| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 4431.1 | Solve this specific case | TALLIS::GORTON | | Tue Feb 20 1996 12:34 | 53 |
|
Re: .0
I can't address the real problem, but I too am interested in
the whole story, and not just our press releases. I happened to
attend UniForum '96, so I picked up a copy of the AIM press
release. Here's whom won what awards:
--------------------------------------
Multiuser Shared Systems:
-------------------------
Best throughput performer:
< 25K Z-Server MX 133 Mhz (2 way) Zenith Data Systems
25-49K Z-Server MX 133 Mhz (4 way) Zenith Data Systems
50-149K AlphaServer 2100 5/250 Digital
> 150K AlphaServer 8400 5/350 Digital
Best Price/Performance Throughput
< 25K Prioris XL 5100DP Digital
25-49K Z-Server MX 133 Mhz (4 way) Zenith Data Systems
50-149K SNX 400/4 RS System Olivetti
> 150K CS1000 with AutoPilot Chen Systems
File Servers:
-------------
Best throughput performer:
< 25K Prioris LX 5120 Digital
25-49K Prioris ZX 5133MP/2 Digital
50-149K ProLiant 4500 5/133 (8 disk) Compaq
> 150K AlphaServer 2100 5/300 Digital
Best Price/Performance Throughput
< 25K Prioris LX 5120 Digital
25-49K Prioris ZX 5133MP/2 Digital
50-149K ProLiant 4500 5/133 (8 disk) Compaq
> 150K AlphaServer 2100 5/300 Digital
Workstations:
-------------
Best performer:
< 25K DEC 3000/600 Digital
> 25K AlphaStation 600 5/300 Digital
Best Price/Performance:
< 25K Indy R4400SC 200 Mhz SGI
> 25K ROSS hyperSPARC 133 Mhz Ross Technology
URL: http://www.aim.com
They have the full details on their web page as well.
Rick
|
| 4431.2 | | PERFOM::WALRATH | | Tue Feb 20 1996 15:51 | 9 |
|
I also understand this really doesn't address the underlying
complaint, but for raw competitive performance information, you can
try PERFOM::CSGPERF.
I believe we have a moderate supply of recent AIM booklets (they are
published quartarly) with all of the current numbers.
Dave
|
| 4431.3 | | PERFOM::WALRATH | | Tue Feb 20 1996 16:57 | 105 |
|
In fact, this was just put in a couple of conferences a few minutes
ago...
<<< VAXAXP::NOTES$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ALPHANOTES.NOTE;1 >>>
-< Alpha Support Conference - Digital Internal Use Only >-
================================================================================
Note 88.0 AIM's Spring 1996 Guide and Hot Iron Awards No replies
PERFOM::CSGPERF "CSD Performance Group" 92 lines 20-FEB-1996 15:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT ! HOT !
CSD Performance Group has just received 150 copies of AIM's Spring 1996
"UNIX System Price Performance Guide." These catalogs are great sales and
reference tools. To receive a free copy or copies, please write
PERFOM::CSGPERF or [email protected]. To ensure prompt delivery, include
your mailstop or actual postal address (only paper copies of the catalogs are
available).
CSD Performance Group has also updated their AIM reports WWW page.
Open location http://sdtad.zko.dec.com/pub/csdpg/aim_directory.html to ftp
files to your system.
And, CSD Performance Group has updated its on-line AIM directory.
PostScript-formatted files of Digital's and Digital's competitors' AIM
Certification Reports are stored at PERFOM::CSG_AIM.
PERFOM::CSG_AIM:AIM_DIRECTORY_INDEX.TXT lists what vendor and system
appear in what file. (You can also anonymous ftp to perfom.zko.dec.com or
16.31.80.5, cd to aim, and get the files you want.)
Finally, just in case you missed the "HOT" news,
AIM ANNOUNCED SPRING 1996 HOT IRON AWARDS; DIGITAL CAPTURED 11 OF 20 AWARDS!
