Conference 7.286::digital

>  O.K. I've suffered long enough having to go to a VMS system to
>  get paks I need for my Unix box.  Is there a unix system for
>  pak distribution?

As far as I know, NO.

>  I've just been on the vtx pak adventure.  I needed an unlimited
>  OSF-USR license.  It's not bad enough I had to log into a VMS
>  system (ech!) to do it, but once I had logged in, run vtx pak,

That (ech!) is paying the bills while WNT and Unix build volumes high enough
to keep us all employed. Bad mouthing ANY of our products hurts Digital.

The first screen that shows up states:
	NOTICE: There have been problems retrieving PAKs from this system
	when using VTX V5.x. If your system runs VTX V5, it is  suggested
	that you invoke VTX with the CLASSIC qualifier: $ VTX/CLASSIC PAK 
Have you tried this to see if it works better?

>  and attempted to save the pak script, the fun really began.
>  At the VTX command> prompt I entered save as instructed (silly me).
>  The instructions on the previous page tell you to choose original
>  for the page format.  Well guess what, there is no orignal page
>  format choice.  The choices from hell are
>            DEC VMS MAIL (MCS) --> What is MCS? I use SMTP mail.
>            VT300 (DEC ANSI) --> what does this mean, I'll get terminal 
>                                 control chars in my file?
>            As stored on server  --> anyones guess as to this format?
>            Ascii 7bits
>            7Bits Line Printer
>            DEC LN03 printer

I agree that this menu is a REAL pain (the filename doesn't overstrike so you
have to arrow over to the end and delete back so you can enter a filename). I
used to be able to use the <pf1>5 SAVE command and it worked MUCH easier (was
this the vtx/classic version?).

>  O.K. I've tried the first four choices and given my unix node
>  at /usr/tmp/VIDEOTEX.TXT for a file name.
>
>  Guess what I got.  You'll love this, a file over 4000 lines long.
>  with every character on it's own line.  I had to spend 10 minutes
>  to write a program to straighten it out, so I could actually use
>  it.
>
>  There must be an easier way, please tell me there is an easier
>  way.

I would suggest using the VMS MAIL option to a file on the local VMS node and 
either printing the file or FTPing the file to your UNIX box.

Dan Buckley, CT dc and VMS partner 
(heavy user of temp paks for customers in crisis!)

    In your case "As stored on server" was what you wanted, however
    specifing unix node and / would be a problem also.  If you're
    running the VMS client, it would want a vms filename (and " "
    probably wouldn't parse - nothing fancy).
    
    As for possible other options..
================================================================================

Open VMS kits (VAX and Alpha):
  HNGOVR::GALPUB$:[VTX$PUBLIC.V62.VAX]VTX062.%
  HNGOVR::GALPUB$:[VTX$PUBLIC.V62.AXP]VTXA062.%
	    Copy with FTSV and use VMSINSTAL. Release notes are in plain
	    text.

MS-DOS client:
  HNGOVR::GALPUB$:[VTX$PUBLIC.V62.MSDOS]VTX060_DOS.BCK
	    Copy with FTSV; restore with BACKUP; Copy with NFT COPY/BLOCK
	    or mount directory with restored files using PathWorks.

Ultrix client:
  HNGOVR::GALPUB$:[VTX$PUBLIC.V62.MIPS]VTX620.TAR
	    Copy with 'dcp -i' or push with FTSV. Use 'setld'

Mac client (now called Teamlinks Library Services V1.0 for Mac):
  HNGOVR::GALPUB$:[VTX$PUBLIC.MAC.V10]TLSMAC.SEA
	 Copy the TLSMAC.SEA file to your mac by using  your usual           
   	 method of copying files from VMS  (e.g. NetCopy).

	 Double click on the TLSMAC.SEA icon and install the TLS
   	 Installer folder onto your hard drive.

