility VAX to store a file on "the node I came from" if the "the node
I came from" follows security guidelines audited by the corporation.

As for the keys, isn't there a VT320 emulator on Digital Unix (a DECterm)?
That would have the keys in the normal places in the 6-key editing pad.

>The system is Totally DECnet based

Not at all.  Not in the least.

The node at ZKO which supports this runs TCP/IP, so you don't have
to dlogin, you can telnet right in to it.  (I just did, no problem.)

/john

	So when are they going to do a web version? 

	Our group is using QuickXpense to do our vouchers. We email them
	(via Exchange) to our secretary. The interface works well and it
	allows the secretary to track expenses.

	If it wasn't for character cell Notes, I wouldn't have a VMS
	system. I'm 99% Windows NT. And I'm not installing DECnet.

	TMS sounds like a solution for 1988, not 1996.

							mike

>>Regarding the FILE option for print, the documentation claims that it saves
>>the file on the node you came from so it should work ok as is.

>IMPOSSIBLE!  There is no way for the TMS_USER account on some random node
>on a facility VAX to store a file on "the node I came from" the "the node
>I came from" follows security guidelines audited by the corporation.

>As for the keys, isn't there a VT320 emulator on Digital Unix (a DECterm)?
>That would have the keys in the normal places in the 6-key editing pad.

>/john

Well, I looked a the documentation again (tms_printing.ps) and it says FILE
works if you access TMS from your "VMS account". On first read I took that
to mean via SET HOST, but I agree it's not likely. Which makes the whole
printing issue even more interesting. I suppose I'll need to find where
node ZEKE is, get my keycard approved for that lab and then tromp over there
to get my printouts. Even if the remote printing mentioned in an earlier note
works I suspect it won't work when dlogin'd from a UNIX system.

Regarding keymaps, I'm using standard out of the box V3.2C with the standard
dxterm terminal emulator. According to the docs I should use the HOME key
instead of find, but TMS didn't react to that key. I'll have to look at
my keymaps I guess. My point was, this should just work....


Mark

>>The system is Totally DECnet based

>Not at all.  Not in the least.

>The node at ZKO which supports this runs TCP/IP, so you don't have
>to dlogin, you can telnet right in to it.  (I just did, no problem.)

>/john


Great. I was actually surprised that it wasn't running TCP/IP. I must have
used the wrong address. One less thing to gripe about.

Mark

>	If it wasn't for character cell Notes, I wouldn't have a VMS
>	system. I'm 99% Windows NT. And I'm not installing DECnet.

You don't need to.

From a Windows NT system, use VTSTAR and TCP/IP.

/john

>Even if the remote printing mentioned in an earlier note works I suspect
>it won't work when dlogin'd from a UNIX system.

Hmm.  Works just fine when TELNET'd in from a Macintosh.

What the system _does_ assume is proper full VT320 support.

/john

.13>           <<< Note 4595.13 by AXEL::FOLEY "Rebel without a Clue" >>>
.13>
.13>
.13>    5	TMS sounds like a solution for 1988, not 1996.

    Correct. And it was exactly that year.
    
    I helped with the ACMS and DECforms design and implementation back then.
    Believe it or not, it _was_ state of the art when first made available.
    
.0> ... Either a client-server implementation ...
    
    It was client/server (ACMS) with a potential for a portable client 
    (DECforms). Is had a (centralized) relational database for storages, 
    true electronic signature, understood an authorization hierarchy. 
    
    In Valbonne (first implementation), the client was installed on
    all main 'production' cluster were 90% or more of the folks had
    an account. We used the client from our own account and saving
    to local files, printing on local queues, was trivial. ACMS provided
    the security. The generic 'TMS_USER' option was a exception, but
    it appears to be the implementation rule now. too bad.
    
    It fully integrated travel requests (message to Amex), Reservation 
    confirmations, Exchange rates, Expenses, feeder generation for 
    the final payment system and it knew business rules (limits, excepstions). 
    
    It was ofcourse offered to the US back then, but they figured they 
    could do better job themselves back then. So now here we are, many 
    years later, and it finally caught up with me :-). 
    
    Ofcourse it will look antique by now. But I reckon it will get the 
    job done and personnaly I am looking forward to be able to enter 
    my expenses from my trusty old VT tube at home. It will allow for
    great promptness in processing and it is believed to significantly
    reduce overhead (fewer folks in Finance and Administration departments).
    
    
.5> We've just been given the mandate here in the Digital UNIX group to start
.5>  .... Totally, 100% VMS oriented. 
    
    Correct. And so was the company in 1988 it seemed. 
    There were NO 'production' machines (under 'IS' control) running 
    anything but VMS on VAX. PC's on the desk were the exception internally.
   
.3> 2.  TMS lets you look up the badge number of any employee - just go to the
.3>       Profile section, tab to the "Secretary" entry, press F13 then FIND.
.3>       I consider this a security risk (though a rather minor one nowadays.)
    
    Correct. It's a cultural thing. In europe, at least in the days TMS was 
    developped, badge number access was omnious and easy. ELF displayed badge
    numbers all the time. Didn't seem a big deal. Doesn't seem a big deal.
    
.13> Our group is using QuickXpense to do our vouchers. We email the
.13>     (via Exchange) to our secretary. The interface works well and it
.13>            allows the secretary to track expenses.
    
    What is the goodness in that paper trail? Why involve a third person
    if the data you entered can be going to the main database directly 
    and remains there available as needed? What if the secretary is gone 
    for a while and replacement was poorly done? instead of figuring out 
    where the piece of paper should go next by human action, why not have
    the data be at the righ place for starters? No extra step, just the 
    authorization which can be done by your manager (from home!)
    
    Regards,
    		Hein.

Congratulations on a step backward.   TMS must have been 
designed by the originator of that user-hostile system, AQS.
Same response time, same hard-to-live-with keystrokes, 
same logic.  A solution in search of a problem.

We have been using a Vax - based program called Expense
here for a few years.  It was written by a local consultant, 
and produced the paper we could then send in as though
it were a hand-written expense form.   Marvellously easy
to use, clear and helpful, it had none of the "now press F10
(so I pull down the PF key tab on my emulator, search for 
the F10 keystroke simulator and hope it works)" nonsense.

Why we couldn't have hooked Expense to the back end systems, 
I don't know.   Why we can't continue to send in our paper, 
I don't know.  Why we couldn't have adopted a modern system, 
"   "        ".....

Don Randall 
Seattle

I second .19's motion.  EXPENSE is a very nice CC application.  I am now using 
the PC version so that I no longer have to log into a server for anything.  No 
sooner do I get everything onto my laptop, BANG!  Here's an announcement that I 
have to log into a remote system to do work.

It's so nice to know that I work for a leader in the client/server industry.

I third .19's and .20's motion. I too used the pc based Expense form and it is 
(was) great. Not that Expense should mandated either, but what are we really 
gaining from trashing everything else and mandating TMS? I don't see it. 

Oh well, so much for doing my expenses on the plane!

Hide your calculator...abacuses are back!

Dave B.

Well, I used VOUCHER for years and although it was more convenient than filling
out paper forms, I find TMS more convenient and its interface more complete.  I
can run it at the office on my OpenVMS workstation, at home on my Macintosh or
on the road from my Windows laptop.

If TMS was a PC-based application, I would be very limited as to where I could
run it.  If TMS was a Web-based application, I'd have more choice but still need
a connection to a server somewhere, no?

I get my expense reiumbursement quicker, too.  The only problem I have with TMS
is the limited choice of printers.

I work at a real Digital office, though (MRO) so I may not have the same
problems as those in the Home Alone program.

Paul

    And I third .19s sentiment.  It is just incomprehensible that such
    an elegant application as EXPENSE was not endorsed.  Being forced to
    revert from EXPENSE to TMS is like going from French cuisine to
    McDonalds -- they both fill you up, but one is garbage!

    As a Telecommuter using a dial-in PC, having to use an emulator and
    login to a TMS system, and having no straight-forward way to print the
    mandated forms locally all just shout that there was no analysis of the
    whole user community.  I won't go into the keyboard-mapping issues
    again but needless to say, having to setup specific mapping to run TMS
    this way is not exactly user friendly (to be kind). I won't elaborate
    on the arcane user-interface either (just sad -- did anyone ever read a
    modern book on MMI's?).

    What kills me is we (Digital) wasted so much staff-time, money, effort,
    to build something that one of our own employees had done already for
    nothing and that many-many people had been using for years.  EXPENSE is
    an exemplary program by any standards.  It runs on two of the three of
    our mainstay products (VMS *and* PCs -- Win95, NT, and just WIN). Its
    interface is so intuitive coming from the old paper forms that anyone
    could immediately pick it up (you can not say that in any way about
    TMS).  And finally, EXPENSE's design, already having an independent
    data file, had the beginnings in place for the same kind of distributed
    routing for expense approvals.   Only the automated parsing and "feeds"
    of the data needed to be added, along with perhaps a native UNIX
    version.

    What a waste of money to our corporation!  EXPENSE was there, and FREE,
    and EASY to use, and easy to migrate to, and the bases for a modern
    distributed system.  NIH *again*!

    I too am compelled to use TMS.  Admittedly it works.   But coming from
    EXPENSE, it's such a sad setback!

    --Steve

    As a 'home alone' guy, sitting in a customer site all day with just a
    modem line into DEC, from the standard Unix keymaps, Ive grown used to
    not having access to anyting but simple tty like output. No <PF>, so most
    of the VTX stuff is inaccessible, no edit keys in All In One, so all I
    can do is <rubout> one character at a time. No way to print any thing.
    
    Im almost fully cut off from the company I work for and supposedly
    support. Looks like now I may not even be able to turn in my expenses.
    
    Or maybe, someone in Unix will finally get mad enough to fix our
    terminal emulators so they actually emulate VT's later than VT100.
    
    And another note wonders if there is a trend as bright people leave
    DEC? 

    We (our whole engineering group) just got envelopes with the "TMS"
    goodies in them.
    
    Don't they have anything better to do than to send EVERY FREEKING
    employee an envelope with 4 envelopes in it.  Like we travel weekly,
    and our admin couldn't be a source (with one envelope mailed) of say 10
    or 20 of these "special" 'lopes.
    
    Sigh,
    	Bill
    
    Ps:  I wondet how much 60,000 of these things cost to print and move
    through the system.
    

    
    Reading this note prompted me to try TMS to submit my milage
    voucher.  I got in, typed in my info (Had to use VTX MILEAGE to
    get the miles, minor weakness)..  It got submitted at 6PM last night,
    this morning I was notified it got approved.... 
    
    Much faster than the old paper system.  Let's see how fast the money
    gets in my account.
    
    Jon
    

I use TMS every week.  Worst interface I've ever seen, however, 

last week I submitted my expenses on Monday at 7:50 a.m..  They were approved
at 8:05 a.m..  The money was in my account at 4:00 P.m. on Tuesday.  That's 
not bad.

ac


    

        SOooo. It sound like the processing end of TMS does the job very 
well and what is needed, for some, is a suitable client interface. Does 
anyone know if there are plans to make additional client interfaces into 
TMS? If not, there should be.

        FWIW, I currently use the PC version of Expense and, although it 
doesn't have the greatest GUI, the ability to do my Expenses offline and 
semi-paperlessly (I have a personal paper management problem #;-)) 
outweighs this and other negatives of the program. The mandate hasn't hit 
us yet but I'm not looking forward to it....

        Wayne

>>last week I submitted my expenses on Monday at 7:50 a.m..  They were approved
>>at 8:05 a.m..  The money was in my account at 4:00 P.m. on Tuesday.  That's 
>>not bad.

So what are those envelopes for ?  

re: every employee 4

I second that motion - I will be needing some - but.

Oh ya, yet another password to write down somewhere - only this one expires
every 90 days - wonderful.  Lets see there is ELF, ELF V3 and now TMS - not to
mention all the PINs for other things.  Why don't they just ask the 'stupid two
or three questions' like VTX PAK or the dial-in password distribution system
does...

bjm - who has yet to use it (I'm using VOUCHER for the trip I just got back 
      from - 30 day grace period you know !) but I did 'register'

      <<< Note 4595.29 by HNDYMN::MCCARTHY "A Quinn Martin Production" >>>

>So what are those envelopes for ?  

	Audits. If your receipts and your form don't match they'll 
	take the money back.

	One weakness in TMS. There is no "tickler" to the approver, make
	sure that you tell your manager that you've sent a voucher for
	approval. Otherwise is will languish in their account.

Jim

re: "voucher" and "expense". I use voucher and am pleased with it, but
        it did take some getting used to, as will TMS. Haven't used expense,
	but I'm sure it does a fine job too. Still, I doubt that either
	have the business rules build in which allow TMS to validate 99% 
	of the request automatically drastically reducing your managers
	and admin persons time verifying those items.

.24>   As a 'home alone' guy, sitting in a customer site all day with just a
.24>   modem line into DEC, from the standard Unix keymaps, Ive grown used to
.24>   not having access to anyting but simple tty like output. No <PF>, so most

	And here I thought Unix had the goodies (keycap ?) to redefine keys?
	Perhaps your terminal has down loadable (shifted) function keys?

.25>    Don't they have anything better to do than to send EVERY FREEKING
.25>    employee an envelope with 4 envelopes in it.  Like we travel weekly,

	Imagine the uproar if those envelopes had _not_ been there.
	Something along the lines of "They make me use this *&^@ TMS 
	and don't provide a decend way...". Can't please both camps.

.25>    and our admin couldn't be a source (with one envelope mailed) of say 10
.25>    or 20 of these "special" 'lopes.

	Local admin is entirely out of the loop with TMS, unless you can 
	convince (chocolates?) your friendly administrator to do your 
	expenses on your behalve using your badge/tms_password

	To figure out who has easy access to a central supply and who
	doesn't could easily be more expensive then just shipping to all
	when mailing an intro package anyway. 
	Analogy: My credit card (DCU), Electric (PSNH) and Gas (Energy 
	North) companies keep sending me envelopes every month even though 
	I have automatic transfers (and yes that does irritate me slighty).

.28>        SOooo. It sound like the processing end of TMS does the job very 
.28>well and what is needed, for some, is a suitable client interface. Does 
.28>anyone know if there are plans to make additional client interfaces into 
.28>TMS? If not, there should be.
	
	Had TMS been implemented in GMA in say '92 after a relativly
	successful first year in Valbonne, then possibly by now that 
	power that be had recognized a need for alternative (GUI) clients.
	Still, it's just tool and it get's the job done. It's not clears
	to me that investing in alternative UIs helps the company as a whole.

.29> >>last week I submitted my expenses on Monday at 7:50 a.m..  They were approved
.29> >>at 8:05 a.m..  The money was in my account at 4:00 P.m. on Tuesday.  That's 
.29> >>not bad.
.29> 
.29> So what are those envelopes for ?  

	To send the receipts to a safe place for storage, in case they
	need to be checked some day? It wouldn't surprise me if the 
	most of those envelopes	are _not_ going to be opened ever, as
	the key identifying information is supposed to be visible.

.29> Oh ya, yet another password to write down somewhere - only this one expires
.29> every 90 days - wonderful.  Lets see there is ELF, ELF V3 and now TMS - not to

	The good news is... it's not generated :-), so you can set it to
	an other (not-so-critital!) password that also changes (eg, voicemail).

.29> Why don't they just ask the 'stupid two or three questions' like VTX PAK 

	Because those are indeed stupid? or imply because noone thought of it?

.30>	One weakness in TMS. There is no "tickler" to the approver, make
.30>	sure that you tell your manager that you've sent a voucher for
.30>	approval. Otherwise is will languish in their account.

	Not sure about the current implementation, but best I know each
	approval to be made generates a mailed reminder and approvers
	have a handy todo list (within TMS).

.2> you still have to mail in receipts.  Third, the automatic exception
.2> recognition process bypasses the cost-center manager and allows a 
.2> higher-up to approve expenses without the knowledge of the CC manager, but
.2> against the CC manager's budget!  

	That would surprise me. It is a chain of approvals not a choice no?
	Aprovers will not have to hunt for exceptions, they'll stand out.

.3> ...The documentation
.3> implies, though doesn't state clearly, that you are required to write an
.3> identification number on each receipt.

	I always thought that was an effective way to work anyway
	and used it on my paper forms also. It ensured me that I
        processed all of them, and I thought it was a common 
	courtesy to the admin person whoe would verify them.
	It never seemed fair to me to have an admin person solve
	the puzzle of 'which receipts goes where' when I had already
	solved that puzzle in the process of filling in the beast.

hth,
	Hein. (no I do not actually like using TMS, bien au contraire!)

Re 4595.27 by RLTIME::COOK:

> I use TMS every week.  Worst interface I've ever seen, however,

Someone who obviously has never seen TRS.  TRS *really* gets my dander up.

Like many others, I'm disappointed by these VMS-only, VT-terminal-only,
centralized applications, but I have to admit TMS's usefulness.  It does
several things for me: I can make my travel arrangements, keep a travel
profile ("fly non-smoking"), then calculate and file expenses (including
the many currency conversions we have to deal with in Europe) on line based
on travel arrangements already on line.  Very good concept.  How about
using it as the subject for a screen-scraping project?

Naturally it'd be better if it were already client-server with the clients
I want (Digital UNIX and Windows 3.1), plus off-line preparation.  In the
meantime it sure beats the old combination of

	travel arrangements by phone (when they answer!)
	+ working out expenses by hand in multiple currencies
	+ submitting only on paper

But I'd guess that the USA has it simpler, so those aren't such great
advantages -- you could already handle your travel on line? no problems
with currency conversions? integration of travel arrangements with expense
procedures? etc.

___Pete

    I've used TMS for years and have become used to its "special" use of
    the keyboard - admittedly quirky in today's 101/102-key world but hey - the
    development team has faithfully implemented the relevant IM&T standards 
    at the time.    Have you seen any new (DEC) GUI standards published 
    since then??
    
    Now that I am fully converted to PC/NT culture and a Web proponent, I 
    very much miss GUI features and more than anything would like an 
    "offline" mode for expense entry when on the road.
    
    However, TMS gets the job done.  The back-end stuff is really quite
    remarkable when you understand the verification being performed
    (required by our auditors).  The way that it is implemented at my 
    site is a very good model of signatory delegation without loss of 
    control.  The system has even come back to tell me that I've forgotten 
    to claim an item that was on multi-line receipt.  
    
    My expenses are always signed off fast whether or not my manager is 
    in the office that week.
    
    You can knock TMS's UI for all you like - it is from another era but
    you will be hard pushed to find anything else with better built-in 
    business controls.
    
    /Chris.

An update to my earlier note:

Regarding printing: After spending a substantial amount of time with the
help desk we worked out a way to do printing on Digital UNIX. Using
dxterm, under the Options pulldown select Printers and set the printer
to Queued Printer and select a handy printer. In TMS set your profile to
LOCAL. This will allow printing on any printer you can get to from
your workstation. Note that in V4.0 dxterm is replaced with dtterm (the
CDE replacement) which doesn't seem to have a printer option! Not sure what
the solution is there.

No progress on the keypad issue after many tries. There does not appear to
be an out of the box solution for people with the PCXAL keyboard attached
to a Digital UNIX system. You simply can't do any action that requires the
select or find key.

Working with the Help desk has been interesting. They are very forthcoming
about their near total lack of knowledge regarding Digital UNIX. We only
stumbled on the printing solution above because the Help Desk person
could tell me that TMS was printing SOMEWHERE based on its behavior when
I printed. I had to track down and find the rest.

As for actual usage, it looks like it will do the job and, based on other
comments here, seems to be fairly quick. If I can ever get the thing to
work in my environment I'll be glad to use it. It simply shouldn't be
so difficult in this day and age to have it work with Digital UNIX. The
Help Desk confirmed that there was NO testing done with access from a 
Digital UNIX system. Pretty poor for a company-wide required process. The
talk around here is that maybe we'll get everybody laptops so they can use
them to file their expenses :-) 


Mark

re: non-DECnet access

As John pointed out, it is possible to access the node(s) in ZKO via
TCP/IP. However, the "node" ZEKE (which is a cluster alias) is not
accessible. You must access one of the member nodes as listed in the
documentation appendix. 

So now I have a solution for the DECnet access and the printing problem.
It would have been nice for the documentation to reflect these methods,
but seeing as they never tested on Digital UNIX, I'm not surprised they
don't. And yes, I'll be feeding this information back to the TMS team with
the hope that it will be included in the future.


Mark

Has anyone figured out the printing issue yet? I still can't get a print-out
since I don't have an attached printer and am nowhere near the host node.

Gerry

Read the past few replies...

		Steve

    re: .-2 (?)
    
    Since you mentioned dxterm, I assume this isn't simply 'Digital Unix'
    but a workstation running Digital Unix + Motif.
    
    I can't comment on Motif setup under Digital Unix, but on VMS there 
    is a file called SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE that
    you can edit (and turn into a .com file) to tell the X server what
    kind of keyboard you are using. I would assume that Motif under 
    Digital Unix is likely to supply an equivalent capability. As I
    recall the default is an LK201 (LK401?) keyboard.
    
    Dave

re.37 I see nothing that helps me print from my PC to the printers on
my OpenVMS Alpha server.  What am I missing?

Gerry

How are you connecting from your PC to the VMS system?  If you're using a
terminal emulator, check its support for a "local printer".  If it has
none, you're up a creek, as are those who are using "dumb terminals" attached
to a host system.

				Steve

Fwiw,

I am in the same position of being home alone without a printer.  According to
the TMS person I just talked to at the helpdesk, they are trying to work out a
procedure for people that don't have a printer to submit receipts.

Here's hoping.
--Scott

	I've been using TMS for several years and I'm very happy with the functionality.

	However the technical implementation can be improved: TMS uses ACMS and we have been 
selling to our customer our fantastic client-server solutions with ACMS dekstop . Why don't we 
create an ACMS Desktop client for Windows,Windows-NT and Macintosh?

	Why don't we use INTERNALLY what we sell ?

	Today I'd rather say:

		NEVER, NEVER sell what we use!!!! 
		---------------------------------

My preferred one is SAMS for Time reporting (uses A1, Datatrieve, ....)


	Louis

PS: a small French company sells a solution with the same functionality as TMS (including 
multi-currency support for Euro people) working from a Windows-NT or Unix (not DEC Unix!) server 
and Macintosh, Windows, Windows95, Windows-NT and X.11 client!!!!! 

    I'm in ZKO, and have to use the OVMS system ZEKE. However, there is 
    no printer close to our office area in ZKO3-2, and a request to add
    one of the local printers to the ZEKE print queue was denied.  We're
    concerned about having vouchers printed in other locations in the
    building, forgetting to pick them up, etc.   Therefore, we cannot
    get by the PRINT QUEUE area on the profile.
    
    Mark
    

re: .43

We're in the same boat as you.  We fill in the PRINT QUEUE field in our
profiles with the word "LOCAL", telling TMS to print to the "attached
printer".

Ray

If you're not using a terminal emulator (or DECterm), but a "real terminal"
that doesn't have an attached printer, you're hosed. 

					Steve

    
    	In TAY, I can't even get in to do the initial registration.  I
    logged a call on Thursday and it's not fixed yet.  How long does it
    take to disable the password?
    
    	Bill

Ok, folks / my 2 bits -

I will graduate to "ex-deccie" at the end of the month.  Of the things I have 
had the *pleasure* of experiencing at Digital of the past 4 years  (long list 
that includes the free-fall loss of 50K+ employees) the three things that have 
irritated me the most on a day-to-day basis have been (1) lack of 
infrastructure, (2) time entry, and (3) expense reporting.  I have lots of 
comments about #1, but they belong to a note by themselves (stay tuned for 
further developments); now as for 2 & 3 ...

(2) I have spent most of today waiting for STAR to come back up on the KAO 
cluster in Kanata.  I am behind, primarily because of bureaucratic goofyness - 
I rejoined SI April 1, and ALTHOUGH THIS WAS KNOW FOR 4 WEEKS BEFORE THE MOVE, 
it still took to early May to get my STAR account setup for my use.  One would 
think that a system that is used to develop the TFSO "hit list" on a weekly 
basis would be given more focus, but it isn't even on the "high-availability" 
list for support (today's a holiday in Canada, and so no after hours support 
for the time entry system).

(3) My expense situation has actually improved recently.  When I moved over 
to SI, I can now get my statements signed in the city where I am based.  This 
has cut approx 1 week off the refund process.


These issues are compounded by the inability of Digital to understand how to 
leverage the costly investment in PC equipment.  I don't know how much the 
Sales and SI Workbenches are costing Corporate, but that there was no effort 
to build in interfaces to time-entry and/or on-line expense reporting systems 
I just cannot fathom.  Somehow, it would appear that a screen-scraper 
interface to VTX was more important than to Time or Expense reporting.  As 
well, there is no ability to interconnect the applications on the PC with 
these critical functions!! 

<ahead, full SOAPBOX>  CAN SOMEONE OUT THERE IN DECspace EXPLAIN WHY THERE IS 
NO APPARENT MENTAL CONNECTION BETWEEN THE USE OF AN EXCEL-MACRO-BASED EXPENSE 
FORM JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE AND THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE THIS WORK AS A FRONT-END TO 
AN ACMS SYSTEM??  And why not have the same for time entry?

I fully recognize that of Digital's 60K employee base, most do not have PC 
access and PC-based tools.  Thus, use of VT-terminal type character-mode 
interfaces is suitable for many.  BUT THE POINT OF CLIENT/SERVER IS TO ALLOW 
FOR SEPARATION OF CLIENT(s) FROM THE SERVER!  Why not use multiple clients!! 
(wow, what a concept ;^] )

Given my history with PC's and large companies - dating from 1982 - I can tell 
you that the cost of the PC as infrastructure will never be supported by 
tangible benefits if it is only used  to do what a much lower-cost device can 
do; only when the value to the **USER** outweighs the cost of the device does 
the process make sense.  WHAT I WOULDN'T GIVE FOR AN INTEGRATED TIME REPORTING 
SYSTEM THAT WOULD LET ME KEEP TIME REPORTING INFORMATION IN 
ACT/EXCEL/SCHEDULE+ (pick one), WHILE ALLOWING ME TO BUILD A SUMMARY REPORT 
FOR UPLOADING TO STAR!!  WHAT I WOULDN'T GIVE FOR AN EXPENSE DATABASE THAT I 
COULD USE ON MY LAPTOP THAT WOULD ALLOW ME TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL THE TRIPS AND 
EXPENSES BY CATEGORY / JOB / Etc., WHILE STILL ENABLING ME TO PUT IN VOUCHERS 
ELECTRONICALLY, AND TRACK THEM AS WELL.

