Conference 7.286::digital

    
    I wouldn't look at an AlphaStation as being "obsolete" simply because
    a newer model came out.  I would think that a model only becomes
    obsolete when it won't do what you'd like it to do.  Or if it
    doesn't do what you want it to do very well when compared to 
    the competition.
    
    As for AlphaStations.  I believe there will be a cost reduced
    AlphaStation 200.  There is also 300Mhz follow on for the
    AlphaStation-600.  Mikassa will have a faster CPU also, I believe.
    
    The only really new feature for the AlphaStations is the 600 with it's
    64 bit PCI bus.
    
    There will be faster TGA graphics for the 200s, 400s, and other
    AlphaStations, available shortly.
    
    Kinda hard to believe that a 233Mhz or 266Mhz AlphaStation would 
    be obsolete simply because a 275Mhz or 300Mhz machine has hit the 
    streets.
    
    Just my $.02
    
    /art

    I agree with Note 4169.1.  Just because a newer model is released in no
    way "obsoletes" a previously announced AlphaStation or Server product
    that may, in fact, still beat anything on the market the competition
    may have.
    
    For what it is worth, though, Digital this week just upped the 21164
    chip to 333 MHz, and the 21064A chip to 300 MHz (it was a press release
    under the title "Speed Upgrades to Alpha".)
    
    Chuck

    and don't forget people still USE vax 11/780's. 
    
    Alan

    I dunno; I'd classify Jensen (DECpc AXP150) as obsolete.  It barely
    held it's own to Pentium 60/66 boxes when it came out three years ago.
    P6 will do a real number on 21064A-based boxes come Nov 1st; Pentium
    already gives them problems.  I wouldn't expect any more than 3 years
    tops for an AlphaStation; or any other desktop computer.
    .02 Kratz 

    Hey Kratz, if you've got some obsolete Jensens I've got customers who
    would pay reasonable prices (ie not Mikasa) for NT Alpha EISA systems
    because Intel isn't up to it (and their specialist hardware isn't yet
    on PCI). But then these people run applications other than Word,
    Exchange, Lotus Notes, and Doom. And they're on a high street near you.

    re .last
    >Hey Kratz, if you've got some obsolete Jensens I've got customers who
    >would pay reasonable prices

    Talk to Olivetti.  They tried to sell 'em and couldn't.

    Hey - if you're in NT land don't forget our new XL series with an
    upgradable CPU card - at reasonable prices for a change.  No obsolence
    - just upgrade to the next "up" CPU.  We've announced thru 266 MHz and
    who knows what's beyond (public notesfile and all that....)
    
    Ken B.

    
    
    CPU upgrades generally are just marketing ploys.... After two years
    when you want to go to the next generation CPU, you most always will
    need to install the latest MLB, BIOS/ARC firmware, new drivers, etc, and 
    weather or not your old options are still supported is another story.  
    Better to just buy the latest box, get the state of the art option card 
    de jour(s); and pass the old iron down the line to someone.
              
    gb
    
     

    ...perfect example.  That 64 bit wide path to memory on the Alpha XL's
    motherboard is already a bottleneck for them, and the NCR controller
    is nothing to write home about anymore.  Throwing faster Alpha chips
    that spin more cycles but end up waiting the same amount of time for
    memory is a waste.  Same thing happened with the Pentium Overdrive
    on 486's 32 bit wide path; better off with a dx4/100.

I did this kind of work as a Consultant before I came here.

The customer was going to buy a 'Cobra' and I talked them into waiting
for the 2100's.  They are happy campers now, and considering swapping the
daughter card for the BIPS chip.

Objectively, I think that the PCI bus Alpha's we sell are about the
safest investment you can make out there in workstation land.

Sell them on the PCI bus architecture, or like Ken said, if they are
running NT, you can't go wrong with the new XL systems.

Digital has a good story to tell here.

-Stephen

    Daughter cards, may be a marketing ploy, but some customers with
    horrible accounting systems find them useful.  Loral Vought Systems, a
    major government contractor, has to depreciate systems over many years. 
    They got a couple more years of use out of their DECstations because of
    the upgrades.
    
    I think this is typical (although not very bright) in large accounts. 
    I am unhappy to hear the AlphaXLs daughter card only has a 64bit memory
    path.  Putting anything faster than the current generation EV45 on a 64
    bit wide bus creates a bottleneck.
    
    Bets Regards,
    John