Conference 7.286::digital

    
    Please make sure that you ask for the U.K. voltage (240V), not the
    US one (110V) and the power cords.
    
    

    Thanks for your input with reference to voltage and cables for Starion. 
    Unfortunatetly another mail came direct to me from MCS-TECM on the 
    Warranty and support issues, stating that Starion Warranty and support 
    are not valid in the UK. I will post the mail in this note for the benefit
    of others who may be interested in importing a Starion.
    
    Regards
    
    George
    
    
    
                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M
    
                                            Date:     17-Nov-1995 04:27pm
    GMT
                                            From:     RALPH NICHOLSON @HHL
                                                      NICHOLSONR
                                            Dept:     MCS - TECM
                                            Tel No:   7847 6731 / 0374
    824514
    
    TO:  George Charalambous @SBP             ( CHARALAMBOUS )
    
    Subject: FWD: UI: Starion Warranty
    
        George,
    
        I read your note in the Digital notes file. Attached is a mail I
        distributed about Starion Warranty, basically it is not valid in
        the UK. The PC's are switchable to 240V, but do not have the CE safety
        approval stamp.
    
        So it will work but you have no support, and MCS will charge to fix
        it.
                        
        Regards,
    
        Ralph.
    
    
                   I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M
    
                                            Date:     16-Nov-1995 12:48pm
    GMT
                                            From:     RALPH NICHOLSON @HHL
                                                      NICHOLSONR
                                            Dept:     MCS - TECM
                                            Tel No:   7847 6731 / 0374
    824514
    
    TO: See Below
    
    Subject: UI: Starion Warranty
    
    
        All,
    
        In the U.S. Digital sell a retail product line called Starion, this
        product is not sold or distributed by the PCBU in the UK.
    
        The Military  PX's (shops!) on some U.S. air force base's have started
        selling this product in the UK.
                                        
        The warranty on these products is NOT VALID in the UK, if a call is
        logged on any of the Starion range the customer MUST be referred back
        to the supplying dealer. Military Sales are currently going through
        qualification to become an Authorised Warranty Service Provider and
        will shortly be able to provide service.
    
        If a customer requests warranty service from Digital this must be on a
        per-call basis, note that any material required will have to be sourced
        from the U.S.
    
        Please distribute this mail as necessary.
    
        If you have any questions  about this please call me.
    
        Regards,
    
        Ralph Nicholson.
                                                                        

    re basenote.
    Read 4271.* and ask the PCBU why there is no encouragement to use
    their product in Europe-or go buy a Starion anyway and sue for
    support..

    CE marking is closer to FCC than safety, but it is important. In the
    UK, after 1st January, people selling stuff without CE mark risk fines
    of �5000 (say $7k5), 3 months jail, or bankruptcy. Plus another fine
    (�600?) for each box not CE-marked. How many back street PC builders
    know ? How many will care ?

    ( sound of soapbox being stood on..)
    
    Why not ask the PCBU to *sell* the damn things in Europe ? I looked at
    the Starions (and the Aptivas, Presarios..) in a US store just a few
    days ago. The only one I can't buy back home is the Starion. Sad.
    
    
    AW

    Thanks for all your inputs on subject 4284.0. It is clear now that
    importing a Starion into the UK is not a viable proposition. If one does
    so, then there will be problems with support and product approvals.
    
    It is a shame that such a high specification product, which is
    reasonably priced, has not been designed for a wider market. It is an 
    opportunity missed and perhaps the PCBU will think again in extending 
    the marketing of the product to other parts of the world.
                                 
    G.CH
    
    

>    CE marking is closer to FCC than safety, but it is important. In the

  What does CE stand for?
  I hope we didn't knowingly design the Starion to not meet CE standards. 

    
    "CE" is a conformity mark, applicable to the European Union.
    
    A previous noter is correct, it is mandatory to have the CE mark on
    our computing equipment sold into Europe by 1-January-1996.  Digital
    has been complying and CE-marking our products since the EMC Directive
    came into effect for voluntary compliance a few years ago.
    The EMC Directive becomes mandatory on 1-January-1996.
    
    Another previous noter was also correct regarding safety requirements
    for CE.  We have been incorporating GS licenses in our Declarations of
    Conformity for CE compliance since 1-January-1995.  Safety compliance
    becomes mandatory on 1-January-1997, which is why we've started now.
    
    The Starion product line may not have been targeted for European sales,
    in which case they would not have considered CE compliance since they
    would not have planned to have their product travel across the pond.
    
    The product manager listed in APPIX for the Starions is William Landers,
    in AKO, and I suggest you contact him if you want to pursue getting
    Starions into the European marketplace.
    
