Conference 7.286::digital

Fact, not fiction.  People here were notified Monday.

re: .1

>Fact, not fiction.  People here were notified Monday.

If it's only 500 then why are people talking about 40% of
their group being wiped out?  And as far as changing the
skill mix, wasn't one of the last notes in the "I'm History"
string a guy in ALF who was NT-certified, etc.?

If the article is correct, one third of Digital headcount
resides in MCS.  That in itself is pretty startling.

- paul

> If the article is correct, one third of Digital headcount
> resides in MCS. 

  More than 1/3. The 22K figure is *U.S.* MCS. This would be 2/3 of the U.S.
workforce.

    I have seen several resumes of persons getting hit.  Some were
    NT-certified, or in process, some had UNIX and some VMS.
    
    Can you say peanut butter?  Every organization is different.  I don't
    understand how some people are hit and others aren't.  For that matter,
    there are some groups that shouldn't be touched and yet are compelled
    to contribute to the peanut butter level.
    
    Still shooting ourselves in the foot.
    
    At least I was able to save someone in the last round from a few weeks
    ago.

    I too have had a number of UNIX-skilled folks send resumes because they
    were getting whacked.  Unfortunately, with the SBU hiring freeze and 
    the killing of all open reqns, I cannot bring anyone in, even though
    I'm way under budget/strength & need folks in UNIX Marketing.
    
    Mark
    

A farmer sitting by the stove in a country store sees an old friend walk
in, and asks "Where you been, Jake?  Haven't seen you in town for months."

Jake says "Well, I been pretty busy on the farm.  Got it in mind to do an
experiment with that horse o' mine."

"Oh yeah?", says the first farmer.  "What kind of experiment?"

"You know how expensive it is to keep a horse?  So I been trying to teach
her to live without eatin'."

"Live without eatin'?  How d'you go about that?"

"Simple.  The first week I cut her rations in half.  The next week I cut
that in half, and so on."

The first farmer asks "So how'd it turn out?" and his friend answers "I'll
never know.  Before the experiment was over the damn horse up and died."

___Pete

I was one of the ones hit this week in SI out of Atlanta. My opinion
is that I think the *intention* is to get a good skills mix but what I
see is that the institutional managers are doing what they can to protect
their pets. If you are not one of their pets, regardless of performance
then you are history. I know this to be a fact with me and a couple of
others. Another criteria seems to be years of service. Those with 10 or
more seem to be particularly at risk.

Folks that are new and failed many of their NT courses were sent to "boot 
camp" until they passed while others who passed with flying colors were 
given the boot. Difference is that the high performers who passed was not 
in the "in" crowd. 

In my PSC there are a set of folks who will *never* be let go no matter
what skills mix they have. These people are part of a group that is protected
by one particular manager. This is not observation but a well know fact to 
those in SI in this area.

Unless these do-nothings management folks are identified and given walking 
papers, good people will continue to walk as the "protected" continue to 
bloat whats left of the company.

Regards

Manny

    There were more then 500 people cut.  This cut seemed as heartless as
    they can come.  In MCS, the corporate forecast was 1,100,000,000.00$ 
    margin. Current Forecast is only 990,000,000.00$.  
    The people let go are not the people who screwed up the initial forecast.  
    
    You'd have to be dead not to know the effect this round has had.  The
    best of us are stunned.  People who make up what I would consider the
    very foundation of our efforts locally are actively looking for a job
    so they can leave on their own terms.  No one sees a future here... can
    you see yourself here in 5 years? 10?.
    

    The word is out, if you have <lot's-o-time> and make <lot's-o-bucks>
    then you had better start looking for a job. The intent is to lower
    costs. THE major cost is labor. THE major part of that cost is your
    seasoned veteran who can work on all that "OLD" stuff, but makes too
    much to work on pee-cee's. Therfore - since we are a pee-cee company
    now - fire the old guys and hire them new cheap pee-cee guru's from
    college at <$20K/year.
    
    The ONLY one's that got killed around here were solid hard working
    knowledgable OLD guys who could fix anything. We are NETWORK company?
    That's a joke, if we were, the we would have kept Bill Z. who was our
    only CNE resource. His crime? 50+.
    
    After all the veterans are gone, and the customers are gone, who will
    want to buy digital? There won't be anything left but the managers.
    
    .mike.
    

    Dear .7
    
    So...identify this manager. If you are heading out the door, what have
    you got to lose. Perhaps if they are exposed, it may lead to their own
    "retirement."
    
