Conference 7.286::digital

    waiting for obligatory spate of "i hate rush" replies...

    I don't like Rush's attitude (ego), but I love to listen to him and I
    agree with him often.  I'm glad we're advertizing on his show.
    
    At least he isn't talking about SUN when he mentions H-P and who wants
    to hear about poor performance on a Digital product right after a
    Digital ad?  Let him explain his H-P problems for a while...

    A lot of people who would not listen to save their lives, don't like
    what he says.
    

    last time I heard him, he was pushin' Macs.
    
    Mark (not Brad)

    Big MACS ?

You don't have to like his politics to see an opportunity to provide our 
products more exposure.  Yes he uses a Mac, and proclaimed he didn't know 
much beyond the bounds of that Mac.  But here is where someone in the 
Internet Business Group, NY office, media expertise center, advertising or 
all should be leaping to see how we might help this prospect who has the ear 
of many customers and potential customers.

Let's educate him on connectivity and let him proclaim what a great service 
Digital provided him with his own Alpha Server, or our pilot program 
service to put him on one of our own servers etc.

If we can do election web pages, proclaim to be the media server giant,  we 
should be able to help out a media giant get his message out over cyberspace 
better then anyone.  Couple that with ads on a web page and he should 
chomping at the bit to be a part of it.  That's his business, selling ads on 
his part of the airwaves, now cyberspace.

Think opportunity, not how this might offend your "political" sensibilities. 
 For whatever you "feel" about him, he is listended to and watched daily by a 
large group of "buyers".

re .3

>     A lot of people who would not listen to save their lives, don't like
>     what he says.

                   This is an impossible statement.




   Or is that the point? :-)

� Why are we the advertiser and HP gets to do their www page and gets a 
� reference from the host?

I presume that some ads on Rush's show originate with Rush's network and some
with the local station.  It is possible the Digital ads are a national buy and
placed on local stations during Rush's show.

Paul

    re: .8. 
    
    sharp Kevin, sharp
    
    
    

    oops,,,,note collision = lst means .7
    

    Last I worked in the field, I had a boss at NYO which was IN THE SAME
    BLDG as the EIB� Netwoik...
    
    One hopes that a salescall has already been made....??????
    
    ======
    �EIB :== Excellence In Broadcasting (sic)
    

      I contacted someone in internet sales over a month ago
    about Rush wanting to go on-line.  
    
      I guess it was only going to be one system, so we
    could not do the sale internal.  :-)
    
    Darren
    

    But let's focus on the real story here:
    
    		THE TIES ARE REALLY COOL!
    
    Check them out
    
    

    As I mentioned in the Web Sites topic, Don Imus is looking for
    help in purchasing an Internet Server and getting on the Web.
    He's syndicated throughout the U.S. Could be a good opportunity
    for some publicity if we could provide the server.
    
    Jim C.
    

    We should do this a t no cost for the exposure, Howard Stern
    uses an IBM and always gives IBM nice plugs.

    I just saw in the Boston Globe today the URL for Don Imus's homepage.
    Looks like someone beat us to it (maybe).
    
    Debbie
    

    It's an unofficial site. 
    
    Jim C.
    

re: Think opportunity

I see the plug for Digital coming right after the rant about "feminazi's"
followed by a diatribe about how minority rights and environmental concerns 
putting men out of work.

    Well, I would think that his audience is good target market.
    
    I'd expect to reach a lot of people who are success-oriented, business
    focused, professional. Achievers.
    
    In other words, the kind of people who would use DEC, er, Digital 
    computers. 
    
    If you want to reach the artsy/fartsy/liberal crowd that are his antithesis,
    advertise somplace else (If you think you can lure them away from their
    Macintoshes).

    re .19
    
 <       I'd expect to reach a lot of people who are success-oriented,
 <   business focused, professional. Achievers.
    
  You have very high expectations.

    Check Arbitron before you cast aspersions.
    
    Agree with the man, disagree with the man, but people would kill for
    his demographics.
    
    All you Rush haters out there check them out first, then report back. 
    Compare his audience with Digital's target market, then make a
    judgement.
    
    $0.02 for thought
    
    gc 

    
    Or, one could just listen for some reasonable length of time,
    while paying close attention to the ads that run on his show.
    That should tell the tale.
    
    Dennis
    

    Re: .20
    
    Ben,
    
    You don't like Rush?
    
    gc

    gary....
    
      His pizza commercial was OK, but Ivana and Donald Trump's commercial
    - now that's entertainment!!
    
    Ben

The guy rose to power by telling his audience that it's
justified to hate.  That it's correct to think that 
minorities and women are stealing jobs away from better 
qualified white guys.

He has a right to free speech.  But I don't think Digital 
should start paying him to do it.  I don't think 
we can afford to be associated with his unbelievably severe
political stance.

re: .21
Are you saying that Digital should disregard any ethical
concerns when deciding who to support as an advertiser?
The demographics may look good on paper, but who are we
alienating?  (women, minorities, environmentalists, civil
rights advocates and anyone who cares about the poor)

What if the David Duke show had desirable demographics?
How about Green Peace?

