Conference 7.286::digital

That is precisely how several explanations left it with me. If you're
at or over 200 hours after 1/1/96, your weekly accrual will go into a
bit bucket. If and when you drop below 200 hours, you'll start to see
your weekly accrual increase your available vacation hours, unless you
hit 200 again.

Pete

RE.  > this new improved vacation policy change?

This has been the stated position for 6 or more months now.
... That you will not lose the extra hours but you won't accumulate
    any more until you get under 200 hours.

Phil 

    thx...  I guess I had read it too fast.
    I was under the impression that if you were at 232 on 1/1/96 you get
    cut down to 200 immediately - actually so did my colleague in the field
    who read this as "new news".
    
    					Stan

That was the original plan, but it was quickly modified so that you keep the
hours over 200, you just don't gain anymore until you are below 200.

				Steve

    .0 also leaves the impression that you could go from 232 down to 220
    and then back up to 232 before eventually getting below 200.
    
    I don't think this is the case.  All new vacation accrual will go into
    the bit bucket until you get below 200.
    
    The question of what happens with the "1 week additional vacation at
    certain aniverseries if your above or near 200 hours" remains open (at
    least to me).
    
    Steveg

    
    
    this oughta be interesting for the people who work in groups that are
    so shorthanded that they don't get to take vacation.... 8-{
    

    >The question of what happens with the "1 week additional vacation at
    >certain aniverseries if your above or near 200 hours" remains open (at
    >least to me).
    
    You lose it if you're at 200 hrs.  Just asked this question last week
    and here's the reply(my example had my current hrs at 190):
    
From:	CANON::PAY_QUESTION "US PAYROLL CUSTOMER SERVICE" 26-OCT-1995 09:56:42.18
To:	LANDO::OBRIEN
CC:	PAY_QUESTION
Subj:	RE: New Vacation accrual policy

If you are a R40 employee the maximum vacation hours that you can accrue
after January 1, 1996 is 200 hours.  According to your example you would only
accrue 10 hours.  So make sure to use vacation time so that your accrual will
be below 160 hrs. making you eligible to receive 40 hours.

U.S. Payroll Customer Service
rt
    

    RE: .6
    
    Naaaa, if I'm in a group that is short handed and THE CORPORATION is
    establishing a policy such that they want us all at or below 200 hours
    so their books look good and people don't get too burned out on the job
    then the only thing I'd be saying as I walked out the door that Friday
    would be, "See you after my break!"
    
    Mav

    Check your pay stub tomorrow and see "REminder: Effective Jay 1996, the
    vacation policy wil change to a 5 week maximum accrual.  You won't lose
    what you have already accrued - but you will not accrue any hours over
    the 5 week maximum."
    
    Seems pretty clear

Based on having received the attached email, I'm going to (to burn up
two weeks of vacation time)

Take off weeks ending 12/23 and 12/30

12/23 will be all vacation, 12/30 will be 32 hrs vacation, 8 hrs
holiday, and 8 hrs personal holiday. I will submit timecards today so
as not to be late.

Pete

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From:   PAY_QUESTION (PAY_QUESTION@CANON@IAMOK@MRGATE@IAMOK@PKO)
Date:    7-DEC-1995 17:47:55.21

The new vacation policy goes into effect on January 1st, for the 
Payroll week ending 1-6-96.  The last week ending for employees to
take vacation under the current policy is week ending 12-30-95, which
is the first tax reporting week ending for 1996.  Any vacation that 
appears on that pay statement will be applied to the 1995 vacation
accrual.  Earnings that appear on that pay statement will be applied
to 1996.

We hope this clears up any confusion regarding the deadline for
employees to use 1995 vacation accrual.

Your timecards should be submitted on the weeks you are on vacation
or ahead of time if you wish.  Payroll will not be adjusting vacation
accrual if timecards are submitted late.

US Payroll Customer Service

    
    If I turn in vacation slip now for the last week of December,
    do they process it now?  Or they will wait until the last week
    to deduct my vacation hours?
    
    There used to be advance vacation box on the time card, not
    any more.
    
    
    Jason

    r: .13
    
    The advance vacation box was to allow you to get paid for your vacation
    before you took it.  That went away a while ago.
    
    Bob

    Grrrr...
    