    Regards, Sue Camber
             Corporate Regulatory Domains, Engineering and Test
                                                             
    

    I'd be interested to know how a clone assembler, who cobbles together a
    mish-mash of ever-differing bits and pieces, is going to obtain CE
    certification on his "product"...
    
    Laurie.

    I've been told that the small scale clone assembler will have to use CE
    certified parts and will not be able to include 'communications equipment'
    in new PC's. 'Communications equipment' being modems, tv tuners etc,
    but these could be fitted after the systems had been sold.
    
    Brian

    Oh well, that should push costs up nicely...
    
    Laurie$Euro_Sceptic.

    It's the system that needs certifying, not just the components. Anyway
    it's hard to CE mark a motherboard. You can certify the system either
    by a "paperwork" method or by a "real life test" method. There is a
    requirement to prove "due diligence". Whether a backstreet assembler
    will bother is moot. What will happen if they don't will be
    interesting; will the big ones (majors like Gateway 2000 Europe would
    be crazy not to conform) start stirring it up?
    
    I'm not representing an expert here; I just have resellers in e.g.
    process automation some of whom are apparently just now beginning to
    worry about this kind of thing (with < 8 weeks to go!).

    Well, I build a system about once a month, from clone parts bought at
    the cheapest price anywhere I can find them. I don't do it as a
    business, I do it for friends and colleagues to help them keep costs
    down. I have yet to see a CE marked component. How on earth a system
    can be CE marked when the components will vary all the time is anyone's
    guess. Let's hope that this stupid rule is ignored. However, if past
    experience is anything to go by, the UK will enforce the ruling with
    zeal, and the rest of Europe *will* ignore it. It will not and does not
    protect the consumer, but it will increase the costs of a PC
    significantly, and will put smaller people who do the same as me, but
    for a living, out of business.
    
    For companies such as DEC, it will also increase costs, making a swift
    change of components almost impossible, and will delay the
    time-to-market of new technologies. Typical Euro-meddling for the sake
    of it.
    
    Laurie$Euro_sceptic_in_Brussels.

    
    
    Boards, and other internal devices such as disk drives, which are sold
    into the EU as stand-alone pieces, are also subject to the CE-Marking
    requirements.  The theory here being that CE compliant pieces A, B, C,
    and D when assembled create CE compliant system E.
    
    

    I've spoken to a friend of mine who is a box-builder in the UK. He
    honestly doesn't know what to do. He says that compliance-checking
    takes 6 months, and costs 600 UKP. That's ok if one is making teddy
    bears or something, but in the PC world, even a week's delay is a loss
    of money. Components change, literally, daily. Honestly, this
    ridiculous rule will absolutely kill the PC business in the UK. In the
    unlikely event that the rest of the EC takes any notice of this law,
    it'll bring the whole business crashing down. Think about it, for PCs,
    or any computers, the idea that one can control and test all internal
    components *and the assembled units* like this is ridiculous. The pace
    of change is so fast, and Far-Eastern suppliers rise and fall almost
    daily, component supplies ebb and flow all the time, it will completely
    ruin any chance of keeping up with developments, and will ham-string
    suppliers and builders. I'd go so far as to say it will bankrupt many
    firms. The penalties for failure to comply are a 5000 UKP fine and/or 1
    month in prison.
    
    Laurie$Euro_sceptic.

>>    ... the idea that one can control and test all internal
>>    components *and the assembled units* like this is ridiculous. 

We do this routinely for all the products that we design. We try to avoid
component subsitutions during the production phase, because they are risky.
When we need to switch component types during production phase, we frequently
need to do some testing to verify interoperability. We don't do this because
we're perfectionists. We do it because experience has taught us that we
can rapidly pile up a lot of non-working junk in the factory if we're not
paying attention.

This is basically what makes the difference between a reliable product that can
be built in volume, and the clone product that may need some trial and error to
get it working.  I'm not knocking locally built clones. I've bought two of them
myself. But it isn't practical to build equipment that way in volume.

As far as CE, FCC, etc.: people who build untested clones are the spectrum
equivalent of an oil truck driving around with random leaks. Fortunately,
the "pollution" put out by this equipment disappears immediately after
emission, rather than seeping into our ground water. This isn't really a
victimless crime, though. TV and radio reception is compromised by these
polluters, but usually the perpetrators are not even found, let alone
prosecuted.

If the cottage clone industry can't live within the government's defined
regulatory environment, it will ultimately be driven out of business. The
level of benign neglect on the part of the regulators will undoubtedly
play a key role here.