Why highlight USER in the previous paragraph?  I believe the biggest problem 
with all of this is the systems owners at Digital see these systems primarily 
as for their benefit (i.e., bean-counters want the spotlight on themselves).  
When Digital realizes that building systems for the users that help them do 
their job better while also capturing the information needed to run the 
company, maybe then some progress will occur.

Charles 

<taking SOAPbox off line>

	Last I heard, STAR is a cluster in the VMS group upstairs. There's
	one in Kanata also?

						mike
					former STAR system manager 
					in a previous VMSlife

For those of you without printers, here is what I was just told to do.

Take a piece of paper, on it, write your badge, expense claim # and name.
Fold the paper so that this information appears in the window of the envelope.

--Scott

    
    Scott:
    
    NNEFMC Employee Disbursements
    Digital Drive
    P.O. Box 9501
    Merrimack, NH   03054
    Mailstop:  MKO1-1/L29
    
    EMAIL Address:  GEMINI::EXPENSE
    
    Hotline:  DTN 264-1970  Outside:  603-884-1970

    mail to:
    
    	Digital Equipment Corporation
    	Employee disbursments
    	Mailstop: MK01-1/D24
    	P.O.Box 9501
    	Merrimack, NH., 03054-9501
    
    

Shucks.  You beat me to it (I just re-wrote my note).  I just looked at my
training guide and found the address (what??  read the documentation?  unheard
of).

Thanks for the info.

    The TMS application will be a time saver, and a huge productivity
    boost, no one has to check expenses for exceptions, no one needs
    to file (all on line)or make copys. I like it!

    We just had a seminar in Seattle, Santa Clara, and Irvine.  I had to
    provide the continental breakfasts.  Therefore, when filling out my
    expenses I choose BM - Business Meeting Customer.  I enter the number
    of attendees for Seattle.g., 50.  First, it won't take a number over 
    30 and second it wanted me to enter ALL 50 names.  Therefore, I exited 
    and chose NZ - Meal Other and let the exception process handle it.

    Another tip about printing (or lack of):
    
    My TMS server is in SHR while I work out of Calif. So before I SIGN
    off a claim (for approval to start), I go to the PRINT menu, hit HOME 
    (this gives default queue, local printing and file printing), hit FILE,
    hit ENTER a couple times and then VAxmail that file (do a $dir tms*.*;*) 
    to my Calif e-mail node.
    
    Even thought this is not straightforward, for me this way I can check 
    for mistakes and then print it on my local server in calif.
    
    Another tip: Use the COMMENT field liberally to explain whatever.
    
    Couple peeves w/TMS: 
    a) It no longer recog "AL" for alternate lodging which is still valid
       in the orange book.
    b) Over here it is VERY common to have self-parking, no-attendant
       parking lots, ie no receipts to be had. Makes it tough to 
       explain EVERY time.
                                                                     

FYI - Memo we received from the TMS folks.

===============================================================================
	Another option for printing from TMS!

If you use a Terminal Emulator such as KEAterm or Pathworks VT320 on 
your PC, you can access TMS on any system and print to the default 
printer set up on your PC.

To print directly to your default printer:
	1.  Select the Control Panel group from the main screen in your
	    Program Manager.
	2.  Select printers to confirm or setup your default printer.
	3.  Log into TMS.
	4.  Select the Employee Profile and type LOCAL in the printer 
	    queue field and <F10> to save.
	5.  Select and Print a TMS Transaction.  The transaction should 
	    be printed to the printer you selected in the control panel 
	    as your default printer.

Regards,

TMS Implementation Team

>>For those of you without printers, here is what I was just told to do.

>>Take a piece of paper, on it, write your badge, expense claim # and name.
>>Fold the paper so that this information appears in the window of the 
>>envelope.


Is this the extent of the information on the form?  What do we need a printer 
for?

Re .57

There is more information on the form; However, this is the critical information
that TMS needs to match your receipts up with the electronically submitted
expenses.

    I use VTSTAR as my emulator and it 'prints' to a file.  That file can
    then be printed to your PC's attached printer.  I use Wordpad, but I'm
    sure other ways are available.

    Just tried 3 systems and I keep getting the following error after
    entering the password.  The solution from the hotline, when I called
    awhile ago, was to keep trying system until you successfully get into
    one.  Therefore, don't throw away the literature sent to you because it
    list all the system available and you'll need it.
    
    %TMS-F-DESKERRN, Desktop Error : NOSUCH_APPL (-3013)   Call TMS Hotline.
    
    

    I tried the system yesterday and I got a core dump with all kinds of
    errors. I tried it again and it worked. STRANGE!!!. 
    
    After reading some of the previous notes, I believe this system has
    been under development for how many YEARS?? And it still causes
    crashes?? I've been using it for about 4 weeks now and I can still do
    my expenses faster manually. Another waste of time and resources.
    
    I was using VMS EXPENSE since it came out. A much better system. I
    can't believe that this program doesn't do simple things like remember
    the last odometer reading. I have to go back and look up what I put
    down as my last ending mileage. Unbelievable!! How much did we pay
    these people to write this thing?
    
    The biggest problem that I'm having is the printing function. I'm on
    the HOME ALONE program. I print to my 'local' printer, but it doesn't
    remember the last top of form. I have to print out 4-5 copies before I
    can get a copy that folds cleanly so I don't break the info that's
    supposed to show in the window of the envelope. Oh well, it's Digital's
    paper and printer cartridges.
    
    Tom
    

Re: 4595.61, "this system has been under development for how many YEARS?"

If memory serves, TMS was developed in Europe.  When it was brought over to
the US, it was reworked to "improve" it, and we all know what that means.

___Pete

More steps backwards.

The local CCS "upgraded" our site server one weekend
and forgot to make DecForms work.   Two weeks later 
and two calls logged, they figured it out.

Meanwhile, I'm the first one in our office to try to use 
TMS.   I've had the pleasure of watching others squirm
trying to just access the system, much less use it.

Complaints.   No history is kept.  Expense tracks previous
trips, so if I type source, hit find, it lists possible destinations,
and fills in the miles.   Expense also keeps my previous
ending mileage for my deccar.  TMS forgets.

Comments.  If "the whole company is going to Exchange" for
email, which means the whole company will be using a PC, 
then the TMS user interface is utterly stupid and non-
strategic.  

Come to think of it, the whole TMS system is utterly stupid.

    Just learned my lesson.  I just allowed the Company to use my money to
    fund the Continental Breakfast's for the seminars.  My expenses were
    refused for three cities.  I can't correct them because there is NO
    reason, see end of email - UGH!  That won't happen again.
    
    	Regards,
    
    
From:	ONOFRE::TMS_SERVER   "EXPENSE CLAIM 97622 REFUSED"  4-JUN-1996 13:34:28.89
To:	TENNIS::KAM
CC:
Subj:	EXP 97622 REFUSED 26-MAY-1996 San Diego M. O LEARY

 EXPENSE CLAIM Nr 97622      (Refused)         From date : 26-MAY-1996
 
 WILLIAM  KAM
                         Badge : 123470    Ext. :  0005354133     CC :  1E2
 
 From 26-MAY-1996 To  1-JUN-1996
 Bus Act :    Segment :     Project :            Chrg CC :  1E2
 Purpose/Reason : Business Partner Training (DUPS)        
 Location       : San Diego                 Type : EC EXPENSE DOMESTIC TRAVEL 
 
 Cost      :        96.80
 
------- Refuse Comments --------------------------------------------------------
NOT approved.                                                   
Marian O'Leary                                                  
 
Refused by M. O LEARY          

    That's cool.  We get to adapt to a new (really a throwback-of-a) tool
    for the convenience of Management, but Management still gets to use the
    tool as unhelpfully as they like.
    
    I've heard that TMS allows us to reap economies of scale, a good thing
    'tis true.  However, if it's used as a blunt instrument, to in effect
    make grunts absorb more expenses than they should because it allows TMS
    management to hide behind the SW in the guise of reducing interpersonal
    contact to save bux, then that's yet another reason, aside from its
    reputedly ancient UI, to scorn it.
    
    I haven't used it yet, but I'm looking forward to it less & less...
    

So far, the system has worked for me.  I had people in my group that
had mileage amounts completely processed from entering to approval to
the message about deposits in 24 hours! I just had a $1000 trip expense
processed with deposit in 2 days with an out-of-state manager.  The old
system could take weeks to send the paperwork around.  The old system also
lost a $100 expense I submitted so now I have to resubmit it.

Sure I had a few problems at first getting used to the system like having
to itemized a 1 day car rental into the rental charge and the $5 gas charge
to avoid being flagged as over the $40/day maximum but that wasn't a big
deal.  I probably should have done that with the old system but there wasn't 
anyone being that strict about the details.

I would like an NT solution though.

Garry

RE:  <<< Note 4595.64 by TENNIS::KAM "Kam WWSE 714/261.4133 DTN/53>>>
   
	No reason for the refusal but did you put any justification in
	comment in your expenses claim? As I know the system it tells you
	when something is in exception. When this happen to me either I
	reduce the amount below the ceiling or I put a comment to 
	explain why I had this particular expense, something like 
	'I had to pay more because this and that' it always did the trick.

	I used it for 3 to 4 years, I was very reluctant at the beginning 
	very quickly I became  convinced that, even if it's not high-tech
	or state of the art, it's a simple, good and intelligent tool 
	which save company money and simplify my life. Not that common nowdays!

	Joel

    I had the same problem with the Rental car, you need to specify
    how many days was the rental, the system prompts you for this.
    I think it is not needed, since TMS already knows how many
    days, by entering this data in the header, a small nit.
    
    My manager is in Marlboro, and this system is great, from input
    into TMS, to input into my checking account has been reduced
    by 75%. I LIKE IT!
    

    OK, I owe this string a followup after I finally try it (I'm
        accumulating various charges & will have to do so soon).
        

Re: Terminal emulation and PC Keyboard problems

I didn't see this mentioned elsewhere so I thought I'd pass this 
along for anyone having problems using the standard PC keyboard for 
TMS.

I use VtStar on a PC running NT. In order to have a keyboard whose 
layout I was familiar with, I replaced the standard PC KBD with an 
LK450.  When running VTstar, I specify the LK411 keyboard in the 
"User Preferences" section of setup.  That seems to give me a key 
mapping that's close enough to the VT100 to be useful for most of the 
TMS functions.

Charles

    ...or use KEA! or Reflection with their floating VT keyboard that you
    can use for keys not available on the PC keyboard.
    
    	dave
    

    >...or use KEA! or Reflection with their floating VT keyboard that you
    >    can use for keys not available on the PC keyboard.
     
    that works.....but it's a real pain!
    
    Why not a true client/server application to a PC client (running WNT,
    W95, Mac,... as it should be)!
    
    --Steve

    
.64> Just learned my lesson  ...  My expenses were refused for three cities
.64> ... I can't correct them because there is NO reason, see end of email... 
    
    Uh, isn't that called shooting the messenger?
    TMS _did_ flag the exception before you 'signed' giving you a change
    to either correct an error, for example adding the number of people
    involved in a meal, or adding at least a comment. did it not?
    If a claim got refused without it having an exception then I must 
    hope that the approving person accidently omitted a reason/comment
    probably intending to explain person to person. Communication errors
    happen (just a bit to often with some people :-(  ).
    
.72>   Why not a true client/server application to a PC client (running WNT,
.72>   W95, Mac,... as it should be)!
  
    Perhaps simply because what there is today works. It gets the job done.

    For the corporation it gives major advantages, ditto for folks coming
    from a paper only mode. Yes those previously using 'Voucher' or 'Expense'
    or some such will suffer a level (your milage may vary :^) of accomodation
    pain and perhaps even a permanent convience loss, but those solutions
    did NOT meet the current buniness goals. They only helped the end user
    and have NO provision to help the business end (validations, exceptions,
    online-access, electronic signatures, authorizations, payment feeds)

    I suspect that the 'pain' in logging into a TMS system expressed in
    minutes is somewhere in the order of 1 minute per claim. For many 
    this will be already compare favourably with the time it takes to get
    (and keep!) the right client software installed on your PC, that is
    assuming 'the system' manages to manage the security questions involved.
    Judging by the time it took to do the VT implementation, I'd guess that
    a nice windows client would take a full man year to develop/debug and get
    operational on every desktop that has a PC. I just do not think the
    company has the resources to burn to make this optional convience happen
    for what is unlikely to be a majority desktops in the near future.
    _Everyone_ can set host. Many have a PC, but not all at the right
    versions and not all with the right network connectivity to the rigth
    server box.
    
    They gave us an ugly wheel and a decend engine. It gets us there.
    Are you sure you really want the system to invent a prettier wheel? 
    Yes you may have a pretty wheel at your disposal now, but is there an
    engine behind it? Does it even have a frame(work) to stick an engine in?
    Does the company have the resources to spare to make your wheel work with 
    their framework? I doubt it.
    
    
    fwiw,
    	Hein.

    
    
    
    
    

    I won't comment again because this is religious now, but I find it hard
    to accept that we are being asked (mandated) to embrace software that
    is so utterly outdated and mediocre -- and will get more embarrassingly
    so as the years go by and the mandate to use it spreads.  We live in
    1996, not 1986.  Software has moved forward!

    We could have done better.  I'd expect that of myself.  I'd expect that
    of my peers.  I expect that of my company.  If not, we're doomed.

    My only hope is that this is an ugly aberration and not representative
    (regardless of the excuses) of the quality for which Digital has been
    known.  I'll concede to the previous reply only that TMS does work, but
    I'll not concede that because it works it's worthy of defense.

    We could *never* sell this!  We can never show it!  As a SI project for
    a customer, we would be thrown out the door.  

    I suppose I'm just embarrassed by it more than anything else!  (And
    dissappointed we have to step back so far.)

    --Steve

   Well I just signed in to TMS like a good corporate citizen, happy to
   comply with central directives and all that.

   I do notice that my cost center is not correctly listed, and while I
   have met the vice-president who is displayed as my manager, I seem to
   recall that I currently report to a different person.  My phone number
   as displayed on TMS has been obsolete for over six years.

   I wonder if I will see a prompt payment on my next voucher?

   Surely these features will be correctly ***very soon***



Re:*.73

   By the way - everybody does **not** have the capabilty to set host to
   arbitrary nodes on the EASYNET.  There are many of us working international
   and customer sites with very limited bandwith and long latency times,
   if we have access at all.

   Single-Character cell interfaces (with 30 seconds per character network
   delays) are not usable under these circumstances, even if you can set host
   to a node with TMS installed.

    So far in our story... it seems that we like the idea, but the
    execution leaves something to be desired.
    
    In my case, my manager can't seem to be added as an approver so I have
    to send things to his boss.
    
    David

    the interface is clunky........so what!
    
    printing is tiresome...........so what!
    
    I can enter prepared data in six minutes
    
    I get reimbursed in 48hours!!!! instead of 3.5 weeks
    
    this fact makes every other complaint irrelevant.

I recently saw an HP announcement that they've turned off the last of their 
internal monolithic applications and gone entirely client/server.

For a company that supposedly invented client/server, it seems we're lagging 
somewhat.

PJDM

    I believe that the application is Client/Server e.g., I logged into
    MKOTS3 and IVOSS1 simultaneously and made some changes.  The changes
    were reflected to the other system almost instantaneously.  I did this
    awhile back to see if I had to use the same system all the time.  
    
    The interface just isn't consistant what you're seeing at CompUSA, etc.
    nor what we're trying to sell our Customers.
    
    	Regards,

    I think way back in this string the developer said that he wrote it to
    be usable on multi platforms.  But, only the VMS front end had been
    completed.  If so, I suppose it should be possible to create a
    PC/WEB/whatever interface, right?

    RE: never do exceptions
    
    In our group we've taken exactly the opposite approach: make sure EVERY
    expense report has to be bumped up to the VP level for approval.
    
    Basically, TMS is f%$ked, and is wasting an incredible amount of
    everyone's time.  The only way to get this changed is to waste an
    equaly incredible amount of VPs time, until they realize how badly
    scewed up this system is and get it fixed.
    
    Steve
    

Steve:

> The only way to get this changed is to waste an equally incredible
> amount of VPs time, ...

  And while they're approving exceptions, they can't be doing
  any other harm, either!

  Shades of Gordon Bell's old "NOD" memo!

                                   Atlant

  In case anyone's forgotten, here's the memo. Some discussion is
  in note 853 here in this conference.

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*****************
* d i g i t a l *
*****************

TO: ENG STAFF:			    DATE: MON 15 FEB 1982 6:55 AM EST
    JACK SMITH			    FROM: GORDON BELL
				    DEPT: ENG STAFF
				    EXT:  223-2236
				    LOC/MAIL STOP: ML12-1/A51

SUBJECT: TASK FORCES, COMMITTEES; NOD; C-I T/F; PRODUCTIVITY REV.

  I just read the minutes of two meetings of a task force called
  Customer Installability.  It is not a task force it is a sewing
  circle consisting of 21 people!  If there weren't 3 people there
  who I know have real work to do and have done good work, I would
  ask that we simply dismiss the whole group.

  The minutes contain no real information on the subject.  We already
  have a spec on what CI is, and we have to do some work on
  products to get it.  This is not the work of a committee.

  My point, I would like you to come forward with a list of the
  various committees and task forces, etc that are working within
  your group during the productivity review.  I don't want to 
  look at them, but I expect you to have, and I want to know that
  you understand what's going on in your area.

  I believe 1/2 of these people could be let go from DEC today
  and our productivity would take a sharp rise.  If this is
  the case, I would like to have their names and since we have the
  reputation for never firing anyone we can put them in a new group
  I propose we start called NOD (No Output Division) where they
  won't take time from people who have real work to do.

  PS

  I'm quite serious about NOD.  Since it is so difficult to get
  rid of people, I want to make us at least not have them mixed
  in with the workers and suck up good people's time.

  15-FEB-82  06:55:06  S 31987  BURT

RE: <<< Note 4595.83 by SSAG::SUSSWEIN "an adrenal gland is a terrible thing to waste" >>>
                           -< ALWAYS do exceptions! >-

	This is a childish reaction. If you have nothing better to do you
	should find at least a NOD group somewhere. Plenty of people use
	TMS at their satisfaction. Do you really want to come back to paper?

	Joel

RE: .-1
	TMS at their satisfaction. Do you really want to come back to paper?
    
    Well I, for one, after reading all this about TMS and using "EXPENSE" 
    (a well written easy-to-use util) for several years, I am NOT looking
    forward to changing a system that works very well.
    
    I would hope that VP's have better stuff to do that sign-off a $6.50
    parking charge. The time he/she wasted there surely cost more than
    that. But then, if they have nothing better to do...
    
    .mike.
    

.86>RE: <<< Note 4595.83 by SSAG::SUSSWEIN "an adrenal gland is a terrible thing to waste" >>>
.86>                           -< ALWAYS do exceptions! >-
.86>
.86>	This is a childish reaction. If you have nothing better to do you...
    
    Right, and once again it is shooting the messenger.
    TMS just enforces business rules. Rules that always have been there.
    If those rules are silly then they need to be fought. 
    A single test escalation should accomplish that.
    
    If the penny execptions used to be (blindly?) accepted by say your
    manager, then it is surely (from what I remember from TMS
    implementation) easy enough to have your manager approve those 
    as before. But the _business_ has to decide the do so, not TMS.
    It's just a tool.
    
    fwiw,
    	Hein.
    
    
    

THAT'S IT!!!

Gordon's NOD has been implemented at Digital!
They just renamed it.

Instead of NOD, it is now called "VP".
Not only does it keep these people far removed from
productive workers, they actually think they're being
complimented when they are nominated for "VP" status!

Genius!

    The NOD had no possible means of adversely influencing the work of the
    real company (except as a drain on the bank account). Can you really
    say that about our 200+ VPs ? 

re: Do I want to go back to paper?

Why not?  I'm using PC based Expense right now.  It works 
great.  I input my stuff, print out the forms, sign them, 
given them to our admin person, and 6 days later there is 
money in my savings account.  I am very happy with how 
things work now.

I do paper now, and liked travelletter even better.  I wrote my own checks
and was reimbursed in real time.  How does TMS make this better?

	... as to what "better" is. If the the cost center managers can get
more control of cash flow, that's better in their view! Traveletter was a
a "sink" in that regard. And they will learn how manipulate this one, too.

.91> re: Do I want to go back to paper?
.91> Why not?  I'm using PC based Expense right now.  It works great.
    
    Noop. It does not work at all. It may work for YOU, but it
    creates work for other parts of Digital.
    
.92> paper now, and liked travelletter even better.  I wrote my own checks
.92> and was reimbursed in real time.  How does TMS make this better?
    
    It probably doesn't and it was never suppose to.
    
    I guess it is all about (not) setting the right expectations !
    
    Best I know, TMS was NOT created to make the process for the 
    individual better. That was just considered a 'desirable side effect'
    As long as it was functional and tolerable to the end user!
    
    According to several ((ex) ALL-IN-1 users) it has a reasonable
    interface, but that is clearly a matter of opinion. 
    I for one like is much better than paper.
    
    It is NOT intended to be a great tool for YOU, but for the Finance folks.
    
    It may well make your live harder, allthough it tried to avoid 
    that, but it make the back end processing so much easier.
    
    The current mechanismes in place may work good for you but it 
    does NOT work in any useful manor for the corporation.
    
    2�,
    	Hein.
    

    re: .94
    
    >>>  tolerable to the end user!
    
    A fundamental principle for successful applications development
    
    		"It should not be difficult to be a user!!!"
    
    

Well, even though we are supposed to be using TMS exclusively, IM&T
(or whoever is responsible for this kind of stuff these days) has been 
unable to fix a problem that prevents us at our location from having our
expenses approved.  I suppose it's a wonder they can find anyone who 
knows how to deal with the TMS "technology".

As far as saving back office time, it had better save a lot, because it is
costing everyone who has to submit an expense report a considerable
amount of time.

	FWIW, I believe the initial memo that came down said that a PC 
interface would be developed in the FY97 time frame.

    re: .96 - that is EXACTLY the point - instead of having points of 
    concentration (jobs) dedicated to the process, just move the
    work to 10 or 20 or whatever thousand number of people - it will 
    only add 15 minutes of effort to their work week (of course, we don't
    expect this to affect your productivity numbers, these are your
    expenses, figure it out on your time).
    
    	;>} Bill
      

    Heck with a PC interface -- what about a Web interface?
    

I just submitted my first report - using the "local" option and a DECterm,
I expected it to send the proper escape sequences to turn on the "printer",
but no, it just dumped the text to the screen.  Of course, I could cut and
paste, so it was not a problem, but it was not what I expected.

				Steve

    re: .96
    
    I spent a couple hours trying to get my expenses through the 'send'
    option on Friday and Monday on our local Detroit system - always came
    back with 'internal error (-3004)'. The help desk suggested that
    I try a different host, and that worked. 
    

	Help.  It's been requested that I augment my comments for a given
	expense report.  I get into to comments and have a "_" which will
	not take any data, I have the choice of "Exiting" <F10> and 
	Quiting <F8>.  Prev and Next scroll me up and down my 
	existing comments but nowhere does it tell me how to add to
	the comments.  The approver will not approve until I do so.

	I would be a TMS fan if it expedited my expenses.  Travelling
	for Digital is nothing but frustration.  Because my DECUS
	airline and registration were charged before my trip, my corporate
	credit card is in danger of being revoked while I try and 
	sort out this mess.  Yet I stayed in the hotel that I was told
	to, used the airline that was dictated by travel, kept every receipt
	for every bloody sandwich I ate.  Filled in the bloody TMS 
	crap the day I got back.  Maybe we are too big and consumed with
	process to work as a company any more.  What a waste to have me
	spending hours sorting this out instead of the work  I need to
	get done.

	Under "Options" you must set "Modify".

The TMS account on ZEKE has been set up to server the printers via DQS to 
the coffee station printers in ZK34. I tried it and it doses work. 

However, the burst pages for everyone are marked TMS_USER, so you need to 
shuffle through the pages to actually find your printout!


						-Paul

    
    	"Coffee station printers"??
    

    Re .102/.103 beg to differ, *I* read your "never mind" in .103 to mean
    that YOU're taking the blame for the loss of productivity you rightly
    complain about in .102.
    
    Simply because you finally divined the right incantation doesn't mean
    that all those curses weren't well merited.
    
    There's a reason that command-driven UIs were driven from the
    marketplace.
    
    PRODUCTIVITY
    

    TMS has a lot of 'features'. 
    
    Some of them are suprisingly nice. After getting the internal -3004
    during a 'sign' operation repeatedly on our local OHF machine, the help
    desk said it was a server problem and suggested that I try a different
    machine. I was pleasantly surprised to find all my receipt and comment
    data entry present when I tried a host at ZKO.
    
    Some of them are frustrating. I made a mistake and entered a trip to 
    Montreal as 'international' and submitted it. The approver rejected it
    and pointed out the little header in Appendix B that says to use US
    for Canada and Mexico travel. Unfortunately, this seems to be the only
    field that can't be modified, so I had to delete the expense form and
    enter all the receipts, exchange rates, comments, etc. again.
    
    Is there a newsgroup/notes conference/web workgroup for tms discussion?
    I haven't found one...

Submitted my clain Tuesday afternoon, approved this morning - even with
"exceptions" present.  An improvement over the paper forms, at least.

					Steve

.106

	The never mind was for the plea for 'help'.  I'm not sure
	it's just TMS that's the problem but the whole process.
	My plane tickets are charged to my credit card and by the
	time I get back from my trip it's overdue and I'm getting
	warnings and it costs Digital $.  I understand there is
	a way to indicate that a charge is for a trip but where do 
	I find this out?  I just get mail from some beaurocrat saying
	"Don't reply to this mail message", (implying I'll just ignore you 
	anyway.) 

