Conference 7.286::digital

    I saw the same message earlier today.  I have two questions:
    
    1. What happens if you cannot find one of the 90,000 stations that
    accepts the card?  I realize that may be a  stretch if, in fact, they
    have 90,000 signed up, but you could find yourself in some backwater
    town some day.
    
    2.  It says that we are still responsible for the Personal Use Charges. 
    I am hoping that the personal use charges are reduced then, since those
    charges are taken out after adding up your fuel charges, etc, reducing
    the overall sting (e.g. you purchase $20 of gas, have tolls of $3, and
    miscellaneous charges of $5, totaling $28.  Now subtract out an average
    car cost to individuals of $30 for a Taurus, and you owe $2 which goes
    on the front of your expense statement.)  Under the new plan, do I owe
    $30 on the front of my expense statement, or am I missing something?
    
    Chuck 

    
     Wow! We still have company cars?
    
     I thought we got rid of 'em all.................
    
    -Mike Z.

    re .2
    
    I think you will owe the $30.  This will be offset because you will not
    be paying for any of your gas.
    
    Thats how I read it???
    
    Nothing on VTX fleet_us on this plan today?
    
    lisa

1) The usage charge would remain the same.  Why wouldn't it?  You will 
simply be giving your money to Digital instead of a gas station.

2) The 90,000 stations are a big concern to me.  I drive a three-state 
area (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky).  There are long stretches on I-70, I-75, 
I-71, I-74, and I-65 where stations are far and few between.  Hopefully, 
truck stops are setup for this. 

A lot of these stations are mom & pop joints, not corporate stations.  
It seems unlikely that they would be signed up for such service.

3) I have to go inside, punch in my milage and PIN???!!!???  Come on.  
All I have to do now is put my check card into the pump, fill it up, 
grab my receipt and leave.  I'm now forced to wait in line with this 
card.  What if it's after 10PM.  A lot of stations close the doors at 
that time and do business through bullet-resistant glass.

4) Will we get a book listing all 90,000 stations?  Do I get free 
roadmaps of all the cities in my three-state area so I can find them?  
Will GE pay the tow as I run out of gas trying to find one?  Hopefully, 
he package next week will answer these questions with reasonable 
answers.

    This does not sound like it is going to make my life any easier.
    It does sound like it is going to save Digital a couple of bucks
    and someone a hero.  I would love to know whether the people
    who gave birth to this idea drive 5 days a week for this company.
    
    I guess we'll get more answers later, but I have in 9 years *never*
    seen a Fleet-related announcement end up making things more efficient
    or a better deal for the people in the field.
    
    Was something broken here, that we needed to fix it?
    

  I don't drive a company car, but like the other replies, I smell trouble.
  No, you won't run out of gas while looking for one of the 90,000 stations
that accept this card. If you get into a bind, you will buy gas out of your 
own pocket and then try to get reimbursed for it. Or if it turns out to be too 
much trouble to get reimbursed, you will eat the cost. It would become one more
of the several business expenses that Digital used to cover but we now pay 
partly or entirely out of pocket.
  I am also concerned about having to enter the PIN and the other thing (DEC
company code?) on the card reader. Does this mean that we are supposed to go
behind the counter at the gas station office to enter this info? If so, I
expect that a lot of clerks won't let us do so. Or is it part of the deal be-
tween the gas station and card vendor that they must install keypads within
easy reach of the customer?

    re: .1
    
    Now I'm making replies to my own reply.  Sorry for taking up space with
    the assinine comment around Personal Use charges from .1.  As others pointed
    out, you either owe it to Digital or you pay the gasoline companies. 
    I've been busy mentally today - what sounded very logical at the time
    is now exposed for the misstep it was.
    
    I'm still concerned though, as others are, about the 90,000 stations. 
    Probably an inflated figure to help sell the program to Digital, and in
    turn to ourselves.  Since most of the Mobil stations in NY State are
    fully automated (swipe your card, fill up, pull off the receipt, drive
    away) I also cannot see how this will be advantageous for us, the
    drivers.  If it saves the company $ I can understand doing it, but a
    $15 bill from yours truly, whether through a company credit card or
    this arrangement, is still a $15 charge.  Maybe Digital will receive
    some sort of rebate for utilizing this system - they better get
    something for inconveniencing everyone.
    
    Chuck
                         

And how many copies of this "fueling card" do we get ?? My wife is 
sometimes driving the company car when it's time for a fill-up, she'll need 
the card, pin, list of stations too --- this whole thing looks like a major 
pain to me....

Arlan

    re: .7
    
    > I also cannot see how this will be advantageous for us, the
    > drivers.  
    
    This isn't supposed to be advantageous or even painless for the
    employees/drivers - this is strictly for the company. I'm not on 
    the company car plan and most likely never will be, but this seems to
    be right up there with the education expenses reimbursement.

Re: Paying cash, get receipt, get reimbursed

>This is a fuel card only.  All other expenses (i.e., tolls, car washes) 
>should be submitted as normal.  After May 1, 1996 fuel expenses will  
>not be processed on your weekly expense reports. All maintenance should 
>be process through the GE Maintenance Management Center.  All accident 
>expenses should be process through Consolidated Services 
>Corporatation.

    I fail to see how this saves Digital money, unless Digital is getting
    some sort of rebate or volume discount from the oil companies based on
    the data.  (and how do Wright & GE make money on this?  Does it cost
    extra?)  It's too bad they didn't see fit to share their reasoning
    with us.
    
    On the positive side, it'll cut down on my hassles with paying multiple
    gas credit card bills - assuming I can find the gas stations easily
    along the 140+ miles I drive most days (I haven't noticed a keypad
    anywhere).  As for my wife needing it, the card will have to be kept in
    the car - needing a PIN should make it unusable by thieves.
    
    I can only assume it lets them keep closer track of mileage and fuel
    expense without waiting for all those expense reports to trickle in. 
    In any event, if I forget to check the odometer before I go in, I'm
    going to guesstimate it rather than trek back out to my car.  So much
    for accuracy.  
    
    Maybe they should use one of those chips from the Marathon instead,
    securely fastened to a tire.  We'd submit them with our weekly
    vouchers. 8^} 
                   

    I still don't understand how this is going to save the CO. money. I
    think what it will do is provide better reporting on a mileage/date
    basis. This whole thing feels like another way to make the "A" plan
    even more unattractive, forcing the last few participants out.

>    I still don't understand how this is going to save the CO. money. I
>    think what it will do is provide better reporting on a mileage/date

Simple. The company will now have four important pieces of information in 
one place for easy analysis: your badge, your mileage, the amount of fuel 
you purchase, and the total cost of that fuel. With that information, they 
can easily determine exactly how much you're paying for a gallon of gas and 
how fuel efficient your car is. 

Now, why would the company give a damn? Again, simple. They can now compare 
what you're paying for a gallon of gas to what others in your area are 
paying. I'm a cheap SOB; I pump my own gas and I use unleaded regular. I 
can't tell you how many times I've been a passanger in somebody else's 
DECmobile when it was time for gas. Often, that person would pull right up 
to the full service pump and ask 'em to "Fill 'er up with premium". Out 
here (Denver) the cost for full service premium is about $.35 per gallon 
higher than it is for self serve unleaded. That works out to an additional
$5.25 on a typical 15 gallon purchase or $273 per year if you only purchase 
one tank of gas per week. Multiply that by the number of folks who really 
don't care how much gas costs ("Shoot, I don't care - DEC pays for it...) 
and you're looking at a potentially large savings. I'd also bet that those 
who are overspending on a gallon of gas will start to hear about it.

What appears to be happening is that everybody is now going to be a bit 
more inconvenienced due to the actions of a few. I don't see this as being 
a bit different than being forced to turn in a receipt for every $2.50
lunch at Burger King when I'm on business travel. 

But keep in mind that unlike most of the rules laid down here, you DO have 
a choice on this one. Simply go to your CC manager, hand in your keys and 
tell him/her that this new rule is so onerous you've decided to move 
to plan B or plan C. Since you have the choice, I can't understand why 
you'd whine about a new rule such as this one. Let's hear those keys 
hitting those desks. Walk away from plan A. Walk away from that car that 
costs you $30/week (and don't forget that $30 cover fuel, maintenance, and 
insurance). Trust me, there are a LOT of folks out there who'd be more than 
happy to suffer the indignity of having their fuel direct billed for a shot 
at the plan A car you turn in.

tim m.

    
    
    Slight problem with the program logic here:
    
    > ELECTRONIC FUEL CARD FUELING PROCESS:
    >
    > -   Locate a participating fueling station (participating vendors
    >     will be provided with your Electronic Fuel Card)
    > -   Fuel up and present card to cashier
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Stepping through the new fuel program through the debugger, I think the 
    above step is a problem. Actual program listing follows:
    
    
    ELECTRONIC FUEL CARD FUELING PROCESS:
    
    - Present card to cashier, since you are required to PAY FIRST before
      fueling
    - Receive puzzled look from cashier
    - Explain to cashier that it's the new Digital Fueling Plan
    - Receive card back from cashier, along with suggestion as to where to
      insert it
    - Call GE Capital and try to explain the problem to them
    - Receive suggestion to go pound sand
    - goto ELECTRONIC FUEL CARD FUELING PROCESS:
    
    %^)
    
    Seriously, though, the program makes several assumptions that concern
    me:
    
    - That you are allowed to pump gas first, before paying
    
    - That the cashier understands the plan, and cooperates
    
    - That the card reading/verification goes smoothly
    
    - That it's not raining %^)
    
    How real-world is this? Has it been tested anywhere, as a pilot?
    It would be helpful if we had a fallback, allowing us to buy and expense 
    gas the old way on those inevitable occasions when the plan doesn't work. 
    E.g., you buy gas with your credit card from the same gas station, and 
    note on the receipt the reason that the fuel card wasn't used (e.g. 
    "attendant refused the fuel card", or "unable to read fuel card", 
    "unable to verify card", "pin not working", "card lost", etc., etc.).
    
    Here's another scenario: You're due at a customer meeting in Timbuktu
    this afternoon. You look at your trusty list of participating gas
    stations, and Voila, there's a Tom's Timbuktu General Store & Gas, 123
    Offbeaten Path, Timbuktu. "Terrific", you think. "I'll gas up after the
    meeting, and cruise home". After the  "1 hour" meeting, which ends up 
    running until about 8:45 pm, you swing by Tom's Timbuktu GS&G. The
    following conversation ensues:
    
    You: Hi! I'd like to fill up on pump #4, please. Here's my Digital 
    Fuel Plan Fueling Card.
    
    Tom (adjusts his specs, turns card over repeatedly): Hmm. Is this a
    Visa or Master Card? We only take Visa and Master Card. Card don't
    rightly say whether it's a Visa or Mastercard.
    
    You: No, it's a Digital Fueling Plan card. See, your station is on my
    list here as as one of the 90,000 stations that accept the card.
    
    Tom (adjusts his specs again, looks at the list): Well by golly, you're
    right! (calling to person in back room) Looka here, Martha! This city
    fella here has a list of 90,000 gas stations, and we're on it! Look,
    right here nexta Ted's Fueling Emporium in Boogaloo! You remeber Ted!
    We gassed up the RV at his station 'coupla years ago, when we went on
    that vacation.
    
    You: So you do take the card?
    
    Tom: Sure, long as it's a Mastercard or Visa.
    
    You (sighing, fishing in your wallet, where you find six dollars 
    (it's Wednesday)): Here, Tom. I'll take $5 on pump #4, please.
    

    
    ****  WARNING, LONG NOTE  *****
    
    I've just read heaps of replies about this new plan.  Many of them
    relating to "where's the benefit for the company/me" and "is this a
    workable plan?".  
    
    Now, don't get me wrong, I haven't been on the US Car Plan (I assume
    that is what the discussion is about) since 1987, when I came to
    Australia.        
    
    In those days, we had to claim for reimbursement for fuel purchases. 
    These were (often) slow in coming.  In addition, I can guarantee, I
    lost some receipts along the way.  Now, in Australia, we use a similar
    card system (Fleet Card) for our fuel.  I've only had to buy fuel twice
    in the 8 and a half years I've been here.  Each time I was reimbursed
    after convincing my manager that it WAS necessary (5 minute
    conversation at most).
    
    Benefit for me - I present my card and forget about it.
    
    Benefit for the company - 1)  as mentioned, centralised record keeping
    of vehicle's fuel economy.  (Here, the card has the vehicle's license
    number right on it.  This prevents folks from filling the family wagon
    on Uncle DEC.)  2) centralised billing.  Instead of processing all
    those expense voucher lines, Digital simply pays the card vendor. 
    Seriously, read this as MEGABUCKS savings.
    
    Is this an attempt to make life harder for DECies on Plan A?  I doubt
    it.  As I mentioned above, I reckon you'll find it less inconvient then
    the current arrangement.
    
    Is this a workable plan?  Will the attendant know what's going on? 
    Will I have to explain to him/her about the Digital Fuel Purchasing
    Plan?  Will they look at me like I'm from Australia when I present the
    card?
    
    Do you think this whole thing was organised just for Digital?  If there
    are (roughly) 90,000 participating "outlets", you can bet your sweet
    bippiy they'll know about it, and it'll work.  You won't have to go
    into the back office (where your not allowed to be) in order to enter
    your secret code.  We're talking about a retail program with 90,000
    street smart retailers participating.  Believe me, retailer
    entrepreneures know how to look after customers.
    
    As I mentioned, we have a similar program in Australia.  Fuel retailers
    who participate in the FleetCard program indicate this on the sign
    listing the major credit cards they accept.  Until you look for it, you
    won't notice it.
    
    If you're on the road and don't see the card on the sign, you simply
    ask "Do you take FleetCard?"  If not, most attendants realise you need
    to use that instead of cash, and will tell you how to get to the
    closest station that does.
    
    My guess is that this started with the trucking industry.  It also
    started with the major fuel companies (Shell, Mobil, etc).  Finally,
    any Mom/Pop shop that is in the middle of nowhere will also participate
    simply in order to stay alive.
    
    Sorry for the long note.  I just have to do this from time to time when
    I see, what appears to me, to be people looking for reasons to complain. 
    Sure, the new system will be different.  Sure, it will cause some
    changes to the way you do things now.  But, just because of that, and
    the fact that the change came from above, don't assume it's an assinine
    idea.  Where I grew up, we use to call that prejudice.
    assume 

    The current system works fine now.  Why change it unless there
    is a SUBSTANTIAL savings to the company?
    
    I pay at the pump with a credit card.  I never go inside.
    
    With the new plan, I HAVE to go inside, wait behind 74 people buying
    lottery tickets, and as said before, deal with cashiers that have NO
    CLUE as to what this card thing is.
    
    I will still reserve final judgement pending arrival of theinfo
    packet, but so far the demo doesn't look promising.
    

Around Atlanta most of the stations that have 'pay
at the pump' will take the fleet cards as well as
VISA, MasterCard and the gas company cards etc.
My favorite BP stations has a list of cards that it
will accept that spans the entire width of the pump
housing. That list includes at least two fleet fueling
cards.

    My delivery area is "Southern California."
    
    That means this year alone I have done work as far south as Orange
    County, and as far northwest as Vandenburg Air Force Base (Lompoc
    California, a good 60 miles north of Santa Barbara, and 180 miles each
    direction for me to drive from my house.
    
    More typical commutes for me are to China Lake (Ridgecrest, CA), which
    is 90 miles north from me, or the Los Angeles International Airport
    area (LAX), which is 70 miles south for me.
    
    Up until this latest company car, I had participated for the last 3
    years with the fleet "Flexible Fuel Vehicle" program.  This program
    also had designated fueling stations, and a card for purchasing the
    Methenol 85 fuel.  The fueling stations were "self serve", and I did
    not have to worry about receipts for those purchases.  It required that
    I enter a pin with the mileage, like the new fueling cards.  The worst
    problem with the methynol was that it dropped the average gas mileage
    on a Taurus down from 28 mpg to 15 mpg.  The worst problem with the
    program was lack of available stations (not Digital's fault).  It was
    only possible for me to purchase methenol on days that I traveled into
    the LAO facility or other clients in the LAX area.  There was one place
    I could fuel up at if going out to the coast north of Los Angeles, and
    one in an area 40 miles south of my home (but that one got destroyed in
    the San Fernando earthquake).  Fortunately, there was no problem
    purchasing fuel at a regular gasoline station, and handling it through
    the expense process.
    