AIM Technology announced the Spring Hot Iron Awards at UniForum in San
Francisco on February 14, 1996. AIM Benchmarks the fastest UNIX machines on
the market and determines the best machines in various categories. The current
winners are:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MULTIUSER SHARED SYSTEM MIX
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Throughput Performance
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Less than$25,000 -- Zenith Data Systems., Z-SERVER MX DP133
$25,000-$50,000 -- Zenith Data Systems., Z-SERVER MX (133MHz)
* $50,000-$150,000 - -Digital Equipment Corp., Digital AlphaServer 2100 5/250
* Over $150,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital AlphaServer 8400 5/350
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Price/Performance Throughput
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Less than$25,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital Prioris XL Server
5100DP
$25,000-$50,000 -- Zenith Data Systems., Z-SERVER MX (133MHz)
$50,000-$150,000 -- Ing. C. Olivetti & C. S.P.A.,Olivetti SNX 400/4 RS
Systema (6 Disk)
Over $150,000 -- CHEN Systems, CHEN Systems CS1000 w/ AutoPilot
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FILE SERVER MIX
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Throughput Performance
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Less than$25,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital Prioris LX 5120
* $25,000-$50,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital Prioris ZX 5133MP/2
$50,000-$150,000 -- Compaq Computer Corp., Compaq Proliant 4500 5/133
(8 Disk)
* Over $150,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital AlphaServer 2100 5/300
(3CPU)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Price/Performance Throughput
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Less than$25,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital Prioris LX 5120
* $25,000-$50,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital Prioris ZX 5133MP/2
$50,000-$150,000 -- Compaq Computer Corp., Compaq Proliant 4500 5/133
(8 Disk)
* Over $150,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital AlphaServer 2100 5/300
(3CPU)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GENERAL WORKSTATION MIX
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Performer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Less than $25,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Dec 3000 Model 600
* Over $25,000 -- Digital Equipment Corp., Digital AlphaStation 600 5/300
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Price Performer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Less than $25,000 -- Silicon Graphics Inc., SGI Indy R4400SC 200 MHz
Over $25,000 -- ROSS Technologies., ROSS HyperSPARC- SPARCstation 20 (133MHz)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please send any questions or comments about this posting to PERFOM::CSGPERF
or [email protected].
|
| 4431.4 | | tennis.ivo.dec.com::KAM | Kam WWSE 714/261.4133 DTN/535.4133 IVO | Wed Feb 21 1996 10:55 | 14 |
| I agree. To extend this I would like to see the IDC, Datapro, and
Dataquest reports on Digital that they supply to our competitors.
On-line are the reports regarding HP, IBM, Sun, and SGI, please include
DEC so we know what they're telling our competitors. This will allow us
to create better Marketing and Sales messages. Moreover, it will help
us better understand our weaknesses and customer perceptions.
Please include ALL winners so I can understand where we didn't do so
well. Providing where our competitors won doesn't pat them on the back
but helps educate us where we aren't doing so well. We don't look like
fools as we try to convince our Partners to sell into an area they know
they can't win.
|
| 4431.5 | the TRUTH is a powerfull weapon | LEXS01::GINGER | Ron Ginger | Wed Feb 21 1996 11:22 | 16 |
| This has been a sore spot with me for years. We have always filed to
understand the real power of our competition. Marketing sends Sales off
with an unrealistic view of the competiton.
Ask around inside DEC and you will find a large number of people that
are convinced Alpha is unquestioned as the fastest system in the world.
In my years in marketing, whenever I tried to put out balanced details
of competitive info, I got knocked down for 'being negative' or
'telling bad news'.
I would much prefer to go out to deal with a customer having a
realistic understanding of where I have strength,and where I have holes,
and where the competitoin has strength. Then I can try to keep the
customer focused my way, and be aware of when Im heading into a hole,
BEFORE I fall flat into it.
|
| 4431.6 | | tennis.ivo.dec.com::KAM | Kam WWSE 714/261.4133 DTN/535.4133 IVO | Wed Feb 21 1996 11:58 | 17 |
| Some Marketing Analysis indicated that you will NEVER get a customer to
move if you have a ME-TO-SOLUTION. You need to have a competitive
advantage 2X or 4X the performance. We saw this with the first
introduction of SPARC. The MicroVAX was approximately 1 MIP and the
SPARC was advertised as a 10 MIPS workstation, even though it actually
performed somewhere around 4-6 MIPS. BUNCHES of people justified the
migration from VMS to UNIX because of the competitive advantage of 2X
the performance.
Until the introduction of the UTLRA Sparc the Alpha, in benchmarks, has
shown more than 2X the performance than Super Sparc. Why didn't the
customers migrate back? Even when we're talking Sun UNIX to Digital
UNIX? Unix customers are like elephants - they never forgot. Digital
doesn't have a good relationship with the ISV's who do the application
porting. I don't know what it is???? Sun user's, like Mac user's, are
EXTREMELY loyal and it doesn't matter what you have - they're NOT
moving and especially Digital.
|
| 4431.7 | It's in between the lines | PERFOM::HENNING | | Wed Feb 21 1996 12:53 | 18 |
| .5 you are correct that it is extremely difficult to say "please do not
sell my computer into application x, sell it into y and z instead".
But you can learn to read between the lines to get this sort of info.
When Julie Porter and Tom Walker put out documents that include
sections on the lines of "HP claims mumble about Digital, our response is
such-and-such", you can generally infer that mumble is a weakness for
us.
Often mumble is only a PERCEIVED weakness, not a REAL weakness (like
in the days when competitors were saying "who needs 64 bits?"). But
it's what the competition will be using against you, so you have to
defend against it.
