Conference 7.286::digital

    By the way, read 1338.2 for an interesting thought on this strain.
    

    How does one get "The Digital Leader" to read this article?
    

    RE: 1338.2
    
    Nice words from an ex-employee.

    From the inside cover:
    
    The Digital Leader, a bimonthly magazine for and about Digital's
    worldwide management team, is published by Strategic Communications: 
    Tom Fitzpatrick, Director of Strategic Communications, Chuck Boyer,
    Editor.  Please e-mail your comments or Flaming Memos for publication
    to AKOCOA::The_Editor or to The_Editor@AKO.  The editor's DTN phone
    number is 244-6514.  Copyright 1995 by Digital Equipment Corporation.

   My god, we really ARE pitching management as a core competency!

    
>    Pushing back at peers, at management at employees, even customers at
>    times is what makes us different from other companies

Is this statement based on:

 1. An analysis of how other companies work
 2. Comments from the article based on something
 3. Your personal comments

It assumes that there is no "push back" at other companies and everyone just
rolls over and plays dead.  I seriously doubt that and if this is the basis 
of the article it is probably flawed from the start.

    RE .6
    
    The comments on pushback are solely based on the content of the article
    as it appeared.  I don't agree with it either as I know there are a
    number of other companies that foster pushback amongst their employees
    as a way of driving a certain level of creativity.  So the statements
    in .0 are principally those of the article and are not of my own
    opinion.  I tried to set the tone of .0 as here is what's in the
    article, what do you people think?
    
    Mav

As in all things there is a time and place for everything, including
pushback.  As a manager, I prefer to invite dissent (pulling pushback?)
whenever possible, in order to stimulate creativity and seek alternate
and better solutions to day-to-day operational problems.  I question the
people I work with, and expect to be questioned (but gently). I think it
works.  

But, once a decision is reached, either by consenus (whenever possible)
or by mandate (if necessary), the time for discussion is over and it is 
time to do.

The reaction of new members to the group to this tactic is interesting.  At
first there is disbelief and silence, then come questions about what is going
on, and then, in most cases, participation.

In any event, questioning methods, processes, strategies, and tactics leads
to a better understanding of why things are the way they are.  If I don't
like the way things are, but do understand why they are like that, then I
have at least a fighting chance at affecting change.


MS

    
    
    As the bumper sticker says, Question Authority!
    
    Then they need to at least try to explain their strategies, 
    policies, procedures, etc, for us bottom feeders to understand,
    improve, and ultimately implement.
    
    rep .9
    
    >>> I question the people I work with, and expect to be questioned 
    >>> (but gently).
    
    From this does it follow that you also gently question your
    subordinates?   Or do they have to treat you gently only?
    
    >>> The reaction of new members to the group to this tactic is
    >>> interesting.  At first there is disbelief and silence, then 
    >>> come questions about what is going on, and then, in most cases,
    >>> participation. 
    
    I don't understand why there would be disbelief and silence.  Our job
    as engineers, technicians, etc, is to point out what we think is
    pertinent, and if the manager or team leader goes with it, to implement
    it, if not and they ask us to do it differently, that is also our job.
    
    >>>If I don't like the way things are, but do understand why they are 
    >>>like that, then I have at least a fighting chance at affecting change. 
    
    If you dictate what the answer is more than a few times, most of us
    will affect a change, and it is called a job change.  We all fit in
    the company differently.  The challenge is to know where you fit, 
    what you have to contribute, and then contribute it.  A manager's job
    is to recognize he/she has talented people under him/her (because
    he/she hired them, didn't he/she), and then LEAD them so they can 
    effectively do their jobs.  And then to reward them at Christmas time,
    for a job well done!  Yahoo!
    
    
    Just my $.02
    
    /art

Art,
    
    Thanks for your comments.

    >>> I question the people I work with, and expect to be questioned 
    >>> (but gently).
    
    |From this does it follow that you also gently question your
    |subordinates?   Or do they have to treat you gently only?

    This was meant as an inside joke.  I expect to receive as good as 
    I get, and do, believe me:)
    
    >>> The reaction of new members to the group to this tactic is
    >>> interesting.  At first there is disbelief and silence, then 
    >>> come questions about what is going on, and then, in most cases,
    >>> participation. 
    
    |I don't understand why there would be disbelief and silence.  Our job
    |as engineers, technicians, etc, is to point out what we think is
    |pertinent, and if the manager or team leader goes with it, to implement
    |it, if not and they ask us to do it differently, that is also our job.