    Apparently payroll impliments the vacation limit calculation like this
    
    	MIN( current+incr, 200 ) - vacation
    
    instead of like this
    
    	MIN( (current-vacation) + incr, 200)
    
    Dave

    You got it.  I'm in the process of writing a note to payroll
    about this.  When I found that this had happedend to me I called 
    the PSN, and that is what they told me to do.  
    
    If I get any results, I'll post them.
    
    Jim

    PSN told me to send mail to CANON::PAY_QUESTION, too.
    
    Perhaps with two of us sending at the same time...
    
    Dave

    I exchanged mail with them several weeks ago and learned the following:
    
    	- Accruals, including the extra week you get at major
          anniversaries, are applied on FRI night when they get a feed from
          Personnel
    	- Vacation that was taken is applied on MON night; in addition they
          told me that timecards with week-ending dates in the future are
          "pended" instead of being entered immediately (kinda makes sense)
    
    Therefore, the equation in .15 is sort of correct but not for the
    implied reason.  It is just that the steps happen a couple days apart.
    I am not particularly in favor of this (I only lost 1.6 hours), but at
    least it is understandable.
    
    	Regards,
    		/jeff

    
    	Isn't this how it's always been done?
    

    re: .-1, perhaps that's how it has always been done, but unless you've
    encountered this particular situation before (15 years and this is the
    first time for me), you wouldn't be aware of the particulars.
    
    re: .-2, received a reply a while ago, which basically said the same
    thing. My reaction is that an explanation of how a system works doesn't
    mean that what the system does is "right" (like so what if they get one
    feed on one day and another feed on a differant day, that doesn't mean
    that they should process the info the way they do).
    
    Dave

    re: .20
    
    That's like a credit card company processing all your charges,
    determining that you are over your credit limit, charging you an
    over-limit fee, and then applying the payments to your account.
    
    Bob

yes, it has been that way forever, or for a long time.
this has been discussed here before.

the present way avoids a problem at the other end of the scale,
when the end of a vacation uses up most of the hours accrued during the
week.

they should have proper special cases at both ends.

    
>the present way avoids a problem at the other end of the scale,
>when the end of a vacation uses up most of the hours accrued during the
>week.
    
    
    	Thank you!!  I was all set to say this, but as soon as I was
    	ready to start the reply my mind went blank and I forgot the
    	scenario completely.
    
    	So no matter which way you calculate it, a certain group of
    	people will be unhappy.
    

    Not at all; the second formula in .15 addresses the alternative
    as well (though to be completely correct, it should be)
    
    	MIN( MAX( current+incr-vacation, 0 ), 200)
    
    ie don't apply the floor or the ceiling until after the calculation
    
    Dave

Re: .21

But that's the way many of them do it.  Checking account banks too - if 
presented with a bunch of checks (debits) and deposits, they'll apply the
debits first (and some of them will choose the largest first), then the
deposits.  The idea is to maximize the chance that you'll be overdrawn and
run up overdraft fees. 

Digital has processed vacation time this way for as long as I can remember.

				Steve

re .25, order of applying debits and credits.

i've asked about the order every time i've opened a bank account for the 
last 30 years or so. all of them said deposits first.  the most recent was
over 10 years ago, so perhaps things have changed.  and the word was "many"
not "all".  i had not thought to ask about sorting by amount.  

not too many years ago, the extra sort time would have eaten up the extra
overdraft fees.  i'm saddened, but not surprised, that a bank would go to 
that much trouble just to drive away a customer.


back to the subject, the vacation computation could easily be fixed.
i predict we will instead see a notice about it in the pay stub announcement
field occasionally.

    
    Vacation hours is not checking or credit account.  The company
    is not in the business of making profit on our vacation hours.
    Their practice of doing it is wrong.  It makes employee neverous,
    worry about lossing vacation time.   It is so easy for the company
    the change the practice and make everyone happy.  Will they do it?
    
    
    Jason

    
    	Waaah.
    
    	Give yourself a 5-hour buffer zone, high or low [whichever the
    	case may be], and you'll be all set.
    
    	If you're coming up on an applicable anniversary, increase your
    	buffer zone to accommodate the extra time.
    
    	I've run over a few times, and have lost a total of 10-15 hours
    	in the last 9+ years.  I had a good idea of when I'd run over
    	the max, and had plenty of time to plan for it, but I didn't.
    	Oh well.
    
    	I'd bet this has been the company's way of doing this for the
    	last 30 years, and people want them to change because they have
    	a hard time using a calculator.