-Paul

        Re:

>   <<< Note 4268.26 by AIAG::WISNER "any thought can be the beginning..." >>>
>                        -< but who are we alienating? >-
>
>
>The guy rose to power by telling his audience that it's
>justified to hate.  That it's correct to think that 
>minorities and women are stealing jobs away from better 
>qualified white guys.

    Paul, Rush didn't rise to POWER.  He holds no office other than his
    businesses.  He makes no Policy for the PUBLIC.  He just reports.  A
    more appropriate description (instead of ROSE TO POWER) would be
    became a successful Radio Personality.

    To address how he got there:  Where and WHAT did Rush say to justify
    HATE.  I'm asking for specifics (meaning exact words in CONTEXT) not
    just a label out of context (such as Wacko Environmentalist).  Give us
    an example IN CONTEXT.

    When did Rush say that minorities and women are stealing jobs from
    better qualified white people?  Again, a misrepresentation of what
    Rush has said.  I'm sure I know where you got that.  It's an out of
    context quote from one of many of Rush's dialogs on EEO and AA, where
    Rush stated that Because of the laws, a more qualified person MAY not
    get that job, because of EEO and AA.  No where does Rush blame it
    on Minorities or Women nor does he advocate hate...

>
>He has a right to free speech.  But I don't think Digital 
>should start paying him to do it.  I don't think 
>we can afford to be associated with his unbelievably severe
>political stance.

    You have a right to your opinion on what you think Digital should
    do, but that opinion may not be the best business sense, especially
    since it is based in NON FACT and your apparent political bias against
    his conservative views.  My OPINION is that his conservative views
    are right on...  I'm not some fanatic that wants to go shoot everyone
    and overthrow the government, or kick all minorities and women out
    or the workforce, or kill all the whales.  I'm an average guy with a
    family trying to make a buck and support my family and help my
    community.  Thats the type of audience that Rush has...

>
>re: .21
>Are you saying that Digital should disregard any ethical
>concerns when deciding who to support as an advertiser?

    NOPE!  We should be very concerned as to who we deal with, since it
    is a reflection on our character as well...

>The demographics may look good on paper, but who are we
>alienating?  (women, minorities, environmentalists, civil
>rights advocates and anyone who cares about the poor)

    The only one that we will be alienating are those that are misinformed
    and those that hate his politics, IF their hate is so strong that it
    causes them to discount good products from a great company.
>
>What if the David Duke show had desirable demographics?
>How about Green Peace?
>
    As I stated above.  We should be careful of who we associate with.  Our
    character is reflected in who we associate with.


    Jim Morton

Please, let's not discuss how each of us agrees or disagrees with what Rush
Limbaugh says.  That discussion belongs elsewhere.

Paul, co-moderator Digital

    re: .28
    
    In all due rspect, Paul, if we are discussing promotional strategy and
    tactics, then the "collateral baggage" that a certain vehicle
    (Limbaugh, in this case) is fair game...to a degree.  If we want to
    debate conservative vs. liberal governmental philosophy (whatever the
    h*** that means), then you are correct.  Another string is appropriate.
    
    re: .26
    
    The direct answer to what I infer as your main premise is "No, I do not
    believe that you can ignore the context in which your promotional
    message is delivered.  
    
    For example, I have no problem whatsoever with Nike using the Statue of
    Liberty in their ads.  I find it abhorrent that Virginia Slims does so. 
    Don't try to apply logic to my opinion, there is none.
    
    Regarding Limbaugh directly.  I do not draw the same conclusions as do
    you.  The appeal that I have for the man is his ability to frame tough
    questions.  As I said, we can agree or disagree with his conclusions,
    but we must respect the questions.
    
    As for the character of our desired audience, don't we want people who
    will ask illuminating questions, such as "Tell me why Digital isn't on
    the downward slide?", or "Why should I buy from a company that laid off
    my neighbors?"
    
    Tough questions requiring answers, which are subject to debate.
    
    And lastly,  as the subject of another Notes string pursues, isn't
    pushing back an admirable trait that we value here in Digital?...and
    isn't Limbaugh's entire empire based upon pushing back against
    conventional political thinking?
    
    $0.02
    
    gc
    

� if we are discussing promotional strategy and tactics, then the "collateral
� baggage" that a certain vehicle (Limbaugh, in this case) is fair game...to a
� degree.  If we want to debate conservative vs. liberal governmental philosophy
� (whatever the h*** that means), then you are correct.

Your point is well taken.  Rush Limbaugh angers many people, but is basically a
radio entertainer.  People like G. Gordon Liddy and others are farther to the
right, and I *would* have a problem with Digital ads appearing on their programs
or those that took extreme views on the other side of the political spectrum.