    I have yet to actually see the list of participating stations in the
    Southern California region, but typically decisions made back east
    are made without consideration to the geographies of the west.  Where
    five stations in a county are sufficient in east coast sized counties,
    it would be completely unacceptable in counties the size of Los
    Angeles, Orange, or Kern counties (to name a few).
    
    Another example of this mentality was when the medical plan changed,
    and the Ridgecrest (CKO) employees were informed that their HMO was in
    Bakersfield, which was over 100 miles to drive into, and inaccessable
    certain times of the year without driving 170 miles.  The reasoning was
    that both cities were in Kern County.
    
    Does anyone know if the list of stations is available online?
    
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lawrence Fisher                      Realtime Software Consultant
[email protected]           Digital Equipment Corporation
                                     Southern California
   -- From the desert to the sea, helping meet Digital's Realtime needs --
*   This message reflects my own views/opinions, not those of my company    *
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    

My husband has this with his fleet car from his company.  

He has a card, you use it just like you use a credit card.  If the pump has 
that capability, you use it right there.  If the pump does not have credit 
card capability, then you have to go inside.    The picture of his exact card 
is not listed on the pumps, but it still works.    

Some pumps ask for an ID number, some don't, and 99% ask for mileage.  You get 
used to checking for it before you get out.    He never read any list-books or 
maps, just got the card and went and used it.   

At his company, there is 0 paper work involved in gas.  No receipts, no 
hassels.   When he used to use his credit card, he used to have to collect
receipts, so this made it easier. 

If they take credit cards but not the fleet card (almost never), then he uses 
his co. credit card.   If they don't take either, then pay cash.   

It is possible to have a change that makes it easier for the person and easier 
and cheaper and prevents a ton of fraud for the company.   If this 
implementation is anything like the one we are part of, it should.   

re: benefits to Digital

There are two areas of substantial savings to Digital and they both involve firing people 
(or not having to hire more people to put the positive spin on it).

1) Each week someone at Digital has to process my VES and Expense Voucher.  That means 
handling between 3 and 7 gas receipts (depending on how remote trips I took that week).  
That's potentially 9 pieces of paper each week.  The new system will reduce my paperwork 
to 2 pieces on odd numbered weeks and 3 pieces on even numbered weeks (I wash the van 
every other week per policy).  Reduction in paperwork reduces the number for headcount on 
Digitals part.

2) Digital pays GE Capital for managing our fleet.  Digital sends copies of my VES to GE. 
They manually enter the fuel data into their systems.  Guess what they don't have to do 
anymore?  Another reduction in manpower.  They pass the savings to Digital as reduced 
price for service.

Re: .19

Your husband's plan sounds very nice, and I would love to participate in one like it.  
However, the memo stated:

1) Only selected stations participate.

2) You must go inside.

3) After May 1, 1996 you can't submit gas on your VES.

My Villager turned 1 year old on 6-Apr-96, and 35K miles (92% business miles).  A typical 
business drive for me is 450 miles round-trip in one day (between 4 - 6 of these per 
month).  That usually means leaving my house at 7:30AM and returning home at 9:30PM.  I 
must refuel on the way home.  75% of the trip is on rural roads.  These are the roads 
that worry me the most.

    
    I hope they issue my wife her own card...????
    
    	Now they will have deal with a check every week from me without gas
    I will not be able to cover the $30.00 a week. Someone has to balance
    the books deposit checks etc etc...

The gas stations I use in Nashua all accept a Wrights Express fleet card
at the pump.  I don't see why you have to go inside.

				Steve

    One issue that hasnt been mentioned is cheating.  Those drivers that
    added an extra gas receipt every week or so will suddenly have a
    dramatic increase in their gas mileage.
    
    Bet some bean counters at Gelco are anxiously awaiting the new gas
    data.
    
    I think this will be a benefit to honest driver. less paper work,
    the card reader at the pump will handle the transaction so its no more
    difficult than before. Less data entry and processing along the way.

    Here is some cheese to go with all the whining!!!
    
    People who work for a computer company should have some faith in
    technology. Or is everyone just afraid of change?
    
    I remember all the complaining when we had to go from paper expense
    forms to the electronic forms. If you don't like it go to the other car
    plans.
    
    David
    

    I used to work for Harpur Group (part of Gelco), and the fuel card
    system could save Digital money as they flag exceptions.  It is
    possible to see if someone is filling up with petrol, driving home and
    transfering the fuel to another vehicle and filling up again.  By
    looking at the mileage and fuel purchased.  It is possible to flag many 
    other exceptions too.
    
    Although I'm in the UK, I think it's a good idea.  Usually you can
    request a garage to be added to the card list so that's no problem.
    
    Just my 2p.
    
    Chris
    

>    Here is some cheese to go with all the whining!!!
>    
>    People who work for a computer company should have some faith in
>    technology. Or is everyone just afraid of change?
>    
>    I remember all the complaining when we had to go from paper expense
>    forms to the electronic forms. If you don't like it go to the other car
>    plans.


I'm sorry, but the memo states only negatives to me.  I pay for my gas in cash (via a 
check card) at the pumps.  I can stay dry in wet weather.  I can fuel up and leave 
quickly because I don't have to wait in line.  Now I have:

o to go inside (it explicitly states I must go inside thus implying I can't pay
  at the pump).

o to send a check weekly to Digital thus incurring a cost of writing a check (I seldom
  write a check to Digital now because I burn so much gas for my job).