	I, like Steve, would glady use a char cell app to speed up
	my refunds and cut down on Digitals paper/mailing costs.  It'd be 
	nice if we could ask questions and give feedback as to ease of use.

	-Pete

Why does the release of TMS remind me of a Microsoft product?

	RE: .110

	Maybe circa 1986, but not 1996.

							mike

    Tnx.
    

    Just got TMS and as a group we came up with some questions.
    
    1. Do not send a check for vehicle expense owed.
       So at the end of 5 years when you leave DEC you owe $7500.00?
       Is the accrued money owed to DEC added to your W2 at years end?
    
    2. Are we to keep track of the accounting of dollars? So when an
       expense is encountered ei:(Travel) we know the balance/expenditure/
       refund/owed?
    
    
    Henry.
    3. 
    
    

    .113
    
    I had heard, but NEED CONFIRMATION that the Car Plan A vehicle cost
    will be auto-deducted from your paycheck.
    
    Nancy

    re: .101

    The Detroit (and Minneapolis) system is suffering from DNS withdrawal,
    which in turn was causing the oft-reported (by lots of OHF folks!) 
    'internal error (-3004)'.

    The TMS Hotline has relocated the TMS desktop for the OHF site and
    service is restored.

    Hthy,

	Ron

    Can anyone tell me who to contact regarding setting up manager's
    accounts?

    
    Nancy:  call the TMS Hotline at dtn 264-8000 and request an approver
    password so your manager can receive EVs to approve.
    
    

    Why tank you!
    
    

    re: .114
    
    The answer I have heard is that the Plan A car cost will be accrued,
    and automatically deducted from your NEXT expense reimbursment check,
    NOT your pay check.
    
    /jim
    

    
    Who is in charge of TMS QA?  Expense reports for my employees are
    being sent directly to a VP as the signatory matrix is not correct.
    This is causing delays in what use to take much less time in addition
    to frustrating the VP who will not approve the unknown expenses
    for people he does not know.....
    
    Linda Bramblett
    

    This is an open letter for TMS/MIS and Digital management as a whole.
    
    I am part of a program team located in home offices and at a customer
    site. We used to spend aobut 20-25 minutes per person on a week of
    expenses. 
    
    Since the onset of TMS the following has occurred:
    Half the people in the group have yet to receive instructions. 
    Half the people have had instructions sent to their house.
    One person spent 1.5 HOURS getting an $8.00 expense input.
    One person has spent 3 ours and still has not gotten his expenses
    input into the system.
    
    The cost center manager has spent two days on hold ( at variuos times
    during the day) trying to get the "Approver password". Half the team
    members have "claims waiting to be approved" but since the cost center
    manager can't get through via the "special" line - their expenses sit -
    in suspense - 
    
    Other team members have set up their "profile" but can't do their
    expenses because of the mandatory 24 "wait" period - although what they
    are "waiting" for no one knows.
    
    This is absurb in the extreme - Why? because just when folks thought
    morale could not get any lower - the company manages to lower it
    through the institution of a new expense application - poorly designed
    - and even more poorly executed.
    
    Suggestions for improvement:
    
    1) PROVIDE A GRACE PERIOD FOR CUT OVER - say one month - to give
    approvers the necessary time and energy to set up the appropriate
    accounts.
    
    2) Provide for field flexiblity in the areas already defined in this
    notefile.
    
    3) Apologize to the employee community as a whole for subjecting them
    to this level of aggravation. 

    Well, now you've done it.  You prompted me to reply.
    
    As I have been following these proceedings, I have been waiting with
    trepidation the day when I would have to switch over to TMS.  Well that
    day is upon me and after looking at the instructions, listening to the
    horror stories of others and reading this topic, I came to the
    realization that there are managers in Digital that don't understand
    Economics.
    
    TMS seems to be another example of a Mnager saying that his/her $9.00
    an hour Clericals are spending too much time processing expenses.  What
    to do?  The answer is obvious, move the work to the people who are
    earning up to $30.00 an hour, some of them who bill on the order of
    $150.00 (Thats gross revenue guys, bottom line income to the company).
    So now we save half a week of the Clericals time for a savings of
    $180.00 per week and have the Techie spend 3 hours (instead of 1/2 of
    their own time, usually) for a cost of $90.00 a week plus a loss of
    revenue of $450.00 for net to the bottom line of $510.00 per week.  But
    wait, theres more!  That Clerical doesn't handle just one persons
    expenses, but 15 to twenty (at the unit level) for a savings of $180.00
    per week balanced against the $1,350 - 1,800 and a loss of revenue of
    $6,750 - 9,000 per week.
    
    Makes sense to me (:^{
    
    Larry

    I haven't collected enough expenses (headquarters-bound for a month or
    two, no major trips) to justify sitting down with TMS, so I still lack
    first-hand experience.  If what you say is true, Larry, then imho we
    are within our rights to ask whether said Manager was rewarded for
    instituting this change.  And if so, then why.
    
    Data?
    

    re.122
    
    I also have been biting my cheek on this one. I find hard to believe
    that we actually employ the person who instituted this system! Not only
    that, but the management that went with this after seeing it in use.
    (They really did see this in action and MAYBE used it. pls say yes) In the
    event that this system was SOLD to us.. Please hire that salesman, we
    could use him. Why we came out with this cumbersome, archaic and
    antiquated system is beyond me. Since using "EXPENSE" for some time, I
    would've hoped that we could have some how integrated that instead. IT
    works, and has a PC front end.. 
    
    Sometimes you have to just sit back and wonder......
    
    Joe 

When you choose Computer Based Training this is what appears.  Therefore,
if we need to complain how can we contact these individuals.  Also, how
can we have input for future enhancements.  Is this a Digital Organization
or a third party buyout?
                                   
                                   TMS         V 2.0
         
                C O M P U T E R   B A S E D   T R A I N I N G         

                  An application designed and developed by
                     Valbonne Learning Solutions Center


Here's the TMS menu ordering
  Travel/Advance Request                                     
  Expense Claim                                               
  Employee Profile                                            
  Computer Based Training                                     
  Vtx                                      
                  
I believe that this is the order of preference that I use TMS.  Can this
be configurable?  999.99% of my activities will be Expense Claims NOT
Travel/Advance Requests.

  Expense Claim                                               
  Travel/Advance Request                                     
  Vtx                                      
  Employee Profile                                            
  Computer Based Training                                     
                  

	Regards,

    
    re .124 etc..

    Yep, just finished using TMS for the first time...other then sending my
    first voucher to the wrong mgr not too bad.  I hope Burke knows what to
    do with it.  I'm glad I wasn't expecting a refund on that one !

    As stated before, I've never seen a tool developed internally work. 
    That includes other fine VMS based systems like CHAMP and BSS .

    Why is it that Digital is selling WEB integration,Microsoft Exchange
    LinkWorks and other products that have workflow capability to our
    customers and we still develop VMS DECform apps. 

    
    If they want to, they can hire my group for a $125/hr to create them
    the next killer expense app.  We can call it DECtravel... ya thats it
    
    It kills me

    carl
     
                                                                         

    The guy who wrote to us telling us to use TMS just left Digital...
    maybe there is hope for us... ;} yet.
    

    Would this "Nick the comptroller" be anyone who wrote into this string?
    
    I.e., is there any organizational trace of him/his work??
    
    This is getting downright interesting!!!
    
    

    
Re .107   CIM::LOREN "Loren Konkus"
    
>    help desk said it was a server problem and suggested that I try a different
>    machine. I was pleasantly surprised to find all my receipt and comment
>    data entry present when I tried a host at ZKO.
    
    Ofcourse. It is implemented as a distributed, client server, 
    application with a central database.
    
    
Re .121   ODIXIE::GARAVANO  -< Suggestions for Improvement >-
    
    Did your group consider sharing instuctions/envelopes?
    
>    One person spent 1.5 HOURS getting an $8.00 expense input.
>    One person has spent 3 ours and still has not gotten his expenses
>    input into the system.
    
    I'm sure those persons have other skills that are extremely 
    important to the corporation. May I humbly suggest that they
    keep on filling out expense claims in the most effecient way
    known to them and then have an administrative person enter
    the data in the TMS system on their behalve? Perhaps the same
    person that sorts and prints out their electronic mail and 
    enters their notes?
    
    
>    The cost center manager has spent two days on hold ( at variuos times
>    ... - their expenses sit - in suspense - 
    
    That's a bad start, but delays in the old system were measured in
    weeks, not days. They are all likely to get reimbursement within a 
    week notwithstanding the problems and faster still in the future. 
    
>    - and even more poorly executed.
    
    Could have done a better job, but it worked for many.
    
Re .122   TELGAR::WAKEMANLA 
    
>    TMS seems to be another example of a Mnager saying that his/her $9.00
>    an hour Clericals are spending too much time processing expenses.  What
>    to do?  The answer is obvious, move the work to the people who are
>    earning up to $30.00 an hour, some of them who bill on the order of
>    $150.00 (Thats gross revenue guys, bottom line income to the company).
    
    Some of that is true, but if your group believes that using TMS will 
    consistently cost more time to enter expense than their current system
    then perhpas continue to use that old system and find a lowly paid 
    administrative person to enter the expense claims on for them?
    Mind you, I _strongly_ doubt that after an initial learning 
    experience (= shock) there will be a noticable time difference, but
    thats just my humble opinion. In the mean time processin time _is_
    gained centrally and the expenses are processed more rapidly.
    
Re .125   TENNIS::KAM 
    
>When you choose Computer Based Training this is what appears.  Therefore,
>if we need to complain how can we contact these individuals.  Also, how
>can we have input for future enhancements.  
    
    Dunno. COntact 'hotline' ?
    
    > Is this a Digital Organization or a third party buyout?
    
    Digital internal development. Completed 7 years ago. Comments were
    very welcome then. It just took the US more than 5 years to decide.
                                   
>I believe that this is the order of preference that I use TMS.  Can this
>be configurable?  999.99% of my activities will be Expense Claims NOT
    
    Next time just before you get to this menu, please give me a call 
    and I'll come press the down-arrow key. It's comforting to know
    that this is your problem level with the application.

    :^). yes, that last paragraph was tongue in cheek.

Re. .126   NCMAIL::NADROWSKI
    
>    Why is it that Digital is selling WEB integration,Microsoft Exchange
>    LinkWorks and other products that have workflow capability to our
>    customers and we still develop VMS DECform apps. 
    
    Because NONE of that existed when TMS was developed 8+ years ago.
    At that time VMS/VT access was beleived to be omni present, and
    DECforms state of the art with promissing alternative UIs with
    good gorm/function seperation.
    
                    
    Hope this helps,
    		    Hein.

    So why is the U.S. implementing 8 yr. old text based software?
    
    It's getting really weird out here in the field. 
    
    

 >         <<< Note 4595.130 by SCASS1::RITZ "PRIVATE PILOT ASEL!!!" >>>
 >                       -< have UFO's landed in Mass? >-
 >   So why is the U.S. implementing 8 yr. old text based software?
    
    Because is gets the job done? Compare it to that old clunker 
    with no door locks and dials on its radio that you use to go 
    to the dump. Why not buy a nice new shiny truck with remote
    locking and 512 station presets on its (CD build in) radio?
    
    Anybody's guess really! My guess is that 7 years ago `they'
    decided that rather then provide constructive critisisme to 
    a nearly finished  application it was wiser to develop a 
    better one from scratch.  (can you spell NIH?!)
    
    Some 2 years ago (again, just a guess on my part) they probably
    started to realize that their wheel was still square and looked 
    for alternatives. Supposedly they then re-discovered TMS and 
    decided to go with it after all.
    
    Whilest I sympathize with the 'valuable minutes lost entering
    expenses claims theme' I believe any and all losses made there 
    completely and utterly pale when compared to the US based IS 
    investements made trying to define their own solution whilest
    TMS was available all along. Heck it wouldn't surprise me if
    the development effort that went in to grass-roots 'expense' 
    alone exceeeds the incremental cost of using TMS by unwilling 
    fingers. 
    
    Yes, by now it is showing its age, but it does the job and,
    unlike a web or pure PC application, it supposedly does so 
    for everyone. Too bad it was not introduced while still 
    deemed an acceptable UI, giving it half a chance to redeem itself.
    
    Whatever,
    		Hein.
    
    
    
    
    

    re .-1: Yes, we have focused on tools, not on the results. Processes
    and (re-)organizations are other good traps. However, if you do not
    see the whole any more, or it is too complex, you don't associate
    with it either and this is the behavior that results.
    
    We should spend more time explaining what we are trying to do so
    people *can* get out of penny-level thinking and focus on the pounds.    
    
    
    Al
    
    
    

    
    All this turmoil about TMS reminds me of the apprehension people had
    about the WEX gas card. Once people got used to it and realized how
    easy it was to use, the outcry died.

    I think once people get used to using TMS, they will look back on the
    old method and think how UTTERLY RIDICULOUS it was to wait WEEKS for 
    expense reimbursement, instead of 48 hours.

    Paul

    
    Well there is some good new with TMS... I am assuming repeat assuming
    that the software will go away in the next few years.  

    Since we only enter the last 2 digits of the year it may not be 
    year 2,000 ready!

    
   carl

Well it just locked up on me. 

I tried to re-enter it and complete the report I had started before a meeting.

Nope - locks up.  5 minutes waiting for TMS help desk to answer the phone,
someone else answers - gets to the same point I am and said "it works for me".
So what does he do, logs a call with the TMS Business unit and gives me a log
number.  I'll send that number into DCU VISA when my bill comes.

(btw - ALWAYS save, never use the QUIT button).

I love the documentation I've got for it too - they refer to the bolded text
as an "Icon" - ya give me a break.

bjm

        RE: all this about TMS..
        
        	Lets all agree about one thing. The TMS system is a client
        server based system. The SERVER side works great. Once an expense
        is approved the path through petty cash/finance to payment to
        credit union account/check etc is speedy, efficient etc. etc.
        
        That said the CLIENT side is a mess. The non-GUI interface
        requires rewriting to a PC-Based application that can interface
        with the SERVER side. The manager approval section needs to be
        re-written to a PC-Based application that can interface with the
        SERVER side. 
        
        	Sounds like OpenVMS/Windows-NT affinity to me!
        
        The paper side is a mess and probably can't be solved because the
        Government requires the hard copy recipts so the 'numbering and
        and mailing' of them will continue. But you don't have to wait for
        the paper trail to be finished to get the money. That is the heart
        of the system. 
        
        	What we should as management/finance to do is to create a
        GUI Client to replace the VMS based non-gui client and leave the
        server side alone. I think that could get through or at least
        publish the interface between the client and the server so that a
        'midnight-engineering' effort could create a workable GUI.
        

Re: .127

    The guy who wrote to us telling us to use TMS just left Digital...
    maybe there is hope for us... ;} yet.
    
I think you mean the guy who signed the cover letter that came with the
TMS package.  That person is 

               Name:  MICK PROKOPIS
                DTN:  223-4717
          Telephone:  508-493-4717
        DECNET mail:  PNDVUE::PROKOPIS - A1 MICK PROKOPIS @MSO
   Intrnl Mail Addr:  MSO2-2/B7 (Maynard (Powdermill Rd), Massachusetts)
           Org Unit:  CORPORATE CONTROLLER
           Position:  VICE PRESIDENT, CORPORATE CONTROLLER

That he had left the corporation is news to me!  And a great loss too.
My experience indicates Mick was one of the most customer-focused VPs
that I have seen in my 6 years in the field.  As the Corporate Sponsor
for the Fortune 500 account I spend lots of my time at, Mick's interactions
with the Executive VPs at this customer, was like a breath of fresh air,
in the field.

This posting has nothing to do with the quality of TMS; just my perception
of the quality of Mick Prokopis.

Ram

Re: .136

>  Sounds like OpenVMS/Windows-NT affinity to me!

Careful, OpenVMS and WindowsNT are not the only relevant platforms
regardless of the fact that the majority of this corporation thinks so.

>                What we should as management/finance to do is to create a
>        GUI Client to replace the VMS based non-gui client and leave the
>        server side alone. I think that could get through or at least
>        publish the interface between the client and the server so that a
>        'midnight-engineering' effort could create a workable GUI.

Simply create a Web front end to the server.  Then anyone in the corporation
can use their favorite browser on their favorite desktop platform to
access this application.

Ram

>that I have seen in my 6 years in the field.  As the Corporate Sponsor
>for the Fortune 500 account I spend lots of my time at, Mick's interactions
>with the Executive VPs at this customer, was like a breath of fresh air,
>in the field.
    
    I guess now we know why all these VPs are needed.

    I'll have to point the dreamer at this string.
    

    RE .137:
    
    
<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Edition : 3582              Tuesday 25-Jun-1996            Circulation :  4173


 Digital - Mick Prokopis joins IONA Technologies
	{Livewire, Worldwide News, 24-Jun-96}
   Mick Prokopis, vice president and corporate controller, will join IONA
 Technologies as chief operating officer and chief financial officer, effective
 July 1.
   At IONA, Prokopis will be responsible for consolidating and extending the
 company's impressive growth -- more than 300 percent last year.
   In announcing Prokopis' departure, Digital's Chief Financial Officer Vin
 Mullarkey praised him for his judgment, leadership and contributions.  "Mick
 provided outstanding leadership and performance during a very critical time in
 Digital's history," Mullarkey said.  "We will miss his talent and his energy,
 but we certainly wish him well with this new opportunity."
   Prokopis, a computer industry veteran, has also held executive-level
 positions at the Ziff Corp., Lotus Development Corp., and United Technologies
 Corp.
   IONA Technologies, a privately held software firm, develops and markets
 Orbix, the leading product in the CORBA (Common Object Request Broker
 Architecture) marketplace.  CORBA is the standard set by the Object Management
 Group which allows for cross-platform integration of software components and
 applications regardless of how, where or when they are implemented.
   Currently staffed by 120 people, with offices in Cambridge, Mass., Dublin,
 and Perth, Western Australia, Orbix sells primarily to Fortune 1000
 corporations, telecommunication providers, government departments and
 independent software vendors around the world.

    

I know at first this seems like the wrong place for this. But please 
bear with me.

I get tired of hearing jokes where the gist is "a software guy says, 
'Try it again.'"  Obviously, these type of jokes amuse people who 
have never had to support users in a real environment.

Why do I bring this up?  Because TMS is a prime example of why 
software people say, "Try it again."  About 50% of the time when I 
type "TMS" at the "$" prompt I get an "ACCVIO."  If I type "TMS" at 
the "$" prompt following the error message, then TMS usually works 
(sometimes I get a 2nd ACCVIO, but I've never had 3 in a row).

What is this?  What is it about TMS that it randomly ACCVIOs on 
invokation.

    
    This problem also occurred for a while on the cluster (BSS) under a
    previous version of the software.  I agree that random access
    violations are one of the toughest errors to track down in VMS.  
    
    There has been a significant number of computers which were used as
    mail machines which have been shutdown in the last year.  One of these,
    the site server at DCO, was reincarnated as ACISS2, where you were
    seeing these accvio's.  Unfortunately, an earlier version of TMS was
    brought along with the cluster and never upgraded.  
    
    It was upgraded yesterday.  If you still see this problem please
    log it with the hotline at 297-6100.  It may be a "try it again"
    situation but I believe it is more likely a known problem which
    has been fixed.
    
    ken
    

This is not specific to TMS, but since I will have to use TMS as of Monday,
I might as well put my question here as anywhere.

How do I enter gas purchases with a Wright Express card into my expense report?

Do I enter them with the right number of gallons but $0 cost (since it didn't
cost me anything that needs reimbursement)?  Do I ignore them completely
(since the automated reports by Wright Express will catch everything)?  Or
what?

I couldn't find any reference to this in the package that came with the card,
but I could have missed it.  I called the TMS hot-line, but after 20 minutes
on hold I gave up.  Thanks in advance...

-- Ken Moreau

    You don't need to enter the Wright Express stuff.  It's no longer part
    of your expense report.  From my understanding, keep the receipts and
    don't send 'em in with your voucher.

    The only expenses you enter into TMS are those you paid out of your
    own pocket (note that this includes charges to the so-called "corporate
    credit card")  Central billed airline tickets and car rentals are not
    entered into TMS.
    
    				Steve

You don't enter them. You don't even need to keep receipts
just fill the tank and forget it!!!!!!!!!


But, I find the receipt, with odometer written on them
helps me to retain my memory of where I went and when. Since
I drive 400-800 miles a week, that get tough to do by Monday.

On TMS, I'll say this again. After 17years in the field using
every other method, TMS is the BEST so far. Next day 
remimbursement never happeded before.I can fill these TMS 
screens out faster than I can write up the paper trail.

Yes I remember and used Air Travel card, and the traveletter
and that wasn't as good either.

You learn to avoid exceptions and if you cannot, use the 
comments field. Form feed your printer between copies and
its 6-10min for the entire experience. 

I do mine while part of a con-call.

yes, the first time took six hours, while mapping my keyboard
and learning some arbitray rules. 

Finally, spend some time on the profile and get it right!

    
    >        <<< Note 4595.147 by NQOS01::nqsrv131.nqo.dec.com::Workbench >>>
    >   You learn to avoid exceptions and if you cannot, use the 
    >   comments field. Form feed your printer between copies and
    >   its 6-10min for the entire experience. 

    Form feed your printer? Why?

    Paul

    Could someone please explain the exact procedures for using the TMS
    system when you have a "fleet" (Company Car).  I know you fill out two
    transactions per week and must be offset by one day, but how about the
    $30/week deduction?  Where is this entered?  How are the two
    transactions "linked"?
    
    John

    use receipts 
    then enter FD as the code and a negitive amount for your deduction.
    it will not assign a receipt number for it.
    
    

    >use receipts 
    >then enter FD as the code and a negitive amount for your deduction.
    >it will not assign a receipt number for it.
    
    Is this in the EC or VE menu?
    
    John

    VE

152 replies and still no sign of the end of this notes stream debating the
pro's and cons of TMS with a sprinkling of technical tips. Please someone
get a TMS notes file created and move the discussions there.


Bob (TMS not in Ayr site yet, but it is on the way)

RE: form feed your printer

It has been my experience, that the TMS print
option leaves an undetermined amount of "page"
in the printer memory after each report is
printed. It does this on both the LN03 and the
Canon BJ200 I have. So the form feed flushes the
left over space and then the next report will
start at the top of the page. Important when
you must use part of the report to show thru 
an envelop window.........

    re .154
    
    it hangs my system using a declaser 1152 and keaterm.  I usually get
    out one page then reboot.  I send up the first page since that's all
    that ever comes out of the printer.
    
    wonderfully tested software 8-;
    

    with all due respect to the previous noter who claimed how much faster
    TMS is than paper ...
    
    i've been doing expenses in parallel for the last 2 weeks just to see
    what gain might exist.  after 4 expense forms (2 voucher, 2 vehicle),
    it's like this:
    
    PC Expense:	15 mins total, can be done on the plane or in the
    		airport
    
    Paper:	40 mins total (with calculator), on plane or in airport
    
    TMS:	40-60 mins depending on system response, can't do offline
    
    i travel almost every week, and (until TMS) have never had
    reimbursement delays exceed 3 weeks (not that i care - i use the
    company plastic; let them worry about it).  most turnaround is 2 wks. 
    since TMS can't deal with vending machines and no receipts (when are
    the "experts" going to get smart and go to per diem?!?), i have yet to
    get any reimbursement  ... but i'm being patient, since this is all new
    and i screwed up one submission.
    
    the concept is nice, but the U/I is lousy.  i hope that the next
    incarnation of the software includes lots of changes based on feedback
    from people who travel all the time instead of occasionally.  and i
    hope that this feedback is actively sought.
    
    waxing somewhat cynical, this looks to me like another attempt to
    compensate for a few people who can't fill out forms properly or
    approve expenses in a timely manner by putting the hurt on the majority
    (smacks of the stupid "receipt for every nit picky expense" rule).
    
    my suggestion: integrate Expense/PC and the TMS server (via a "download
    into TMS button") and can the current U/I.  forcing people to do
    expenses online is (if nothing else) silly.

RE: -1

>    since TMS can't deal with vending machines and no receipts (when are

Why not just grab a pad of paper, make your own, and put the TMS number
on it?

>    the concept is nice, but the U/I is lousy.  i hope that the next
>    incarnation of the software includes lots of changes based on feedback
>    from people who travel all the time instead of occasionally.  and i
>    hope that this feedback is actively sought.

  Part of the problem IMO is that the folks who run TMS don't have an on-line
feedback channel. There is no TMS notesfile. When I first tried to use TMS a few
months ago, I sent some comments to the email address shown in the manual and
got a reply saying this email address is for system problems only and should
not be used for comments about TMS.
  Are the people on the help line keeping a log of comments? Even if they are,
I would much rather have an on-line feedback channel.
  Today I tried using TMS for the first time for a real expense and I was NOT
impressed.

    re using it with key term:
    
    try setting the printer to emulate ansi... as is suggested in the
    instructions.  I have no problem printing ....err, other then the form
    feed thingy.... 
    
    overall, it is better then paper... right direction I'd say!
    

I'll agree with .158 - no on-line help/feedback.  

I lost 30+ minutes of time entering reciepts for a two week trip because 
I was in the wrong "mode" to enter a comment about a line item I entered.

Did you know while entering reciepts that the REMOVE key works?  

Ya sure the arrow keys move you but I'll be damned if I can figure out where
I'll end up sometimes.  Then there's the "sometimes TAB", "sometimes RETURN",
"sometimes ARROWS" issue.

It does get easier once you figure it out - but it takes a while...  So its
really a bummer for the employee that travels once every three years.

bjm

    
    >          <<< Note 4595.156 by DYPSS1::SCHAFER "Character matters." >>>
>                                -< cumbersome >-
>
>    with all due respect to the previous noter who claimed how much faster
>    TMS is than paper ...

    The reference to speed was in the reimbursement process, not the time
    it takes to enter your information.

>    PC Expense: 15 mins total, can be done on the plane or in the airport
>    Paper:	 40 mins total (with calculator), on plane or in airport
>    TMS:	 40-60 mins depending on system response, can't do offline

    Is it really fair to compare a process you are very familiar with and
    have been using for years, with a new process that you are learning?

