Conference 7.286::digital

    A number of mail-order vendors that advertise only in Computer Shopper
    are carrying Starions.  I assume somebody dumped some inventory.

Sounds more like a Venturis, which I've seen in piles at Building #19
(a New England "insurance sale and discontinued items" chain, though the
SCSI and token ring adapters give me pause....

				Steve

    which Building 19 did you see these at?
    
    Deb

Nashua - but this was a couple of months ago when they were having a special
sale of computer equipment.  I imagine that we unload bunches of
discontinued models to "salvage" places the same as other manufacturers do.
Too bad that they aren't offered to employees at the same prices rather than
the unrealistic prices offered by the ServiCenters.

				Steve

    I'll stick my neck out on this one...
    
    Someone has a CC (cost center) with a bunch of obselete(?) PC's/parts.
    
    Someone in Digital wants to purchase. The finance procedures say the
    receiving CC must pay "standard cost". They decide that if their CC is
    to be billed at current price they will buy "new" instead (which may
    even have a lower st. cost than the "old" stuff).
    
    The CC finaly decides to "broker" the stuff to recover some real $$$ -
    at probably 25� to 50� on the $...maybe more, maybe less.
    
    Now in the long run the original CC took a bath on the material. If
    they could have written down some of the value (let's say comparable to
    an offer from a broker) the EPP folks could have picked it up and
    marked it up some for sale to employees; or for that matter through
    DIAL to other CC's!
    
    Rob Wall
    
    

   re .0
    
     The address looks like a company that used to lease DEC PCs and buy up ex
    lease equipment from DEC. Used to be a note on this in the older IBM pc 
    notes file. 

          
    ********************************************************************    
    	 
    	                       MARCH MADNESS SPECIALS
    
           
    ********************************************************************
    
    
      	MODEL    MODEL #  STYLE  CPU  MHz  MEMORY  DRIVE  PRICE 
      	
          Celebris   821AA-03   SL   486  66     8M    270MB  1,099.00 *M/M
          Celebris   821AA-WC   SL   486  66     8M    540MB    999.00     
          Celebris   830AA-03   SL	 PEN  60     8M    270MB  1,179.00
    *M/M
          Venturis   854AA-WB   SL   486  66     4M	   270MB    759.00
          Venturis   856AA-WB   SL   PEN  60     4M    270MB  1,049.00
    
          THESE MODELS INLCUDE: 15" SVGA color monitor (PCXBV-PC);
    MS-DOS/Win 3.11;
          Mouse; 101 Key Keyboard; 1 Year Return To SERVICenter Warranty.
    
          SL = SLIMLINE     PEN = PENTIUM   *M/M = MULTIMEDIA       
    	
          * Multimedia Kits in above 821AA systems inlcude 2X CD Drive,
    sound card, 
    	speakers.  Multimedia Kits can be added to all other models.  See 
    	pricing below.
    
          WARRANTY EXTENSION UPGRADE:
    
          2 YEARS     95.00  (Return to SERVICenter on Digital PC; all
    third party 
                              options and upgrades will carry the original
     		          manufacturer warranty.  This warranty is for new
    PC 
                              purchases only.)
    				
    
          UPGRADES:  All hardware and software upgrades are available for
    new PCs, 
          and the PCs you already own.  All upgrades are installed,
    configured and 
          tested at your local SERVICenter.
    
    

 It was indeed offered to employees.  I had an Email message on it (which
 I just deleted this past Friday).  It was coupled with a deal on a low
 interest loan with DCU.




 Jim

My point was that the prices charged employees are much higher than those
Digital got from the salvage dealers.

				Steve

	Well, if the package in .0 has a 17" Sony monitor, then that would
	add a few hundred to the value of the system making it a much better
	deal. The "March Madness Special" only included a 15" monitor.

Larry

> My point was that the prices charged employees are much higher than those
> Digital got from the salvage dealers.
    
    Of course, Digital's overhead in single sales to employees must be much
    higher than it costs them to ship a truckload to a salvager, too, don't
    you think?
    
    -Mark

I imagine so - after all, Digital doesn't do anything "for the good of the
corporation" anymore.  Everything is judged on how it will impact each
cost center's bottom line.

					Steve

    re: .0 BNF
    
    If that's the name I remember from way back, they used to sell all
    sorts of electronic scrap parts and the like.
    
    They are most likely legit and most likely dealing in goods that we
    dumped.
    
    -- Russ

    re .14
    
    Yes ! They are a scarp dealer. They seems to be legit. My friend
    bought has ordered the DEC PC from them. ( based on their flyer ).
    They have indicated to him that these are in original boxes, unopened.
    My friend told me that they will give him a receipt stating that they
    are selling a DEC PC. So I am convinced they are legit.
    
    My only question is " Why PCBU did not give a aggresive discount to 
    the employees, instead decided to sell it to the scarp dealer ". In my
    opinion they could have sold the PCs to the employees at the same rate they 
    are selling to scarp dealer. It will be interesting to find out what 
    kind of warranty they offer on these PCs and who provides the warranty 
    service.
    

