Conference 7.286::digital

    Kam,
    
    Maybe bad timing. Just read an announcement in VTX where Digital is
    coming out with 5 new Starion models, available 8/24/95. The article
    mentions the retail chains that should be carrying them. 
    
    Sounds like the sales rep was mis-informed that newer versions were
    coming out, as CompUsa is 1 of the stores mentioned.
    
    hth,
    
    Kevin

    I am sure that the Starion is the PC featured on the
    HSN discussed in 4042
    

    Re: .0
    
    I had a similar experience last month. WHen I went to CompUSA in Mass, 
    the Starion System, I had seen only the previous week was missing. The
    salesman told me that they were waiting for newer models from DEC.
    
    I ended up buying it from Lechmere in NH. There too, I had to wait 2
    weeks before I got my PC. According to the saleman there "I do not know
    if the problem is with our sale office or with Digital..." I kept my
    comments to myself.
    
    But, it was worth waiting. I got a GREAT price. It had 
    Pentium75/1GB/8MB/4xCD/sound card/speakers/15" no glare monitor and
    tons of s/w all for $2025. It beat all prices in the store. 
    To top that, DEC mailed me a $25 rebate. I wonder if DEC made any money
    at all on the deal or not.

Of course, the CompUSA salesman wants to make a sale NOW, and he doesn't care
which brand you buy (to a large extent), so he'll say most anything to get
the customer to buy now.  By not producing enough Starion systems and 
creating shortages, we screw ourselves out of many sales and lose potential
new Digital customers.

					Steve

    
>>    But, it was worth waiting. I got a GREAT price. It had 
>>    Pentium75/1GB/8MB/4xCD/sound card/speakers/15" no glare monitor and
>>    tons of s/w all for $2025. It beat all prices in the store. 
>>    To top that, DEC mailed me a $25 rebate. I wonder if DEC made any money
>>    at all on the deal or not.


	.3  are you saying the price was better at Lechmere, even with the 
	employee discount???
	 
	I am looking also, and trying to get the best deal...boy, it is
	confusing.  I think I'll wait amonth (that is what I've been saying
	for 3 years now!)

	so, bottom line - Who does have the best deal.?????????? in the
	Boston area??

	thanks, Mikki

EPP is the best deal for employees, if they have what you're looking for.

				Steve

    in short, you got caught between the phase-out of the old and the
    introduction of the new. some key things that influence the retail
    environment include....
    
    	. inventory management is key to financial success. 
    
    	. product refreshes in the retail market happen in August-September. 
    
    	  	yes .. HMA debut the new Starion, supporting (FISed)
    		with Windows95, new games etc...
    
    i know of other factors, but lets not continue, because it will sound
    like an excuse for a lost sale.

|    To top that, DEC mailed me a $25 rebate. I wonder if DEC made any money
|    at all on the deal or not.

	You are not confusing that $25 with your annual work-hard bonus,
	are you?

>Per

    I don't think the EPP is the best deal, in fact it was the DEC PC rep
    that said that the Starion was a better deal than any Celebris system I
    could get THROUGH Digital.
    
    This is because the Starion is ONLY sold through channels and is not
    available via the EPP.
    
    I have since bought a Starion from CompUSA.  The 700i with
    90MHZ Pentium, minitower, 1 GIG drive, sound card, mic, speakers and
    14.4 modem cost me $1899.  When I asked about the Digital discount at
    CompUSA (which is 12% over thier cost) the rep laughed and said with
    the discount it would be MORE!(they make about 6% on this deal).  
    So I laughed and handed him the plastic.
    
    Since we have given up our direct PC sales to another company, PC
    Complete, and they sell the Starion they may give us a break but
    I haven't heard of any EPP prospects. 
    agreements in place.
    
    Regards, Ira

RE: -1

I called the EPP 800 number, 1-800-EPP-1237, now being serviced by PC Complete.
They carry the Starions, just like the other channel players. In fact, I'm 
pretty sure you can order any/all DEC (oops - Digital) PC products from them
and get the 20% EPP discount. Earlier notes said they saw the best price
this way - better than through channels, like CompUSA. 

Also, they just took over direct sales of products from out Components and 
Peripherals division, as well, and I think the same discount applies.

Meir (eagerly awaiting the catalog, so I can check out the new Starions!)

    And .0 should call his friend back up, tell him that the new line
    is now out, so he can bring back that NEC piece of clunker under
    the 30 day money-back guarantee and get a real machine.  The added
    bonus is that the sales jerk who didn't know his stuff (or deliberately
    lied to make the sale that day) will have his commission removed.
    
    m

    As of July, the Starions were available through EPP.  Even before that
    you could buy them at CompUSA with the employee discount, but the EPP
    price is better.
    