>    i travel almost every week, and (until TMS) have never had
>    reimbursement delays exceed 3 weeks (not that i care - i use the

    3 WEEKS! And you don't see a problem here?

    Paul

        The problem is that to use TMS you have to be on-line and this mode of 
operation is not productive for many of us who frequently travel. Period. 
Responces to this issue from people close to TMS seems to be more defensive 
than productive.

1. Yes, the processing end is EXCELLENT.

2. No, the user interface is not appropriate for a large number of TMS users.

        The sooner this is accepted the sooner we can kill this thread. A few 
user interface solutions have already been presented here. Let's consider 
these and others and move on.

        Wayne 

> >    PC Expense: 15 mins total, can be done on the plane or in the airport
> >    Paper:	 40 mins total (with calculator), on plane or in airport
> >    TMS:	 40-60 mins depending on system response, can't do offline
> 
> Is it really fair to compare a process you are very familiar with and
> have been using for years, with a new process that you are learning?

  Apparently, in the real world, the answer is "YES!".

  The learning curve is a strong dissuader from people picking up
  something new, especially if the perceived benefits of the new
  thing are not very big.

  If this were not true, Microsoft "Word" wouldn't be the world's
  leading word-processing software. There are other products out
  there that are far better, but two factors keep "Word" dominant:

    o Learning curve to switch, and

    o FUD surrounding file-format incompatibilities.


  So now ask yourself: In what proportions do the benefits of TMS
  accrue to the user and to Digital?

  As a now-once-a-year traveller, the old paper system I knew how
  to operate is *FAR, FAR* more attractive than a system that I
  need to spend time to learn and is almost certain to be temporary.

                                   Atlant

Another observation about the requirement to use TMS over a terminal 
emulator rather than offline...

I have been a telecommuter for over 18 months, and about 12 months of that 
from a location where there is no Digital site.  My access to the Easynet 
is currently over long-distance dialup, at about $0.08/minute.  I must have 
my circuit nailed up for the entire time I am in TMS, lets say 30 minutes 
per report (although I hope I can make it less as I get used to the arcane 
codes).  That means it costs the company $2.40 in telephone line charges 
for each report.  Since I travel nearly weekly, that's an incremental cost 
of roughly $100/year for me to input my expenses.

Not much, you say, given the increased efficiencies in processing at 
Corporate?  But let's look at the fact that a great majority of our U.S. 
sales force accesses the Easynet via a toll-free call from their Sales 
Workbench notebooks.  This call also ends up costing the company between 
eight and ten cents a minute.  Currently, this adds up to a SIGNIFICANT 
seven-figure phone bill per fiscal year.  I dare say that TMS may also add 
to that bill by a measurable percentage.

I'd say that could provide an immediate cost-justification for a 
"disconnected" version of TMS.

--Ed

     re:  .157

    >Why not just grab a pad of paper, make your own, and put the TMS
    >number on it?
    
    
    Be *very* careful what you write in the 4595.* TMS stream.  At least
    two of us were "hand-slapped" (albeit mildly) because Corporate Finance
    is watching.  They *MIS*-construed our examples of trying to work
    around the deficiencies of TMS as suggesting ways to cheat and steal. 
    They in turn contacted security who contacted us or managers.

    Admittedly, I chose words carefully to raise a brow. But frankly, I
    was insulted.  I don't cheat or steal or advocate either.  I am a
    stockholder!  I do advocate a better system than [parts of] TMS. I
    thought I was free to do so in this conference.  

    My hope is this was an aberration by some zealous TMS advocate (they were
    anonymous to me), but my now paranoid side says big brother is
    watching.  Beware!  Reply carefully!
    
    [I now hope I'm free to post this without stepping on someone's toes --
    but, this might raise a brow too.]
    
    --Steve
             

So someone's watching here for signs of cheating?  Great!

I know of a case where two employees colluded to cheat Digital out of
somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000.  I had hard evidence of it, the kind
you can take to court.  I took it to The Authorities in Digital, and they
told me I'd first have to pursue it with the vice president who signed off
on it.  I did so.  He decided to take no action.  End of story.

Until someone picks that one up, lay off Steve Elmore.

___Pete

    RE:           <<< Note 4595.166 by HERON::KAISER >>>

>>... lay off Steve Elmore.

     Might I suggest slightly different terminology here?
    
                                       Greg
    

"Hands off" Steve Elmore?

Some people are sooooo picky.

___Pete

    Well this isn't about me, be me "laid off" or "hand[ed] off". (I knew
    what you meant, Pete.)  I just wanted to raise the issue that there are
    some who watch this stream and interpret it wrongly.  The  high-road
    presumption should be those who cheat, don't post here.  They hide it. 
    Those of us who care, have felt free to post what's on our mind, trying
    to stir the pot to make things better [or us just feel better.]
    
    I hope that those who monitor this understand.  
    
    TMS can be improved.  But until it is, people will work around it's
    limitations, and perhaps post how they have done it.
    
    --Steve

Writing a receipt on a piece of paper meets the IRS requirements for a 
receipt.  They want to know that you accurately recorded an expense.  BTW,
after reading P&P 5.11 on expenses, it states:

|   -   Non-Receiptable incidentals must be recorded in the
|       Miscellaneous area of the Expense Voucher (e.g., tolls,
|       porter tips, public transportation) and should be itemized.

This should answer the question I actually responded to.

Brad.

    i recognize what the IRS will accept as a valid receipt; however, a
    receipt in this case is not required by the IRS (.LT. $25), but by
    digital.
    
    <rant>
    i find the whole receipt thing somewhat amusing and *quite* annoying.
    what makes my recording by hand on a piece of paper any more "honest"
    or "accurate" than simply recording the amount on a computer screen? 
    are travelling employees so dishonest that significant dollars can be
    requiring a receipt for *every* expense?  asomeone who can be trusted
    enough to be billed out at rates often exceeding $150/hr can't be
    trusted for a few bucks in meals?
    
    heck, i once even received a memo from corporate travel stating that a
    "meal log" is unacceptable (in lieu of receipts) as proof of meals.  if
    a meal log is unacceptable, why should a "vending log" be any more
    acceptable?
    <end rant>
    
RE: an earlier post incredulous about 2-3 wk avg reimbursement cycle
    
    in my circumstance, it makes no difference - apart from an occasional
    buck here & there, it's not my money.  it's on company plastic.  the
    float loss belongs to 1st Bank, not to me.  in general, tho, i see your
    point and agree that this is at least one good thing about TMS.
    
    i think it was wayne who said something akin to "change the U/I and
    move on".  well said.
    
+brad (but .NOT. smith 8-)

    .171
    
    Actually in my experience as an administrator for Digital verifying
    expenses for 11 years, I can tell you that there are a lot of dishonest
    folks walking around.  I have had several folks make up there own
    receipts for bogus items on which they never spent money.
    
    It is unfortunate that Professional Career doesn't = Honest Joe/Joann.
    
    

    I sometimes characterize the employee/implemented policies as adversative. 
    There just doesn't seem to be any trust and when there is an issue you
    know it can't be the individuals implementing the policies or the
    policies themselves.  It has to be the employee trying to cheat the 
    company.  I received this letter over the weekend, yeah ruined my weekend:
    
    They want us to itemize everything to make it easier for them
    but they never itemize for us.  They've indicated that I have $54.15
    in deliquent expenses.  I assume that a receipt is missing.  Now is
    this one receipt for $54.15 or is it the total?  I guarantee that when I 
    submitted my expenses that I included ALL receipts or I wouldn't have 
    submitted them.  However, they're claiming I didn't so now it's my word 
    against there's and guess who is always wrong?  Not them.
    
    
From:	DOHENY::DOHENY::MRGATE::"NEMTS::MRGATE::PROD07::PCDATA" 29-JUN-1996 11:55:48.42
To:	TENNIS::KAM
CC:	
Subj:	Message or Report from the Employee Disbursements System

From:	NAME: PCDATA <PCDATA@PROD07@MRGATE@NEMTS@PKO>
To:	BILL KAM@IVO@NEMTS@PKO

      TO: KAM, WILLIAM S.                                                                                                              
          IVO2                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                       
    FROM: EMPLOYEE EXPENSE - NNEFMC                                                                                                    
          BUSINESS CONTACT:                            RELOCATION CONTACT:                                                             
          LOC/MS: MKO1-1/L29                               MKO                                                                         
          DTN: 8-264-1970                                  8-264-0455                                                                  
                                                                                                                                       
          06/28/96        MKO EMPLOYEE EXPENSE                    PC4080                                                               
                          EMPLOYEE STATEMENT                                                                                           
                          MONTH OF:      JUNE 1996                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                       
          BADGE      :123470                                                                                                           
          EMPLOYEE   :KAM, WILLIAM S.                                                                                                  
          CC MANAGER :KALAGHER, DANIEL G.                                                                                              
          COST CENTER: 1E2                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                       
  This statement reflects outstanding advance(s) and unreconciled receipt                                                              
  transaction(s).                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                       
  BUSINESS & RELOCATION RECEIVABLE :                                                                                                   
  ********************************                                                                                                     
 TRANS DATE    CNTRL #    CURRENT    31-60      61-90      91-120     OVER 120                                                         
                          ========== ========== ========== ========== ==========                                                       
                          ========== ========== ========== ========== ==========                                                       
             TOTAL FOR BUS                                                                                                             
             TOTAL FOR REL                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
 TRANSACTION PAID, NO RECEIPTS RECEIVED :                                                                                              
 **************************************                                                                                                
 TRANS DATE    CNTRL #    CURRENT    31-60      61-90      91-120     OVER 120                                                         
                          ========== ========== ========== ========== ==========                                                       
    05/12/96      68322                   54.15                                                                                        
                          ========== ========== ========== ========== ==========                                                       
             TOTAL                        54.15                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                       
  NOTE:  Failure to submit receipts for processed transactions will result                                                             
         in a receivable being posted to your badge number.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                       
  If you have any questions or concerns regarding your EMPLOYEE STATEMENT or                                                           
  require additional information, please contact the Employee Expense                                                                  
  Customer Service number listed above.                                                                                                


VMSmail To information: MTS$::"IVO::BILL KAM"
    

    RE: .161 ("is it really fair" ... i missed this one earlier)
    
    don't see why not.  the UI is weak.  PC/Expense is intuitive and i was
    *immediately* up to speed.  same goes for VMS-based Expense.  this
    thing is ... well, arcane.  BTW - just entered this week's expenses. 
    an office week, so only 2 receipts. took 30 minutes.
    
    nancy - it's a shame you've got folks like this.  maybe i have a
    polyanna view that most people would try to do the right thing.
    
    i *still* think a per-diem would get rid of tons of paper-shuffling.
    
    +b (off to seattle, looking fwd to using TMS for this trip, too)

    
    Geez, all this negativity. Well, I for one, am very positive about this
    new system. It let me catch up on expenses (it was ALOT) in a matter of
    hours. Compared to hand-writing expense forms, vehicle expense
    summaries, etc., TMS is a pleasure to use. 
    
    Now I don't have to add columns, check totals or anything else. My
    secretary doesn't have to do it either. It's done for me. Why would
    anyone want to do that on paper?
    
    Every night I have expenses, I simply dial-up, enter them and check my
    mail. It takes me a mere matter of seconds to do my expenses compared
    to the old system. I get my money in 3 days, sometimes before the
    credit card bill comes in. 
    
    I create expenses which bridge multiple weeks, including 4 week vehicle
    expense summaries. To do this before, I had to fill in FOUR vehicle
    expense summaries, now I do ONE. 
    
    I do agree that a GUI would be nice, especially a PC based one which
    could accept the info off-line and then upload to the server. In
    addition, it would be nice if remembered mileage like the PC version,
    but...
    
    To close, I'm an old time deccie. I used to be in Software Services and
    suffered thru reporting time and also using the on-line system to do
    it. I thought TMS would be a burden, it looked stupid and wouldn't
    work. Well, I'm a convert and I wouldn't go back if you paid me (well,
    if you offered me Michael Jordan's expected new salary, maybe...).
    The terminal interface is the least common denominator, so it may not
    be pretty, but it's financially practical. 

 >         <<< Note 4595.130 by SCASS1::RITZ "PRIVATE PILOT ASEL!!!" >>>
 >                       -< have UFO's landed in Mass? >-
 >   So why is the U.S. implementing 8 yr. old text based software?
     
     .131   
 >   Anybody's guess really! My guess is that 7 years ago `they'
 >   decided that rather then provide constructive critisisme to 
 >   a nearly finished  application it was wiser to develop a 
 >   better one from scratch.  (can you spell NIH?!)
    
	yes, probably. The NIH syndrome added to the 'GOOD SOFTWARE CANNOT
	COME TOO FAR FROM MAYNARD AREA' syndrome have put aside many good 
	European solutions candidates for WW implementation. You can bet that
	TMS was the only choice after 5 years of hesitation. 

	In the heighties, European internal solutions were developed with
	common methods and tools, they were multi-country, multi-currency,
	multi-idiosyncrasy based... They usually were pretty good quality. 
	In the nineties, the centralization came and many of them were easily
	WW scalable as opposed to most US ones. Nonetheless very few European
	stuff became WW and in some cases we even bought external solutions
	where ours would have been good enough for these difficult times.
	
	Back to TMS, so 5 years were lost, not only for US but for everybody
	because I suspect the money which could have help improve TMS was not
	flowing on this side of the ocean. Now we live in Web times and you
	in the US do not like caracter cells UI. Too bad! But again to
	minimize your pain I'm sure numerous meetings were hold to decide
	this implentation. This should garantee that no other solution was
	possible and/or affordable :-( 
	
	Your last solutions are: 

	1-develop one in your free time but do not forget the WW roll-out
	  in your plans it's very time consuming :-)
	2-get use to it, you'll like it (after a while)! 

	Joel

	This is not anti-US stuff, just a bit of anti-centralization. I'm sure
	if the company was headquartered in Zimbabwe 'good software would
	only come from Salisbury' (and good VPs too!).

I have just sent the following to the appropriate person at TMS.
Plan A people beware.

----

I just received a mail memo from the Employee Disbursements System (see attachment) 
stating that I have a $90.00 outstanding balance.  I called DTN 264-1970 to find out what 
this means.  I found out that I need to send a check to Digital for the amount of $90.00.

This is not mentioned anywhere that I can find in any instructions I received.

Page 3, center column, "Vehicle Expense Cont." of the instructions I received for TMS 
states:

	If you owe Digital for your PERSONAL USAGE
	of the fleet vehicle, it will be automatically
	deducted from future expense reimbursements. 
	DO NOT SEND A CHECK.

Page 2, center column, "$Payments & Status" does not address sending Digital checks.  It 
states:

	. . .(less any receivable balance) will be ISSUED as a 
	check or direct deposit . . .


The problem is that I may not incur any more expenses for two to three months.  The 
person I spoke to said that was not good and that I would need to send checks to her 
office.

This needs to be told to people before they begin using the system.  

    Re: 173
    
      William,
    
        You can check your own claims in TMS.  I suggest you pull up the
        claim shown in your note (68322) and check for yourself as to 
        what the $54.15 represents. 
    
     Ken
    
    
      

    re . 177
    Can you get off the phone.  I'm trying to call and resolve my $54.15
    and the phone is ALWAYS busy - just kidding.
    
    I've been in work since 7:08 AM PST and have been trying to call
    regarding my receipts and have been getting a busy signal, I guess .177
    has been on the phone.  
    
    When I finally got in they asked if it was ONE receipt for 54.15 or
    an accumulation of receipts???  This was my question.  They also 
    indicated that the system is down and I'd have to call back later this
    afternoon.  Are they running this application on OpenVMS, UNIX, or NT,
    or DOS?  Could we get this on OpenVMS or UNIX to be ensured  24 x 7 x 365.

    I just got a call from one of the support people and we discussed this
    and I think we figured this out.  Here's what I submitted to TMS so
    far.  The expenses for 05-May-96 and 28-Apr-96 were done on the same
    day and I placed them both in the same envelope.  I assume that
    28-Apr-96 appears in the window and they didn't open the envelope to
    see that there were actually two weeks worth of expenses.  I don't
    remember reading that ONE-AND-ONLY-ONE expense per envelope.  I do now. 
    This is what I get for trying to save the expense of one envelope.  The
    support person indicated that he'd check with them.  I appreciate you
    assistance.
    
> 02-Jun-96 LAO/IVO/SDO/CWO/TUS  Business Partner Sup                         
  26-May-96 San Diego            Business Partner Tra    Y      Y   Processed
  19-May-96 LAO/SDO              Business Partner Tra    Y      Y   Processed 
  12-May-96 Seattle/Santa Clara/ Business Partner Tra    Y      Y   Processed 
  05-May-96 Irvine, California   Business Partner Tra    Y      Y   Processed 
  28-Apr-96 Irvine, California   Business Partner Tra    Y      Y   Processed 
    
    
    	Regards,

Re: .179  On the phone

Took me two hours to get a ring instead of a busy signal.

The woman was very helpful, and she gave me the TMS 
person's name when I asked to whom I should complain.

The 264-1970 number is not TMS.  These are the people who 
process our claims and write the checks.  TMS is separate 
from this process (which is the problem).  TMS only 
collects the information, verifies it against corp. policy, 
gets an approval, and forwards the info to Employee 
Disbursements.

So, the TMS users guide was exactly correct.  When it said 
"DO NOT SEND A CHECK," it was referring to sending a check 
to TMS in your TMS envelope (which is addressed to 
MK01-1/D24).  The check is supposed to go to MKO1-1/L29.  
However, since that isn't a TMS issue I suppose there was 
no need to put it in the TMS manual.  Unfortunately, I view 
the expense process as one contiguous stream of events, not 
a collection of independent data systems. 

The sad part is that this is how we treat our customers 
also.  

    Once again thanks to the three people that called to help resolve this. 
    Once TMS knows there's a problem they appear to be right there to
    assist.  Better response than at McDonalds.  
    
    Again, my problem was that I included 28-Apr-96 and 05-May-96 in the 
    same envelope, to save money, and the windows only showed the processing 
    number for 28-Apr-96.  I won't make this mistake again.
    
    
    	Regards,

Re: Fleet expenses and checks

Issue temporarily resolved.  TMS folks said we should
be getting a Readers Choice memo about what to do.

    
    How can 27,000 people be using this system and saving Digital any
    $$?
    
    Well, today an employee sent in an expense missing 1 receipt
    (a parking meter does not give receipts).  The choices on the
    exception list were few and far between, so, I picked one of
    the names.  Really don't know why a VP has to sign for $2.50.
    
    It costs more than that for him to log in and approve the
    $2.50.
    
    

<   It costs more than that for him to log in and approve the $2.50.
    
    Is that 'him' as in reference to a non-specific gender type?  Because
    you made one big mistake in using EXCLUSIVE language.  If you're in the
    SBU it's NOT 'him' but 'her'.  And yes, any exception over 0.01 needs
    to have her approval.  An email will come from her account REJECTING a
    $5.00 parking expense claimed under Miscellaneous without a receipt.  I
    speak from experience.
    
    Common Name:   MARIAN O LEARY
    Search Surname:  O LEARY  Search Given Name:  MARIAN  DTN:  297-3940,
    297-3940  Telephone:  Secretary-297-3936,  PEGGY TEMPLE
    Intrnl Mail Addr:  MRO1  Location:  MRO  Node:  MROA  Username:  OLEARY
    Org Unit:  SBU HEADQUARTERS,  Systems Business Unit
    Position:  Vice President Finance
    

    
    	Well, it's good to know that any exception under $0.01 doesn't
    	need her approval.
    

    
    This policy has been in effect long before TMS hit the scene.  I
    suspect that a lot of middle managers chose to ignore it.   In this
    case TMS is only the messenger.
    
    ken

    
       Parking should go under the "LT" or "MI" expense type. After
    you complete mileage you should then select "Receipts" and put
    any tolls and parking in by date with 0 (zero) (if no receipt) as the
    receipt number.  The Comment line can then be used to put in "Parking Meter"
    if there is no receipt.  Of course its easier if there are receipts.
    
       Now if they don't buy that a parking meter doesn't give receipts
    I'd say this company better start doing a reality check on the process
    or at least the "reviewers".
    
            Mark
            

    
    The choices for the exception approvals listed in TMS in this case
    were only "hims" so that was specific to this case.  Exceptions in the 
    past could go up 1 level of Management with approval, but TMS does not 
    have many exeception approval signatures in the system.
    

    There is no policy which states that exceptions could go up 1 level of
    management that I know of.  This may have been true in the past but I
    do not believe it is the policy now.
    
    ken

    
    Well, that is how it was working prior to TMS whether there was a
    policy or not for small items without receipts.  I think the level
    of signature required depended on what the exception was, etc.
    
    So, maybe there was no policy, but 1 level of management worked.
    
    

    190+ replies and no case like mine, so it MUST be me...
    
    I use SWB95 and have a DEClaser 5100 printer (Postscript).
    
    I set up for LOCAL and I get an error page printed every time.
    
    KEAterm does page prints, and ALL-IN-1 prints to this printer (Printer
    selected in ALL-IN-1 as "LOCAL PS" - This is undoubtably an ALL-IN-1
    customization).
    
    Does anyone else successfully print to a "LOCAL" postscript printer?
    
    (Now actually, my "local" printer is a network printer on my Windows NT
    system in my home office, but that is none of TMS's business...)
    
    

    And, FWIW:
    
    IMHO, TMS is a great improvement over what I had to do before, havaing
    used paper, the EXCEL kit, and EXPENSE.
    
    The problem with those puppies is they had to reproduce the
    retentiveness of the Digital Voucher.
    
    Just knocking back your receipts with a code works for me very well.
    
    I think that requiring a seperate code for each city's hotels and
    meals is just a bit over the line however.  I assume that this is
    something that is easily changeable if anyone decided on that.  (IE,
    the codes and limits are not "hard coded" in TMS but come from some
    sort of database.  At least they didn't make up codes for ALL the
    cities in POLICY.  (Ran out of Alphabet?)
    
    Now, if we had a client that would let you enter the relevant info
    off-line and then up-load to the server when you "touch down" it would
    be unbeatable.  And it sounds like that is at least being investigated.
    
    There are some sad stories in here, though.  Even a good application
    can't fix a broken manager.
    
    Frank Pruss (who caught up four weeks in about 15 min, beaucoup travel 
    and has the print date/time to prove it...)

    Does our badge limit which codes we can use?
    
    It seems like OS out to be OK, but TMS won't let me use this code.
    
    Frank

    re .192
    I have a Windows 95 system and have selected LOCAL and it prints
    successfully every time.  Maybe it's NT or maybe it's the network setup. 
    You need to move the printer local and try it to see if it still fails. 
    This will help narrow it to NT or the network setup.  Other than that
    LOCAL seems to work great.

    re: .195
    
    Thanks.  When my laptop gets back from the shop, I'll try again, with a
    REAL local printer. 
    
    Frank

    Are we supposed to wait until a claim is approved before printing or
    can we mail in the print-out that has "NOT APPROVED" on it?
    
    Frank

    If it doesn't have any exceptions I don't see why you can't just mail
    in the envelope.  How can it be disapproved?  If you have exceptions
    you'd better wait until everything has cleared and you might need to
    modify something.
    
    

I would guess the reason for the various city codes for 
meals and hotels is that these areas are allowed higher 
rates than the standard approved rate.

	Is there a NOTES conference on TMS ? I just returned home from a road 
	trip and submitted my expense. Worked fine...except my manager changed
	the c.c. to charge to. I cant get into that field on an already signed
	submitted voucher. I tried the help line and sat on hold for 30 
	minutes. I dont want to delete the whole voucher, even if I could
	figure out how to do it as its 3 + pages long. I just want to change
	the charging cost center and resubmit it to my manager. Frustrated 
	at home.....

	Red Newsham

    .201
    
    DTN 264-8000

   <<< Note 4595.202 by JULIET::MORALES_NA "Sweet Spirit's Gentle Breeze" >>>

    .201
    
>>>    DTN 264-8000


	Re-read. Tried that and was on hold for 30 minutes. Finally hung up.

	Red

    This may be in the instructions, but in case it is not...
    
    When I hit print the other day, I accidentally hit the <FIND> key as
    well and geuss what. It gave me 3 choices. Local, the printer in my
    profile and FILE (yes...) I selected file and wham, its there. I
    download with Kermit. Print really locally and it looks great...
    
    John

    I have never gotten my printer port (KEA! on a Windows 95 PC) to work. 
    It dumps out a line or two, and form feeds paper.  I print to a file
    (which invariably is the same name) and I have to import that into
    All-in-1, which has a PORT PRINT function that really works.
    
    From All-in-1, I just hit "P" and it prints out on my PC's port
    attached Canon Bubblejet.  I still have the "form-feed" problem, and if
    I do more than one envelope, I have to tape them together and do lots
    of origami.   
    
    My manager does not like the expenses going to Corporate, and has
    instead instructed us to send them all to him, which makes me get the
    nasty messages from MKO.  I send in the receipts Via FED-EX the day
    that I submit them.  He electronically approves them.  I get a deposit
    into my account in two or three days, and two weeks later, I get nasty
    messages from Corporate saying that my receipts are late, and that I am
    going to get the receipt amounts "deducted" from my pay.  I travel
    every week, and the receipts are sometimes higher than my take-home.  I
    hope they loosen up a bit, on those time-lines.
    
    JR
    

RE: .192 

>Does anyone else successfully print to a "LOCAL" postscript printer?

What works for me is to go to the front panel of the printer, set it to
HP PCL or ASCII mode, print from TMS, and then set it back to PostScript.  
Don't change anything in KEA! or start another non-PostScript queue or 
anything, just change the printer itself.

The reason the other applications work is that they are producing PostScript,
which the PostScript mode of the printer can handle.  TMS (among it's *many*
other deficiencies) only produces really ugly text output with minimal and
poor formatting, so you have to get the printer to adapt to TMS, rather than
the other way around.

You really want ASCII, but HP PCL mode is bright enough to recognize that
the data coming through is not PCL, and so it prints as ASCII text.

This works fine on my LN07, and I helped a Sales Rep do the same thing with 
her 5100.  

-- Ken Moreau

    RE: .207
    all I can say is "Thank God for Ken Moreau!!" I was having the same
    problem and decided to read the notes file - hoping and praying for a
    solution and --- as usual --- Ken - to the rescue -- again!
    