    I asked one of newer members of the team to review this note string and
    the reply that I received was "Should have said absolute, stark-naked,
    terror".  People's reactions depend on their temperment and what they
    are used to.  Some organizations are top down, some are bottom up.  I
    try to ensure both approaches are at least tried on for size and feel.  
    I will often make outrageous statements (Dilbert is a good source of 
    material) in order to provoke thought and discussion.  For a first
    time viewer, I suppose this could be a shocking experience.
    
    >>>If I don't like the way things are, but do understand why they are 
    >>>like that, then I have at least a fighting chance at affecting change. 
    
    |If you dictate what the answer is more than a few times, most of us
    |will affect a change, and it is called a job change.  We all fit in
    |the company differently.  The challenge is to know where you fit, 
    |what you have to contribute, and then contribute it.  A manager's job
    |is to recognize he/she has talented people under him/her (because
    |he/she hired them, didn't he/she), and then LEAD them so they can 
    |effectively do their jobs.  And then to reward them at Christmas time,
    |for a job well done!  Yahoo!

    I often have to dictate policy and local tribal practices.  That's part
    of the job.  I have a responsibility to explain why such actions are for
    the good of all.  If I'm wrong too often, then the group pays for it 
    through attrition (we have very low attrition).   

    A manager's success is directly proportional to the success of the people
    who work for them.  My job is to remove obstacles to their success.  This
    is acheived through a combination of technical skill, leadership, 
    administration, building an environment where people can learn, have 
    fun, contribute to Digital's success, and be rewarded for it.

Shake the cage!

    
    rep -1
    
    Good Enough.  Keep up the good fight!
    
    /art

    Reminds me of my sister's management policy, for which I just heard
    many testimonials.  They all call it "creative disrespect," which as
    one of her colleagues describes it, means "everyone who works for Theo
    is expected not only to have a brain, but to use it.  It's not possible
    for any one person to have all the good ideas, and far faster progress
    towards common goals is possible if everyone is contributing ideas." 
    Seems to work!! :-)
    

    Creative Disrespect = Harmonious Discord.
    
    gc

RE: .the last few

I am reminded of the design meetings we had in Technical Languages and
Environments (a software group in Spit Brook, responsible for things like
DEC FORTRAN, PASCAL, DEBUG, PL/I, etc).  Everyone would get in one of the
conference rooms and toss out ideas.  Good, bad, indifferent, carefully
considered or just off-the-top-of-the-head, every idea was written down.
Then we all had fun ripping the ideas apart.

Usually what happened was that each idea would have some kernel of a
gleam of something which contributed to the final result, which was a
blend of everything that went on in the room.  But out of the meeting
we would usually end up with a good approach to solving the problem.

The fun part was watching new people encounter this approach for the first
time.  Watching one of the really senior people throw out some ill-considered
thought and then having a relatively junior person point out the flaws to
it, showed how the process can and does work.  The new people would usually
start out *very quiet*, but by the end of the meeting they were mixing it
up with everyone.  Because the IDEA was the important thing, not who said
it.  Programmer/Analyst I's and Senior Consulting Engineers can both have 
very good or completely bone-head ideas, and both received the same (lack
of) respect.  It was fun, and is one of the many things I miss about TLE.

-- Ken Moreau

Pushback works if and only if the supervisor/manager does NOT have
a vested interest in being right.  If this is the case, if the
manager's ego is engaged, then pushback is not only futile, it's 
job threatehing.
					andrew

    Yes, pushback in certain situations, not all, can be job threatening. 
    But who really wants to be associated with job threatening activity on
    a protracted long term basis.  I mean they call it the Fortune 1000 for
    a reason.  There are other options to consider.  I almost think that
    not pushing back on a point that you believe is "causeable" means you
    have given up.  If you really believe in something, if it is at your
    core then you will do everything in your power to influence the change. 
    There are times when you need to consider the political cost of pushing
    back.  But if the cause is greater then the cost most of the time you
    just can't help it.  You push back.  I do agree there comes a time when
    you have to accept the reality of the decision whether it's your boss
    making it or the group.  Your next choice since this is not the
    military here is to agree to step up and implement the decision or to
    quit and go elsewhere.
    
    There is a little middle ground but that's usually where the
    semi-trucks run fast.  Old Chinese proverb says:
    
    		"Walk left side road, walk right side road. 
    		 Walk middle of road, splat!"
    
    The question still begs answering, Do we as a company utilize push back
    in a way that benefits our enterprise or our individual growth within
    this enterprise.  If so, how and in what ways is it deemed acceptable
    to do this?
    
    Mav