Paul

    ethics (rather, "fairness in advertising") can cut both ways.  some
    people have a problem with rush, but have no qualms at all about
    stuffing our ads between others selling beer or using (un)veiled sexual
    refs to sell shavers.  heck - why should DEC advertise on TV at all,
    given the mindless drivel and "unbiased" reporting that are constantly
    shown?
    
    if the goal is to advertise, do it where the demographics dictate.  if
    the goal is to play politics, forget advertising altogether and throw
    the money at some PAC.

    BTW,
    
    I finally checked out WWW.Rushties.com...
    
    Lousy backgrounds, well designed logic..
    
    $40 bucks for an all silk, made in America tie....not bad!
    
    For that price, he must be violating child labor laws ;-)
    
    gc

I've only listened to Rush a few times to better understand what
all the attention was about.

  Rush did not gain his popularity by aiding people in their
  sincere search for truth.  On the contrary, much of his appeal
  is based on his ability to belittle or poke fun at the opposing
  point of view through clever mis-representation.

If this is the kind of political dialogue you believe in,
the choice is yours, and so are the consequences.

Me?  I don't take him too seriously.  Besides, anyone who likes Macintosh
can't be all bad :-)

- Peter

    Rush has a daily nationwide audience of 20M+ listeners.  It's foolish
    to not advertise on his show.
    
    Mike

>    Rush has a daily nationwide audience of 20M+ listeners.  It's foolish
>    to not advertise on his show.

By that logic, we should advertise on Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

    and we'd probably sell more computers, if we did.
    
    

    re: .35
    
    remember DEMOGRAPHICS...it's not only how many, but whom, also.
    
    gc

    Yeah, one group is much smarter than the other...
    
    				-John

    
    
    RE: .38  You should have signed your note Ron..... :')
    
    

    
    I think a point is being missed.  From the character of ads on 
    Rush's show and his callers, he clearly is listened to by those
    who are most likely to be in their own business or thinking of
    same.  By discussing computer technology and the Internet often,
    his views would be credible to those listeners.  Wouldn't we
    like to become the favored supplier to those with the entrepernurail
    (sp?) spirit?
    
    P.S.
    
    Rush does not teach hate, although his detractors certainly do.
    The school lunch program, as an example, is more fully funded in
    the Republican plan than in Clinton's budget, but you'd never get
    that idea from the press.
    

>    Paul, Rush didn't rise to POWER.  He holds no office other than his
>    businesses.  He makes no Policy for the PUBLIC.  He just reports.  A
>    more appropriate description (instead of ROSE TO POWER) would be
>    became a successful Radio Personality.

This will be my last comment. 

The investigative reporting show Frontline (granted, public TV is not likely 
to  be friendly to this guy) reported that Newt Gingrich has been known to 
call Rush up to get a congressional vote changed.  I'm not making this
up.  Newt calls Rush, Rush gets on the radio, listenners call/fax their
reps and the vote changes.   Rush was a speaker at the orientation program
for newly elected repubs.  Rush is widely acknowledged in playing a major 
role in the recent rebulican victory.

He is not merely an entertainer.
-------------
Finally, my opinion is not based on hate- rather on concern that this guy
is fostering more hate.  It is not a question of liberal vs conservative.  
Have you ever seen his show on TV?   I think the racial composition of the
audience speaks for itself.

I have listenned to him quite a bit and I avoid buying from his sponsers.

-Paul

    a) i, too, was a skeptic and listened to his radio AND TV programs for
       quite some time before passing judgment.  i find his bombast to be
       a bit much, but nonetheless entertaining.  and i find his factual
       content to be higher than that of the nightly news (which is not to
       say without spin).
    
    b) i don't know whether to find the "racial makeup" comment amusing or
       uninformed.  two of Limbaugh's favorite sources are Dr. Thomas
       Sowell and Dr. Walter Williams (the latter is a professor of
       economics at George Mason U., and is often a fill-in host for
       limbaugh when he's on vacation).  both men are black.
    
    apologies for the divergence from the conference charter, but there's
    no sense in allowing FUD to spread.
    
    i'm done in this rathole.  happy Christmas, y'all.

    RE: <<< Note 4268.42 by DYPSS1::SCHAFER "Character matters." >>>
        
    >>  both men are black.
    
         With overwhelming numbers like that, I'm convinced!  :-)
    
                                   Greg

>is fostering more hate.  It is not a question of liberal vs conservative.  
>Have you ever seen his show on TV?   I think the racial composition of the
>audience speaks for itself.

huh? I've seen his show... the majority is white... sometimes I see a
few blacks, or asians in there as well. What's the point? All of my friends
when I grew up were white... does that mean I am full of hate or am racist? 

(i know this is a rathole... but...)

/scott

>Have you ever seen his show on TV?   I think the racial composition of the
>audience speaks for itself.
    
    Probably higher than the ratio of blacks participating in this topic. 
    Do numbers, by themselves, thus make all of us racists?
    
    -Mark

    I've write-locked this topic as it seems to be impossible to avoid
    non-pertinent rat-holes.
    
    If you want to continue discussing whether Rush's show spreads hate,
    please take it to another conference.
    
    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL