Conference 7.286::digital

    Do you mean Java, now Jawa?
    
    I've found much Java info on Sun's home page.
    
    				-John

ABBOTT::JAVA was just announced today.  Hit <KP7>

V2.0 of Netscape is supposed to support Java, but I just heard at a meeting 
this morning that the V2.0 version of netscape, on alphas does not yet support
Java because Java contains some 32 bit dependancies that someone at Sun should
be working on! V2.0 of netscape on 32 bit platforms is supposed to support Java.

[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    It is called JAVA as in coffee, not jawa as in yezdi :-)
    
    Check out newly started ABBOTT::JAVA

Nor is it a small alien who makes a living salvaging and refurbishing robots and
droids!

    re .4:
    
    �It is called JAVA as in coffee, not jawa as in yezdi :-)
    
    Jawa is (was) also a Czekh motorcycle. I hope the quality of the
    language is better...
    
    There's also some discussion in INTERNET_TOOLS.
    

    Anybody knows where Jawa originated?  Those were really popular
    motorcycle in India.  Few years ago, they changed their name to Yezdi
    and became even more popular.  But my memory is very dated.
    
    Bringing this discussion back to interpreted languages, I am disappointed 
    that Python did not catch on.
    
    - Vikas

    Borland, Spyglass to License Java
    
    INFORMATIONWEEK, November 20, page 20.
    

    
    large customer ($$, not weight..) says ".. Java gives me the very thin
    client opportunity, that will allow me to ditch all this PC nonsense,
    and allow me to get on with designing apps to support my business,
    rather than worrying about 'managing' the client/server infrastructure,
    that is costing me a fortune...".
      
    Don't know if he is right. What if he is.. ?
    
    
    anyways, over to Abbott:: I go.
    
    
    
    AW
    

    The latest edition of Newsweek highlights SUN's JAVA in the Technology
    section.  An interesting write-up slanted toward SUN and away from
    MicroSoft.  I guess some people dream of living a MicroSoft-free life!

I had a two-cycle Jawa motorcycle (Czech manufacture) in the mid-60s.  Very
reliable, easy to repair.

___Pete

    re .11: Me too... or actually, I had a scooter. Looked like a pig
    (literally). Apart from the (two-stroke) engine occasionally starting
    backwards (when the ignition wasn't correctly adjusted) it worked ok
    until it caught fire.

    now THAT's what I call reliable!
    
    ;^)

    re .12
    
    
    The *original* (very) HOT Jawa...

    re .12
    
    Was it certified for Trans-Oceanic flight to Indonesia or ......... Java?

RE: .15

	Only the ones with winglets.

							mike

    re .15: I wasn't anywhere near an ocean - but luckily, I was just a few
    meters from a small driver, into which I happily drove... it suitably
    cooled down my hot Jawa.

    re .18:
    
  > re .15: I wasn't anywhere near an ocean - but luckily, I was just a few
  > meters from a small driver, into which I happily drove... it suitably
  > cooled down my hot Jawa.
    
   Small or large, that driver was probably a little upset with you

    re .19: as you probably guessed, an extra 'd' slipped in somehow...
    

Back to the topic of Java the language...

--

Date: 17-Jan-1996:15:40
X-UIDL: 821911462.000
From: [email protected] (Marc Nozell)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Internal Java Web Page

Let me know what you think.

-marc

          <<< LJSRV2::LP$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]INTERNET_TOOLS.NOTE;3 >>>
                              -< Internet Tools >-
================================================================================
Note: 3029.10      Note on JAVA from Rose Ann Giordano - VP Inter    10 of 10
GYRO::eps1.zko.dec.com::nozell "[email protected]    25 lines  17-JAN-1996 15:38
                     -< One Stop Shopping for JAVA info >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope to make this "one stop shopping" for Java information.  It is best
viewed with at least Netscape V2.0beta5.

        http://ibgzko.zko.dec.com/nozell/java

This is my effort to pull together all the information I've collected
about Java and make it available primarily for those in the IBG
Systems Integration Group, but also for the Digital community at
large.

This is still very much a work in progress, but comments are
cheerfully accepted.

-marc
[email protected]
Internal: http://ibgzko.zko.dec.com/nozell
External: http://www.en-garde.com/~nozell

    The following was extracted from the Hotwired Web site.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
        Picture CNN on your desktop: headlines, sports, weather, and a
        customized stock ticker scrolling by ... all current, all the time.
        Forget Netscape - you don't even need a browser. And believe it or not,
        there's a version for Macs (remember those?).
    
        Get Dave Winer's scoop on what he calls "the most compelling app 
        I've ever seen for a personal computer," in DaveNet.
    
            http://www.hotwired.com/davenet/
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    So, I was curious, jumped there and this is what it says:
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
        CNN on Your Desktop
    
    
        I saw an incredible product the other day. 
    
        It's like CNN on your desktop: beautiful color
        windows, 1996-ish design. Very well executed. 
    
        A hybrid app. Part client, part content, part server. 
    
        It's the most compelling app I've ever seen for a
        personal computer. 
    
        Information stays current. Weather forecasts scroll
        through the window as on CNN, only prettier. A
        beautiful green-on-black stock ticker runs at the
        bottom of the window. 
    
        An always-visible menu (like a Netscape frame) gives
        lots of choices. Sports, financial, weather, news
        headlines, and presumably lots of other categories. 
    
        It's immediate (like email), but impersonal (like the
        Web). It's customizable. If you're interested in just
        five stocks, that's all you see. If you only care about the
        weather in Boston, Austin, and Detroit, that's what
        you get. Just what you want. Always current. 
    
        The content is free, the connection is free, the
        software is free. Supported by advertising. 
    
        It's a total end run around Netscape and Sun. You
        don't need, nor would you want, a Web browser to
        access their information. What they provide is much
        more functional, faster, and prettier. 
    
        It's called PointCast. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been
        announced. This may be a scoop. My demo was unofficial. 
    
        They have a Web site (http://www.pointcast.com), 
        but they don't talk about the software at the site. 
    
        You can get a lot from reading the tea leaves, though.
        Macintosh and Windows versions of their client are in
        development. The Windows version is further along.
        They're building on Microsoft and Metrowerks C++,
        OLE, and OpenDoc. Their Mac client will be
        scriptable. They're in Cupertino, California. The
        people are from Adobe, Ziff-Davis, Digital
        Equipment. Investors are Merrill, Pickard, Anderson
        & Eyre (MPAE) and Mohr, Davidow. Chuck Geschke,
        the president of Adobe, is on their board. 
    
        You can sign up to be a beta tester from their home
        page. I did. 
    
        Lesson learned: we've all been head tripping (again!)
        with standards and FUD while these people have been
        doing the end run - using C++ instead of Java - and
        fulfilling the promise, maybe years ahead of the
        technology path that Netscape and Sun are on. 
    
        It's a great time to be alive! 
    
        Dave Winer
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    And from the PointCast site...
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
          Gregory P. Hassett is co-founder and Vice President of
          Engineering of PointCast. Mr. Hassett oversees all aspects of
          PointCast's product development and engineering, and
          directly manages the engineering staff. Mr. Hassett is
          responsible for new product definition and development, and
          was responsible for PointCast's first product architecture and
          design. Prior to founding PointCast, Mr. Hassett was a
          Software Engineer for Digital Equipment Corporation, where
          he was responsible for the implementation of software
          control systems for high-density interconnect equipment. At
          age 12, Mr. Hassett participated in the birth of retail software
          distribution, selling several TRS-80 computer games he
          authored through such retailers as Egghead Software.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Anyone know Greg?  Very curious stuff...

My goodness - I remember Greg Hassett when we hired him at the ripe age of
14 to do VAX FORTRAN testing.  His dad was a manager in our organization.
(We had to explain to the US Government that his job didn't involve heavy
lifting.)