	 When the TLS Installer folder is installed then open the
   	 folder and follow the instructions in the TLS Read Me to
   	 Install TeamLinks Library Services on your mac.
                                                                        

Windows client (now re-named Teamlinks Library Services V2.5
for Windows) is in currently in EFT.
The latest pre-release kit (English only) is available at:
  HNGOVR::CDAP$:[VTX.ECULLEN.VTX.25APR95.ENU]disk%.dir

> That (ech!) is paying the bills while WNT and Unix build volumes high enough
> to keep us all employed. Bad mouthing ANY of our products hurts Digital.

While this is true, it is also true that prolonged infatuation with that
(ech!) is why Digital is not a $40B and growing company today.  The
company until a couple of years ago refused to invest in the success of
anything but that (ech!) and is paying dearly for it now.

The writer of the original note is expressing his extreme discomfort with
using a VMS system.  He has every right to do so internally.  I trust that
when it comes to customer contacts, he like me will never bad mouth any
Digital product.

By the way, I am encouraged at the way things are changing!  At the Alcor
announcement yesterday, I didn't catch a single mention of VMS!  As far
as desktop is concerned VMS is dead, and we are wisely not throwing money
at it (except for the rumor I hear that we will port CDE to it!)

Ram

    
    "As stored on server" is what you want.
    Send it to a file on your vms system.
    ftp that to the Unix system.
    Then follow the directions below, cross-posted from another conference.
    
    And, whilst I agree that the usability offenses of VTX are legion, Unix
    is not exactly the Archetype of Usability either :-) so perhaps we
    could all stop throwing glasses at stone houses now.
    
    	/john
    
    
               <<< AOSG::USERC:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ALPHA_OSF.NOTE;2 >>>
            -< This conferernce has moved to TURRIS::DIGITAL_UNIX >-
================================================================================
Note 4824.5                     I hate "VTX PAK"                          5 of 8
NETRIX::thomas "The Code Warrior"                    14 lines  21-MAR-1994 12:27
              -< My ex script for LMF: usage -- ex $file <lmf.ex >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
g;\$ LICENSE REGISTER; s;$ LICENSE REGISTER \([A-Za-z0-9_.\-]*\) -.*$;Product Na
me: \1;
g;/ISSUER=;     s;^/ISSUER="\(.*\)" -.*$;Issuer:        \1;
g;/AUTHORIZATION=;      s;^/AUTHORIZATION=\([A-Z0-9-]*\) -.*$;Authorization Numb
er:     \1;
g;/PRODUCER=;   s;^/PRODUCER="\(.*\)" -.*$;Producer:    \1;
g;/UNITS=;      s;^/UNITS=\([0-9]*\) -.*$;Number of units:      \1;
g;/DATE=;       s;^/DATE=\([A-Z0-9-]*\) .*$;Product Release Date:       \1;
g;/ACTIVITY=;   s;^/ACTIVITY=\(.*\) -.*$;Activity Table Code:   \1;
g;/OPTIONS=;    s;^/OPTIONS=(\(.*\)) -.*$;Key Options:  \1;
g;/TOKEN=;      s;^/TOKEN=\(.*\) -.*$;Product Token:    \1;
g;/CHECKSUM=;   s;^/CHECKSUM=\(.*\)$;Checksum:  \1;
wq

Re: .2, I am not sure that I understand why we have an up-to-date ULTRIX 
client, but no Digital UNIX (nee OSF/1) client...

But the main point that I want to make is that this is all starting to become
dangerously moot.  THERE IS NOBODY MAINTAINING THE DATABASE for VTX PAK!!!

I will say it again:

There is NOBODY maintaining the database for VTX PAK.

We have been trying for months to get a new PAK set up, and there is nobody
at the wheel (that we can find, if you know of somebody who is doing this,
then PLEASE let us know!!!)

That means that as products change licensing requirements, add new
features/licenses, and as new products come out, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE
THEM!!  because the engineering teams are not able to get the new PAKs into
VTX.

Can you tell that I'm frustrated by this?

If ANYONE has information on how to get this straightened out, please
come forth.  Otherwise, we're in for some more trouble...

Kevin

> 
>        NOTICE: There have been problems retrieving PAKs from this system
>        when using VTX V5.x. If your system runs VTX V5, it is  suggested
>        that you invoke VTX with the CLASSIC qualifier: $ VTX/CLASSIC PAK 
>Have you tried this to see if it works better?

  Yes, and it was worse.  My FKB4700 keyboard (what comes with the
 AlphaStation 400's) doesn't have any of those pf keys, to enable  
 me to use the "classic vtx".  pf1 is a num lock key now.

> I would suggest using the VMS MAIL option to a file on the local VMS node

  Thanks for the suggestion but that failed also with the new VTX, DEC VMS
  MAIL option.  All I got was errors creating the file.

********************************************************************************
re. .2

  Thanks for the pointer to the other kit options.  I'm also surprised that
  there was no Digital UNIX version.

********************************************************************************
re. .4

  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the script pointer, but doesn't it seem
  crazy that one should have to write one (actually I didn't have to alter
  case in the program I wrote, I just needed to clean up cr/lf's).  This is
  after jumping through hoops to get the malformed file onto my unix box.

********************************************************************************

re. .5

  If there is no one maintaining the vtx pak database, then it's time to
  give it the boot.  These paks should be distributed via the web by now.
  If Digital doesn't have someone responsible for vtx pak, then we need to
  jettison it, and the lmf licensing scheme.

********************************************************************************
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    I have never liked the way PAKS work and believe they have cost us much
    more in customer dissatisfaction, lost time and grumbling than we have
    saved by preventing piracy. 
    
    The HSZ40 is a bit better.  One can enable the features without the
    license, but one gets annoying messages.
    
    On the other hand I recently had to install the HAL Computer DCE CELL
    Manager software and that uses the netls stuff which is even worse.
    
    I believe that so few major customers willfully cheat that the only
    problem we have is to make it clear when customers are in violation of
    our licensing terms.  A very benign licensing system that prints out a
    'license violation' message whenever root logs in would be sufficient.  
    
    Some will say the glass is half full, our licensing is better than
    nothing.  Others will say it is half empty, that it has some major problems. 
    I guess I fit with the re-engineering crowd and ask why we need so many
    glasses.
    
    The VMS/UNIX interoperability is another issue entirely.  I will start
    a new note with what I have learned in the last few days.
    
    
    

RE: .6

	You're right, if PAKS were up on the web, you'd then have
	a universal interface for getting at them. The question is,
	who is going to fund doing that.

						mike

Since nobody is maintaining VTX PAK I can't even get a PAK because
I'm a new hire and my name and badge number is not in the database...

I have to ask someone else in my Cost Center to get one for me,
a real nuisance, especially when I need one and no one is around...

I inquired via email and this is the response I got:

>Currently all work on VTX PAK has been suspended
>pending funding approval. Once we have approval, 
>we will contact you regarding a resolution to 
>your PAK issue.

I got this on April 25th...still no follow on mail...

IMO some of the tools we use in this company, (yes including VTX) are an
embarrassment.

-Stephen

P.S. CDE on VMS???? How about CDE on Ultrix?? Are our customers who have all
those DECstations supposed to just throw them away?

Former .10 deleted because it quoted a mail message without permission of
the message's author.

			Steve - co-moderator

.9� P.S. CDE on VMS???? How about CDE on Ultrix?? Are our customers who have all
.9� those DECstations supposed to just throw them away?

No, they were supposed to "upgrade" them to AlphaStations. As far as I know,
there was a pretty generous offer - for some time at least.

Hans.

    A little off the subject, but I just spent the last hour looking for
    the "temporary software pak" option under VTX. I used to use "VTX
    ACCESS_US". This doesn't work any more and the referenced goto
    locations did not pan out ether. I need a 14 day temp pack real soon
    for a customer. 
    
    	Can anyone post the keyword pointer for the 14 day temp. customer
    pak?
    
    Thanks,
    jim
    

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. 
    
    	I got four screens of errors put it came up and I'm all set.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    jim