Conference 7.286::digital

    Incidentally folks, PLEASE do not attempt to correspond with me via the
    DECnotes command send/author, which will reach me via the
    DRDAN::KALIKOW address.  That's simply a workstation-of-convenience so
    I can run DECnotes.
    
    Please EMail me ***ONLY*** on [email protected] -- Thanks!
    
    (Please re-send, George Munoz from NEO -- sorry, I can't figure out how
     to reach YOU via internet-style addressing...)
                       

Dan,

Is the "live" version the NH Primaries web site that was very played up
on WBUR this a.m.?  It drove me crazy that they didn't give a URL  (I spent
all my coffee break time searching for it using yahoo, lycos, webcrawler, &c.)

Congrats (I think :-)

Bobbi

http://www.fosters.com/ is the one talked about on WBUR this morning.

j.

    Nope, the Fosters stuff (currently running at Workgroup Web Forum
    1.0 Beta, baselevel 4) is public, running on a DIGITAL-provided alpha
    managed by John Regan's group.  Gene Kusekoski & his Merry Band of
    Internet Entrepreneurs in the ZKO tribe of the Internet Business Group
    are the SysManglers, and Phil Kincade & others from Foster's Daily
    Democrat are the editors & WebMasters.
    
    The http://webforum.research.digital.com/xfront.html site is different,
    Digital Marketing-specific, and will go public (hope hope) tomorrow. 
    It's at the latest & greatest code baselevel.
    
    The two sites will point at each other somewhere, I am sure.
    
                             Bobbi -- go for it!!
    (and incidentally I will be notifying a certain Internet Paper Airplane
     manufacturer when it goes up.) :-)                                             

    > Read Me Second: For DECcies ONLY! 
    
    Should this be  "Read Me Second: For Digitalites ONLY !!"

    What's a NOS?
    

It's 8:27 on 21-Sep, and I still haven't received the initial ack
from my registration attempt at ~ 16:00 20-sep.  I'd say something's
broken :-(

(Not to mention the whole site seems blindingly slow to  my
alpha-base Netscape 1.1N)

Bobbi

        NOS = Network Operating System (e.g. Novell, Banyan Vines etc.)
        
        I was able to register from my home system last night via AOL
        with prompt response via mail - I'd estimate no longer than 5
        minutes between submitting the application form, receiving the
        pro-forma message to be returned via mail and receiving the
        account information with USER ID in return.
        
        Andy
        

>> It's 8:27 on 21-Sep, and I still haven't received the initial ack
>> from my registration attempt at ~ 16:00 20-sep.  I'd say something's
>> broken :-(

I got my original ack, but never got an account created.  I'll have a look
into this.

>> (Not to mention the whole site seems blindingly slow to  my
>> alpha-base Netscape 1.1N)

What relay are you using?  The response problems are internal.  External
access speed seems quite fine.

j.

This is from the mail log.  Looks like you provided a non-repliable address.

j.

Sep 20 16:15:07 webforum sendmail[11214]: AA10668: [email protected], delay=00:00:01, stat=Host unknown

>This is from the mail log.  Looks like you provided a non-repliable address.

Yup it should be [email protected] >sigh< I'm not used to the new alias yet :-(

That's what I get for trying to follow the "proper procedures"

Bobbi, who still is more happy being at
[email protected]  , even though "It's against company policy"

    I downloaded a test version and it looks like it is tied into Pathworks
    or a NOS.Surely either of these decisions is a major desgin flaw-I hope
    I am wrong since what we need is a server or serverless model.In a
    server model,any transport and any machine is a server.In a serverless
    model,each client can also be a server.
    So,is it tied to a NOS and can it used any transport?

    I have a sneaking suspicion that you are confusing Workgroup Web(tm), the
    LAN-based groupware solution, with Workgroup Web Forum(tm), the Web,
    WAN-based groupware solution.  Please check me out on this...?
    
    Workgroup Web can be used with ANY LAN transport.
    
    Workgroup Web Forum can be used by end-users equipped with with ANY
    Web-Browser, as long as it supports HTML forms.  The code itself is
    tied to (at the moment) Digital UNIX and Windows NT (Alpha and/or
    Intel), and with NCSA httpd and Netscape's Commercial webserver on the
    Digital UNIX side, and with Process and Netscape's Windows NT https.
    