    Thanks!!

    there is an obscure reference on pg 2 of the TMS instructions about
    enabling "MODE: Normal" and "CONTROLLER MODE: emulate ANSI" ... look in
    the Options -> Terminal -> Printer dialog (or Configure -> Printer).
    
    without this being set, output *always* goes to the 1st printer in the
    list (you can observe this more easily if using print mgr to print
    stuff).
    
    +b

    Is anybody including a 30.00 dollar check inside the envelope when they
    send in a copy of their expenses. I think I read that we are not to do
    this, but I do not wont to have to write a 300.00 dollar check at a
    later date.
    
    
    Thomas

    No way my monthly MCI bill is going to fit in that dinky little
    envelope (8-10 sheets of 8.5x11").  Is it OK to use a larger manilla
    envelope, or will that cause them (and me) to get upset?

    What the information I received from TMS support they DO NOT open the
    envelopes.  They just store them away incase the IRS needs them. 
    However, on the front of the envelope are two check boxes:
    
    	Check Enclosed - Y: [ ]
    	Company Paid Airline / Auto Rental - Y: [ ]
    
    I assume if either of these boxes are check the envelope will be
    opened.
    

Re .211 - why do you send the entire billing from MCI?  All they need is a
receipt, which is usually the second page (as I recall) of the billing
(something which shows the total billing for the month).  I have never sent the
entire MCI bill and no one has complained yet (of course, now that I've said
this...).

--Scott

Two questions:
	
	How do I define a 'find' key in KEATERM, no selection of any of the
available keyboards have a working 'find'.

	How can I print to a file?  When I print to my LN03, it form feeds 
in the middle of the first page, so I would like to print to a file, and 
remove the form feed, (and all the rest of the white space), then print it.

Brad.

>Re .211 - why do you send the entire billing from MCI?  All they need is a
>receipt, which is usually the second page (as I recall) of the billing
    
    I'd assume if the IRS (or internal auditors) audited, they would need
    to see a breakdown of the calls to verify that no personal calls were
    made.
    
    I'll try just sending in the summary page from now on, I guess.
    

>	How do I define a 'find' key in KEATERM, no selection of any of the
>available keyboards have a working 'find'.
    
    It's probably mapped to the "home" key on the editing keypad, but
    with KEAterm you can always pull up the visible LK keyboard and just
    click on the "find" key when you need it.

    RE: .210 Checks in Envelope;
    
    I believe the instructions state DO NOT submit a check in the envelope.
    I think that they are just filing these envelopes away and that a check
    should be sent to a differenct dept/address. I'm just starting to get
    statements like the ones that were shown in here previously, with some
    balance under the recievables portion. I haven't sent anything yet, and
    don't intend to until there is some clarification. I also haven't been
    able to reconcile the statements with the expenses submitted or
    recieved.  I think they are trying to balance them out automatically,
    payables against recievables, but sometimes they send me the full
    amount that I submit and sometimes I only get a portion of it.
    Somewhere along the line, I'll need to see a full 'ledger' of what I
    submitted, what they paid, what I/they owe.
    
    Regards.
    
    Tom
    

    the find key on a pc keyboard is the Home key.

Put the check in the envelop. Mark the box..

The checks then get extracted and posted to
your balance. This has worked for me for the
last two months.

Whenever you find the balance getting out of 
hand (Not enough expenses to cover the fleet 
deduction), write a check. Pop it in an envelop
and any envelop will do. With any old ammount.

The check gets posted to your balance and that's
all there is to it.  

Expect about 10 days turnaround on the check....

re: 205  

What is the file name it gives you?  I couldn't find
any file on my system...

    re:-.1
    
    tms_expense_<badge#>.tmp;x
    
    multiple weeks=;1,;2,;3,etc...
    
    P.S. Should be in the sys$login (I think)...???
    
    John

I just found out I have to make a change to my profile for
this to work...

    Good news.   Fleet is working with TMS to deduct the fleet charge
    weekly from payroll. This should happen Sept. 1st.  No more writing
    30.00 checks every week for the Company car. I told them it was a good
    idea. 
    This is the only good thing about TMS I have seen.
    
    Conrad
    

    I noticed that one quickly receives a warning regarding sending in the
    receipts.  Is there a way to verify that the receipts were received? 
    Online?

	I got one less than 4 days (and issued over a weekend) from the time I'd
"signed" my expenses and two days after the VP of Miniscule Exception Processing
signed it.  I had dropped the approved printout and receipts in inter-office
mail (that epitome of speedy delivery) on Friday. I just sent them back hate
mail and I haven't heard anything more from them


						--Doug

    I was told that the automatic system issues those lovely "Dear John"
    letters at the end of the month.  So, on Jun 30th, if it had not
    received your envelope, you get the nastygrams.  I was told to ignore
    it unless I get the same message next month.
    
    - Vikas

  I found another bug in the system. If, on the "enter approver name" line,
you follow your intutition and enter the approver's full name, TMS displays
a list of approvers and asks you to choose one. However, several approvers
are missing from the list, including the one you just entered. This could give
the false impression that your manager is not entered in the system as an
approver.
  This bug doesn't occur in all cases. I tried entering the full name of an-
other approver and TMS displayed a one-line list with that approver's name.
That is (I think) what is supposed to happen.
  The FAQ memo says to enter the approver's last name (only) on the line, or
hit <CR> and get a list of approvers. When I do the latter, I get a full list.
  Also, I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but I tried entering my
manager's manager as the approver for a small expense (because I thought my
manager was not on TMS's list of approvers) and I got an email from the TMS
robot saying that the expense had been disapproved. No reason stated. However,
my secretary said this is because the expense was less than the amount that
requires this manager's approval.

The Travel Management System (TMS) was deployed in the US starting last 
year.  It has been deployed in Europe for about 8 years now.  As the US 
has been rapidly introducing new users, a number of questions have arisen 
about TMS and where it fits into Digital's changing technical picture.  
The attached answers are provided to help answer questions you may have.

1.  "Isn't TMS 80's technology?"  No, TMS is a three-tiered client server 
system designed for great performance while linking 40,000 users and 
their managers spread across nearly 200 locations.  It's only the 
character-cell client that is "old".  The client is terminal-based to 
reflect the fact that most of our employees have not yet switched to 
PC's.  The strategy is to diversify the client as the employee base 
evolves its desktop.

2.  Why isn't there a PC front-end?  The next step in the project is to 
create a Web front-end, which will allow users to access a captive TMS 
account from their PC.  This will be delivered by the end of Q1.  For 
users currently accessing a captive account through a terminal emulator, 
it will give you a simpler, more transparent entry to TMS.  For users 
entering through All-in-1 today, it will allow you to bypass All-in-1 and 
go directly from your browser.  We are evaluating a detached PC front-end 
as the next phase of the evolution.  That will be evaluated at the same 
time we re-evaluate work-flow/forms-flow (see item 5.)

3.  How does this fit with Exchange?  All of Digital will be migrating to 
Exchange in the next year.  As groups migrate they will use the Internet 
to access TMS.  The migration will help us evolve TMS faster, as it will 
eliminate the tens of thousands of terminal desktops still out there.   

4.  Do I need to have/keep my VMS account for TMS?  No.  Today, employees 
can access a captive account through a terminal emulator.  You just have 
to know the TMS node in your area.  For information regarding the system 
locations, call the TMS Helpdesk at DTN 264-8000 or (603)884-8000.  The 
captive account name is TMS_USER; no password is required.  If you need 
help setting up your emulator the first time, ask the Helpdesk.

5.  Why aren't you using work-flow/forms-flow?  Up until quite recently 
the workflow/formsflow tools available were designed for small co-located 
workgroups using central servers, not large groups spread over the WAN.  
In addition, the authentication and security controls were generally 
insufficient for an application that disburses money.  The tool-set is 
dramatically improving - this year we will be re-visiting the tool-set to 
determine what the best architecture for the back-end is.  

6.  Don't other companies have this automated?  No.  The companies we 
looked at who had any form of automation were using simple spreadsheets 
with no policy verification nor automated linkage to disbursements.  They 
helped you with the arithmetic and that's it.  The rest were using paper.  
Two third-party products are now available; we are reviewing them.

7.  Should I just wait until the new tools come out?  No.  Users who are 
active on TMS are delighted with the simpler way to complete expense 
claims, and even more delighted with the 2-day turn-around for receiving 
payment.  Why would you want to give up these benefits?  

8.  I'm not getting help/information about how to get going.  Each US 
employee has been personally mailed a hardcopy TMS Training Guide.  If 
you haven't received yours, send an e-mail request for one to USOPS::TMS.  
There is also a Computer-based Training inside TMS.  Last, many business 
unit administrators have been trained on TMS.  Ask yours if they can 
help.  For training for you and others in your organization, call the 
Help-desk.
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    I thought LinkWorks have workflow capabilities built into the product
    and that I could use whatever application of my choice, on my pc, and
    use the workflow capabilities to route the information through the
    correct channels.  The workflow could be determined by someone from
    Corporate.  Once again we don't use the products that we expect our
    customers to use.  

Out of curiosity, any idea what percentage of the company travels on company
business once a year or more?

						Brian

> The Travel Management System (TMS) [...] has been deployed in Europe 
> for about 8 years now. 
>
> 1. "Isn't TMS 80's technology?"  
>     No, TMS is a three-tiered client server

	1996 - 8 = 1988

	If it did not use current technology, what DID it use?  1970's
	technology?

RE: .228 -< Update on TMS >-

Rosalee, thanks for the information.  Substantive feedback like this, which
actually answers questions that many of us have, is greatly welcomed by
those of us who aren't trying to flame anybody, but just want to get our
jobs done with the minimum of administrivia.  It is also *very* good news 
that there will be a WWW and/or PC based front end to TMS.  

But I **must** take exception to one of your comments:

>7.  Should I just wait until the new tools come out?  No.  Users who are 
>active on TMS are delighted with the simpler way to complete expense 
>claims, and even more delighted with the 2-day turn-around for receiving 
>payment.  Why would you want to give up these benefits?  

Pardon me, but I don't know of a single person who is "delighted with the
simpler way to complete expense claims".  Appalled, frustrated, disgusted,
saddened, all of these words certainly apply, but delighted is not a word
that springs to my mind when thinking about the TMS front end.

Now, are we delighted by the 2 day turn-around for receiving payment?  Those
of us with responsive managers (and I am one of the people so blessed) are
thrilled with the turnaround in payments.  It is the tool which finally
got First Bank Visa and the local phone company to stop sending me nasty
letters talking about late fees.  So in that sense TMS is a big win for
both Digital (who sees reduced administrative costs) and myself (who gets
the money to pay the bills in a timely way).

Looking forward to the new front-end with great anticipation!

-- Ken Moreau

    I allowed myself to be terrified of TMS and did not log in as a user
    until today.  It is nowhere near as bad as I had prepared myself for.  
    In fact if you are still holding back....go for it, its painless,
    and the HELP DESK was responsive, knowledgeable and friendly.  My only
    two calls were to clarify the proper use of REASON CODES.
    
    A Windows front end would be lovely, but not all 53,000 of us have PC's
    or laptops yet, so a least common desktop denominator is logical.

    what is exchange and why is everyone (home-alone?) converting
    to it?
    

With fanfare and anticipation that would please even the Flying Elvises,
Microsoft Exchange hit the ground on April 2, 1996, at the NetWorld+Interop
conference in Las Vegas. Despite being overdue, Microsoft has delivered a
client/server messaging and groupware product that promises significant
advances in functionality, ease of use, performance, and scalability for
current users of MS Mail and other file-sharing messaging systems. Exchange's
integration with the increasingly popular Windows NT, aggressive pricing,
extensive third-party support, and the large number of enthusiastic beta
sites indicate that Exchange will establish itself as a leading e-mail
and groupware product in its first year on the market.

RE: .234 -<It's not that bad>-

I will agree wholeheartedly with your comments re: the Help Desk.  They
are stuck with one of the worst jobs I can think of (helping thousands
of people who were perfectly happy with their current tools who are now
being forced to use a tool that is IMHO extremely counter-intuitive), 
and they are doing a superb job.  Patient, responsive, while suffering the
abuse that I and others heap on them due to our frustration and anger
with TMS, and doing it all while still remaining totally professional.
Kudos for a very difficult job very well done.

I will also compliment TMS for getting me my money quickly.  I submitted
my expenses about an hour ago, and I just got mail saying that they have
been approved (I told you I am blessed with a superb manager and admin
assistant).  Based on this, the money should be in my account by next
Tuesday or so.  This part works well: nearly as well as the system we used
when I first came out to the field, which was Travelletter.  So in that
sense we have come full circle, from a system which got us our money quickly, 
through a system which took weeks, back to a system which gets us our money 
quickly.  Isn't progress wonderful? :^)

I just finished doing my weekly expenses, so I believe I am in a position
to detail what I perceive are problems with TMS.  They are:

1) Having to be on-line to do our expenses, as opposed to being able to
   fill out forms off-line and submit them via batch.  Many of us used
   EXPENSE, others filled out the paper forms, others used the Excel
   spreadsheet, and others used the ALL-IN-1 BA EXPCAR option.  Only
   the last one required us to be dialed in during the entire time we
   were doing expenses: the others allowed expenses to be done on the
   airplane/hotel/whatever, and submitted either off-line or with a
   very minimal connect time.

2) The extremely confusing and overlapping entry types.  The way I read
   the documentation, tolls go under either EC (domestic expenses), LT
   (local travel), MI (mileage expenses) or VE (company car).  And either
   receipts for tolls are required or they are not, depending on who you
   talk to.  Mileage expenses go under either EC, LT or MI.  Telephone
   charges go under either EC, LT or MS (miscellaneous expense).  And there 
   is no clue given *ANYWHERE* to tell you where they should be placed, so
   you will have some reps doing it one way, and other reps doing it another,
   creating a logistical/reporting nightmare if the IRS ever gets involved.

3) The requirement that EC (which is what I am using for 90% of my expenses)
   and VE (which I use because I have a company car) start on different
   days.  I'm sorry, but that is brain-dead.  All of the previous tools
   required that the car expenses and the other expenses be linked, and
   as such they started and ended on the same dates.  TMS requires that they
   start and end on different dates.  This means that I have to ensure
   that I track 2 sets of dates for every week, prevents the two reports
   from being linked when I look back 6 months to figure out what happened
   (and why Fleet Administration has lost half of my mileage, which they do
   with disturbing regularity), and in general is a pain for the end user.

4) The *incredible* list of expense categories under EC.  There are 23
   categories for "<city> HOTEL" and 22 categories for "<city> MEALS".
   What the heck is that all about?  It completely obscures the categories
   that people will be actually using every week, making them difficult
   to find in the list.

5) The fact that TMS doesn't remember practically anything about the user.
   Having to enter the approver name and the Fleet Deduction every time
   we do a TMS session is foolish.  Why isn't that in the Profile?

6) The appallingly poor print capabilities.  Having to turn off the 
   PostScript switch at the printer in order to get a print, and not having
   a way to get a file of the report placed into your default account,
   both pale into insignificance when you finally manage to get the report.
   When I was teaching "Introduction to Computers" at the university, I would 
   have flunked a first year CS or Business student who turned in a report 
   that looked like that.  Huge amounts of wasted white space (double spacing
   between expenses is particularly foolish), and an instruction to "fold
   here" so that it won't fit into a standard business envelope.

7) The Act:, Seg:, and Prj: fields are not used for the vast majority of
   the new TMS users.  Why can't we skip those fields, or fill them in on
   our Profile, such that we don't have to remember (every time we go into
   TMS) that we don't need these?

8) There is no help available anywhere.  Back in 1979, when we were working
   on the first Computer Based Instruction courses, many groups standardized
   on <PF2> as a <HELP> key.  Why wasn't that done here?  Also, the "TMS
   Training Guide" does not have a single screen print in it.  This makes
   it very difficult for new users to relate what they see on the screen to
   the words in the training guide.

9) Having to use special envelopes to mail in our receipts.  I have not yet
   received my original allotment of envelopes (which I was supposed to
   receive a month ago), and 2 separate orders through VTX LOS have also
   produced nothing.  I have a growing stack of receipts in my desk, and I
   expect to see some expenses start being denied because I haven't sent
   in my receipts for previous expenses, *BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE ENVELOPES*!

-- Ken Moreau

    about telephone expenses, they are to go under TE according to our
    manager, isn't standardization GREAT! The question I have is why didn't
    they add the networking to expenses and we would be in business..but
    let's reinvent the wheel.
    
    		Ken

    Well, I found that if I use KEA! Options->Terminal->Printer and check
    the Emulate ANSI box, then TMS's ANSI text gets dumped to the
    postscript printer driver as postscript and comes out just fine.
    
    In fact, as my laptop was in the shop, I had to use the 16 bit KEA! on
    my Windows-NT system.  I could not get "controller mode" printing to
    work at all with out doing this.  (even though page printing wen't just
    fine.)
    
    Whatever works for you.
    
    FJP

    Hmm...
    
    It ALMOST works...
    
    Each printing seems to give me a varying amount of "white space" at the
    beginning of the page.  bummer.
    
    I'll have to wait until my W95 laptop gets back to see how it goes on
    that platform.
    
    Frank
    

    It worked last week. But today, many of us in the office get DESKTOP
    error when we attempt to call up a list of approved signers. 20 minutes
    on hold and a dead line didn't resolve the problem. Plan B was to send
    mail, which I did. 
    	If it worked for 8 years in Europe, how come it's broke in the USA?

    re: -1
    
    Try another client.  Today I went into PHXSS1 which is disuser'd again
    this month, I reported it the last 2 months but didn't want to waste my
    time again.  I then tried BSS which aborted for another reason.  Then
    went to ACISS1, success.
    
    Good luck,
    Dave

    
    The DESKTOP error is a real misnomer. It means that you can't connect
    to the server. Error messages are not TMS's strong suit.

> Error messages are not TMS's strong suit.

  That begs the obvious question...

                                   Atlant

the obvious answer.....

	getting reimburse within 24hours!!!!!

> If it worked for 8 years in Europe, how come it's broke in the USA?

Because when it was brought to the USA, after long effort it was
"improved".

As long as I've been using it (in Valbonne) I've never seen any of the
errors mentioned here, have seldom had problems with it, and have had no
TMS-related printing problems.

The interface is outdated, but not as awful as the timekeeping software
(TRS, also known as SAMS) we have to use here; and unlike with the
timekeeping software, I don't have to log into a captive account on a
separate VMS system to use it.  Perhaps some day Digital USA will also have
the pleasure of SAMS; and on that day, this entire thread will look, in
retrospect, like a paean of praise.

___Pete

    The interface is horribly clunky, but I too have never had any
    of the problems the US folks are talking about.
    
    	Kind of satisfied of Geneva.

    >Perhaps some day Digital USA will also have the pleasure of SAMS; and
    >on that day, this entire thread will look, in retrospect, like a paean
    >of praise.
    
    Pete, I *never* thought the day would come that I'd se you join into a
    p�an contest.
    
    Disappointedly,
    
    /Dan
    
    :-)
    

    RE: .246
    
    We already have had to use SAMS for more than a year in our CIO group.  
    It's an ALL-IN-1 based system.
    
    Patti

re: .210
>    Is anybody including a 30.00 dollar check inside the envelope when they
>    send in a copy of their expenses. I think I read that we are not to do
>    this, but I do not wont to have to write a 300.00 dollar check at a
>    later date.
    
The instructions they sent out say, on page 3, under "Vehicle Expense" - 


 " If you owe Digital for your personal usage of the fleet vehicle, it will
   automatically be deducted from future expense reimbursements. Do not send
   a check" <---- (in BOLD type)

Arlan

Anyone else find it "odd" that this "software for the 90's" only uses a 2 
digit date field ???  Looks like we'll all have a year 2000 problem with 
expenses.....

Arlan

    Great... using only 2 digits for year means we might get a new UI
    sometime in our lifetime.  Now we have an upper bound on a schedule :-)

    It occurs to me that the TMS group has managed to set up some sort of
    print queue that manages to take hold of my terminal port and send a
    job down my terminal in controller mode.
    
    Is this in a toolshed anywhere?
    
    Frank Pruss - who wants to be able to print NOTES at home...

    I had assumed that they just sent the escape sequence that directs the
    output to the port printer, sent the document, and sent the escape
    sequence to turn off the port printer.
    
    Any queueing which takes place would have been between the terminal
    emulator and the o/s.
    
    This also explains why some terminal emulators will allow printing,
    while others will not.
    
    -- Russ

    
    I wonder how long it will be before this gets introduced into the UK (a
    part of Europe!!)
    
    We dont use it yet - well not in the bit of the UK i work in! (Actually
    i dont have to use SAMS either, thank goodness, its awful!!)
    
    Gerald

Frank:

> It occurs to me that the TMS group has managed to set up some sort of
> print queue that manages to take hold of my terminal port and send a
> job down my terminal in controller mode.

  I'd be happy to share with you my command file that allows you
  to easily print a VMS file at your VTxxx or *FULLY COMPATIBLE*
  termulator.

  It wouldn't be a one step solution, but it would come close.
  You'd need to do something like:

    Notes> SAVE/EXTRACT temp.tmp
    Notes> SPAWN @print_it


  But it would do the job.

  I suppose a sophisticated TPU hacker could bind all that to
  a single keystroke, but I'm not that person.

                                         Atlant

    	How do you enter more than 30 entries in the vechicle expense
    report .
    
    	It seems that once you reach 30 entries it just sits and waits .
    
    	From 
    	to
    
    	thank you
    	Frank Bernal

    
    It is possible there you can not enter more than 30 entries per claim.
    That would be more than 4 trips per day each day assuming one submits
    once per week. 
    
    Just enter 30 on one claim and then start a next one for an other day ?!
    
    Hein.
    

    For some accounts, four trips per day would be grounds for dismissal,
    on account of idleness!
    
    Hopefully this is not really a limitation of TMS!
    
    FJP

    Since I've done some now, I'll jump into the gripefest.  First, in
    response to the last few, 30 trips in a week don't seem to be all that
    much to either Sales or MCS.  Heck, I've done that many to a single
    customer with multiple, separate operating groups in a generally single
    site (but physically large area).  It all depended on just how granular
    your manager wanted you to get (and, yes, I had one that wanted to have
    the breakdown to miles and tenths for each sub-trip to each lab).
    
    Given that all TMS brings to the table is A) a database of expense
    limits and guidelines, and B) true electronic submission, it seems a
    waste that more effort wasn't put into checking the existing tools.
    There's little that couldn't have been added to Expense (or
    decendants).  O.K., so TMS was already written, and in use in places.
    There are things about Expense that are still nicer:
    
    	1)  Printout makes more sense, in addition to resembling the forms
    	    that we've been using for years
    	2)  Expense remembers data that needs to be added for each report,
    	    and allows changes to be made
    	3)  Some of the Expense variants add the ability to do off-line
    	    submission
    
    Yes, I'll admit that there are some things about TMS that are nice,
    too.  However, delays in processing aren't valid for each organization,
    and shouldn't be blamed solely on the tools.  Yes, TMS just validated
    my last expenses against some "Big Database In The Sky" that I hadn't
    voilated some corporate edict (and I have, the $10 surcharge for rental
    cars in the NY, NY area made the rental exceed the $40/day guide).  So,
    my approver will be able to check that I haven't done something bad and
    stayed at the $200/night hotel without looking.  This could have all
    been added to other tools.  It's not like TMS was put into production
    without changes, was it?
    
    It just seems that this is just another situation where those of us
    that use the tool haven't been involved with the decision to implement.
    Yes, once I had the specific codes figured out it was somewhat easier
    than Expense.  It just isn't so much easier that we needed to "throw
    out the baby with the bathwater."  I'll be very interested in just how
    long the approval and deposit take to process...
    
    Bob

    The 30 entry limit has been resolved personally by making the entries I
    make as FS MON, FS TUE, etc...
    
    I ran across this early on as I average 6 trips (to and fro) daily.
    
    John (dying for the PC GUI and my first approval)

    I haven't experienced many problems entering expenses in TMS, but as
    the administrator for an approver, the system is driving me crazy! 
    Yesterday there were 10 vouchers that needed approval.  Because our
    group is involved in the current reorganization, I need to print each
    voucher off so that we can keep records of what vouchers we are
    "approving on behalf of other organizations" until the signature matrix
    is updated to match reality.  I printed each of the 10 vouchers, which
    took about 15 minutes.  When I picked everything up from the printer,
    all I had gotten were error messages saying the file couldn't be found. 
    I went back in and it took another 20 minutes to reprint each voucher
    -- the waiting time from one screen to another is incredible.  Once all
    of the vouchers had been reviewed, I had to go back into TMS one more
    time to actually approve them for my manager -- 25 minutes later I
    finally got the last one approved.....  So, 1 hour was wasted yesterday
    to handle 10 vouchers.  Heaven help when everyone gets caught up!
    
    Pat

  Several notes here indicate that there's no TMS conference/notesfile.

  Is this still the case?

  I've just had my first real live experience with this fine piece
  of software and I'd like to send my feedback to someone. Also,
  I think a repository for the usual VAXnotes "hints and kinks"
  kind of discussions would be helpful for everyone who is sub-
  jected to this application. That way, we wouldn't all need to
  individually re-invent fire. (TMS *WAY PREDATES* the wheel.)

                                   Atlant


P.S.:, Yes, I know that "The person who proposes disposes", but I
       figure this might be a difficult file to moderate, so I'd just
       as soon find out some other poor sucker, er, person did it.

  Has anyone ordered and received additional windowed envelopes from LOS yet?

  I just ordered 25 and they just arrived in what looks to be an expensive,
  padded, 12 x 15 inch shipping envelope.  Oh well. It is at least reusable.

  I do hope the long term cost savings of this program is enough to overcome
  the additional expenditures in people's time... and materials during the
  learning process.

  	mikeP

    I order a piece of literature from LOS and it came in the same package. 
    The literature I ordered was a glossy on a digital product.  The
    literature was worth 2 cents.  The package is worth about $10.  I can't
    believe it.  I can place a hard drive in the package, ship it, and I'm
    confident that it would arrive intact.  I believe that it a big waste
    of expense how they ship stuff today.  However, since it's outsourced
    can we control this?  We must be paying big time for packaging that's
    an overkill.
    