				Steve

    I sure do remember Greg.   He was a friend of mine when he worked here
    and we exchange e-mail now and then.   Once in a great while he stops
    in for a visit when he's in town.   His sister still works here
    as a contractor.
    
    Needless to say, he's one very bright guy.   
    
    His first product, Journalist was IMHO a brilliant idea.  When he first
    described it, one of the first thoughts to enter my mine was to ask him
    to be involved either via "capital" or even joining.  Although I never
    asked.  It was one of the few new startup ideas I have ever heard that
    I would've even considered.
    
    Not surprised that he's extending that to the internet.  The ideas
    of Journalist flow very naturally into this new thing.
    
    My favorite story on Greg was that he had heard that I played guitar.
    He had just started playing and wanted to spend some lunch hours with
    me showing him some things.   One thing he wanted to learn was a piece
    that I would normally consider well beyond the ability of ANYONE who
    had only been playing for a little while ("Dust in the Wind" by Kansas)
    and tried to talk him out of it.   Greg insisted that I show him it.I
    did.  One week later, he came back and played it for me... perfectly!
    
    	db

Yeah, but could he play "Stairway to Heaven"?

Wait a minute, this isn't the Guitar notesfile is it?

Nevermind

Rick 8^)

    >      Gregory P. Hassett is co-founder and Vice President of
    >      Engineering of PointCast. Mr. Hassett oversees all aspects of
    >      PointCast's product development and engineering, and
    >      directly manages the engineering staff. Mr. Hassett is
    >      responsible for new product definition and development, and
    >      was responsible for PointCast's first product architecture and
    >      design. Prior to founding PointCast, Mr. Hassett was a
    >      Software Engineer for Digital Equipment Corporation, where
    >      he was responsible for the implementation of software
    >      control systems for high-density interconnect equipment. At
    >      age 12, Mr. Hassett participated in the birth of retail software
    >      distribution, selling several TRS-80 computer games he
    >      authored through such retailers as Egghead Software.
    
    I just ran into this.  I worked with Greg at Digital Cupertino (site
    UCF) on the "high-density interconnect equipment" project (the birth
    and death of the VAX 9000 MCUs) until we went, uh, belly up.  It's good
    to hear his business venture is expanding...
    
    --Ron
    

It this why we didn't endorse/liscense Java? (We did endorse JavaScript). 

	In short, Sun has "hooked" the industry on Java and is now 
introducing a RISC architecture optimized for Java. Pretty slick on their 
part. Pterry underhanded for early adopters of Java who have RISC 
architectures of their own.

----
SUN INTROS WHOLE NEW RISC ARCHITECTURE -  FOR JAVA
(February 6th 1996) While the rest of the world was leaping to
endorse its Java programming language Sun Microsystems was holding
its trump card up its sleeve. Now it has played it - announcing an
entirely new processor architecture designed specifically to run
Java. The company is claiming that the new processors will run Java
code three to five times faster than conventional chips - and if the
language takes off in the way that everyone thinks it might, Sun will
have stolen a march on the industry.  It is an audacious move: with
the one announcement Sun has managed to introduce a new RISC
architecture without seeming to damage its commitment to SPARC. It is
also touting the silicon/Java combo at everything from embedded
processors in cellular phones to graphical workstations. Sun has
never managed to get a foothold in either the embedded or consumer
markets, could this be its chance?

The company is giving very little away about the internal
architecture of the new processor family, other than to say that it
implements the Java virtual machine quite closely. This means that
the effort required to run a Java interpreter is significantly
reduced. Expect there to be support for Java's stack-based operations
in silicon. Sun has gone as far as to rename its SPARC Technology
business 'Sun Microelectronics' and while it says it is absolutely
committed to SPARC, and while the new Java processors will not run
Solaris, there is no doubt that the new line could eventually
supplant SPARC if Java becomes a popular language for writing
corporate or server based applications. 