    See http://webforum.research.digital.com/platforms.html
    
    OBTW, the server's up & announced at
                                          http://webforum.research.digital.com/

I think you're talking about our Workgroup Web product, which is different
than Workgroup Webforum.

I'd explain the difference, but I'm confused as well :-).

Let me see if I can entice the engineering group to respond.

j.

    Fortunately, Workgroup Web Forum(tm) is equipped with SWAB�s, to
    prevent just that sort of DECnotes collision.
    
    �SWAB=SoftWare Air Bag
    
    :-)
    

I read in a web tips doc that "Under construction" signs on web pages
are an immediate turnoff for some web surfers, whose attitude
seems to be "if it ain't ready, why waste my time" and who then
click off to somewhere else. 

I don't know how true this might be, what do you think?

   erik

erik:

  Immediate turnoff? No. New Englanders are used to the idea of
  some roads being PERPETUALLY under destruction.

                                   Atlant

re Note 4133.13 by DRDAN::KALIKOW:

>     I have a sneaking suspicion that you are confusing Workgroup Web(tm), the
>     LAN-based groupware solution, with Workgroup Web Forum(tm), the Web,
>     WAN-based groupware solution.  Please check me out on this...?
  
        Perhaps a name ECO is in order (*quickly*, now that Web Forum
        is going "public").  The "Workgroup" part of the name, as an
        example, appears on some of the Foster's Daily Democrat pages
        -- in that context the word "Workgroup" is just verbal
        clutter (IMHO, of course).

        Bob

    Like a previous noter, I got the quick initial mail, to which I replied
    (twice!). I have yet to receive the 2nd mail after having sent my
    reply. (I sent a reply yesterday and one today.) Is the problem with me
    or my set?
    
    	BD�

Is this Foster's the same group that makes Australian
beer and sells it in large cans?

    No, they put out a local newspaper in Dover, N.H. I believe that they
    are the only daily in Strafford county.
    
    Deb

    Well, the following came down as a feedback to alpha developers support
    web page. Looks like they have a similar product (WebNotes) which they
    are offering to *give* to Digital.  
    
    I thought this is relevant to what is being discussed here. Any
    interest ?
    
    Navin Modi
    Software Parters Engineering Group
    --------------------
    From [email protected] Thu Sep 21 23:43:51 1995
    To: [email protected]
    Cc: [email protected]
    Subject: Feedback to AXP-developers WWW
    Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 23:40:34 -0400
    From: [email protected]
    X-Mts: smtp
    
    NAME:   Stephen Cloutier
    EMAIL:  [email protected]
    
    COMMENT:
    How about creating some Internet available Web based forums on some of
    the Digital's products?  While compu$serve was a reasonable solution, you
    can easily replace (or augment) those forums with a Web based forum which
    everyone will be able to use.
    
    We will *GIVE* to Digital our Web Forums Product, WebNotes, to use at
    your web site for the purpose of implementing thses forums.
    
    WebNotes is an industrial strength Web based Conferencing (forum)
    system.
    
    Please check out WebNotes at http://webnotes.ostech.com and/or Email me
    if you have any questions about WebNotes, or this message.
    
    This will be an absolutely great way for your customers to interact
    with each other, and with Digital support, technical and marketing people.
    
    Regards,
            Steve Cloutier
            (508) 597 5500
    
    
         

	note: Steve Cloutier is an ex-Digit...

Wow!

I like it.  I hope we can sell it.  The "Forum" product looks like a good 
alternative to 'Notes.

Cool.  I just hope they end-run the marketing department and make it 
successful.  Otherwise, its doomed to oblivion.

    Fwiw, I (and some others) checked out OsTech's port of DECnotes and
    found it OK, but wanting in the kind of object-oriented power that
    simply imho DRIPS out of the underlying architecture of Workgroup Web
    Forum.  Plus, it wouldn't have interfaced so neatly with the other half
    of the story the NIS folks put together:  Workgroup Web, a nifty
    LAN-based groupware system that will (among other things) grow
    customers for Workgroup Web Forum.  When I last looked at it, Ostech's
    WebNotes looked like a port.  That might well have changed by now, but
    imho one does not found a new business by porting an old one.  One
    learns from previus successes & rebuilds stronger.
                                                     

re Note 4133.25 by DRDAN::KALIKOW:

        I must say, however, that OsTech's WebNotes feels like a
        reasonably complete implementation of DEC Notes in the Web
        medium, whereas every instantiation of WebForum that I've had
        a chance to use (admittedly all pre-product) seem to be
        missing something *as a Notes replacement*.