    
    I know it is late, but it is SCRAP dealer..8*)

      Perhaps, rather than asking DEC to sell this stuff through EPP it
    would be better to just try to get someone to inform people when it is
    going to be flogged to a dealer at knock-down prices, and let employees
    know how to contact the dealer to buy it? That could be done
    electronically (eg VTX Readers Choice), and would take very little time or
    effort compared to handling individual sales to employees. From the sound
    of it, you'll almost certainly get a better deal that way as well.
    
    Ken

    
    	It probably comes down to how is effects taxes and the bottom line.
    If you sell the stuff to a scrap dealer at a loss as excess inventory,
    you can write it off. If you sell it to your employee its an employee
    benefit and you can't write it off.
    
    Ron

    BNF is the latest incarnation of the old B&F (Boniface and Fink)
    surplus store in Peabody, Mass, used to be on 119 Foster st. in a 
    big old brick mill bldg. I believe it's now run by Pete Boniface's 
    sons, Frank Fink sold out or left many years ago. I used to be one 
    of the Saturday morning "regulars" way back in the early 70s, along
    with the visits to Meshna, Eli Heffron's in Cambridge and an occasional
    trip to Young Engineering.
    
    Today it's ham radio fleas, ESS in Manchester and an occasional local
    computer show.

Re: .18,
(If you sell it to employees you can't write off the loss)

That's funny, because Apple just did EXACTLY that with excess inventory
from an over-estimated Christmas retail season.  Heck, you didn't even need
to be an Apple employee, you just need to KNOW one.
I know because I got a Performa 6200 (street price of $1800 even now)
for $1300 through this program.  With monitor, 8MB memory, 1GB disk,
CD and tons of software, it's gotta be at a loss. 

Apple also reported operating losses based on liquidating overstocked 
inventory.  Think they're not connected?

    hey, a scrap dealer won't return anything, or ask for repairs, or
    complain about older software, or demand an update to the firmware for the
    known bug in the...
    
    Digital employees, on the other hand,...

    
    
    re: .21  you hit the nail right on the head!
    
    gb
    

    re .21/.22
    
    I would be perfectly happy buying a PC from Digital if it was a) super
    cheap, and b) came with absolutely NO support of any kind.
    
    But rather than even offering it to us, they send them to a scrap
    dealer... that's what's sad.
    
    -Steve
    

        I just called PC COMPLEAT to buy the following item. I was told that
    the item will not be available till May30th ,. Even then he was not
    willing to give me a definite date.  He said that the manufacturer (
    Digital ) has not shipped the products ( He did not know I was a Digital 
    employee). He also said that he is expcteing the products from HP,
    Toshiba and IBM in another 2 weeks !

    So I guess we are missing the boat again ! We will advertise for a
    product. When the customer tries to buy it we will tell them it is not
    in stock and give them a delivery of 60 days and by that time this
    product becomes outdated and we can turn around and sell it to a scarp
    dealer ! Sheesh - I guess this is called TIME TO MARKET.

	Product I wanted to buy was

        DEC HiNote Ultra II 133MHz 	FR-P87WG- AA
        16MB memory Upgrade             KTV-ULTRA /16
        Lithium Battery                 FR-PCPSH-AB
        Mobile Media kit                FR-PCP8D-W1
        Megahertz Modem                 XJ4288

        Total order value would have been just $6K. 

      

Yep - I exchanged mail with a user on CompuServe who had cash in hand, wanting
to buy an Ultra II.  None to be found.  He bought an HP instead.

				Steve

    From what I understand from a person in the PCBU, they have already
    sold the entire production line of the Ultra IIs (don't know to who,
    maybe distributors). No more will be built. Ultra VPs are still
    available although not shipping yet. Don't know if PCs Compleat is one
    of the places that got some Ultra IIs or not.
    
    Debbie
    

    Sounds to me like digital is getting out of the pc market by default, I
    spoke with a customer last week who wanted 50 machines, they'd be
    talking to her Alpha, implying she's already a customer, but no one had
    any digital pc's to sell her, and no one would call her back from
    digital. She ordered the Compac's instead.
    
    She was probably calling no-longer-manned phone numbers.
    
    .mike.

    re .27
    
    Boy I hope there's a VP or some other "Empowered" type person following
    stories like this up. ie: your has rung by now and you have been asked
    (nicely) to provide details/contact names so that someone can go
    express our sincere regrets and extend an invitation to buy from us
    again (in fact it may not yet be too late).
    
    r
    

Re: .28

I have to assume that this was written as sarcasm, otherwise it is not
illustrative of the way things work at Digital.

				Steve

    Well, the VP part was a cheap shot but we have one or more for every other
    function you might think of 8^). I was hoping that someone might be in
    a position to follow up on this [granted it is logistically difficult
    since there is no clear geography indicator other than the author's
    node].
    