    It's re-useable??? Let me know how to open it and I'll re-use it.  The
    packages that I'm getting - I could swear they're using some space age
    glue cuz I have to use a knife to open the package.
    
    
    	Regards,

>    The
>    packages that I'm getting - I could swear they're using some space age
>    glue cuz I have to use a knife to open the package.
    
    I just grabbed the flap on the back of the package and pulled.  It came
    off.  Musta been RA81 glue, I reckon.
    
    	Stu

    re .264
    
    I have ordered envelopes...
    
    When the initial TMS package of information came I orders 250 envelopes
    from LOS for all of our group to use.  Along with the envelopes came
    the packing slip/invoice. (Remember, your cost center is charged for
    the cost of items ordered from LOS).
    
    I never look at these packing slips but, for some reason, this time I
    did.  My cost center was charged slightly over $254 PER ENVELOPE, or
    almost $64,000!!!!  THIS IS NOT A JOKE - IT REALLY HAPPENED.  After
    seeing this I finally figured out that TMS is really a new revenue
    generating system for Digital.
    
    It took a few calls to my finance people and the TMS people to get this
    straightened out.  I belive the cost per envelope has dropped to
    something around $0.11
    
    Just my $254 worth!

    Wait 'til North American Van lines calls to schedule delivery!
    
    :-)
    
    Frank

    I just got mine (30 @ $0.13 ea).  The $3.90 of envelopes came in about
    $4 of packaging and probably about the same in UPS charges (they came
    within a few days of the order).

I thought it was a feature of TMS, that when you ordered envelopes, that you
also got the free stadium cushion! (Sort of a jack-in-the-box thing)

  :-)

referring to the two inch thick pading reservered normally, for fragile items
- unlike most paper items, which have traditionally arrived in inexpensive
cardboard, these arrived in a self-inflating foam/plastic container.  outa be
great for those football games.

    In retrospect, I'm seeing little time difference in getting reimbursed.
    It had been taking about a 1 to 1.5 weeks to get the dough in the bank
    before, and my first took is taking about that.  The second one, the
    one with no exceptions, simple, no air fare, just local travel, hasn't
    even been approved yet.  Glad I'm not holding my breath for the money.
    
    Tis not positive progress, IMO.  I'm still waiting for the envelopes,
    ordered about 10 days ago.  Hmmm, this memo from Mick says that I WILL
    receive them in a week.  Doesn't $0.13 seem a little pricey?  With all
    the supposed great things that can be done with TMS, why can't I just
    PRINT an envelope thru one of the printers here?  I remember reading
    somewhere that the envelopes were free...
    
    Bob

TMS automagically does currency conversions for you (as I found out on a recent
trip to Canada).  However, the conversion rate used by TMS was, unsurprisingly, 
lower than the one use First Bank (Corporate Visa).  It's not a lot of money
($US 6.11 for one charge of $US 494.95) but it makes me wonder if TMS lowballs
all conversions.  

  (He asks this na�vely...)

  Isn't there some way to force TMS to accept the *ACTUAL* conversion
  rates that you may have incurred? In the old days (several weeks
  ago :-) ), that's the way it worked. You simply took a weighted
  average of all the currency conversions (and reversions) that you
  made, documented that with receipts from the banks, kiosks,
  whatever, and there you went.

  Is Digital now conducting the equivalent of internatioal currency
  speculation *WITH OUR MONEY*???

                                   Atlant

    Yes, you can input the actual conversion rate.  It's in the
    instructions.
    
    			Steve

    
    In reference to .267, we also just got the bill for ordering some
    envelopes.  At this point in time, I am not convinced that this is
    possibly NOT saving the company any time or any money as we did not require
    special envelopes prior to TMS.  Also, as the hard copy
    receipts are not checked at the final destination, several managers,
    including myself, will not sign without seeing hardcopies.  My group
    at this time is distributed geographically, and so no real time
    savings has occurred in processing the $$ to the employee.  If TMS
    had to be a paid for like a utility (phone or electricity) by the
    amount you use, we would not likely use it at all.  
    
    Does anyone have any data on how this is saving or COSTING the company 
    when we need all the margin/profit we can get?
    
    I think this is a good example of what happens with technology when
    applications are rolled out without end user input or feedback.

    Does any TOP 6 Consulting firm that uses TMS or built its own expense
    system that uses VT terminal emulation in 1996????
    
    Well, back to work...  This is Sunday so that is the reason there is
    time for NOTES.
    
    Linda


    

    
    	After my recent trip to Japan, the conversion rate given by TMS
    	was much more generous that what I had been using.  But, I 
    	overrode their rate with the one I had been given.  It was
    	nice to be able to enter the amounts in local currency instead
    	of having to write each conversion on the 30 receipts I had.
    
    	Too bad the TMS folks couldn't have figured out how to use standard
    	size window envelopes and just sent us address labels for them.
    	Nothing to order, labels could be available at any site.
    
    	Bill
    

    .275:
    
    I'm not sure I'm NOT understanding you.
    
    Are you saying that you have your people submit hardcopy of their
    expense reports and the receipts to you before you sign off
    on the electronic copy?

A co-worker of mine was told by the TMS hotline that the conversion rates are
updated "once in a while" and are most likly wrong.  She was told to use what
ever conversion rate she had recieved during her trip.

bjm

    re "bad data" : Almost by definition, a currency conversion rate 
    will be "wrong" as it is a snaphot in time of a continually moving market.
    
    TMS at least provides you with all the main world currencies and a
    reasonable coversion rate to your own local expense currency.  If you
    either don't know or don't care, you will not be much out of pocket and
    might even be slightly in credit.  Additionally, it allows you to
    specify your actual rates experienced if you know them.
    
    Show me one (just ONE) other Digital (or other company) business 
    application that has this much respect for multi-currency handling.
    
    /Chris.

> Also, as the hard copy
>    receipts are not checked at the final destination, several managers,
>    including myself, will not sign without seeing hardcopies.  My group
>    at this time is distributed geographically, and so no real time
>    savings has occurred in processing the $$ to the employee.

Hmmm.  My group is also geographically distributed.  There is no requirement by
my management to send my hardcopy receipts to them first.  It seems to me that
there must be sufficient checks and balances in the system for this to work
without having to micro-manage those that work for you.  IMO.

--Scott

The US CSC also has the requirements that Work From Home folks send their 
TMS envelopes to our admin person so that the expenses may be copied.

Jilly

Bill:

> Too bad the TMS folks couldn't have figured out how to use standard
> size window envelopes and just sent us address labels for them.
> Nothing to order, labels could be available at any site.

  I'm sorry, I didn't understand this suggestion. If the TMS
  people used standard-sized window envelopes, then they could
  print the mailing address on the correct place on the form
  to simply show through the window; there'd be no labels
  required.
                                        Atlant

re .277    

>    Are you saying that you have your people submit hardcopy of their
>    expense reports and the receipts to you before you sign off
>    on the electronic copy?

I don't know if that's what he's saying but that's how it works with my 
manager. I submit my expenses electronically, make copies of all receipts,
send the copies to my manager (he's 1600 miles away), place the original 
receipts in the envelope, wait to see that my expenses are approved, and 
then send the envelope in. 

TMS isn't saving me a bit of time and doesn't get me reimbursed any quicker.
As an old CP/M guy though, I do feel comfortable with the interface...

tim m.

    RE: .279
    
    Have you _actually_ used TMS "feature" of entering the currency rate by
    hand?
    
    I had to do it after a trip to UK.  I had to enter the same currency
    rate 21 times for the 21 expense items :-(
    
    It always defaulted to the built-in currency rate and I  had to
    overwrite it for every single item i.e breakfast, lunch, dinner etc for
    every frigging day.
    
    When I called the TMS helpdesk, their response was "sorry, that's the
    way it works".
    
    - Vikas
    
    P.S. Somebody should send them the famous VMS SPR answer,
    	"We designed it the way want it, we chose the defaults the way we
    	 wanted; if you don't like our defaults, see Figure 1"

TMS multicurrency tip of the day, maybe: enter consecutively all items in a
given currency, and enter the correct rate for the first one when you enter
it.  Subsequent items will use the immediately preceding rate.  That's how
it works on my system, at any rate.

If you intersperse currencies, you'll have to reenter your rate for each
item.  But TMS doesn't care what order you enter data, so you might as well
enter all items of one currency consecutively.

___Pete

    RE: "why hardcopies" questions
    
    we have to mail hardcopies and wait, too.  there are times (most of the
    time, actually) when the customer is charged for travel expenses;
    naturally, the customer wants some justification for the charge (mostly
    for large ticket items).
    
    but, of course, no one asked anyone in our unit.

    re .281
    
    Yes, but our expenses do get approved before we have to send the
    receipts to our admin person.  My first claim using TMS was paid 2 days
    after I entered the information into TMS.  That is a lot better than
    the 2-3 weeks before TMS.
    
    John
    

    I am assuning that using 'TMS' envelopes is optional.
    
    Can't one just put the 'impossible to get folded in the right place'
    info on any envelope and send it in.  I can get pretty good envelopes
    at under 5 cents each, but more useful, it is just a stop at the local
    drug store/market during a milk run.

    Order 50 envelopes and be done with it. 

>>    I am assuning that using 'TMS' envelopes is optional.
>>    Can't one just put the 'impossible to get folded in the right place'
>>    info on any envelope and send it in.  I can get pretty good envelopes

Nope, need the `window' positioned correctly.  Regular envelopes won't work.

    I was told the reason for these envelopes is for faster processing upon
    receipt of the vouchers.  What they are looking for in the window is
    your badge number and voucher number.  These are input into the system
    before opened and verified.  This speeds the approval process along.
    
    Nancy

    Can someone either point me to the note that explains how one prints to
    an attached printer when working in their home office or explain it?
    
    Thanks,
    Nancy

    > This speeds the approval process along.
    
    I don't think so.  Your approving authorityapproves the reimbursement. 
    TMS system will deposit the money in your account even before it has
    received your enevelope.  I guess the enevelope does not even get
    opened unless there is a problem or an audit.
    
    - Vikas

    .293
    
    So no-one verifies receipts if it isn't done at the approving
    manager's level???????????
    
    Say it ain't so, Bob, say it ain't so. :-)

    Re .292
    
    Here's what I do...  I found a pointer to this somewhere in this string
    of notes.
    
    Configuration:
    	DECpc running Windows 95
    	DEClaser 5100 (aka LN09) connected to parallel port and configured
    		TO BE IN PCL MODE, not POSTSCRIPT (THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!)
    	KEAterm terminal emulator
    
    I have my TMS Profile set so that the printer queue is set to LOCAL
    
    I have KEAterm configured so that the default printer is my LN09
    
    When I run TMS and select PRINT the report prints on the printer.  The
    key to this is that the printer MUST be set for PCL mode, not
    POSTSCRIPT

    Uhm, sorry, but uh what is PCL mode?

    Congrat's You have exceeded my expectations,
    I never thought anyone could write a program
    that was worse than SBS.
    
    BTW it still is not working on Swam1 from A1.
    
    Joe

    
    	Good concept, maybe not so good in execution.  TMS uses RTR (heard
    that buzz-word lately?), if it's not up on the node you're using (or not
    up on the server cluster) you don't get nowhere.
    
    	How about all you users out there that have managers that don't
    trust your submissions?  That's where the payoff in efficiency is
    supposed to come from, rule-based software and your manager (e.g.,
    Admin Assistant) doesn't have to waste trees and time (and file cabinet
    space) copying and filing all this nonsense. 
    

    re .291
>    your badge number and voucher number.  These are input into the system
>    before opened and verified.  This speeds the approval process along.
    
    I was told, and I have proof, they DO NOT OPEN the envelopes upon
    receipt.  The ONLY time they'll be opened is if the IRS does an audit. 
    Other than that they're just filed away.
    
    I sent two expense weeks in one envelope.  I then started getting all
    these nasty grams indicating that 'I did not submit my expense
    envelope."  When I informed them to look in weekending 'whatever', sure
    enough they were both there.  TMS folks placed them in separate
    envelopes and I stopped getting those nasty grams.  The moral of this:
    One week per envelope.  Don't try and save the company money as it will
    cause you headaches.
    
    	Regards,

    Re. .292,
    
    I've tried all of the tips listed here for printing, and the print
    STILL doesn't line up at the top consistently.  I even tried all of the
    combinations of KEAterm Options-Terminal-Printer-Print Screen
    selections [Extent (page or Region) and Terminator (none or FF)]
    without consistent success.
    
    I called the hotline; they say they are aware of the problem...
    
    Regards,
    David.
    

RE: .295/.296

>    Uhm, sorry, but uh what is PCL mode?

Most Digital laser printers that I am familiar with (LN07, LN09, 5100, etc)
operate in one of 3 modes:

  - PostScript, which demands only PostScript and ignores everything else
  - PCL, which is HP's graphics language that is pretty much a standard
  - ANSI, which is raw ANSI text

Almost everyone I know of leaves their printers set to PostScript, and uses
the Digital printer driver which produces PostScript, and all is well.  But
in this as in almost every other way, TMS is deficient.  TMS produces raw
ANSI text with minimal (poor) formatting, and doesn't have the slightest
clue about PostScript.  The TMS documentation tells how to get around it
for those of us who use KEA!, but no one I know (including myself) has been
able to get it to work: it prints half pages randomly on the sheet of paper,
such that the information doesn't appear in the right place to make the
expensive envelopes work properly.

So the solution is to go to the front panel of the printer, take it off-line
(usually by pressing the "On-Line" button which toggles on/off line), press
the "Menu" button until the word "MODE" comes up on the front panel, then
cycle through the options until you see PCL.  Press "On-Line" again to put
it back on-line, print your form, and then go through all the buttons again
to put it back to PostScript mode for every other application in the world.

The reason you have to switch is that if our printers are in PostScript mode
and they see non-PostScript data, they simply ignore the data (the lights
flash but nothing is ever printed).  The PCL engine is smart enough that if
the data is not PCL, it is printed as straight text.

The other choice is to choose "ANSI", but I don't like switching in and out
of ANSI mode.  In the printers I am familiar with, choosing ANSI mode forces
a hard re-set and full power-up initialization of the printer, and choosing
PCL or PostScript mode when you are in ANSI mode is more difficult (lots more
menu choices to wade through). It would work as well as PCL mode, but is not
as easy to switch back and forth.

RE: .300 (David Wallace)

I *strongly* recommend you clear the Options->Terminal->Printer->Emulate ANSI
box, and follow the above suggestion for re-setting your printer.  Once you
learn the sequence of buttons on the printer it is fairly simple, and it has
always worked consistently and reliably for many of us on a variety of types
of printers.

-- Ken Moreau

    
    Being on-site at a customer full time (and officially a telecommuter)
    I do not have regular access to a printer, so I elected the file option.  
    This creates a text file called TMS_EXPENSE_badge.TMP (too bad the file
    name doesn't include dates or voucher numbers, my VMS account only
    permits three versions of each file).  
    
    I need to do two vouchers a week (regular and plan A car), so after 
    creating two (identically named print files, I exit to VMS
    and append one to the other.  Then I edit the concatenated print
    file and inset a form feed (cntl/L) at the top of the second voucher (which
    is right after the last page number of the first voucher) and rename
    the file for the appropriate period (i.e. TMS_2122JUN.LIS).  The next
    time I'm in a Digital office, I send the file(s) to a text printer.
    
    With regard to receipts, I sent in a set of receipts via inter-office
    mail a month ago and just got a warning that they do not have them yet. 
    From now on, I plan to use the U.S.Mail, bunching a few weeks together
    in a large envelope.  Costs are between 1 and 2 dollars for 1st class
    mail. 

    
    
    Another printer story:
    
    I use Win95 and slip in to the office.  All my logins are done
    through a shareware telnet utility called CRTi (I paid the registration
    fee myself).  
    
    I've found that I have to set the right hand margin to 0.0 from 
    CRT page setup to get TMS print to print the form correctly.
    The default setting were 1 inch all the way around and the
    form printed out all screwed up with a bunch of extra white space
    and unintelligible line feeds because of trying to keep a 1 inch
    right hand margin.  You would think the TMS form would have been designed
    NOT to go beyond a 1 inch margin......what the hey, why use standard
    business printing formats?
    
    Other than that, I had no problems printing to a DESKjet 500
    connected on my pc from TMS.
              
    The only OTHER problem I have is I work at home and have to mail
    the approved printout and receipts via us post office.  Those
    damned glass window envelopes don't quite fit right into a regular
    legal size letter envelope.  I've started mailing my documentation
    in just regular envelope because of that.  
                      

    This is my $.02. I think TMS is about the klugiest piece of
    application software ever. Im appauled to hear its been in use for
    9 years. 
    Everyones positive reply ie I get reimbursed in 24hrs. The old system
    EXPENSE I got reimbursed in about 1 week.I didnt see a problem with
    that. However, "now" who in MCS gets any reimbursements. (unless you are
    away in training 1 week a month). I pay every week something less than
    the weekly car plan. So... no advantage there.
    
    And why cant they fix the VE vehicle expense part that says .. only
    so many trips in a week. If you make a mistake after saving you cant 
    delete a line to enter it properly( ie its out of sync)You have to
    delete that entire week and start over. Now thats ridiculous.
    
    It doesnt remember the end mileage from the previous week. It doesnt
    remember the car rate ($30.00/week) etc. So I have to review the
    previous week.
    
    And why didnt they combine the vehicle and expense portions. If we have
    a non vehicle expense we have to create another week and enter it
    there.
    I m going to training later this month and I ringe at doing my expenses 
    when I get back!
    
    Some of it is pretty good.
    
    MikeTurro
    Baltimore MCS
    
    

    Oh, joy, the thrill of having EXCEPTIONS.  I've been on the road for
    three weeks now, and just Tuesday got approval for the last two weeks.
    O.K., I'm in a situation where I have had expenses well above the
    guidelines, but that was explained and the customer will pay in the
    end.  It was much simpler with the old tools, as I STILL had to copy
    receipts, but am now saving (HA!) because I don't mail them to anyone
    but the Worthy Keeper of the Receipts (I had to mail them to my mgr
    before, and he batched them to the WKofR).  Had this been under the
    Expense tool, I'd already have the $$$ from week 2 and #3 would only
    be a few days away.
    
    About the savings:
    
    	1)  It's supposed to free the managers/admin folk from having
    	    check policy
    	2)  It's supposed to keep from having folks to check policy
    	    at the FMC level
    	3)  It's` supposed to "ALWAYS" be faster
    
    	4)  It's supposed to remove the requirement for keeping
    	    local and manager's copies of receipts
    
    About envelopes; someone mentioned that a TMS person told them to
    write the expense claim number, badge and name on the outside while
    they were unable to get "real" envelopes.  I'm not sure if this is
    true, but I'll get the pleasure of finding out soon unless they
    finally deliver my envelope order.
    
    Sorry, IMO, (and as we say down in the south) "this dog don't hunt."
    
    Bob

  On the other hand, the return to "receipts not required below $25"
  policy (that matches the US IRS rules) will eliminate a lot of my
  potential exceptions. Somehow, I just never got it into my head to
  ask for receipts at "McDonald's" or "Ernie's Bar-B-Que".

  Still, I continue to think that TMS is a perfect example of"What's
  Wrong with this Corporation" (IT Division). It's easily the worst
  software I've seen in years.
                                           Atlant

    return to what?  Did I miss this one?  Can I stop bothering the poor
    folk at Burger King for receipts?

Yep.  Starting next week (Aug 17?), you won't need receipts for
any expenses under $25.00.

Of course, this doesn't help be for last week's expenses which
have been in the EXCEPTION approval state for 1 week now.  (I
forgot to get a receipt from Bravo's Pizza and Subs).

    One other little area that canuses an automatic exception that my
    manager can no longer sign for is rental cars.
    
    Company policy is sub-compact. I have a bad knee and when I'm doing
    trips outside of metro areas and am going to be on the road for
    extended time I have to have a cruise control to be able to walk when I
    get to customer site.
    
    Avis in their infinate wisdom doesn't feel people that drive
    sub-compacts deserve a cruise control, so I have American Express get
    me something larger with a cruise control. In the past my manager sign
    the expense report no problem. Now TMS flags the 2 dollar difference in
    rate as an automatic exception and as my manager told me, all
    exceptions go to the VP level.
    
    Now we know why we have so many, to sign expense exceptions.

    
> <<< Note 4595.308 by DLJ::"[email protected]" "This space for rent" >>>
>                            -< A return to sanity >-
>
>Yep.  Starting next week (Aug 17?), you won't need receipts for
>any expenses under $25.00.
    
    Where did this information come from?
    
    Paul

It came from a mail message from my CC manager.  The mail message also
contained the text of the new Business Expense policy (sorry, I don't
have permission to post it here).

    What are the odds that TMS will be updated to support this new policy
    by week ending 17-Aug-1996?

So if TMS isn't updated, you write out, on a slip of paper, the name of
the business, the amount of the expense, and "Expense policy no longer
requires a receipt for this."  Number the slip of paper and everyone will
be happy.

Work smart and quitcherbellyaching.

    Exactly the thing I was thinking of doing, by the way I talked
    directly to the TMS people they will shut the system down around
    that date, and update. They are well aware of what they need to do.
    
    I still do not understand all the negative comments regarding
    this application, it works for me. 

    re: .311   OK, I didn't find it VTX POLICY.   Anyone have an online
    copy?
    

    
    I have the mail, too -- will forward upon request. Full details of the
    change are supposed to be available through VTX and the policies web
    page on 19-Aug.
    

    The new policy for no receipts under $25 is policy HR005-11.  You can
    find it in VTX policy.  I kept the mail announcing it because I
    couldn't believe someone in management finally woke up.  I kept the
    mail to prove to myself that I wasn't imagining things.  The policy
    is effective on Monday 8/19.
    
    Now, on TMS.  It is without a doubt the worst application I have ever
    seen.  The rules and intent are ok, but the user interface is
    absolutely stone-age.  I would have expected something like this in the
    1970's, but not in 1996.
    
    My manager had not used TMS yet.  He just went on a trip and will need
    to use it this week.  I told him to drink plenty of coffee and clear
    away any other work before he starts.
    
    Why can't we have a Windows "point and click" interface for TMS ?
    The present user interface might be fine for VT terminals but it stinks
    for a Windows environment.
    
    Now if we can force management to use TMS (not their secretaries) then
    maybe we can get some changes and improvements to TMS.
    
    Don

    Here's the policy extracted from the IR and it DOES NOT mention
    anything about receipts less than $25.00.  It does mention:
    
|   -   Non-Receiptable incidentals must be recorded in the
|       Miscellaneous area of the Expense Voucher (e.g., tolls,
|       porter tips, public transportation) and should be itemized.
    
    	Regards,
    
    
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                      PERSONNEL                     | Section HR005-11          |
|                                                    | Page  1 of 20         |
|                 POLICIES AND PROCEDURES            | Effective 17-JUL-95   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                               Business Expense



 SCOPE: WORLDWIDE

 POLICY:

    Digital employees are often required to incur costs and expend
    Company resources in meeting their day-to-day responsibilities.
    The wise and efficient use of these Company resources is the
    responsibility of every employee.   Employees making decisions
    about whether to expend Company resources should ask themselves
    whether the expenses are necessary and in support of the
    legitimate interests of the business.  While all employees are
    expected to protect the assets of the Company, managers have a
    special fiduciary responsibility to ensure that Company assets
    are used appropriately and in accordance with Company policy.

    Digital reimburses employees for actual and reasonable travel
    expenses incurred while conducting company business.  Employees
    are expected to use good judgment when incurring business
|   expenses and for promptly and correctly reporting such
|   expenses. This includes expense claims and purchase orders.
|   Violations of policy may lead to Corrective Action and
    Discipline up to and including termination. Authorized
    approvers are responsible for reviewing and approving business
    expense claims to assure expenses are justified and in
    accordance with this policy. The direct approver must not be
    directly or indirectly a beneficiary of the expenditure.

    Managers are responsible for compliance with business expense
    policies and for cost-effective management of actual business
    expenses.  Managers will pre-approve only essential business
    trips and ensure that the right number of employees are
    traveling to support the business need.  Unless a business
    emergency dictates a shorter interval, employees are required
    to book travel 14-21 days in advance, making all arrangements
    through the travel agencies under contract and for utilizing
    Digital selected suppliers.  Reimbursement for air, car, and
    hotel expenses will occur only if booked through the agency
    under contract.

 PRACTICE:

 Administration:


    Travel Authorization

    -   All business travel requires pre-approval through the use
        of a Travel Authorization Form (TAF).  An electronic or
        hardcopy TAF is required for each business trip.  The
        Travel Authorization Form is available on line in $VTX
        TRAVEL.

    -   Employees using the Corporate charge cards for travel will
        retain their TAF in the cost center incurring the expenses
        and keep the forms in the cost center for record retention
        purposes.

    -   Employees that do not have a Corporate charge card and
        centrally bill their travel will be required to present a
        properly authorized TAF to the ticket distribution center
        or to the Digital contracted travel agency to obtain
        airline tickets or automobile vouchers.  TAFs for central
        bill (Company paid) charges will be forwarded to the
        central bill reconciliation department for record
        retention.

|   -   All international travel will require the written
|       approval/sponsorship of a Corporate Management Committee
|       member or designee associated with the particular business.

    -   It is the full responsibility of the approver to obtain
        appropriate signatures for business travel-related
        expenses.  It is not the responsibility of the custodian of
        airline tickets, Travel Authorization Forms, or advances to
        check for appropriate signatures.

 Travel Advances:

    To minimize the need for business advances, employees are
    expected to use Corporate charge cards for travel to pay for
    travel expenses.

    Travel Advances are available to assist employees in paying
    out-of-pocket expenses.  Normal daily business advance limits
    are $25.00 per day or $200 per trip, whichever is greater, for
    domestic (U.S.) travel and $50.00 per day or $400 per trip,
    whichever is greater, for international travel.

 Expense Claims (Vouchers):

    The Employee Expense Claim must be used for reimbursement of
    expenses for travel and business meetings.  Employees are
    expected to submit expense claims for trips requiring air
    travel and/or an overnight stay within seven days after
    occurrence of the expense or every two weeks if the employee is
    on an extended stay.  All other expense claims (including
    special mileage reimbursement claims) may be submitted for
    reimbursement every 90 days, but not more frequently than every
    7 calendar days.