These are not issues with technology, they are issues of logistics.  

Other questions I'll have when I read my package:

1) What about extended vacation travel?  Do I pay in cash and not record the gas?  Do I  
   use the card and send the cash to Digital?  GE?

2) Does this card work in Canada?

3) What do we do in emergency situations?  I have nearly run out of gas on I-70 because  
   there can be as much as 20 miles between exits in Indiana.  When they decide to shut
   down one side of the expressway and run only one lane each way on the other side can  
   create some problems.  Twice last year I became stuck when an accident shutdown the
   expressway to a crawl.  Can't shut off the engine because it's usually move 10 feet,  
   wait 60 seconds, ...

4) Can my wife use the card?  If yes, then the card will stay in the van instead of
   my wallet.

5) What do I do at stations that transact business through bullet-resistant glass?  Do
   I tell them my PIN when they run the card?

Again, not technical questions. 

>o to go inside (it explicitly states I must go inside thus implying I can't pay
>  at the pump).

That's not the way I read the base note.  I think that's referring to stations
that don't have pay-at-the-pump pumps.

>5) What do I do at stations that transact business through bullet-resistant
>   glass?

Any station that accepts ATM cards must have a way of accepting PINs.
Stations with bullet-proof glass will either have a keypad outside the
glass or won't accept ATM cards of any type.

    
    What I can't understand is the complaint about the $30/wk.
    If you pay for $30 in gas or $30 to fleet, what's the diff?
    BTW, stop at a 7-11 and pick up several $30 money orders, then
    put the cost on your expenses-no checks.
    

    	-.1 
    
    	Who was complaining about $30.00 That has not changed we were
    paying 30.00 before and we will continue to pay it in whatever form
    that is required.
    	The check comment was regarding overhead and paper work not just in
    the field but upstairs. Lets see 4 checks a month at est 30,000
    company car drivers that's 1,440,000 checks that have to be dealt with a
    year. 
    	I would rather they just take the money right out of my paycheck.
    It seems dumb to give it to me and then take it back..

re: .20, .21, .27 


Please try to keep your replies to within 80 columns width so we can read 
them from VT terminals...

Thanks

As long as I can continue to "pay-at-the-pump" at most stations, I don't see 
this as a big deal... however, if it turns out that there are only a handful 
of stations in a large metropolitan area, and I have to drive 40 miles to 
the other side of town to fill up, I can't see how this would be a benefit 
to anyone.  Hopefully, the former statement will turn out to be the real 
situation.

Arlan

    I'm with .27.
    
    Go back and read .0. If they had added:
    
    "Or, if you pay by credit card at the pump, you will be able
    to use this card in the same way..."
    
    I would have immediately thought this was a great idea.  But
    instead there is a list of umpty-ump steps to do and human
    interactions that today I avoid.
    
    I too am all for saving money, and if this is "just like a credit card
    at the pump" then, well, I guess I'll just shut my mouth.
    

    How is paying for gas during vacation going to be handled?  Since we
    are to pay for gas, will we be billed later?
    
    I will be on vacation starting 29 Apr.  I hope card gets here by 26
    Apr.
    
    If anyone hears about how vacations will be handled, I would like to
    know.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kenley

    
    <--- Subtract it on your weekly vehicle expense report just like
         we do now?
    	 
    I welcome this new plan -- one less thing to keep up with.
    
    Bill

    With the effort to implement this plan, as someone mentioned earlier,
    the savings to Digital must be big bucks.  My question is:
    
      "When will we see our $30 weekly payment go down to $20 reflecting
      our part of this big saving in the largest variable expense?"
    
    I also concur with the hastle of writing a check eash week.  If
    corporate can see no way around wanting to get checks, they at least
    ought to make them monthly - like any other bill....
    
    Bob

>      "When will we see our $30 weekly payment go down to $20 reflecting
>      our part of this big saving in the largest variable expense?"
    
You won't.  The $30 ($45 in my case) is to make the IRS happy.  Otherwise they would have 
Digital add $5K-$6K per year (or more depending on who you talk to) to your W2.  $30/wk 
works out to slightly less than 28% of $6K.

    
    If (most of) the 90k participating gas stations allow you to
    "pay @ the pump" with the fleetcard, then my biggest problem 
    with this program is solved. Thanks.
    
    Neal

    >How is paying for gas during vacation going to be handled?  Since we
    >are to pay for gas, will we be billed later?
    
    I assume the way it is now.  If you spend $10 for vacation driving, put
    $10 on the bottom line of the mileage form to add to the $30 weekly
    cost.  It still winds up costing you the same.
    

    re:  .36
    The $30 is not exactly to make the IRS happy.  There is s fixed price
    for the company car and each querter, GE calculates the personal value
    vs. the business value.  If $30 x 13 weeks is greater than the personal
    value calculated, you actually get a credit on your W2,  If is is less,
    then you get income added to your W2.
    
    The "Keep the IRS happy" is nonsense, provided by corporate when they
    decided to start charging more for what used to be a benefit.  $30 per
    week times the number of fleet plan A drivers is is a healthy reduction
    in weekly expenses.
    
    I believe they say that a week without any business miles is like
    $50-$60.  Even in a higher tax bracket, the tax on that is only around
    $20 or so.  It would certainly be less expensive if we only paid the
    tax on the car benefit, instead of the cost of the car.  
    (This assumes the cheap cars - Taurus.)
    