    Dennis

    
    I'm gone as of 5 today. I have been with DEC for 10 years starting as 
    a Temp working to Logistics Coordinator. A few months ago, my parts
    were sourced to an outside vendor as were a few other sites in the ACC
    district. None of us whose parts were sourced still have a job!
    DEC has cut its own throat. I don't see any support personel left in
    this company within 2 years. If you are in sales, I believe you will 
    need a new job at the end of the fiscal year. If you are in
    MCS-Logistics, you will need a new job within 18-24months. When they
    tell you to vendorize, start looking! Quite frankly, the only people
    who will profit from the "New Digital" will be upper management
    (A.k.a, The Senior Leadership Team) and 
    "the good ole boys". 
    
    EX. Minority CSE with long years was booted. Majority CSE with far fewer 
    years, but with large case of brown nose/stiff tongue/poor skills is still
    here.
    
    Lots of bitterness at the way upper management makes the poor peons on
    the line take the shaft for their mistakes, but no regrets at the
    opportunities available to all of us leaving the "new and improved
    DEC".
    
    Check out your next forcast,
    
    Goodbye and good luck.......  
    

    Addendum: have fun with this note. I won't be here to see it!
    No regrets, but my butt still hurts!

    If the policies of replacing experienced individuals with recent
    graduates, to get expenses under control, are true then pretty soon 
    there won't be anyone around with enough experience to answer any 
    questions.

    Just out of curiosity, wouldn't the replacement of experienced (older)
    employees with cheaper, less-experienced (younger) employees have to be
    watched carefully to avoid the appearance of a pattern of age
    discrimination?  In the older layoffs, personnel used to have to
    approve the mix for various EEO concerns.
    
    NOTE (cya): this is not to say I see evidence of age discrimination - I
    don't, personally.  I'm just curious whether anyone cares any longer
    about assiduously avoiding the appearance of such.

    RE: .11
    
    I should, perhaps, let Mr. McLean's parting shot go. But I won't.
    
    Our Territory Manager is an aggressive, tough minded executive, who has
    assembled a very capable management team. He happens to be black. Our
    District Manager in the ACC is a results oriented, fair, and extremely
    capable individual. She happens to be a woman. The notion that either of
    these two people would support the selection of a TFSO candidate if
    they had the slightest suspicion that race was a factor is laughable
    in the extreme.
    
    

    
      Interesting reading in this string....
    
       By the way, the Age Discrimination Act of 1967 was recently tested
     in court.  Judgement favoring the ex-employee ( non-Digital )
    
    

    I've been thru two TFSOs myself, so I know what it feels like,
    and that many capable people are let go.  However, in the last
    one in my group, a junior employee who was consistently
    not functioning in a professional manner and was not nearly
    as well-skilled as the more senior people who were kept on, was
    convinced that he was being discriminated against when he was let
    go in the first round of TFSOs.  Sometimes people have a reality
    problem...
    

RE: .6 Story about a horse

>"Simple.  The first week I cut her rations in half.  The next week I cut
>that in half, and so on."

In my country the story is about a donkey and it goes a bit longer:

"Simple: I made some experiments sometimes cutting her rations in half, 
a few weeks later reducing by 2%, two months later by suppressing 5% of oats,
the next month reducing a bit other piece of forage..."

"What a great idea!"

"Yeah. People were coming from all over the country and even overseas to see
the results. Other farmers who had more avalaible fields and lucern than
I own were very excited and started the same experiments. 
Most of the patented agricultural experts predicted a great success and
an immense return on investment. The donkey market rose like crazy"

"You must be rich by now!"

"No, just when she was about to get used to the last diet, she died"

      Re. .15
    
      I re-read .11 several times, and I can't see where he made any
    suggestion that race was an issue; age perhaps, and experience, insofar
    as both these tend to be linked with higher salaries. Does the phrase
    'good ole boy' have strong racial overtones in the US? To me it sounds
    just like an equivalent of an 'old boy network' here (UK), used to refer
    to old schoolfriends, cronies, drinking buddies, fellow freemasons and
    suchlike rather than to any specific ethnic group.
    
      'Brown nose' is, I guess, not a reference to the colour of anyone's
    skin, but to the (presumed) results of close contact with certain parts
    of other people's anatomies.
    
    Ken

   
    Re -1:
     
   > EX. Minority CSE with long years was booted. Majority CSE with far fewer 
    
    

                RE: .19

    	I see the world turns in the same direction on your side of the
    pond as it does on ours.  The good ole boy society and brown noses are
    just as you describe.

    Joe

Re: does  'good ole boy' have racial overtones in the US?

Yes it does. E.g. recent scandal of FBI personnel attending a 
'good ole boy roundup'.  I think there were firings over that.

M 

    re: .22
    
>Yes it does. E.g. recent scandal of FBI personnel attending a 
>'good ole boy roundup'.  I think there were firings over that.
    
    Absolutely nothing was done about it.
    
    Bob
    

    re: .22
    
    I disagree with the answer given in .22
    
    I personally don't believe one should link racism with the "good ol boy
    network".  My own interpretation of the "good ol' boy" network is the 
    Barney approach - "I know you, you know me, we're a happy family" where 
    friends look after one another.  Now, it is certainly common for friends 
    to be of like race, but it is not unheard of that those friendships may
    cross racial (or any other group) lines.
    
    Dan                              

>>    I personally don't believe one should link racism with the "good ol boy
>>    network".  My own interpretation of the "good ol' boy" network is the 

There is a difference between "good ol' boy" and "old boy network."  Prior to
this note string, I've never heard of a "good ol' boy network" (i.e., the two
combined).  "Old boy network" does not, in my mind, have racial overtones,
while "good ol' boy" does.

						Brian

>"Old boy network" does not, in my mind, have racial overtones,
>while "good ol' boy" does.


Why?

	"Old boy network" conjors up visions of guys in blue 
	business suits looking out for each others careers.

	"good ol' boy" is something completely different. The thoughts 
	of a bunch of guys hangin out in front of the general store in 
	overalls making unkind comments at certain passersby does come 
	to mind. (If you accept that view, then yes, it could be considered 
	as having "racial overtones")

							mike

>	"good ol' boy" is something completely different. The thoughts 
>	of a bunch of guys hangin out in front of the general store in 
>	overalls making unkind comments at certain passersby does come 
>	to mind. (If you accept that view, then yes, it could be considered 
>	as having "racial overtones")

I thought I detected a bit of prejudice in your remark.  I just wanted to
make sure.  You never know.  I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt
in those instances.  Thanks for clearing that up.

    So, did the "numbers" add up to 500? does anyone know? Do we have a VP
    of TFSO?
    
    .mike.

Geesh, so one cannot be a "Good Ol' Boy" without being stereotyped into
having some sorta racial prejeduce?

It's bad enough that Southerners are so often sterotyped as being slow 
and dumb; I guess now we're suppose to be slow, dumb and bigots <sigh>.
(oh, and we wear overalls and stand in front of the general store making
unkind remarks at passers-by :-(.

-Andy (native of the South)

RE: .28,.30

	I never claimed those were my views or beliefs. I was describing
	the stereotype for the person who didn't understand the
	difference. Now if I didn't describe it properly, so be it, but I
	never, ever claimed I believed in them.

	Jeez... Take a Prozac and chill.

							mike

Re .30

Who said anything about the south?  And I agree with the last line of .31

>	difference. Now if I didn't describe it properly, so be it, but I
>	never, ever claimed I believed in them.


You replied to the comment in .25 that said...

>this note string, I've never heard of a "good ol' boy network" (i.e., the two
>combined).  "Old boy network" does not, in my mind, have racial overtones,
>while "good ol' boy" does.
>

The "in my mind" does tend to make me believe that person has prejudiced ideas
about people who live in rural areas or Southerners in general.  You replied to
and extended the comments in .25 that lead me to believe you agreed with it. 
You are correct.  You very carefully described the statements in .25 without
saying you agreed or disagreed.

>	I never claimed those were my views or beliefs. I was describing
>	the stereotype for the person who didn't understand the
>	difference. 

The person you responded to was soliciting an opinion from the individual
that stated: 

	>"Old boy network" does not, in my mind, have racial overtones,
	>while "good ol' boy" does.  ^^^^^^^^^^

All that was asked is "Why?".  There was no indication that the person 
asking did not understand the difference, only that he wanted to know 
"Why" this individual felt that way.

Unless you were speaking on behalf of the above individual (and you did
not indicate you were in your reply), it is difficult to read from your
statements you were not describing your own beliefs.  

>       Now if I didn't describe it properly, so be it, but I
>	never, ever claimed I believed in them.

I will assume you did not describe it properly.

-Andy

>Who said anything about the south? 

When was the last time you heard anyone referred to a "Good Ol' Boy" from, 
for example, San Francisco?  :-)

FWIW, I pulled out my Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary and found:

	good old boy  n.(1972): a usually rural white Southerner who 
	conforms to the social behavior of his peers

Gee, faced with this definition, I would say that "Good Ol' Boy" could
have "racial overtones". <sigh>  It is so easy to twist things now into
racial issues.

-Andy

RE: <<< Note 4529.35 by ALFSS2::MITCHAM_A "-Andy in Alpharetta (near Atlanta)" >>>
    
>>Gee, faced with this definition, I would say that "Good Ol' Boy" could
>>have "racial overtones". <sigh>  It is so easy to twist things now into
>>racial issues.

    Considering the past (and some of the present) history of the South, it
    wouldn't take a whole lot of "twisting" to make it a racial issue.
    
    But don't worry, Montana and Idaho are working on similar reputations.
    
                                     Greg
    

    Since we're ratholing...
    
    South Boston also comes to mind.
    

>> FWIW, I pulled out my Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary and found:
>> 
>> 	good old boy  n.(1972): a usually rural white Southerner who 
>> 	conforms to the social behavior of his peers
>> 
>> Gee, faced with this definition, I would say that "Good Ol' Boy" could
>> have "racial overtones". <sigh>  It is so easy to twist things now into
>> racial issues.

That was (part of) my point in .25.  Mike answered quite well, so I didn't
think I needed to add anything.  For the record, I don't have any
preconceptions about those who consider themselves "Good Ol' Boys," I was
merely referring to a common interpretation of the term.  I am fully aware
there are multiple definitions.

						Brian

Good ol' boy continued ...

I don't think that term originally had strong racial overtones, but it did
cover the segment of the population that was likely to join the Klan and
related groups. i.e. not every "Good ol' boy" was in the Klan but
the Klan membership probably did have a lot of ...

The explicit racial overtones became clear in July 1995. At a 
"Good Ol' Boy Roundup" there were some events that were very racist, there
were known Klan members present and some FBI staffers. The scandal associated
with the FBI presence still makes headlines every now and then. Including
the claim that the 'Events'  were staged to embarrass the FBI!

The CNN Web page, under US News, has a few pointers to the story.

M

    my humble $.02 worth ....
    
    good 'ol boys usually means (to me) locals that are distrustful of 
    outsiders, those different than themselves and their values.  Maybe
    racial, might be that they dislike tourists (Maine comes to mind). The
    image outside the general store is what I think of.
    
    good old boys usually means (again to me) the corporate network, men
    that have worked together in various groups over the years, recommend
    one another for positions, promotions, etc.  This is what I think of
    as the exclusive male bastian of power.  Sexism and the 'glass ceiling'
    come to mind more readily than does racism.
    
    
    
    Carel

The following news item appeared in VTX LIVEWIRE:-
    
				04-Apr-96

    DIGITAL TO CREATE 200 NEW JOBS IN THREE YEARS

    Digital Equipment is planning to create an additional 200 jobs in
    Ireland over the next three years.  A formal announcement to this
    effect is expected in the near future, though neither it nor the local
    development authority, the IDA, were prepared to comment as yet.  The
    majority of the new posts are expected to be created at the company's
    multi-vendor computer services division in Dublin. 

    The Irish Times, Republic of Ireland.  30th March 1996

			Digital Internal Communication             
    
    This is interesting!
    
    Several of the operations associated with remote support have been moved
    to Dublin from the Basingstoke UK-CSC in recent months.
    
    200 sounds like the number of people in the UK-CSC.
    
    The government of Ireland currently provides strong incentives for
    businesses to move to Ireland.
    
    Discussions on refurbishing the current UK-CSC building have dragged on
    and on and on, and still no conclusion has been reached.
    
    				Dave Clark

    re .42 
    
    Hi,
    
    >200 sounds like the number of people in the UK-CSC.
    
    >The government of Ireland currently provides strong incentives for
    >businesses to move to Ireland.
    
    I wonder whether there are plans to centralize the CSC activities
    of the other European countries. Overhere in Holland
    we where spit up in onsite and offsite services last year...  
    That did not make sense to me a small country where all customers
    are whitin a range of 250 kilometers.
    
    Regards,
    
    Jan

    About Digital's layoffs, I've been with DEC for 16 years (maybe
    I shouldn't broadcast that fact ;^) and have seen many experienced,
    outstanding workers TFSO'd, including my husband.  There are countless
    people who have been hit.  However, when I try to recount managers
    who have been laid off, I have trouble.  
    
    It seems to me, and this may just be a perception problem, that 
    managers at risk seem to find other positions relatively easy.  And, 
    if another position is not available, a new position is created for
    them.  Is this just me?  Do others see this as well?  
    
    Terri

    I can think of 3 here in the building in the 3rd wave.  There were more
    but I really don't remember who.

    re .45
    
    I have had at least 12 managers here at Digital.  Only one is still
    managing and only one other is still with the company (unless I  have
    miss counted/forgotten some).

    I know personally of at least 3 managers who were let go with packages 
    and one who transitioned back to technical contribution.
    
    Steve

    In the 10 years I have been working for Digital UK I have worked for
    many managers. All except two of them have "moved on" with substantial
    payouts. Interestingly, the two who remain are the two who I was
    happiest working for. One of the others was probably a loss to the
    company; not sure about the rest.  Amazingly, I am once again working
    for the manager I started working for ten years ago (though he is in a
    completely different role). At one stage I got the "brown envelope";
    the manager who gave it me is no longer here, and I am. Crazy or what?

About this time two years ago, in one week, my manager, her manager, and his
manager all got TFSO'd.  Managers are not immune!

I've lost count of the number of managers I've had over the last 4� years.  
Only the present one is still with the company.

Chris.

    From April 94 to March 95 I had 10 different managers - of whom 5 are
    still with us.

    Thanks for all the responses regarding management TFSOs.  It's
    obvious from the replies that managers are not immune from layoffs.
    
    At one time, the list of VPs in this company was ridiculous; there
    was VP for everything.  Hopefully, there aren't so many now.  I bet
    there's a VP of TFSOs though ;^).
    
    Terri
    

Yesterday alone, I saw at least five, if not six announcements of new
VP appointments, some of whom had such obscure titles as "in charge of
Growing the (something or other) Business".  I think the new-VP rate
is balancing the worker-firing rate.

				Steve

    
    	I don't think that last appointment was a VP slot, though.
    	Karen something-or-other?
    

I wasn't counting that one, which I got today.

			Steve

    
    On the Key Contacts List in VTX, which was updated yesterday,
    there are 199 VPs.
    
    FYI.
    

	199 VP's on the wall, 199 VP's.........

							mike

> 199 VP's on the wall, 199 VP's.........

  You take one down,
  Two spring from the ground,

  200 VPs now on the wall.

                                   Atlant

    I don't know if anyone's said it before, but no one seems to realize
    that a company has what I believe are called "functional" VPs.  They
    are the VPs that are required to "do business".
    
    If we are trying to make a big sale to a VP of company A, for example, 
    we can't send in a grunt (sorry, mixing topics) to finesse this sale.  
    You need to send in a peer...another VP.  It's good for business. 
    Then, there are the customers who will only see someone at the VP
    level; don't bother sending anyone "lower".
    
    That's why VPs are seemingly a "dime a dozen" here.  The "real" VPs, if 
    you will, are the Excutive Committee/Palmer's direct reports/officers
    of the Corporation....that level.  And I'll bet you that that bunch is 
    no larger here than in another company of comparable size 
      
    Sue

    Re: .59
    
    I have a cheap solution to that.  Just print up a bunch of "I'm a VP"
    badges and give one to whichever employee is meeting the customer's
    VP.  Why have this stack of idle VPs sitting around waiting for a
    chance to be displayed? :-)
    
    					Steve

    doesn't 'functional vp' belong in the oxymoron topic?  Oh that's
    Soapbox!
    
    ron

Job Code: 50AD                             Wage Class: 4 (Exempt)     Shift: 1
          SOFTWARE PRIN ENGINEER           Travel %: 10               SRI: 39
                                           Relo Funds: Yes            Hours: 40

Requisition Number:  H569683               Recruiter:  Wayne Louder
Date Opened: 02-FEB-96                     E-mail:     POWDML::LOUDER
Job Site: MRO 200 FOREST STREET            Loc/DTN: PKO3-2/Q22        223-7898
              MARLBORO MA 01752-3085
                                           Hiring Manager: MIKE GREENFIELD
Job Description:
Digital's SW Partner Eng organization provides consulting, porting,
characterization and optimization assistance to key third party application
developers on Digital's Alpha platform. Application availability and optimized
performance is the key to Digital deliverying Alpha based solutions to our
customers. 

re. number of VPs

  The measurement should be not how many VPs we have but rather what is
  our revenue & profit per VP and how does it compare with our competitors,
  HP, IBM, Compaq ?