The company forecasts  a networked Java microprocessor market of
$15,000m by the year 2000 - and that is about the size of the entire
Unix server market today. That number includes Java in things like
cellular phones, television set-topboxes and Personal Digital
Assistants as well as more conventional computers. 

The Java family starts out with three lines - the picoJava core,
microJava embedded device and UltraJava processor.  The picoJava core
implement's Sun's Java Virtual Machine and the company says the core
will enable sub-$25 Java-optimised processors to be created to go
into cellular phones, printers and other consumer and peripheral
products.  The core will be licensed out to interested chip designers
manufacturers in much the same way that Sun has licensed the SPARC
architecture in the past. PicoJava should be ready for licensing in
June. 

Sun will embed PicoJava into its own first two implementations:
microJava and UltraJava. MicroJava  adds input-output, memory,
communications and control functions, creating processors costing $25
to $100, and Sun is targeting the likes of  games  and network 
controllers. The first microJava samples are expected early next
year. 

UltraJava is aimed squarely at the top-of-the-line multimedia and 3D
graphics-type applications. The first UltraJavas, from $100, are
expected in late 1997. This is where the Java processors could
compete against Sun's own SPARC processors. But most importantly, if
Java becomes the programming language of choice for consumer or
business applications, Sun may be able to lever its processor
technology into the home or onto the desktop.

As we went to press it wasn't immediately clear whether companies
like Silicon Graphics, which have endorsed Java were aware of Sun's
silicon-based plans before when they adopted the programming
language. If they did not, then some of them might be smarting a bit.
Sun, of course points out that any other processor manufacturer could
implement a Java-specific processor just as it has done.  While this
is true, no other chip maker would have known about Java as soon as
Sun's own designers. The company has so far adamantly refused to say
how long it had been working on the new chip designs. 
(c) PowerPC News - free by mailing [email protected]

	All this and MORE from a processor that won't be around for over
	2 years!  Now THAT's marketing!

	I wonder if we could get Java working nicely on StrongARM?

							mike

    >All this and MORE from a processor that won't be around for over 2
    >years!  Now THAT's marketing!
     
    Huh?  Which processor won't be aroung for over 2 years?  I thought it
    mentioned June availability.
    
    >I wonder if we could get Java working nicely on StrongARM?
    
    Surely, but considering where we are today in terms of licencing of the
    Java, you can't expect anything but leisurely response from the powers
    to be of this corporation.
    
    Compare this to the 64-bit lead that Digital had for years, but when
    the world talks about 64-bit, they talk about Ultra-SPARC.
    
    - Vikas
    - Vikas

	RE: .29

	Where does it mention June availability? Not in .27 unless I'm
	spacing it. Samples aren't available till late next year and
	the UltraJava chip till late 97. We have StrongARM just about
	ready to go I think. Certainly have samples.

							mike

Isn't marketing wonderful?  "June" was mentioned, but not as
the date for availability of any hardware...

> PicoJava should be ready for licensing in June.

This means that semiconductor manufacturers (such as TI,
Fujitsu, ...) could start designing a chip.  How long will that
take?  Well, how long will it take Sun?

> Sun will embed PicoJava into its own first two implementations:
> microJava and UltraJava... The first microJava samples are expected
> early next year. 

... with production quantities six months later?

> The first UltraJavas, from $100, are expected in late 1997.

re: Note 4276.29 by HELIX::SONTAKKE
    
    
> Compare this to the 64-bit lead that Digital had for years, but when
> the world talks about 64-bit, they talk about Ultra-SPARC.

Where do you live?    

    Take a look at Embedded Systems Programming, Feb 96.  There is  special
    section devoted to Single Board Computers.  A special article thereinis
    on 64-bit SBCs.
    
    - Vikas

> I wonder if we could get Java working nicely on StrongARM?

Sure... as long as you don't mind emulating floating point.


- jeff