    
    If "operating costs" go down, then the assessment for personal miles
    should go down and our weekly subsidy should go down as well (though
    probably not by $10).
    
    Bob

    Funny reading ...
    
    Here in Belgium, we started using company electronic fuel card back in 1983.
    (That's thirteen years ago !)
    Some years later, the company went to 1 single fuel vendor (Shell) and
    got a significant discount. I remember that at every change, we were 
    complaining, got used to it and finally loved the system.
    
    Nowadays every gas station has its electronic card reader. Some gas
    stations are completely unattended. Gas is available any day, any
    hour...
    
    Take it easy ...
    
    
    
    

    
    My first experience with the "FUEL CARD".
    
    I went into the BP station and was assured by the cashier
    that they participated in the program.  I filled up the
    car with gas and presented my card.
    
    SWIPE....CARD INVALID   oh-oh!
    
    SWIPE....CARD INVALID   snafu!
    
    The nice young lady in a good looking pair of blue jeans
    got out her laminated BP book, thumbed through a few pages
    and picked up the phone.  She punched in a string of numbers,
    punched in some more numbers, asked me for my PIN number
    and punched them in, then she punched in a few more numbers.
    She then produced her trusty-rusty mechanical credit card
    thing-a-ma-jig.  
    
    CHRUNCH....CHRUNCH...please sign here sir.
    
    Some gentleman in the line that had begun to form behind me 
    said "My company used those things a few years ago and they 
    never worked.  The cashier had to call it in every time."
    
    Well, at least it worked.  The bill will not be coming to my
    house.
    
    But as they say....Your mileage may vary!!!!
    

	RE: .41

    >punched in some more numbers, asked me for my PIN number
 			          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >and punched them in, then she punched in a few more numbers.

	and you gave her your PIN???

    From the GE Capital Fleet Services letter on the Electronic Fuel Card:
    
    "After fueling, simply present your card to the cashier.  After the
    cashier "swipes" the card through the point of sale terminal, use the
    numeric key pad to record your current odometer reading and press
    enter, and then your PIN number and press enter.  Some fueling
    locations may require you to verbally give your PIN number, in the
    event the transactions must be done manually."
    
    Sounds like verbal PIN's are a.o.k.
    
    Mav

Well, I received a letter yesterday from GE telling me about my fuel card. 

1) Security

Your PIN # is: nnnnnn

...Your PIN number is assigned, annd should be known, only by you.  For 
maximum security, DO NOT keep your PIN number with your Wright Express 
Card...Some fueling locations may require you to verbally give your PIN 
number...

If it should be known only to me, then why am I verbally telling it to 
anyone?

Our PINs (not PIN numbers; why can't people use accronyms correctly?) are 
our badge numbers.  In the name of security shouldn't I kill the several 
dozen people who know my PIN?


2) Fill up on Tuesday

from the original letter:

     This is a fuel card only.  All other expenses (i.e., tolls, car
     washes)  should be submitted as normal.  After May 1, 1996 fuel
     expenses will  not be processed on your weekly expense reports.
     
I called GE because the one thing missing from the letter was the card.  
Seems Digital authorized GE to mail the cards only this past Monday.  When 
I asked when I would get it, the rep said hopefully sometime next week.  
Apparently, I was not the first caller.  She had all the answers to my 
questions before I asked them.  

She is sorry, but Digital didn't give the OK until last Monday.  She 
understands that we aren't supposed to submit fuel expenses starting May 1.
That has nothing to do with GE, I'll have to take that up with Digital.

I hope we get a memo soon from Digital telling us they've extended the 
expense deadline.  If not, better fill up on Tuesday.

re Note 4551.44 by NQOS01::s_coghill.dyo.dec.com::S_Coghill:

> Our PINs (not PIN numbers; why can't people use accronyms correctly?) are 
> our badge numbers.  

        Before there were acronyms, there was the spoken word.  If
        you speak "our PINs" to another, they will think you are
        talking about sharp objects -- much less confusion would
        result from "PIN numbers"

        Bob

    Yeah, but more redundancy... :-)
    

    
    	RE: .45
    
    	But, you see, in order for someone to use the term "PIN", the
    	acronym had to be created, and it meant "personal ID number".
    	Therefore, the word "number" was already included and is red-
    	undant no matter how it is used.
    

 You mean like "ATM machines"?

    Why can't machines operate over an ATM network?  Oh... never mind...:^)

Or from the 'Nam era:

	The DMZ zone

Not to disturb this string by actually talking about the subject, but...

I got my card today, and attempted to use it.  The guy behind the counter
didn't even blink when I showed him the card, but he then asked me for my
"driver number".  In all the documentation I read, there was no such concept.

After talking to GE Fleet, I discovered that some people call it a PIN, and
some people call it a driver number.  FYI.

-- Ken Moreau

    Used my card today too.  No problems however I no longer have to submit
    fuel bills with my expenses (this is a good thing).

    However, the weekly personal use fee no longer factors into account
    what I spent on the fuel card and adjust accordingly.  Hmmm....this is
    not a good thing.  If I spend say $20.00 per week on gas and am charged
    for the use of my car at $30.00 per week the delta out of pocket is
    $10.00.  Okay, that's fine I'll gladly contribute to the cause, namely
    my personal use of $10 bucks a week.  

    Now, under the new plan I'm in for the whole $30.  Hmmm...$30.00 x 52 
    = $1,560.00 per year on the new plan.  $10.00 x 52 = $520.00 under the 
    old plan.  Net pain in my checking account = $1,040. (I wonder if
    that's a coincidence for the tax folks out there) Gee whiz Willie, 
    you just took a pay cut for the week courtesy of the Fleet department.
    Oh joy, let's shout from the mountain tops how much fun this is
    going to be!!
    
    Mav
    

    Mav

Go back and look at .2,.3,.4, and .7. What's the difference between giving the
gas station $20 a week and Digital $10 a week and giving the gas station $0
a week and Digital $30 a week? It's still $30 a week...

tim m.

Mav,

You will not be spending a penny extra with the new fuel card! Using the
figures from your example, you will be paying $30/week, which is what you
were paying prior to the card ($10/wk to Digital, and $20/wk to the gas
station).  Under the new scheme, you pay $30/wk to Digital and $0/wk to
the gas station.

Ram

    

So, what came with the card?  Did you get a list of 
stations for the U.S. (90K+)?  For your area?  No where?

RE: .-1 -<Details?>-

The "list of stations" that I got consisted of a section on the back of the
card which showed 21 gas company logos in really tiny form.  Almost all of
the usual suspects were there, including Citgo, Conoco, Exxon, Fina, Hess,
Mobil, Shell, Sunoco, Texaco, etc.  When I went to one of these, I then 
looked on the pump for the listing of which cards it took, and there was a
long set of card logos in really tiny form.  Lo and behold, Wright Express
was there.

For me this is working fine, once I got past the PIN/driver_# semantic
problems.  Of course, YMMV.

-- Ken Moreau

    So are they asking or are you putting in your mileage also?

    I used my card this morning also.  It was a Shell station with a
    numeric keypad at the pump.  It prompted me for my odometer reading and
    my Driver ID.
    
    In addition to the symbols on the back of the card, there was the
    following list in the packet.
    
    	APCO			Steuart/AGIP
    	BP (Fall of 1995)	Sunoco
    	Cenex			SuperAmerica
    	Charter			Texaco
    	Circle K		Total
    	Clark			Vickers
    	Conoco			Zippy Mart
    	Crown
    	Delta Express
    	Exxon
    	EZ Serve
    	Fina
    	Getty
    	Majik Market
    	Mapco Express
    	Marathon
    	Minit Mart
    	Mobil
    	QuikTrip
    	Road Runner
    	Sheetz
    	Shell
    

    I found out yesterday that (at least some) gas stations accept the new
    card exactly the same as a credit card - with one exception - they get
    no electronic verification.  No PIN or miles required.  The way the
    transaction was handled I suspect I could have even bought a set of
    tires with the card.  Which brings up my real point.  Several folks
    indicated that they were leaving the cards in the vehicle to insure it
    was with the car when gas was needed.  The GE Capital packet even
    included a small plastic hanger to keep the card on the dash or trun
    signal lever.  This is probabily NOT A GOOD IDEA.  Someone could steal
    the card and rack up tons of bills before anyone ever knew - and with
    no electronic checking, they could keep on going as long as they didn't
    hit the same station more than once.
    
    As far as the process, it works well.  As I said, it's just like using
    a company card or a VISA (actually faster).  I like the fact that
    Digital is fronting the cash to pay for my fuel (about time).  Now, the
    obvious progression is to re-issue the company paid air travel cards
    and change the Digital VISA cards to company paid as well.  If it works
    like they say it does, we ought to at least be consistent in our
    expense policy....
    
    Bob
    

    Does anyone know why some of the gas company names on the included
    information card were in bold face, and others (e.g., Getty) were not? 
    I didn't see any explanation on the card.

    Will we be able to buy a car wash with this caed also. I get my
    Villager washed every 2 weeks at a BP station, and always charge it to
    my BP card with the gas. Will this also work with the Wright card ?
    
    

    None of the stations on the list were in my zip code. Looks like the
    closest applicable station is about six miles from me, as opposed to
    the 1/2 mile I currently use, at six cents a gallon less than the Shell
    station on the list.
    
    They then printed my a receipt out and made me sign it, just like a
    credit card purchase. They told me they the took the card, but couldn't
    communicate any of the mileage or driver number to GE.
    
    Plus my badge number now has a leading zero to remember.
    
    GE did tell me they would put a request in for one of their field reps
    to visit my area and set up some local stations, but also told me the
    process took six to nine months.
    
    Larry

Well - at least for me this turned out to be a no-pain deal (so far). The 
usual list of places I gas up at all accept the card at their pay-at-the-pump
stations - all I do is swipe the card, it prompts for milage and PIN, then I 
fill-er-up.... I do occassionally have to drive to some more "remote" 
locations, but from the list on the card, I should be okay in those too.

I don't mind not having to keep all those gas receipts tucked into the sun 
visor for weeks until I get around to expenses.....

Arlan

    Thanks to Digital I now have more company related cards in my wallet
    than I do personal.  Digital might want to consider consolidating the
    number of cards to reduce cost.
    
        Company Associated          Personal
    
        Gas card                    Discover
        American Express Travel     VISA
        Corp VISA                   grocery card
        medical card                license
        perscription card           calling card
        AVIS express
        USAir card
        calling card
    
    Personally, I need gas receipts to meet the $30 weekly charge limit.
    Therefore, I will be writing a check back to Digital most weeks. It
    must be more expensive for Digital to process paper checks than to
    electronically deposit a refund in my checking account.
    