        The underlying architecture of WebForum may be "dripping with
        object-oriented power", but I suspect you really don't know
        the implementation technology of WebNotes -- perhaps the
        power of its technology is what enabled it to be more
        "Notes-like" (which certainly was their objective).

        In the world outside of Digital, of course, being
        "Notes-like" buys you nothing;  the question then to be
        answered is what kind of paradigm would be familiar and
        approachable to the world at large and yet still have
        sufficient power.  What does your investigation suggest?

        Bob

    I thought Webnotes was OK but way too slow. If Ostech want to demo and
    sell this - they should put it on a reasonably powerful machine.
    
    Alan

    ... methought that it'd be best to leave that basenote unratholed, and
    to answer the second question herein...  Here it is, for reference --
       
Note 4191.1           Announcing Digital LivePoll WWW forum               1 of 1
NQOS01::16.90.112.13::Tab R. Roper "Mountain States " 4 lines  18-OCT-1995 12:08
                             -< External Access?? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there a forum on the .digital.com segment that our customers can use to 
ask questions???? And for a demonstration of WorkGroup Forum??
================================================================================
    Wow, what a softball of a question!! :-)  Tnx, Tab!
    
    My own personal vision (which I would personally bet my house on)
    follows.  I'm not representing these as anything more than that.  
    
    In a matter of mere months, Digital (and its competition, hopefully LED
    by Digital) will be hosting a series of web-oriented conferences
    (hopefully all Workgroup Web Forum, but if not, then too bad for us!)
    for all of its products (probably organized into product families). 
    There will be a subscription-for-entry area where PAYING customers get
    to ask/answer questions.  There will be a more OPEN area used for
    generic support, presales marketing, and the like.  Details:
    
    *  You're thinking of buying a DIGITAL product or service?  Read about
       it on (some infocenter beneath) http://www.digital.com/ and you'll
       probably find a Web CONFERENCING center where trained sales staff
       answer your questions...  and where there's a full NI text-search
       engine available.  Kinda lends new meaning to a FAQ when you can see
       them directly, eh?
    
    *  You've BOUGHT some DIGITAL product or service?  Great, that entitles
       you to N months of the use of UserID X and Password Y that will
       enable your entrance to the Customer's Forum, where even MORE
       highly-trained post-sales support staff answer your questions...
       
       The list goes on and on, but I'll leave it there...
    
    Want to see a CUSTOMER-visible demo (that is starting to garner some
    good notices by its visitors from all over the planet)?
    
    http://webforum.research.digital.com/
    
    Pls pay particular note to the mini-essay on Customer Support in 
    
    http://webforum.research.digital.com/fdd-welcome.http
    
    There are plenty of INTERNAL sites where Workgroup Web Forum is in
    daily use.  The Mother Of All internal Workgroup Web Forum sites is at
    
    http://insight.lkg.dec.com/
    
    ... and leave us not forget that this product, and another great
    product named Workgroup Web, are the work of NIS's (alphabetically-
    ordered) Dah Ming Chiu, Dave Griffin, and Peter Hurley.  Plus all their
    colleagues, management, & friends.
    
    Tnx again for the nice slow pitch! :-)
                                 
    Dan
    

Thanks for the response.......

I'm spending a great deal of time lately training/educating our partners on 
Workgroup Web, Forum, and our Internet products.  I'll use these now to do 
live demonstrations with our partners and show them how to do it with their 
customers......

Keep the access coming...

Tab

    See that gentleman sitting over at 4133.27 and .29?  Yes, that's the
    one.  Rugged mountain-states type.  Please go over & offer him another
    round of whatever he's drinkin', and it's on me.  Here's a couple bucks
    for your trouble.  
    
    Thanks!
    
    :-)