Avinash

    
    
    I thing we need to treat VP's like the troops.  There should be at
    least 25% of VP's as variable workforce.
    
    

Sue:

> I don't know if anyone's said it before, but no one seems to realize
> that a company has what I believe are called "functional" VPs.  They
> are the VPs that are required to "do business".

  So why don't we just get rid of the dysfunctional VPs?


Everyone:

  So how many of these 199 VPs are the bank-manager style VPs, Veeps
  in name only? How many are VPs that are supposed to be in charge
  of some area of Digital? How many are "Officers of the Corporation"?

  How much do we pay all these folks, as compared to "the troops"?

                                   Atlant

re .59

	I have never seen a VP at a customer site trying to help close a sale.

> I have never seen a VP at a customer site trying to help close a sale.

  I have.

  More than once.

                                   Atlant

    I was wrong in calling them "functional" VPs....the correct term
    is positional. 
    
    Sue
                  

Re .66 

There are many GOOD things about this company, and we DO have some problems 
which we need to address, but if you are in sales or sales support, and you 
have never seen a VP with a customer trying to close a sale, I'd like to know 
WHERE you work. If you are NOT in sales, then your statement has some truth 
to it, but it's meaning/validity is zero, and it would appear to just be a 
cheap shot at the company.

I have seen MANY instances where a VP is closely involved in the sales cycle.

SteveS

re .69

Well i suppose its what business culture you come from!!

Over here in the Uk i dont think i have ever seen a VP in person let alone one
at a customer site trying to close business.

We dont seem to have VP as a job title over here!

Gerald

     In my bit of the UK (London) we have had a VP come to a customer site
     in response to a remedial issue!  I suppose the fact that there was a
     large  sale dependant on us satisfying the customer might have been
     relevant.

     Mind you they did have to fly the VP in from the US, I haven't seen
     any UK VPs.

     StuartR

    I had one yesterday at my customer site.  Exceptionally good visit. 
    And I have seen it before.  I'm glad we have some of the best!

Re .69

>If you are NOT in sales, then your statement has some truth 
>to it, but it's meaning/validity is zero, and it would appear to just be a 
>cheap shot at the company.

Oh, do we have to be in sales to be worthy of VP support?  I think not.  
I have been in SI for 6 years, done tons of sales support and fire fights 
to save sales.  And why is it a cheap shot to state what I have experienced?

    Regarding the UK, from what I can gather I think your directors 
    and managing directors hold a similar position within a company 
    to what VPs do in the US.
    
    But, in the UK, within Digital specifically, do you have directors
    and MDs?  I haven't heard that you do.
    
    Sue

>Re .69
>
>>If you are NOT in sales, then your statement has some truth 
>>to it, but it's meaning/validity is zero, and it would appear to just be a 
>>cheap shot at the company.
>
>Oh, do we have to be in sales to be worthy of VP support?  I think not.  
>I have been in SI for 6 years, done tons of sales support and fire fights 
>to save sales.  And why is it a cheap shot to state what I have experienced?

Your comment was about "seeing a VP close a sale", to paraphrase...don't take 
comments out of context...YOUR context!

And, if you've done tons of sales support, then your comment does have 
relevance (and folks, SI is sales!). If senior executives in the UK (whatever 
the title) don't help close sales, there's a big problem.  FWIW, my work with 
UK sales/marketing would indicate that is NOT the case.

SteveS

Back on topic (unless there's a new one, I'm catching up), I see that the 
redundancies have started again in the UK.  I am absolutely *amazed* at the 
people they've been laying off; technically competent, experienced people, in 
fields where Digital has often said it has a `skills shortage'.  Seems that 
what's happened is that someone's gone through the recent SAMS bookings, and 
if someone hasn't been working on a chargable account recently, they're shown 
the door.  There's plenty of work out there for such people, so why wasn't any 
of it passed on to them before giving them the shove?

Bemused, once again, of Bishop's Stortford.

    .51 revision
    
    >From April 94 to March 95 I had 10 different managers - of whom 5 are
    >still with us.
    
    Now there are only 4.