    Steve

    re.64
    
    Makes quite a case for a "smart card' doesn't it.  Hmmmmmm
    
    Mav

    Tried out the new card today. Usually purchase gas at the local
    discount station at about 3 to 4 cents cheaper thatn what the card
    wants me to buy. Went to the brand new Mobil station on the corner.
    Didn't have any card stickers on the automatic pumps yet, so I went
    inside, showed the card, and she said "sure we take it but you need to
    know a driver number". I said I've got it. Went back outside, swiped
    the card through the pump, it asked me for the odometer reading, my
    driver number, asked me if I wanted a car wash, and then I filled 'er
    up. So, evidently, you can pay for car washes with the card also.
    
    One question. Do I still need a receipt? Are we supposed to reconcile
    our purchases at all? How long after a card is lost of stolen will it
    take someone to figure out that the $1000 gas bill last month for
    vehicle # XXXXXX wasn't real?
    
    Now, the new Mobil station is a Mini-Mart; I wonder if I can include a
    gallon of milk, loaf of bread, six-pack........
    
    Regards,
    
    Tom
    
    
                        

Well, I batted .330 using the card today.  I usually buy gas at a discount
chain called Speedway.  I tried the card there just in case but it didn't 
work.  Had to drive a couple of miles out of the way where it was 
accepted by an Amoco.  They used the credit card machine and had me
sign the slip, like credit cards used to work.  They didn't ask about 
mileage but they did ask for my "driver ID".  Also, the attendant spent
some time on the phone with the transaction, but it wasn't clear to
me what she was doing.  What are we suppose to do with the receipts, anyway?

335 miles later, and on my way back home, I pulled into a well-lighted 
BP just before getting on the expressway - no luck.  But of course BP is
not listed.  Tomorrow it will be back to Amoco, I guess, but at about $.07 per
gallon more than I'm used to paying.  At least I get a coupon for a free car
wash with every fill up.

    BP was listed on my drivers package.
    

    I had an interesting problem with the fuel card. Namely, the card had
    my old unit number which was replaced two months ago. I called GELCO
    and was told that I would have to be issued a new card. I asked "What
    about DEC's no gas on expense reports policy ?" I was told that
    "Digital want's you to expense as little gas as possible." I was told
    to continue expensing fuel until the replacement card arrives (2 to 3
    weeks). This seems to contradict the Nazi-like language in the letter
    accompanying the card. If this is true, maybe common sense has
    prevailed after all.
    
    BTW, I also asked about AMOCO, since its not listed on the card even
    though I've seen Wright Express decals on their pumps. I was told that
    the card will work if its shown on the pump. However, I was cautioned
    that not every AMOCO may honor the card.
    
    Russ

    Since my card had not arrived as of yesterday, I called GE. They said
    that since they could "annotate" my file, I would be able to expense
    gas the old way for another week, to give the mail time to do its
    thing. 
    
    So, if your card is lost, doesn't work, etc, a call to GE will allow
    you to get reimbursed via the old method, while the problem is worked.
    For those who don't have TMS yet, It will probably be more than a few
    days.
    
    Also, don't think that digital pays the "pump" price, even if it is
    higher than where you typically buy. Wright Express get a non-disclosed
    very cheap price that is far below whats listed on the pumps.
    
    

    
    Does anyone know WHY we are keeping the receipts, HOW LONG we need to
    keep them, and what the consequences are if we LOSE them?

    Paul

    I don't remember seeing anywhere that I was suppose to keep the
    receipts. Where does it say that?
    
    /jim
    

    
    Im not keeping receipts..oh well.
    
    I have a feeling that the next step in the car plan is to deduct the
    $30 (or more) from our paycheck each week.  

    The letter I got says you must retain  the receipt, and I think it says
    to turn it in with your expenses.  The reason most likely is the IRS
    requiring original receipts for anything you are going to write off
    your taxes.

    GE Capital said to trash the receipts.  Got that when I called to
    complain about a transaction taking over 20 minutes at a Sunoco station
    on the Ohio Turnpike.  So far, BP stations are the best.  Pump gas,
    they imprint (not swipe) your card, you sign and you're done.
    
    GE Capital also said it was OK to keep the card in the car, even though
    stations accept them without any PIN or verification......  Ok with me.

    
    Just talked to a GE Capital Rep (800-944-3555) and was also told that
    receipts are not needed.

    We get a monthly statement from our Fleet Administrator (at least from
    the fuel card mob).  This lists all fuel purchased.
    
    I keep my receipts until I verify this statement, then trash 'em.
    
    Bill

    regarding note .18,
    
    I have now tried the card out and found that it works quite well as
    advertised.
    
    I'm a happy camper.
    
    With the current craziness in gasoline prices, I'm just as happy to
    pay the $30.00 personal use charge each week to Digital, and not have
    to finance my travels on my credit card.
    
    It turns out that the Write system *IS* widespread, and accepted at
    most major petrol retailors.
    
    

    re: .78
    
    The program appears to work fine here in Upstate NY.  I can assure you
    that the automated Mobil stations work well - you input the card as you
    did with your credit card, they ask for the odometer reading, and then
    you pin #.  Even with the last two steps, which take a few seconds, the
    difference is trivial.
    
    I also enjoy the change.
    
    Chuck                                      

    
    I pulled into a big BP station on Interstate 20, filled up, 
    and presented my card.
    
    Crunch....Crunch.... Sign here please.
    
    Me: "Don't you have to swipe this card?"
    Attendant: "Huh?"
    
    Me: "Don't you need to call someone and get authorization?"
    Attendant: "What?"
    
    Me: "You know, swipe the card, enter my odometer reading, and pin
         number."
    Attendant: "Please sign here sir."
    
    Me: "Cool!"
    Attendant: "Have a nice day sir and come again!"