 Miscellaneous Procurement Vouchers (U.S. only):

    Miscellaneous Procurement Claims must be used for miscellaneous
    purchases (not to exceed $250.00) paid for by the employee
    which are not of a recurring nature.  All purchases on a
    miscellaneous procurement claim require an original receipt.

 Receipts - Description of Expense:
|
|   -   Original receipts are required for authorized business
|       expenses.
|
|   -   Non-Receiptable incidentals must be recorded in the
|       Miscellaneous area of the Expense Voucher (e.g., tolls,
|       porter tips, public transportation) and should be itemized.
|
|   -   Overseas travel must include receipts of the exchange rates
|       to identify applicable conversion rate.  Access
|       $VTX_CURRENCY.  Also a free form foreign currency
|       conversion worksheet must be included with the expense
|       claim to identify the exchange rate calculation for
|       expensed items.

 Returned Check Fees/Repayment of Debts:

    An employee is required to reimburse the Company for any fees,
    expenses, charges, penalties or other costs the Company incurs
    because a check given by that employee is returned from the
    bank without payment.   Failure to repay amounts due the
    Company under this policy, (i.e. for outstanding advances or
    undocumented expenses) may result in Corrective Action and
    Discipline, up to and including termination of employment.


 Travel Arrangements:

    Access $VTX TRAVEL for listings of contracted travel agencies
    for car and hotel suppliers.  Use of these agencies allows the
    Company to take full advantage of cost savings opportunities
    and volume discount programs.

    To make en-route or after-hour changes, contact the agency's
    24-hour toll-free service for assistance.  They will have
    access to your travel profile, Company policy, and itinerary.


 EMPLOYEES WITH DISABILITIES:

    Travel agencies under contract with Digital will provide
    identified physically challenged employees with travel services
    necessary to conduct their business travel needs.
    Determinations of eligibility for these services is through
    Digital's Health Services Organization.

    This may include services such as automobile rentals with hand
    controls, specially equipped vans, hotel rooms with special
    facilities or other reasonable accommodations depending on the
    individual needs of the employee.

 INSURANCE:

 Flight Insurance:

    Flight insurance is not reimbursable to the employee while on
    travel status since Digital provides travel insurance for this
    purpose.


 Personal Property Insurance:

    Digital's Corporate Insurance Policy does not cover loss or
    theft of personal property while traveling.  This is the
    responsibility of the employee.

 Automobile Insurance:

    Avis Rent A Car System, Inc. is the primary car rental supplier
    in the U.S., Puerto Rico and Canada.

|   Budget Rent A Car is an auxiliary supplier in the U.S. and
|   Puerto Rico.  Budget should be used only when Avis is sold out
|   or does not have an office at the destination location.  For
|   accurate information on U.S. car rental insurance, reference
|   $VTX TRAVEL.  CDW/LDW should always be declined.  In cases
|   where CDW/LDW is not provided by either our car rental
|   agreement or corporate charge card, the employee's cost center
|   will be responsible for the deductible amount through the
|   expense claim process.  Access $VTX TRAVEL under Car Rental or
|   Corporate Charge Card sections for information on how to
|   process a claim.  U.S. based employees should also decline
|   Personal Accident Insurance (PAI).


 EXPENSES:

    Airlines - Commercial:

    Reimbursement for air travel expense will occur at the lowest
    fare offered by the travel agency meeting business
    requirements.  Review Travel Savings Programs in $VTX TRAVEL.
    Employees are expected to accept the lowest air fare costs and
    take alternate flights that depart within two (2) hour travel
    windows where:

    -   Flights of four hours or less including all connecting or
        direct (flight makes a  stop - no changing of aircraft)
        flights will not increase total travel time by more than 1
        hour.

    -   Flights of more than 4 hours including connecting or 1 stop
        flights will not increase total travel time by more than
        1.5 hours (90 minutes).

    Travel agencies under contract with Digital will produce policy
    compliance and exception reports for management review on a
    monthly basis.  Managers are required to review the flights at
    greater than the lowest logical air fare with the employee(s)
    who took those flights to ensure that the use of a higher fare
    was appropriate.

    Airline promotions, such as Frequent Flier programs must not
    increase the costs of travel to the company.  Employees are
    encouraged to use free tickets accrued through Frequent Flier
    points earned on business trips to reduce the costs of future
    business trips.

    International travel will be in coach class for flights of less
    than twelve (12) hours.  Business class is authorized for
    international flights of twelve (12) hours or longer.

    Downgrading of airline tickets to accommodate the travel of
    others is prohibited.   Digital will reimburse the employee
    only for the cost of the actual ticket(s) used.  In any case,
    where an employee incurs a cost greater than that covered by
    policy, the employee will reimburse the Company for the
    difference.

 Chartered Air Service:

    Requests for chartered aircraft must be coordinated through
    Digital's Aviation Services group.

 Automobile Rentals:

    All business travel reservations for car rentals must be
    made through Digital's contracted travel agencies.

    Automobile rentals may be used when public transportation or
    Company-provided vehicles are unavailable or inadequate.  If
    driving less than 25 miles, taxis or other ground
    transportation, such as airport shuttles, may be more
    cost-effective.  Contact the travel agencies under contract
    with Digital for additional options and for assistance in
    reserving ground transportation.

    Reimbursement for car rental costs will be at the Digital
    contracted rates offered by the car rental suppliers under
    contract.

|   Due to pricing of the corporate contracts with Avis and Budget
|   in the U.S., other car rental companies should not be used.

    Compact cars will be used when renting.  To further reduce car
    rental costs, double up with other employees on car rentals
    whenever possible. A larger vehicle is acceptable and more
    economical than renting three (3) or more separate vehicles.

    Employees will refuel car rentals prior to drop-off to avoid
    high cost fuel surcharges.

    For automobile rental information and I.D. numbers access $VTX
    TRAVEL CAR under Car Rentals.

 Mileage Allowance:

    It is Digital's intention that employees will pay for their own
    mileage between their place of residence and their workplace.
    Any required business mileage incurred during the workday in
    excess of that normal commute will be compensated in accordance
    with our business mileage policy.

    Employees are encouraged to use regularly scheduled Company
    aircraft/shuttle vehicles whenever possible.  Where personal
    vehicles must be used, the amount of reimbursement is based on
    actual business miles driven.

    This policy also applies to those employees who are using
    vanpools or carpools to commute to work.  Mileage reimbursement
    is provided, as measured per vehicle odometer, to these
    employees only when they drive their personal vehicle and when
    the mileage incurred in a workday exceeds that of the normal
    commuting mileage as defined above.

 Reimbursement for U.S. locations is as follows:

 22.5 cents per mile

    This provision does not apply to field personnel who are
    governed by the Business Transportation Policies and Procedures
    or to Digital employees outside the U.S. where local mile/km.
    policies are defined.


 OTHER TRANSPORTATION POLICIES:

    The Company places limitations and restrictions on
    transportation practices.  For additional information on
    transportation policies see Personnel Policy HR005-12, Use of
    Private Aircraft on Company Business; Personnel Policy HR005-17,
    Executive Group Travel Limitations; and Personnel Policy HR005-18,
    Non-Business Aircraft Usage.


 Travel Incentives:

    Many airlines, hotel chains, and car rental companies offer
    travel incentives through promotional programs and/or
    individual gifts which provide for upgraded and free/reduced
    travel. Employees may not intentionally increase the cost of
    travel to the Company in order to accumulate bonus points or
    any other incentives.  Travel industry gratuities must not be
    accepted by employees for personal gain.

    Employees are reminded that rewards and other inducements such
    as denied boarding compensation (cash, reduced costs for future
    travel, free tickets) and discount coupons received in
    conjunction with business travel are Company property and must
    be returned to the Company.

 Familiarization Invitations:

    It is Digital policy not to accept any familiarization trip
    offered by an airline, hotel/resort, car rental company, travel
    agency, steamship company or a city convention or visitor
    bureau. A familiarization trip is defined as one in which a
    Digital employee is invited by a hotel/resort, airline,
    steamship company, travel agency or a city convention/visitor
    bureau to spend a number of days to become familiar with them
    at no cost to the employee or Digital in return for expected
    business.

    If there is legitimate reason to visit a facility which is
    being considered for a meeting, it is Digital policy to expense
    whatever costs are associated with the site visit.

    Under no circumstances is a Digital employee to accept
    complimentary hotel rooms, meals, airline tickets or any other
    promotion offered by the aforementioned services.

 Combined Business/Vacation Trips:

    Occasionally employees may wish to combine a business trip with
    vacation or to have a family member accompany them on a
    business trip.  In such cases, only the employee's direct
    expenses relating to the business purpose of the trip are
    reimbursed.  Expenses incurred by a spouse or other family
    member or expenses relating to the vacation only are not
    reimbursed nor should add cost to the employee's travel
    expense. These trips must be scheduled based upon business
    practicality, not personal convenience.

 Off-Site Meetings:

    In some cases off-site meetings (e.g., a meeting in a
    non-Digital facility for which the employee or the Company is
    charged any fee or additional expense) may be authorized,
    provided they meet a business need or they represent the most
    effective way of addressing a business problem.  Managers are
    responsible for ensuring the appropriateness of expenses
    incurred by:

    -   Obtaining the approval of a Vice President in advance.

    -   Obtaining the approval of the next higher level of
        management not in attendance at the meeting.

    -   Limiting attendance to employees necessary to the business
        goals of the meeting.

    -   Limiting expenses for lodging and meals in compliance with
        Company guidelines.

    -   Contacting DECTraveler @MSO to help reduce the cost of
        travel, or POWDML::DECTRAVELER to receive air fare costs,
        discounted hotel services and meeting planning assistance
        for meetings requiring travel planning such as air travel
        or lodging and other services.

 CORPORATE TRAVEL CHARGE CARDS:

    Company-issued Corporate cards must be used for business travel
    arrangements (e.g., air, auto, hotel, meals, and business
    meetings, etc.).  Only the approved Corporate cards will be
    used to charge travel expenses for authorized business trips.
    These charge cards are intended for use in connection with
    business related expenses and not personal expenditures.

    Digital will issue Corporate charge cards to frequent travelers
    who anticipate incurring two business-related expenses a year.

    Frequent travelers will be reimbursed ONLY for air, car, and
    hotel expenses charged on the Digital corporate charge card.

|   For Corporate card applications - Access $VTX TRAVEL Corporate
|   Card.

    Employees are responsible for making full payment to the charge
    card suppliers (less any disputed charges) prior to the next
|   billing cycle.  An appropriate administrative procedure will be
|   implemented to address accounts determined to be delinquent.
    Account delinquency may result in suspension or cancellation of
    charging privileges.  Employees who have their card canceled,
    suspended or revoked either by Digital or the charge card
    company will not be eligible to obtain another Corporate card.

|   Cost center managers are responsible for retrieving and
|   destroying Corporate charge cards from employees who are
|   terminating.  An automated process is in place to notify the
|   charge card vendor of account cancellation.

 MEALS:

    Access $VTX TRAVEL for meal spending limits by city.  Employees
    are responsible for keeping accurate meal expense records
    including tips (see Receipt Section of this policy).  Hotel
    room service should be minimized, these prices are typically
    50% more costly than restaurant charges.

 CUSTOMER ENTERTAINMENT:

    Customer entertainment will be reimbursed at 1.5 times the
    daily meal spending limits.

 HOTELS/LODGING:

    All hotel reservations for business travel must be made through
    Digital's contracted travel agencies.  Reimbursement for
    lodging expenses will be at the hotel rate offered by the
    travel agency meeting business requirements.

    Access $VTX TRAVEL for all hotel rates and spending limits.

    The selected rates are the city spending limits and will be
    utilized to achieve cost reductions in lodging expenses.  These
    rates are based on current surveys and indices and do not
    include gratuities, local city surcharges and taxes.

    Digital has negotiated selected rates with many mid-scale
    chains/hotels near Digital sites, airports, and major cities.
    Rates can also be used for personal travel.  Where Digital
    selected rates are unavailable, the lowest hotel rate
    convenient to business needs must be used.  All individual
    lodging expense must be employee paid and cannot be centrally
    billed to Digital.  Approved methods of guaranteeing rooms for
    late arrival are Company charge card, personal charge card,
    advance deposit, check or purchase order.

    When travel plans change, all rooms for late arrival must be
    canceled through the travel agency or directly with the hotel.
    When canceling a hotel, record the cancellation number.  "No
    show" billings may be assessed if reservations are not
    canceled. "No show" bills are the responsibility of the
    traveler, should not be billed to Digital, and will not be paid
    for by Digital.

    Recent hotel negotiations have limited the use of Corporate
    I.D. numbers.

    Large group events which involve limited hotel space in a
    centralized geographic area require employees to share a hotel
    room when appropriate.  For example:  DECWORLD, training
    events, DECUS, etc.

 ALTERNATE LODGING:

    Employees who stay with friends or relatives on a business trip
    are authorized a reimbursement of $20.00 per day, or the local
    country equivalent, to provide the host/hostess with assistance
    in defraying the additional expenses of lodging for the
    employee.

    Other reasonable expenses incurred by the employee for meals
    are reimbursed according to Company guidelines.

 MISCELLANEOUS:

    Additional reimbursable items are ground transportation (e.g.,
    taxis, shuttles to airport, parking and tolls.)

 Telephone:

    The Company's DTN network or Company telephone credit cards
    should be used to reduce the cost of long distance calls.  Long
    distance calls should not be placed through hotel desks due to
    the significant surcharges which are often added, especially
    when overseas.  Personal calls may be allowed when the employee
    is away over extended periods of time.  Employees are expected
    to use good judgment concerning the frequency of such calls.

 Cleaning, Pressing and Laundry:

    Reimbursable only on expenses actually incurred during a trip
    of more than 5 days.  Claims for these laundry expenses must be
    submitted within 7 workdays after completion of the trip.


 Tipping:

    Meals - Reasonable judgment should be used regarding tipping.
    Generally, 15% is considered reasonable, which should be
    included with the cost of the associated expense, where
    applicable.

    Non-Meal - Porters $0.50 - $1.00 per bag.  Gratuities for
    house-cleaning room services $1.00 per day.

 Non-reimbursable Items:

    Items of a personal nature are not reimbursable.  Examples are:

    o   Personal Goods - Cigarettes, magazines, newspapers, toilet
        articles.

    o   Personal Entertainment - Theater, movies, sports events,
        in-hotel room cable television charges, etc.

    o   Personal Dues to Clubs - Airline, car rental and hotel
        membership clubs, memberships for other clubs or credit
        cards not authorized by the Company, private insurance
        coverage apart from Company-approved business travel
        insurance.

    o   Personal expenses incurred at home as a result of being
        away on a Company business trip are not reimbursed.
        Examples include child care fees, snow removal, lawn care,
        boarding for pets, etc.

    o   Personal Bar Bills

    o   Personal Items -  Digital will not normally reimburse
        employees for personal items lost/stolen while on Company
        business.


 CELLULAR TELEPHONES U.S.:

    Digital is committed to supplying its employees with the
    appropriate tools to meet business goals and objectives at the
    best possible cost.  To this end, Digital will provide
    guidelines to facilitate the deployment, use, and management of
    cellular services.  It is expected that employees will utilize
    these services, paid for by the business units and functions,
    in a responsible manner.  Specifically, the primary telephone
    service for use within the Corporation will be the DTN with
    cellular service being utilized only to expedite communications
    with the customer in order to contribute to the success of the
    business in meeting its goals.

    A national cellular program has been established to provide
    Digital with competitive cellular air time rates throughout the
    U.S.  Under this program, cellular access and service will be
    centrally billed and managed.

 Authorizations:

    o   Personnel authorized to use cellular within the Corporation
        will be those individuals who are in revenue generating
        jobs with a routine need to make and receive time critical
        customer calls.  The Senior Management Committee Vice
        President or their delegate will issue a written memo to
        his or her organizational controller and the Manager of
        U.S. Telecommunications, identifying the specific employee,
        group(s) or category of employees authorized to utilize
        cellular services under Digital's national contract.  The
        Senior Management Committee Vice President may delegate
        this responsibility no lower than cost center manager level
        by issuing a written memo, naming the delegate, to his or
        her organizational controller and the Manager of U.S.
        Telecommunications.

    o   Once enrolled, the business costs associated with the
        employees use of cellular service will be paid by Digital
        and cross charged to the employee's cost center.  The
        employee expense voucher will no longer be used for the
        reimbursement of cellular expenses.

 Responsibility:

    o   Under this policy, Digital has accepted the responsibility
        of paying for those calls which are made by the employee
        for "BUSINESS PURPOSES ONLY".  The employee must reimburse
        the company for all personal calls which are billed to the
        Corporation.

    o   Cost center managers are responsible for reviewing the
        billing of their employees, provided by
        telecommunications, to ensure that these expenses are
        appropriate.  In instances where cost center managers are
        also cellular users, their managers are responsible for
        reviewing their cellular bills.

    o   Cost center managers are responsible for ensuring that
        compliance testing occurs on a regular basis as part of the
        overall business controls plan for their organization.

    o   Employees are responsible to review billing provided by
        Telecommunications and highlight all incoming and outgoing
        PERSONAL telephone calls made during the billing period.
        Employees must submit the bill and a check for the amount
        due (prorated taxes included) payable to the Corporation
        within two weeks of receipt of the monthly billing through
        Employee Disbursements.

        A sample form and the reimbursement process can be found
        under $VTX NNEFMC, $VTX SEAFMC and $VTX MWFMC for this
        purpose.


 Equipment:

    o   Employees are responsible for the purchase of their own
        cellular telephone.

    o   Digital will assist in the purchase of cellular telephones
        by reimbursing an authorized employee for up to 50% of the
        purchase price to a maximum reimbursement of $100.00.  In
        order to be eligible for reimbursement, the purchase MUST
        be made from Digital's approved cellular service
        contractor(s).  Access $VTX CELLULAR for information about
        the current contractor(s).

    Under this policy, Digital Employee Expense Voucher will be the
    only method used for reimbursement of the purchase of cellular
    telephones.

    o   Digital assumes no responsibility, or liability for the
        cellular telephone equipment.

 BUSINESS TRIPS OVER THREE MONTHS:

    Normally, international business trips with an anticipated
    duration in excess of three months will be treated as
    short-term international assignments.  For further information
    on this subject, contact the International Relocation
    Department.

 EXCEPTIONS:

|   Exception approvals for reimbursement under this policy must be
|   granted by a member of the Corporate Management Committee or
|   his/her designee on a case by case basis.


                        Digital Equipment Corporation

    
    According to the mail I received:
    
|   -   Original receipts are required for authorized business
|       expenses.
    
    will, on 19-Aug, become:
    
|   -   Original receipts are required for authorized business expenses in
|   	excess of $25.00 U.S. dollars or equivalent. If special situations
|   	arise where receipts are not provided, an explanation should be
|   	written and filed with the expense voucher.  Authorized receipts
|   	for air travel reimbursement are either the Airline Passenger
|   	Coupon or the Travel Agency Invoice showing the same data elements.
    

> Avis in their infinate wisdom doesn't feel people that drive
> sub-compacts deserve a cruise control, so I have American Express
> get me something larger with a cruise control.

  I've only rented from Avis twice in the last few months but
  the subcompacts I rented (the Pontiac version of the J-box)
  had cruise control. You may want to ask Avis again.

                                      Atlant

    Vehicle equipment often varies with location.

    one of the few pleasant surprises during the last 2 yrs travelling has
    been the *willingness* of the local Avis franchises to provide a
    no-cost upgrade or minimum "change of vehicle" for any i didn't like.
    
    the only exception was in denver - i got an exchange, but the mgr on
    duty whined real hard that i would ask for one.
    
    didn't require a receipt, either.

    >Yep.  Starting next week (Aug 17?), you won't need receipts for
    >any expenses under $25.00.
    
    Not much behind the times, the IRS approved up to $50.00 without
    receipts last summer.  I know because my wife works there, and I
    submitted expenses last summer in that way with another company.
    
    Dave

From:	DOHENY::DOHENY::MRGATE::"SALES::A1::RESOURCE.HUMAN" 12-AUG-1996 13:03:46.32
To:	TENNIS::KAM
CC:	
Subj:	HR005-11 Business Expense Updated Policy                               1

From:	NAME: Human Resources                <RESOURCE.HUMAN@A1@SALES@PKO>
To:     See Below

***************************************************************************
    This Memorandum is from Jose Ramirez, Human Resource Policy Manager
***************************************************************************

I have attached for your information the Summary of Changes associated with 
the Human Resource Policy HR005-11, Business Expense. This information has 
been sent to your attention because we wanted to ensure the proper level of 
awareness by the employee population.

The new policy will become effective and made available on August 19, 1996 
via:
 	VTX (Access $VTX POLICY); and 
	the WWW (Access URL:  http://www.ljo.dec.com/SMC/pol/home.htm)
                                     


                   TM
    | | | | | | | |
    |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|			      INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM
    | | | | | | | |
    
    To:  Human Resource Policies 	      Date: 19 August 1996
         Manual Holders			      From: Jose Ramirez
    				      	      Dept: Corporate Personnel
    				      	      Ext:  223-9584
    				      	      Loc:  MSO2-1/C4
    
    Subject:  SUMMARY OF CHANGES TO THE HUMAN RESOURCE POLICY MANUAL 
    
    
    
                          Business Expense (HR005-11)
    
    
    
    SCOPE:    Worldwide
    
    EXCEPTION APPROVAL:
    
    o	 Current Policy
    	 
    	 Requires Corporate Management Committee member or designee on a 
         case by case basis
    
    o	 New Policy
    
    	 Two levels of management that have signatory approval for the 
         entire expense voucher on a case by case basis.
    
    ADMINISTRATION:
    
    TRAVEL AUTHORIZATION
    
    o	 Current Policy
    
    	 All international travel will require written approval/sponsorship 
         of a Corporate Management Committee member or designee associated 
         with the particular business
    
    o	 New Policy
    
    	 While all travel continues to require pre-approval, international 
         travel no longer requires Corporate Management Committee member or 
         designees approval.  

    
    RECEIPTS
    
    o	 Current Policy
    
    	 Original receipts are required for authorized business expenses.
    
    o	 New Policy
    
    	 Original receipts are required for authorized business expenses in 
         excess of $25.00 USD or equivalent.  If special situations arise 
         where receipts are not provided an explanation should be written 
         and filed with the expense voucher.
    
    AIR TRAVEL RECEIPT POLICY
    
    o	 Current Policy
    
    	 Passenger coupon required as receipt
    
    o	 New Policy
    
    	 Authorized receipts for air travel reimbursement are either the 
         airline passenger coupon or the travel agency invoice showing the 
         same data elements.
    

Distribution:
This message was delivered to you utilizing the Reader's Choice delivery 
services.  You received this message because you are a US Digital employee. If 
you have questions regarding this message, please contact the author.

    Quick observation......
    
    In reviewing submissions to my manager, I've noticed that for business
    meetings, the TMS system does not ask the pertinent questions that
    allowed us to keep expenses in line, such as:
    
    	. What city was the meeting held in?
    	. Was it breakfast, lunch or dinner?
    
    We keep seeing vouchers for business meetings that indicate "no policy
    exceptions", but if I were to process it 'the old-fashioned way', I
    would be rejecting the vouchers for not following policy - 1.5 times
    the personal meal rate.   It appears that TMS used 1.5 times the full
    daily personal limit as the maximum per person.  Given the emphasis on
    keeping expenses down, this does not appear to be a good system to use.
    
    
    It would seem that TMS thus allows 

    To whomever has the bad knee:  would a note from your doctor convince
    "Digital Medical Services" that you qualify for a car with cruise
    control (ref: the section on employees with disabilities)?

    Getting a doctors slip for the bad knee is not the problem.
    
    The problem is that getting any car except a sub-compact regardless of
    the circumstance is an exception. American Express can reserve anything
    you tell them, but it's an exception, even if the larger car was rented
    for medical reason, or to haul 4 DECies.
    
    And the other note was correct, some cities do have sub-compacts with
    cruise and some cities will upgrade at no extra cost, many, however
    will not.
    
    

Well - TMS has been down (for many of us) since last weekend. I just 
finished two weeks of travel and was going to enter my expenses before I 
leave for another 2 weeks, but have not been able to get into TMS. The TMS 
"helpdesk" says they know about the problem but do not know what's causing 
it or how to fix it. 

Great "software for the 90's" ......  (which still only has a 2 digit date 
field and will blow up in 3.5 years, assuming it's still in use by then).

Arlan

    It's still effectively down - all you can get is: 
    
    %TMS-F-DESKERRN, Desktop Error : INTERNAL (-3004)   Call TMS Hotline
    
    I just got a big bill on one of my own credit cards for stuff I put in
    an expense report for as soon as I got back last Monday, and I can't
    even check up on where it's hung up.  Great system we got here...
    
    /Charlotte

works fine for me

six reports in (20min) from last three
weeks (vacation time).

>works fine for me
>
>six reports in (20min) from last three
>weeks (vacation time).


West Coast (Southern Cal) TMS servers are DOWN ! Have been for several 
days. Glad it works for you, but it's broken for thousands of others.


Arlan

    The guy who (finally) answered the TMS hotline told me a secret: try
    all the servers on the list one by one, since the problems, while
    widespread, are sporadic and don't affect all nodes at the same time.
    So I finally got through (using AKOCOA - which crashed soon after, so I
    don't know if that will work for you now) and found that my boss's boss
    still hadn't signed the thing, which is why I don't yet have the money
    to pay the bill that I have already gotten.  And I filed the next one.
    
    In between, I traveled to a lot of nodes and got a wide variety of VTX
    error messages from the ones that were actually up, mostly error -3004.
    Ate up lots of time doing so, too.
    
    Anyone else notice that TMS uses two-digit year codes??  I guess no one
    is expecting it to still be around in 3 1/2 years...
    
    /Charlotte
    

Anyone have a clue how to do the following in TMS: ?


I took two trips in one week - one which should be billed to my normal cost 
center and approved by my manager, and the other which needs to be approved 
and paid for by another cost center and it's manager. 

Prior to TMS, I'd just create two expense reports with different cost 
centers and send them to the appropriate managers for approval, but I don't 
see any way in TMS to do this.

Arlan

    Hmmm...
    
    In the US, last year, we looked in to this and found that you are
    permited to file expenses only to your own CC and only your CC mgrs can
    sign.
    
    Expenses submitted under a different CC than my badge registration were
    categorically rejected, no discussion.
    
    Another CC can provide your manager & CC via JV, which worked out fine.
    
    FJP

>    In the US, last year, we looked in to this and found that you are
>    permited to file expenses only to your own CC and only your CC mgrs can
>    sign.
>    
>    Expenses submitted under a different CC than my badge registration were
>    categorically rejected, no discussion.


Well - I never had a problem with it last year. I took several trips for 
Sales organizations which were not officially supported by my Sales Support 
group... I simply put their CC on the expense voucher, sent it off to their 
CC manager for approval, and got my money. 

I experimented a little yesterday with TMS. I was able to create two
seperate expense vouchers by changing the date ranges I used in TMS. I used
Mon-Tues for one trip (and was able to change the CC as well as the approver
to the CC to be billed),  and used Wed-Sat for the other trip (to be paid by
my CC). I'll see if it works before I call the TMS folks and get a lot of
explainations/excuses about why I shouldn't do this.... 

In fact, I found the following in the TMS Questions and Answers document:


" How do I charge another cost center for incurred expenses?
     -  If an employee is going to charge a cost center (other than their own) 
        for expenses, they can change the cost center field in TMS at the 
        appropriate field titled "Chrg CC".  Erase the defaulted cost center 
        (backspace) and type in the appropriate cost center. "



Arlan

    After you choose the cost center you have to choose an approver.  It
    must be an approver for the cost center you have chosen.
    
    HTH,
    Nancy :-)

    This may have been addressed since .309 was posted, but rent ANYTHING
    in the NY city area, and you IMMEDIATELY have a $10 surcharge above
    the $32 corporate rate.  This puts you firmly into exceptionland, and
    there isn't a bleeding thing you can do about it.  At least there
    is some slop built into the hotel rates to accomodate for all the
    odd-ball taxes you have to pay in some places.  As has been probably
    pointed out, the exception approval situation has been readdressed
    as well.  It's at least tolerable to use the tool now.
    
    Bob

    Anyone figure out how to modify an existing entry or delete it.  It
    appears that you can't do it and the you have to delete the whole
    voucher and start over???
    
    	Regards,
    
Receipt                  Foreign                                 Receipt   
 Date    Nr Category Nr Cur Cur. Amount    Rate      USD Amount    Total   
    
25-Aug-96 -    TIPS     USD        0.00     1.00000                        
25-Aug-96 - GA GAS      USD       25.01     1.00000       25.01          25.01
    

    There's definitely some way to do it, but not only couldn't I figure it
    out, but our very-knowledgeable group secretary couldn't either, and
    dragged in a real expert secretary from one of the marketing groups. 
    Somehow the extraneous line in my expense report got deleted, but I
    still don't know how.  Try calling the TMA hotline; someone there
    knows.
    
    /Charlotte

No guesses?

          <<< Note 4595.230 by DECCXX::WIBECAN "Get a state on it" >>>

Out of curiosity, any idea what percentage of the company travels on company
business once a year or more?

						Brian

    .339
    
    Has the voucher been submitted?

You have to move the cursor all the way over to the most left hand column,
then hit the 'remove' key...

    re .342 No.  I created a couple of bad entries to see if I could
    delete them.  I thought I remember reading in a previous note of someone
    complaining about this.  I wasn't processing any expenses at that time
    so I didn't pay close attention if a solution was provided.  I tried to
    look for it but at 28.8 300+ entries is a lot and slow.
    
    re .343 My HiNote ULTRA doesn't have that key that I can see.  Is there
    some equivalent key that anyone knows about?
    
    	Regards,
    

    According to the pamphlet Appendix A - TMS Keyboard Map
    
    
    ACTION           NON PC KEYS     COMMON PC KEYS     LAPTOP
    
    Erase line        remove           delete            delete
    
    Erase field       remove           Ctrl F3           Ctrl F3
    
    Erase Character
    Left of Cursor    backspace        Backspace         Backspace
    
    
    good luck!
    
    j

    re .345 Thanks.  I'm gragging down the documents at DEVMKO::TMS$DOCS:
    to see what else I've missed.
    
    
    	Regards,

    
    What gives with TMS NOW?  I submitted Sunday with no problem, and,
    seemingly naturally after a larger expenditure trip, I've gotten:
    
    TMS is currently not available, please retry later
    
    for the past two days when simply trying to login.
    
    Re: .-1, I'd guess that TMS is looking only at the $25 per day
    guideline.
    
    bob

Likewise, TMS is dead in Colorado Springs...At leadt people can't blame
Exchange for this outage...

BobW

    
    Yep, I called the TMS support line and was told they "know there's a
    problem" and that "they're working on it".  That was it.  No estimates
    on when TMS would be available.  There was a similar problem last
    Friday.  It's funny that with other internal software and procedures
    we are inundated with status messages and bulletins of various kinds --
    TMS, as a relatively major piece of internal software is broken for
    days and no messages, no bulletins, no nothing!
    
    Mark

    Did anyone else notice (when it is up and running) that TMS uses
    two-digit year codes?
    
    Maybe that menas that it will be gone in less than three years,
    replaced by something less painful to use?
    
    /Charlotte

    
    I also called them and was told they are experiencing a major
    hardware problem.  They said keep trying!  They have no clue
    when it will be back up.  

    
    Well, it looked like it was back.  You can enter a new expense
    transaction but you can't sign/submit it and you can't look at old
    transactions.  I'll have to take what I can get.  I can, at least,
    enter the stuff from the trip I took last week.  My real complaint here
    isn't that TMS has had this downtime, everything has downtime problems
    sooner or later.  My problem with this is that there has been no
    announcement from the TMS powers-that-be that there even IS a problem!
    Do they think that if they don't publicly acknowledge the problem that
    we won't notice?
    
    Mark

>My problem with this is that there has been no
>    announcement 

Maybe there was an announcement.  Do you use exchange for your mail?

    
    I have used both TeamLinks and Exchange today to read and send mail.
    If there's been any announcement it doesn't seem to have been sent my
    way.  Has anybody out there received any official notification about this?  

    Can't resist :-) 
    
    If 'they' did send an exchange message to the planet, regarding TMS, how 
    long would it take to get delivered?
    
    and...since we used the name "Exchange" long ago, for a piece of
    software that could read and write "virtual disks", ie: VAX console
    media and the like, shouldn't microsoft be paying homage to us?
    
    .mike.

    
    
    With an unsurprising lack of fanfare, TMS appears to be back to its old
    self today.  In other news...
    
    

TMS appears to have been restored from a backup.  I changed my password last 
week.  The new password now does not work.  I finally remembered my old password 
and it does.  Also, my transactions from last week are missing from the history.

    Hi,
    
      I participate with several other groups in the support of tms.  The
    problems the last few days were not related to databases and no
    restores were done.  The password information is not stored in the
    same database as your transactional data.  
    
      Key to our problem this past week was getting the information from
    the transactional databases to queue properly to the approver database.
    When this type of problem occurs there is rarely data lost, however,
    the claims go into a pending state making them inaccessable to you.
    This elicits a huge number of calls to the helpdesks, hence the 
    decision to make the application unavailable until the problem could
    be resolved.
    
      For my part in not being able to get the problem resolved more
    quickly, I apologize.  I would also like to express my sympathy for
    the individuals who took your calls on the helpdesks, from which I
    am mercifully sheltered.  Unfortunately, like many software problems,
    it is extremely difficult to estimate how long the application will
    be down, until the problem is diagnosed.  In this case, the last parts
    of the solution were put together this morning, and TMS began to 
    slowly come back to life.
    
      There are still components of TMS that are not working completely
    and these problems are being addressed.  Once again I apologize to
    all of you for the inconvenience.
    
    ken
    
    
     

    
    Re .431
    
      Apologies and the further annoyance of belabored helpdesk workers
    could be avoided by issuing timely status messages.  When one of the
    central mechanisms in the company becomes inert with no indication
    of whether anybody even knows about it, you can just about count on a
    lot of frenzied helpdesk calls.  An acknowledgement of the problem, with
    occasional updates to let the "customers" of TMS know they haven't just
    been hung out to dry, takes very little time.  Exact predictions of the
    length of these problems is NOT what I'm asking.  There STILL has not been
    any official acknowledgement of the TMS outage.  There STILL is no 
    indication whether future problems will be accompanied by the same
    official silence.  I really do appreciate Ken's efforts to inform us of
    the current TMS status.  What if Ken is on vacation the next time
    there's a problem?
    
    Mark

    The idea of a status message is very good.  There is a little more
    complexity in an environment where the application is distributed
    to the degree of TMS though.  To make this work, the application would
    have to distribute the message to the client clusters.  There is a bit
    of a chicken and egg problem with this, however, since if the
    application is down, distribution of the message might also fail.  
    
    This idea has been presented before, and given the present experience
    might be considered more valuable now.  
    
    ken
    

        Given that TMS "knows" the e-mail address of all users, this
    information could be used to send mail directly to all users. In the
    case of a system outage, a backup copy of the user profiles on another
    node could serve the same function.

    I realize this is a LOT of mail, but it's probably less traffic than
    everyone trying to log in twice a day, to say nothing of the help desk
    calls.

    \dave

    
    Re .433
    
    I don't think that the large scale distributed nature of TMS precludes 
    sending problem update messages to the "customers".  I had no problems
    sending or receiving any email messages anywhere in the company through
    the local mail cluster during the TMS outage.  The point being that there 
    could be an effort made to do this.  Deciding against sending these 
    messages as a policy because of some vague possibility of failure does 
    not exactly portray a service-oriented mindset on the part of the decision 
    makers for this application.  Perhaps the opinions of their "customers"
    don't matter to them.  Maybe the people using TMS to enter expenses are 
    not even perceived as customers at all and are not regarded as worth
    this type of consideration.
    
    Mark

    Re: .433 and .435:
    
    Funny, isn't it. We TMS users get the mushroom treatment (Keep 'em in
    the dark and feed 'em fertilizer), but Digital sure expects us to pay
    that company credit card bill on time. 
    
    

I keep getting a dialog box when I print saying there is an error on my
locally attached ln03.  I get two messages per page, I keep clicking 'ok'
and the print job completes normally.  Any way to get rid of the messages?

Brad.

RE: .436

	It still bothers me that I have to lend a $14billion a year
	company a loan every time I travel.

							mike

Tried TMS this morning. Application's down. Called the "hotline".

Is there a problem with TMS this morning?

"Yeah, we've already called the TMS system manager and he's responded to the 
page."

Any idea when the system  be back up?

"No but we've already called the TMS system manager and will tell him there's 
trouble from your node."

And we depend on this pup...

tim m.

    Some of the western cluster channel through CXOSS1.
    This cluster had a hungup network connection to FSLPRD and Dascomb
    Road.  I expect this was left over from the network upgrade at DAS
    Sunday.
    
    ken

I don't know what the whining is about, TMS could be like Omega, where 
they tell you the status, but it's never right.

    Still having problems today.
    
    Monday I put in expenses for last week, two one for car 9th-15th and
    travel 9th-14th.
    
    When I try to look at my expenses the only thing that comes up when I
    put the 9th in is my car expenses and TMS won't let me change the
    second date to look for my other expenses.
    
    So I called the TMS help desk, pushed 2 for assistance and the phone
    rolled to someone in Atlanta who didn't know why the TMS helped desk
    was forwarding calls.
    
    On her suggestion I called back, pushed 1. Rings, recording please
    hold, rings, recording please hold, rings, recording please hold, rings
    line goes dead. Twice.
    
    

I'm not sure what you did, but you can have only
one expense report per start date.  The start date
is the key to access the reports.  So I suspect that
you have lost the other expense report.

BC

    Not knowing where else to post this question...will the perpetually
    broken PRINT function in TMS *ever* be fixed?  Specifically, formatting
    is screwed-up when printing to a local printer via Keaterm access to
    TMS.  The formfeeds seem to get trashed in some way.  Often the first
    file is printed OK.  Subsequent files are trashed.  My printer is a
    DEClaser 3500 attached to my PC (not a network printer).

    Mailing the files to myself via Exchange doesn't preserve the
    formatting unless I manually edit the Exchange message.

    I *can* print the report to a file on the site-server, map a share from
    my PC to that server using Explorer, open the file via Notepad, and
    then print it from there...which sort'of preserves the formfeeds and
    formatting...what a pain that it though.

    I've complained to the TMS hotline people who seemingly have heard this
    complaint since the TMS beginning.  They can't answer.  Perhaps there
    is some other workaround.

    --Steve
                                                            

    I believe there is a tip from Ken Moreau earlier in this string on
    printing.  If you can reset your printer to act like a PCL printer, and
    select a PCL print driver (like a Laserjet 2P) then you will have
    better luck printing from TMS. Even then you will need to carefully
    time how quickly you select print or else the output will be
    misaligned.
    
    Regards,
    David.
    

    Printing works well for me using KEAterm and a DEClaser 1152.
    IF I remember to check the Emulate ansi box.
    
    Roberta

    
    I have no trouble printing either, to an HP Deskjet 820Cse via KEA!.
    Well, almost no trouble -- I always get an extra page, blank except
    for "page 3".  It doesn't waste paper however, because all of my TMS
    reports are printed on the back of old error printouts.
    
    Bill

    Bill
    
    I have an 820 also.  The HP web page says that they do not intend to do
    any updates to the printer drivers, in other words, no NT support, we
    are stuck with Win95,96,97 etc.  Have you heard about this?
    
    Larry
    

    Thank you for all the tips...but, I tried them all months ago, and
    again.  The printer (and its driver) is fine, in fact, great, for all
    other print applications.  It's not my desire to change the
    characteristics to satisfy TMS while breaking other apps.
    
    --Steve

Why do you need hardcopy? When I would use TMS, I would just print to the
screen, and cut/paste it into an email message to myself so that I had some sort
of record - in fact I stopped doing even that.

When I would send in receipts, I would just take a peice of paper, put
my name, badge and TMS number on it so it would show thru the window, and send
it in.  If the downstream processing people need a a hardcopy of the report (not
likely), they can print it out themselves.

fwiw,
--Scott

    My vision is that all those envelopes you send to employee
    disbursements go straight to some large warehouse like that in Indiana
    Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.  I would think that nobody opens
    them (unless you checked the box on the front saying that there is
    check included), but they are filed away (hopefully in off-site in some
    fire-storage facility) in case we get audited and need to produce the
    records.   Having the hardcopy record in the envelope means that even
    in the event of a disaster that destroys the TMS database (and its
    backups), we could still produce the records for the IRS.
    
    				-John
    
    

    Make sure you aren't running any version of KEA which is newer than
    4.10. I had to downgrade to 4.10 since the newer versions kept giving
    postscript errors on the printer.
    
    Debbie
    

    Actually.... I am using KEA 4.23 and it works.
    I did have to change fonts on several applications
    after the upgrade though.
    

    
    re: .448
    
   > I have an 820 also.  The HP web page says that they do not intend to do
   > any updates to the printer drivers, in other words, no NT support, we
   > are stuck with Win95,96,97 etc.  Have you heard about this?
    
    No, I was completely unaware.  It says the 820Cse was designed to work
    only on Windows 3.1 and 95, but I have no plans to move to NT on my
    home pc anyway.  Thanks for the tip, but I would imagine that the
    replacement for TMS would run on Windows 95,97,etc.  Wait -- make that
    _if_ there is a replacement...
    
    Bill
    

    
    Subject:       New option in TMS will eliminate alot of TMS printing
    issues
    
    TMS has a new option available. Instead of printing their
    expense vouchers to a network printer, customers should now be able to
    mail the voucher to themselves and print them from their mail
    account. 
    
    They simple have to select the expense claim that they would
    like to print/mail to their account. 
           ***Use arrows to navigate and <RETURN> to select icon option***
               Arrow to and select the icon option for print <return>
               Using the up arrow select mail <return>
           *** TMS will list the mailing address that you have set up in
    your profile***
              <Return> to use default address shown or enter a new
    address  
                TMS will display OK  <return>             
    *** This will mail a copy of the voucher to the customer
    mail account and everyone knows how to print their mail***
    
    
           This new option should be installed on all TMS system, 
     we are checking to see if there are any exceptions.
    
    

    A memo went out the other day about fixing this problem.  Supposedly if
    you add a line "$ SET TERMINAL/FORM"  to your LOGIN.COM, this will fix
    the problem of the formfeeds.  If you are using a TMS_USER or other
    special account, obviously you can't do this, so you will need to pass
    the information on to whoever supports the system.  
    
    Ben

    Setting "set terminal/form" made no difference what-so-ever to my
    Keaterm accessed session.  When I hit the PRINT (to attached printer),
    the FF are still wrong.

    My new workaround is to mail the report to myself, await its arrival,
    download it across my 26.6K dial-up link, select the mail in exchange,
    select all [text], change the font to "Courier New", size 10, stretch
    the mail window (so it wraps properly), and then print it from there.

    It's a workaround.  Should I have to?  I think I shouldn't.  Is it
    efficient?  No.  Does it waste precious time?  Yes.  Does it matter?
    Probably not.  

    So how do you set tms up to mail to exchange? or have I missed that 
    information?
    			Ken

I have come to the conclusion that success in TMS printing is directly related
to the rev of KEAterm you are running, how good the printer driver is.  When I 
was running KEAterm 4.20, and a LN03, nothing but problems.  Keaterm 4.22 and
an HP 6P laser printer, works like a charm...

    To set up mail in TMS, there are three steps:
    
    1) the version of TMS on your site has to be capable -- I'm told that
    version has not been proliferated to all sites.
    
    2) modify your profile.  You'll see a MAIL address entry.  It might now
    contain an entry for A1 or VMSmail.  Change it to your exchange mail
    address.
    
    BTW.  If you want to see TMS crash and burn, then just use:
    
    	[email protected] 
    
    in the profile entry.  I've told people I can make TMS crash at will. 
    This is one way.
    
    Your actual entry must be a VMSmail-to-internet format.  That would be
    something like this:
    
    	nm%US2RMC::"[email protected]"
    
    Perhaps there is a more efficient routing scheme???
    
    3) On the EXPENSE form, select PRINT.  Then hit "FIND" ("HOME" on a
    PC) and you'll see the "MAIL" option.
    
    --Steve
     

I think the best way to fix the problem is to just shove the printouts 
as they come from TMS into the envelopes as best you can.  Hopefully the 
people who receive them are closer to the people responsible for TMS and 
the developers, who don't really seem to care much about the users 
anyway.  Let them fix the problem.

bruce

    As to the SET TERM/FORM not working, I was just repeating what I was
    told.  I don't use TMS myself.
    
    Keaterm needs to be setup properly for printing to work.  In addition,
    the most recent version prints microscopic text for most people.  I
    don't have the details, but you need to have port printing directed to
    a printer that works, and I think there are two places to specify it. 
    I don't think it has to be a printer plugged into your PC; it can be on
    the network.
    
>    BTW.  If you want to see TMS crash and burn, then just use:
>    
>    	[email protected] 
    
    This syntax should only work on VMS V6.2 or higher with UCX installed
    and SMTP configured.  There was a push in CCS about six months ago to
    get SMTP running on all VMS machines, but most timesharing machines are
    still running earlier versions of VMS.  You might try:
    
    SMTP%"[email protected]"
    
    That is the preferred method these days, but does require that SMTP be
    configured on the VMS system.  
    
    The TMS system that I support has every print queue in TAY set
    up on it so people can print from TMS directly.  I would be that most
    system managers would set up individual printers if they were asked.
    
    Ben

Wanting to put a "homeline" expense in a separate claim (like in the
paper system rules we had) I discovered that you can only do one
claim on any one day.

Since it was late evening, I tried to use tomorrow's date (since I would not
print it out till then anyway) and it refused a forward date.

Out of interest I tried 1-jan-00 and it was quite happy with that.

Hence get all your 1999 expenses done by Dec 31st because the next
day it's likely to refuse them as "in the future" (assuming it works
at all and doesn't add 1900 to the two digit field).

And nobody is going to be travelling over that period of course.

Peter

From:	MRMTS::MRMTS::MRGATE::"SALES::A1::TMS" 17-APR-1997 17:43:40.38
To:	@Distribution_List
CC:	
Subj:	Important Travel Management System (TMS) Message                       1

From:	NAME: TMS                           
	FUNC: Travel Management System         <TMS@A1@SALES@PKO>
To:     See Below

  Due to a system upgrade (SEPS), the Travel Management System (TMS) will 
  not be available on Saturday 4/19 and Sunday 4/20.  Please plan 
  accordingly.

  Also, effective the end of April, we will begin to purge the TMS 
  database of older transactions and only retain online those 
  expenses/advances processed within the last six months.  Please be sure 
  you have copies of any TMS transactions that you may require for your 
  records.  

  Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact the hotline 
  at DTN 264-8000, outside (603) 884-8000.

  Employee Disbursements

  Distribution:  This message was delivered to you utilizing the Reader's 
  Choice delivery services.  If you have questions regarding this message, 
  please contact the above reference.
  
  
  

To Distribution List:

    I don't see a mail option anywhere.  My profile is set to print to
    "FILE".  I'm in home office and have been forwarding files to my e-mail
    account for printing.
    
    How do I get TMS to show me this mail option?
    
    

What I did was tab over to Print, press return, and it gave me the option.

			Steve

    What server do you use?
    
    Do you access it from a captive account on a SITE server that I could
    try?

I use ZEKE - TMS_USER.

		Steve

    OK, I get the mail option when I use ZEKE.  Does ZEKE have an IP
    address?  Doesn't show one in VTX EASYNET
    
    I used my default address MTS$::"COP::FRANK PRUSS"
    
    Haven't received any mail yet.

DELNI can do it too (delni.lkg.dec.com).

Has anyone heard if the previously-reported bug in TMS regarding fleet car
reporting has been fixed yet?  TMS wouldn't report any activity to Gelco if
you had a Zero Dollar amount for a given week.  I had 7 missing reports due
Gelco last fall, all because TMS didn't send them any info for those weeks.

The workaround was to report **something** for the week, like a $1 wash or
such.  Anything to make it non-zero...

Tired of trying to second-guess this crap system -

	Al

    How are we to access TMS without a VMS account?  I never received any
    notice or instructions.
    
    thanks.

You could do it through TELNET if the TMS host was accessible that way.  But
you'd also need a VT2xx terminal emulator.

				Steve

    I just received a CCS advisory notice saying that TMS will soon have a
    web interface.  No url was given.
    
    /Chris/

    Trying to putting in an expense report and TMS hangs up tryihng to
    create a record.  I've tried a few times, and it just sits "Working..."
    
    Browsing old records is just fine?
    

    Greetings Frank,
    
    If its any consolation I get the same reaction. I'm going to
    call tms support today to see what the problem is.
    
    Fred

    
    Re: mail option.  
      There are two versions of the tms client installed in the US. 
    Further installation was frozen to add functionality more gratiously
    handle the response to invalid mail addresses.
      At the present time about 60% of the tms clients have the mail
    option.
    
    Re:  No VMS accounts.
    
      TMS is a VMS application.  However, if you have no VMS account and
    can get to a TMS_USER account on a VMS cluster with TMS installed, you 
    do not have to be on a VMS machine.  I would comment that some terminal
    emulation packages do not fully emulate a VT terminal and invoke the
    wrath of DECFORMS.
    
    ken
      
    

    "... the wrath of DECFORMS."
    
    Kyrie Eleison!
    
    NB I have been using the arbitrary TMS Client that supports mail. 
    Amazing what a difference a small change can make!
    
    Maybe there is something to this Client/Server hype after all! (;-)
    

    
 .477>   Further installation was frozen to add functionality more gratiously
 .477>   handle the response to invalid mail addresses.
    
    IMHO it is better to have a client that has a mail function without 
    gracious error handling than no mail at all. Yeah I realize that is
    easy for me to say, not having to deal with the hotline calls, but I
    suspect that the 'how to print' alternative generates at least as many.
    
    More over, they recently announced to start purging older records.
    Those of us who'd like to keep a longer record will just about _have_
    to get access to a mail function to be able to stash away a private copy.
    [Yeah, I know I can break into the TMS_USER account, save to a local file
    there and copy it out to my box, but that is not very gracefull is it?]
    
    Mind you, I find this 6-month purging an other example of Digital's poor
    management. For the inability to justify a few measily diskblocks in a 
    central location they will now spread the time and materials effort 
    throughout the company. Surely fully formatted expense claims in a user 
    account takes up more space and are less useable than raw database entries.
    
    .477>  the wrath of DECFORMS.
    
    It would seem that TMS'es function key choices combined with crummy 
    terminal emulators (notably the freebie windows terminal and telnet)
    carry the blame. Those key choices were right 10 years about as they
    were conformant to the then reigning ALL-IN-1. As things like F8 and
    F10 and even 'find' are now causing a headache, other assignments 
    should have been chosen a while ago. Best I recall, DECforms makes 
    it really easy to change to alternatives. Neither front end client
    nor back-end application code need ever know, just some definitions?!
    
    Oh well,
    		Hein.

    Hein,
    
      I agree with you completely on the relative ease of adding alternate
    functional keys in DECFORMS.   It has been suggested before.  It is 
    hard to find an intuitively obvious set of functional keys which span
    the keyboards found on terminals, pc's and laptops though.  This 
    problem is compounded by the key mappings found in various terminal
    emulaters as well.
    
    Ken
    
    

for "an intuitively obvious set of function keys," how about ^S for save and 
^X for quit. That should work from almost any emulator.

\dave

Dave,

next time you are on a VT terminal, type ^S and see how long it takes
for TMS to respond   ;-)  ;-)

mb

Well, then, use ^Q for quit!

    
    
    Ah..
      an old duffer like me has arthritis in those ^Q, ^S fingers...
    ken
    

    Is there a list of systems that we can telnet or set host to for the
    TMS application?
    
       Regards,
    

    There's a list in the TMS documentation.
    
    			Steve

    Thanks.  I was missing that page.  I got it from a fellow employee.
    
    	Regards,