    				Steve

Got the prices from PC Complete. All prices don't include monitor. They do 
include everything else in the announcement (Quad CD-ROM, modem, etc.). See 
VTX LIVEWIRE for the specifics.

910:  75 mhz, 8 Meg, 850 Meg - $1699 ==> $1360 EPP
915: 100 mhz, 8 Meg, 850 Meg - $1899 ==> $1520 EPP
920:  75 mhz, 16 Meg, 1 Gig -  $2099 ==> $1680 EPP
930: 100 mhz, 16 Meg, 1 Gig -  $2399 ==> $1920 EPP
940: 133 mhz, 16 Meg, 1 Gig -  $2899 ==> $2320 EPP

Monitors:

14": $349 ==> $280 EPP
15": $399 ==> $320 EPP
17": $1059 ==> $850 EPP

Boy, I sure hope we can solve the channels availability problem we 
had with the last round of Starions, cause it seems like we ought
to sell a lot of these systems at these prices. EPP pricing makes 
it hard to resist. To all those who had given up on the EPP system
in the past, it's probably worth taking a fresh look, now that it's
under new management.  I've been holding out on buying a PC for what 
seems like a long time (a couple years). Now, I just hope I don't have
to wait too much longer to actually see the new Starions in stores!

Happy shopping!
Meir

WOW!!!

As I sit here looking at my Digital DECpc 450D2LP, I can't help but
get a little teary eyed as I see our hot boxes making it into the consumer
market and watch our name get mentioned more and more in the PC trade
rags...*sniff*

This is really exciting...I'm all over the Starion...will make a GREAT home
PC...heck, if I step up to the pump and get a 133mhz/16megs/1.2gig/17" monitor
system, I feel like I'll be set for quite sometime...

I can't even believe this is Digital....er...DEC!!!!

-Stephen

What's just as exciting is the significant price drop of the HiNote line -
as much as 27%.  The top of the line Ultra is now something like $3800, down
from $4800.  This makes it VERY competitive in the market.

					Steve

    
    	I sure hope we solve the availability problem. I bought
    	a STARION 940 yesterday and PCs COMPLEAT told me the
    	earliest that I could expect delivery is the week of
    	9/4/95. Nice price for a high end PC though.
    
    	Ken
    

	hmmmm...less than 2 weeks for a product that was *just*
	introduced doesn't sound too bad to me.....

	_kelley

Yeah - took me 10 weeks for my Celebris to arrive (I ordered it two weeks after
announcement.)  Two weeks seems like an improvement.

				Steve

    
    
    Compaq won't be shipping their Win95 systems for another month or so.
    We are among the first to ship Win95 FISed systems.  It was very tough
    and thanks to a handful of of hardworking engineers pulling all nighters
    we have a pretty good system to offer.
    
    gb
     

    Well, since you ask, lots of other vendors had systems _advertised_ as
    Windows95 ready, with vouchers in the boxes, etc.
    
    First, you need awareness of your products in your target market.
    Then, you have a chance of creating customer interest.
    Then, you have a chance of convincing interested customers into
    expressing a preference for your products.
    THEN, finally, they might buy, and there might be some revenue.
    
    Stating the obvious, I'm sure.
    
    But in the UK the evidence is that after a brief foray into advertising
    in end user PC comics and general newspapers etc, we stopped. Do we
    want the "low end" (SoHo?) PC market ?
    
    Maybe I've missed the marketing material priming the market that we
    would be the first with Windows95 installed on systems. I know it, now.
    But it's too late now.
    
    regards
    john

We actually beat Compaq to the punch!!!

*sitting down before I faint*

er....yes I actually note standing up!!

B^)

    
    .. I guess I begin to sound like a stuck record.. (cd?)...
    
    any danger of PCBU getting some retail stuff sorted out this side of
    the pond ?
    
    Today (Win 95 day), big queues outside the large PC retail store up the
    road, to buy some new software that some guy called Gates (?) is
    selling.
    
    IBM kit stocked, Compaq, Toshiba, Dell.... (none of ours).
    
    If we ain't on the shelf, we can't get bought....
    
    retail. don't you just love it.
    
    
    
    AW

    If we beat Compaq to the market with PCs taht are fully Windows 95
    ready including having it installed.  Why are we not beating them in
    the advertising.  There is a TV ad in the UK from Compaq saying they
    are/were the leading partner with MS for developing Windows 95.  Sure
    gives the impression they are ready for it.  Where are our TV ads in
    the UK?  I haven't seen one Digital ad at all anywhere, no radio ads,
    no ads in the newspapers, when most other places were advertising. 
    Even Viglen were advertising on the radio yesterday, and I haven'theard
    them doing that before
    
    Mark

    RE:  <<< Note 4065.13 by AWECIM::SEGAL >>>
    
    I just got the employee price quote from PCs Compleat for the Starion
    930: 2023.25. How did you get a price $100 less?
    