    Fifty PC'c to have been ordered last week. That's probably 100 - 200K$.
    Probably not yet shipped from a competitor (although the order is in
    the pipe). So if someone could get on it and fill it with something
    from the channels overstock that is credited with the PCBU
    slowdown...oh, I forgot...Digital doesn't sell PC's. Anyway, if someone
    could fill it with a day or three of "major sucking up" (to coin a
    phrase from the movie "Pretty Woman") it would be some terrific RIO.
    
    3 days labour for 150K$ sale?
    
    What, did I miss something here?!?
    
    Rob Wall
    

    Hey ! I am still holding nearly $5K+ to spend on a Hi Note Ultra II . If
    only they can give me one ! PC Compleat will take my order, but cannot
    promise me delivery even on May 31st 1996. They are not even sure
    whether they will even get any notebooks from Digital. To be honest I
    talked to several sales reps from PC compleat and I got the same
    answers. One person even said they can sell be other brands ! So what 
    can say? I work for Digital and I still cannot to buy a Digital notebook. 
    I do not like to carry around an HP or IBM notebook. But I guess I have 
    no choice !
    
    Jay
    
    PS: This memo was NOT written out of any sarcasm- But out of
    frustration in dealing with PCBU. Is it too much ask for a meaningful
    delivery date ?  Why advertise if you cannot sell one ?

    Jay:
    
    ever hear of the 18 month leadtime for pdp's?  digitalsold many at
    triple digit margins...maybe someone in SLT went back into the future
    and thot of this wonderful idea...
    
    time to wake up, slt...if the lead time suck on our products, "they"
    will just buy elsewhere.

Re .32

Just a quick comment... "triple digit margins"...

Neat trick, given that margin is defined as a percentage that profit (either 
gross or net) is of selling price, i.e., CAN NOT EVER be triple digits (can 
you sell something that costs nothing?).

SteveS, who sells lots of stuff, but even I ain't THAT good :-)

    re .28
    
    Nope, nothing has "rung", the VP of
    "sucking-up-to-customers-going-elsewhere" apparently hasn't been filled
    yet. Did you really expect anyone to follow up? I figure that this is
    one teeny little illustration of how badly we are missing the boat.
    
    Or maybe a better example of trimming a little too close to the bone.
    
    .mike.

        I have not received any phone calls yet either ! By the way I have received
    a standard Form letter from a VP from PCBU, addressed to my Digital 
    office address, asking me to become a Digital PC reseller !  WOW ! They 
    cannot even take  my single order for a Notebook, But want me to become a 
    Digital reseller ; -)  I guess some telemarketing firm which is
    managing this mailing campaign forgot to remove Digital employees from
    the mailing list :-)

    Jay ( Who regrettably will make up his mind to buy another brand notebook 
    tomorrow,since Digital brand is NOT available ! ).
     

> I guess some telemarketing firm which is managing this mailing
> campaign forgot to remove Digital employees from the mailing list :-)

  Gee, I'd have wondered if it was *DELIBERATE*! :-)

  I can hear the schemers now: "...not only would we lose headcount,
  and DIGITAL-noting headcount at that, but we'd gain another sucker,
  err, valued Digital reseller!"

                                   Atlant

    re .36
    
    Hmm.. I wondered about this also . So I went back to the letter and
    read again to understand hidden message ( if any )..
    
    The letter reads :
    
    Dear Reseller,
    
    Few weeks ago I wrote to tell you how you can use the selling power of
    groupware to deliver more servers than ever... Through one of the most
    exciting promotions in Digital Marketing history.
    
    Blah .. Blah .. Blah
    
    The letter is signed by  Raymond L Weadcock,VP & General Manager Americas
    PCBU.
    
    The letter is address to my office address with the correct mail stop.
    Who ever launched this promotion probably bought the mailing list from 
    some magazine. They could have simply told the telemarketing firm to 
    eliminate the Digital employees from the mailing list ! I wonder how 
    many employees from our competition got similar letters;_). 
    
    Jay
    
    PS: By the way this is the 2nd letter folks !

    re: buying PC's from the competition ...
    
    Unfortunately, the Field (at least where I am) has a long tradition of
    buying laptops from our competitors, because we either can't get one
    from Digital, or they are outrageously priced, even at internal cost.
    In my own area, it's not uncommon to see NEC, Compaq, or IBM laptops in
    use, even when going to customer calls or when doing work onsite.
    
    Bottom line: you are just another customer to the PCBU, and not a very
    valued one at that. You have to act like a customer and not be a victim
    to the Digital madness; do your evaluation of the models on the market,
    including price and availability, and buy the one that meets your needs.
    
    Take a look at the announcements in last week's PC Week about the new
    models from Compaq and IBM, they look very competitive to Digital's new
    Ultras, and according to my CompUSA resource, they'll hit the shelves
    in large numbers at the end of the month.
    
    Geoff