If you're not subscribing to Tom & Julie's lists, you should be.
/John Henning
CSD Performance Group
|
| 4431.8 | The real world | NQOS02::nqsrv426.nqo.dec.com::silverio | Brian Silverio | Wed Feb 21 1996 19:37 | 29 |
| The tone of the following note sounds hypercritial -- it is not meant to be.
If I take the time to rewrite it, I won't enter it!
----------
Quoted text->> Often mumble is only a PERCEIVED weakness, not a REAL weakness (like
If it makes the customer buy someone elses gear then the weakness is *REAL*.
It may not be a hardware/software/capability weakness. It may "just" be
a marketing weakness but it is REAL.
The way to be successful it to know who you are competing against and
how their products compare against ours for this customers unique
problem. Then we need to emphasize those positive points that our products
have where the competition is unable to respond.
To do this we need realistic data comparing products. Not everyone reads between
the lines in a report. (I'll bet most people don't even read the lines, never
mind between them.) When crunch time comes we need to be know what IBM and HP
and the others will be saying.
Some weeks ago a customer said to me: "All of you *explitive deleted* vendors
come in here and you all have the best UNIX and you all have perfectly
linear scaling. If you want to do business with me, start telling the
truth." -- So I did. And we made the sale. I was working for another
company at the time. One whos products are *INFERIOR* to Digitals.
Enough said.
|
| 4431.9 | Yes... but how do we change? | BIGUN::KEOGH | I choose to enter this note now. | Thu Feb 22 1996 01:11 | 11 |
| So we mostly violently agree. Current Digital behaviour/policy
does not provide the service we the field employees need.
But can anybody answer my original question : Who do I need to
say this to so it can be changed?
I haven't seen one reply defending the current position, and I know
because of the wide readership of this group that some of "They" whose
behaviour I would like to change are reading...
Can someone suggest the next step to improvement?
|
| 4431.10 | suggestion #1 | IOSG::BILSBOROUGH | SWBFS | Sun Feb 25 1996 11:32 | 22 |
|
It sounds like we should have a groups who's purpose is to know all
about our competitors. From software features to hardware performance.
If we have people who really know the competitors products then that'll help
us to know are stengths and weaknesses. It could also try and gather
information on what our competitors are saying that causes them to beat
us to the sale. When we lose a big sale they could contact the
customer and ask where we went wrong, we could learn from that and the
evidence could be used by senior management to learn too.
A group would help product managers know what features are done well
by our competitors and information about how we could do it better.
Alternatively what the competition does badly and we do or could do
well.
It seems that a lot of areas of Digital could benefit from such a group
and it certainly seems like a good investment.
You could say that all this kind of thing should be done by product
managers. Well maybe.
Mike
|
| 4431.11 | The PMs would be a good start. | BIGUN::KEOGH | I choose to enter this note now. | Sun Feb 25 1996 18:05 | 16 |
| Yes, I do believe that is the product manager's responsibility.
Ok, well call me crazy, but I kinda' feel that the product
manager should think and act as if the product is theirs,
and they are running a business dedicated to creating and selling
that product (within the bounds of what is best for Digital as
a whole).
If I walk down the street to a small software supplier or other
manufacturer, someone who has maybe 10-50 staff and less than a
handfull of products, I see the sort of behaviour that I am talking
about. They know their product's strengths and weaknesses. They know
the competition, and the marketplace for their product, and so they
can coach their sales force so they can respond to the competition.
How am I wrong?
|
| 4431.12 | Market Competitiveness | CHEFS::WELCHL | | Mon Feb 26 1996 11:16 | 10 |
| Moving the subject of competition on a little....
Is there anyone out there who can help me (or point me in the right
direction) towards an OBJECTIVE measure of business competitiveness.
The European market is said to differ markedly from country to country
- but with little data to back it up.
All help gratefully received and acknowledged!
Laurence Welch
|
| 4431.13 | | REDDWF::GIFFORD | The chickens are restless! | Thu Feb 29 1996 19:24 | 21 |
| This is a reply to Patrick (and anyone else in OZ).
We have recently negotiated with Ideas International for an unlimited internal use
license of the competative analysis tool.
This tool:
Runs on NT,WFW and 95.
Has all independent comparison data in the tool.
Is updated once a month.
Will allow you to (for example) to configure a machine, and it will tell
you what the competion will probably offer.
etc etc.
Call me in Sydney and I will give you a copy! (or at least get you one).
Alternatively call be and we can discuss it!
Stan.
5799.
|
| 4431.14 | Any chance of a copy for someone in PKO? | WHYNOW::NEWMAN | Installed Base Marketing - DTN 223-5795 | Mon Mar 04 1996 07:21 | 1 |
| Any chance I can get a copy of this? I am located in Maynard, MA @PKO
|