    
>910:  75 mhz, 8 Meg, 850 Meg - $1699 ==> $1360 EPP
>915: 100 mhz, 8 Meg, 850 Meg - $1899 ==> $1520 EPP
>920:  75 mhz, 16 Meg, 1 Gig -  $2099 ==> $1680 EPP
>>>>930: 100 mhz, 16 Meg, 1 Gig -  $2399 ==> $1920 EPP
>940: 133 mhz, 16 Meg, 1 Gig -  $2899 ==> $2320 EPP
    

RE: -1:

>> How did you get a price $100 less?

You have to ask for the DEC EPP discount, not the Digital EPP discount. 
They only get 20% off. We get a better deal, since we sell more than 
those other guys...

Okay, so perhaps you were looking for a different answer. SEMANTICS!

When I posted the prices in .24, I wrote that I had gotten the "employee
price quote", but actually, they gave me the list price quotes. The guy I
spoke with told me to knock off 20% to get the EPP price, which seemed 
simple enough. Now, I can do the math as good as the next guy, and 20% off
of $2399 is $1920. So, either, they gave me the wrong list price, or, you 
don't always get the full 20% off, in which case, I can't explain why. 
It's a mystery to me, but you might ask them to explain the difference. 

- Meir

You might want to check back.  I was told that the EPP discount on Starions
were sometimes less than 20% due to lower margins.

				Steve

    Just spoke with Bob Shigori at PC Compleat re: the prices that were
    listed in this notes conference for the Starion models.  It would seem
    that the problem we are seeing is that PC Compleat quotes their price
    when Digital Employees call in....and their price is approximately (not
    precisely) 5% less than Digital's List Price.  The Employee Purchase
    Price for these machines ordered through PC Compleat is approximately
    15% off PC Compleat price.
    
    Example:
     
    Model		Digital List		PC Compleat	EPP
    The Starion 210       $1749			   $1669        $1416.03
    
    If you have further questions on the prices of the various models, I
    would recomment that you call Bob Shigori at 1-800-377-1236 x. 7910
    
    CJ Williams

> ...higher prices...

  Perhaps you didn't book a Saturday stay-over, 21 days in advance?
  This PC configuration stuff is tres complicated!

                                   Atlant

Does anybody know the Starion prices from COMPUSA with the EPP discount?  
How does it compare with PCcomplete?


						-Paul

    It's somewhat cheaper if you go through PCs Compleat.
    
    			Steve

    
    
    I was quoted $2418.27 for a Starion 940i.
    Little higher than .24, wonder why ?
    
    Rick A

    I just ordered a Starion through PCs Compleat. Here's another factor to 
    keep in mind. If you don't live in the People's Republic of
    Massachusetts and it's shipped to any other state, there is no sales
    tax at all on your purchase.
    

There's a bunch of related discussion in GIADEV::DECSTATION, notes 6164.*, 
including a pointer to the Starion WWW page, which has most of the basic
info on all the new models. 

Cheers,
 Meir



            <<< GIADEV::SWAP2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DECSTATION.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< DECstation PC Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 6164.54               Starion "New" (fall?) Line                   54 of 60
TLE::ETZEL "Mike"                                     6 lines  25-AUG-1995 14:20
                                -< Info on WWW >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is a Digital PC WWW home page and a subpage on Starion at:
    
       http://www.pc.digital.com 
    
       http://www.pc.digital.com/products/retail.htm
    

re::.29  STAR::jacobi.zko.dec.com::JACOBI 


>>Does anybody know the Starion prices from COMPUSA with the EPP discount?  
>>How does it compare with PCcomplete?
    
    I was at CompUSA this last weekend (Woodland Hills, CA), and they still
    did not have any.  So in one way you could say that they were cheaper
    at CompUSA.
    
    On the other hand, they Fry's electronics around the corner was selling
    Starions hand over fist at a price approximately $350 more than the EPP
    price.
    
    Guess where I ordered mine?
    
    tom

	Note that there is a CompUSA coming to Nashua. In the same strip
	mall on DW Highway as Purity/Sport Authority/Marshalls/CVS.
	("Royal Ridge Mall")

	I saw the sign outside, the interior looks like it being
	done. I suspect they are gonna be ready within 6-8 weeks. Just
	in time for the Xmas rush. (Which I think will be huge this year)


							mike

Last month PC's Compleat expected the Starion to arrive for shipment
right afte Windows 95 was released on the 24th.  They then moved
the date up to Sept 1.  As of today they expect to receive
the Starion's by Sept. 15.

When might I really expect them to be available?  What is the holdup?

Thanks,
Ginny  

As was mentioned elsewhere, Microsoft held up sending the Windows 95 "bits"
to the PC manufacturers for integration by about a month, causing schedules
to slip about the same amount.

				Steve

    Does ANYONE know when/if Starion will hit Europe?

Glen Kelley (PCBUOA::GKELLEY) probably knows - he doesn't follow this notesfile
(or doesn't seem to).  He's the Starion product manager.  Send him mail and
ask.

				Steve

    I wrote to Glen Kelley asking if the Starion line would be coming to
    Canada.  He says "3 months+".
    

 Digital - U.S. retailer Circuit City to carry Digital's Starion line
	{Livewire, Worldwide News, 5-Sep-95}
   Digital announced today that Circuit City, America's largest retailer of
 brand-name consumer electronics, will carry Digital's Starion line of retail
 PCs.  Richmond, Va.-based Circuit City is the fourth U.S. national retail
 chain to carry Digital's PC line.  
   "Circuit City, a national consumer electronics giant in the U.S., is known
 for exceptional customer satisfaction," said Enrico Pesatori, vice president
 and general manager of Digital's Computer Systems Division.  "With more than
 300 convenient locations nationwide and a strong advertising campaign, they
 are an excellent match for us as we selectively expand our product
 distribution in the important retail segment." 
   Circuit City will sell the new Pentium PC line Digital announced two weeks
 ago as part of its expanded push into the consumer market.  The new systems
 optimize Microsoft's new Windows 95 operating system and are the first
 consumer PCs to offer home theater-quality JBL speakers.  Specific models and
 store availability will be announced at a later date.

    The 17" monitor prices in .10 aren't correct.  List for that monitor
    is $749.99 and the EPP price at PCcomplete is $636.95.  I want to use
    1024x768 graphics, so it's probably worth the $300 extra for 17".
    The extra 1MB of graphics memory costs $60 at EPP prices.
    
    I asked when I'd get a Starion 930 if I ordered it today and the guy
    said I would be #246 in the queue to get them when they finally arrive.
    
    I've heard it said that unless one likes tinkering with drivers, one
    should only buy PCs that use SoundBlaster and one of the big name
    graphics cards.  The Starion literature says that it uses SoundBlaster
    Pro and the S3 Trio graphics chip.  Sounds good!  Can anyone point me
    to web pages or whatever for S3 and/or Creative Labs?
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry
    

    www.creaf.com for Creative - don't know about S3.  Why do you feel
    you need it?
    
    				Steve

    
    	Not sure if S3 is www.sthree.com, but if it isn't you can call them
    at 408-980-5400. Nikki Tanis is the head of Corporate Communications.
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    I think S3-xxx are the products from a Company called Number 9 and the URL
    is http://www.nine.com.
    
    

    Re .45 Actually, the company called Number 9 _uses_ S3 chips in the
    design and manufacture of some of their products, as do many other
    video board manufacturers. S3 make a wide variety of video accellerator
    chips, Number 9 makes video boards.
    
    Harry
    

    The BBS # for Number 9 Corporation is 617/862.7502.  This BBS is based
    on Galacticomm Software.  It's a Client/Server application (client kit
    is FREE WGCLIENT.EXE).  Once downloaded and installed on your local PC
    you have a nice Windows-based application into their BBS, VERY
    USER-FRIENDLY.

>    Does ANYONE know when/if Starion will hit Europe?

I contacted the UK PCBU Business Manager and, to sumerise his reponse, I
would not hold your breath.

I can understand that the move to Europe may not be simple (e.g. the different
Telco equipment/approvals needed) but I think this is a great pity.  This
system would add to our growing reputation in the PC business and I think we
(or at least our partners) could sell a lot of them.

Gary

    I went into CompUSA in Woburn today - they had three Starion models
    on display (910, 915 and 920, I think).  Yet their newspaper insert
    didn't mention them at all.
    
    HP has a new "Pavilion" line which is very aggressively priced.  Should
    make for an interesting next few months in this segment of the market.
    
    				Steve

    
    There were two Starions in the weekend Lechmere circular.
    

re .42

The Starion uses the Diamond Multimedia (http://www.diamondmm.com/) card 
TeleCommander which includes the FAX/Modem, Audio, and Telephony capabilities.
The Diamond literature says it is compatible with Sound Blaster and Sound Blaster
Pro compatible Applications. Has any one had any experiences with the Diamond 
cards in other systems?

Thanks,

Paul

Potential Starion Customer

May I suggest that Starion technical questions be directed to 
GIADEV::DECSTATION, where extensive discussion has been taking place.

				Steve

    
    News at, what time is it now ???????
    
    
    Well, called PC Compleat again this am.
    Now I am #15 in the queue for a 940i.
    But, she did say that 5 940's came in
    and now I am #10. No idea when they will
    see more though. Great !
    
    Stay tuned...
    
    Rick A

Since CompUSA gives discounts on *all* items in the store, it would be 
interesting to compare discounted Starion prices with discounted prices on 
other PC systems that are in stock.  PCcomplete also gives discounts on all 
items, but the discount is much lower on non-Digitial items.


						-Paul

    re: .38 and .48
    
    Subj: Starion in any country than the US ....
    
    One of the limitations of offerring any new system in any country is
    the regulatory approval requirements.  European Telecom, Safety and 
    Emission requirements differ from the US or Canada.  
    
    I do not have the definitive list of the various agencies, but the 
    limiting factor is:
    
    	Approval for any region must be designed in into the product.
    
    As designing in approval places constraints on component selection, 
    product qualification and thus represents additional cost to engineering
    and the product, this will not be designed in, unless marketing with
    sales demonstrates (with a business plan) an active interest in the
    release of new products.
    
        So, yes .. the probability of introducing the current Starion
        products into Europe is unlikely.
    
    So the question that should be directed to European Marketing and
    Sales, is
    
        What business plans does European Marketing-Sales have to
    	introduce future releases of the Starion family?
    
    david

Re: .54

Others have done that comparison - PCs Compleat ends up the better deal.

			Steve

    
    
    Well gang, I give up.
    
    Just talked to PC Compleat and was told that I was #15
    in queue, and 20 some odd 940i's due in 9/15. Hurrah !
    
    NOT....
    
    Also just heard from my man Everett at Gateway with some
    final data I asked for. He informed me about a limited
    time offer on their 10th anniv 133MHz Pentium tower system.
    About $4000 delivered. Comes with Sony .25 monitor, Matrox
    video with 2MB, 16MB EDO RAM, 1.6GB drive, 6x CD-ROM, and
    all the software packages that Gateway offers including
    Windows 95 and Office 95.
    
    Bit more than the Starion 940i but when I match spec line
    for line I come up with more system and software than the
    940i.
    
    Plus 3 year war with 3 year on-site.
    
    Have to wait three weeks but they will send and FAX me confirmation
    and give me 48-72 hour advance notice when to expect the system
    to show up on my door. All I need now is my money back from PC
    Compleat. From what I hear from them, it will take about that long.
    That does not set right with me but, now I have the time.
    
    END OF STORY.
    
    Sorry Digital but..... hell, I already have a Starion 600i.
    Loyality stops there. I am happy with it. And, I have had
    Gateway in the past.
    
    Rick A

    but hey rick .. that mail node says you work for the PCBU. given up on
    your own organization?
    
    d
    
    ps.  reminds me of the time an engineer in Digital Ayr Manufacturing had
    	 his Dell PC deliver to him at the plant, by Dell in a Dell truck.

    
    RE: last.
    
    Thought about having it delivered at work.... NOT !
    Never get the boxes into my little car.
    
    Actually, I friend here at AKO said something that
    made me think. "so, you new Starion 940i is the same
    as your Starion 600i at home right ?". That hit home.
    The idea of a second system was to go for something
    more like a home office system with a scanner in the
    'not-so-near' future now. And, I want to connect the
    two by some means like maybe a cheap Ethernet and
    use Windows 95 on the new system and Windows for Workgroups
    on the Starion 600i.
    
    I love the 600i. I mean, I had a 486sx25 at home and a
    486dx33 at work (now a 486dx2/66). So to Pentium 90MHz
    600i was a huge step up.
    
    I just could not pass up the Gateway 10th anniv system.
    
    Rick A

    I stopped to look at the PC's at Lechmere's in the Mall of NH this past
    weekend. While there I watched a Lechmere Sales guy give a brief demo
    of a Digital Starion. I was surprised to hear the Lechmere guy tell a
    potential customer that the Digital PC's were the best of the various
    brands in the stores. The starions were all running some flashy
    multimedia sales support software, that presented digital and the
    machines. Most other PC's in the area seemed to either be turned off or
    were running simple screen savers.  The starions were definitely
    attracting more attention that the Packard Bell's, IBM's and other PC
    in the store. 
    
    Rich Hart.