Conference 7.286::digital

| Direct statements taking on HP Sun and SGI...actually ran visual benchmarks
| against all the machines on stage...the audience was audibly gasping!!

Out of curiosity. Who gasped, or rather who attended the show? Was it a DEC
only event or were there actually new prospective WS customers?

>Per

Not sure who the audience was (I watched it on DVN) but it looked like
there were a lot of people...it was definately not a Digital only event...

    It was a lot of the same-old/same-old.
    
    And that jerk "artist" at the end was an absolute *EMBARASSMENT*.

    Well I found it an incredible experience, and I was sitting next to my
    customer in the second row worrying about paint splatters!
    
    My customer who runs his applications on SUN, HP, SGI and ALPHA/KUBOTA
    (so you know how happy he was with Digital), was knocked out by the
    presentation.  His company does Surgical Simulation Software and needs
    very high fp and high end graphics.  We have just what the doctor
    ordered.
    
    Scott Williams
    Workstation Warrior FY 95
    ? fy 96

One speaker showed an overhead of a WEB page featuring the new products,
but but did not provide the web page address. Anyone found it yet ?

I was impressed. I don't agree that it was the same old stuff. We've got
the hottest boxes on the planet! Spread the word.

Mark

	re .5
	
	connect to the external Digital page and follow the "Flash"
	
	Jay

re .4

>>We have just what the doctor ordered.

Pun intended right?


;^)

    TRY http://www.digital.com  then surf away!
    
        Ken...

    For Europe this would have been an evening broadcast & the DVN was not
    shown, however a Pal Master tape of this event is on order from the USA 
    and VHS PAL copies will shortly be available from Margaret Flanagan @ILO
    
    It would be most helpful if you were to place your order now stating:
    
    	 Your Name:
    	 Your external Postal Address:
    	 Your cost centre: 
    
    					Nick
    				( DVN Operations, Geneva )

If you are in the US, how can you order a tape of the DVN?

Thanks

Mike

p.s. This was an exciting announcement and I am proud.
     I think we had GREAT messages, real meat to back up our claims
     and the best workstation in the history of the industry.  We will
     have to work to keep this, but this was a proud day.

	The tape of this product announcement will be orderable through
	the Integrated Repository (VTX IR).  If its not up already it 
	will be soon.

	Norma Frye
	DVN 

Also participating in the announcement was Evans & Sutherland...

They have a really nice home page: http://www.es.com/

-Stephen

From:	PERFOM::CSGPERF "NEW NAME - CSD Performance Group  20-Jul-1995 1322" 20-JUL-1995 14:07
To:	@REPORTS
CC:	CSGPERF
Subj:	Updated AlphaStation Digital UNIX Performance Flash now available


     +-------------+ TM
     | | | | | | | |
     |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|      I N T E R O F F I C E    M E M O R A N D U M
     | | | | | | | |
     +-------------+


     TO: Distribution			 DATE: July 20, 1995
                                         FROM: Lee Allison
                                         DEPT: CSD Performance Group
                                         LOC : ZK02-3/M31	
                                         DTN : 381-0343 
                                         TEL:  603-881-0343
                                         ENET: PERFOM::CSGPERF 
                                               [email protected]


  SUBJECTS: Updated AlphaStation Digital UNIX Performance Flash
            and June 1995 "SPEC Newsletter" now available online

  Digital AlphaStation Digital UNIX Performance Flash--  

  Highlights: (1) Introducing Digital's newest AlphaStation systems--

                  AlphaStation 600 5/266 with 2 MB cache
                  AlphaStation 600 5/266 with 4 MB cache
                  AlphaStation 600 5/300 with 4 MB cache
                    
              (2) Reporting their performance
                  results based on industry-standard and 
                  industry-recognized benchmarks and workloads under
                  the Digital UNIX operating system
			
  CSD PG is pleased to announce the availability of the following AlphaStation 
  performance documents:

  PERFOM::CSG_REPORTS:UNIX_WS_PERF_FLASH_950717.PS, -
                          UNIX_WS_PERF_FLASH_950717.TXT

  Note: The .TXT file is in ASCII format and must be printed in landscape mode,
        i.e., 132 columns wide.

  Please note that these performance documents may be given to customers. 
  Additionally, they will be available, in about a week, from:

        1.  Digital's Internet address gatekeeper.dec.com in the 
            /pub/Digital/DECinfo/performance/sys

        2. Digital's WWW in the Digital Products and Services database

        3. $ VTX IR 2 PB database




  June 1995 "SPEC Newsletter"

  CSDPG also has the June 1995 "SPEC Newsletter" available online. The
  files are located at PERFOM::CSG_SPEC. 

  Please read the PERFOM::CSG_SPEC:$_README_FIRST.TXT file for
  newsletter contents and directions on printing and distributing copies of 
  the newsletter.

  We are interested in hearing any comments you have regarding these
  documents. Please send comments, questions, and suggestions to 
  PERFOM::CSGPERF or [email protected].
  

	I pulled the "Performance Flash" on the new workstations, A lot of the
	benchmark numbers are there, but two benchmarks in particular are 
	missing:

	They are the TPC and AIM benchmarks. I'm interested in seeing in 
	particular what the TPC-C and AIM numbers for these systems. Are we not
	doing these anymore?

	Rick C.

Apparently we consider TPC and AIM to be "server" benchmarks, so we don't
run them on workstations.

	I was in the process of searching for AIM/TPC-C numbers while reading
	about the "new workstation" announcement, put in my note "not thinking".
	I agree that TPC-C is a server based benchmark, AIM I believe may
	apply to both (servers/workstations). The problem I'm having is finding
	any TPC-C or AIM numbers on any of our systems (Servers Included).

	Rick C.

�                     <<< Note 3990.17 by JALOPY::CUTLER >>>
�                             -< Sorry About That >-

�	I was in the process of searching for AIM/TPC-C numbers while reading
�	about the "new workstation" announcement, put in my note "not thinking".
�	I agree that TPC-C is a server based benchmark, AIM I believe may
�	apply to both (servers/workstations). The problem I'm having is finding
�	any TPC-C or AIM numbers on any of our systems (Servers Included).

Right, I doubt that you'd see TPC-C numbers for any of the Workstation 
class systems (can't speak for AIM benchmarks).   I believe that TPC-C is 
being looked for the Server class systems but a TPC official benchmark is a 
pretty extensive effort from getting the human beings to set things up 
through acquiring sufficient hardware to setup and run the benchmark and 
getting an official audit (required by TPC prior to releasing numbers).  
(And if you're not go to the effort to do a splashy number it's really not
worth the effort to do one at all :) 

    Thanks to support of people who attended this event live, in S-F,
    we will now be broadcasting it on the European DVN Network on 
    Wed. 26th July at 10am BST & 11am CET/Europe. Great opportunity for
    European Digital Employees, Partners & Customers to participate in an 
    outstanding event, and fill our 6000 DVN auditoriums seats to capacity, 
    and show it again.

    re: TPC/AIM - both of these benchmarks take substantially longer to run
    than the benchmarks typically published at system announcement.  TPC
    is the hardest - in fact it's not a benchmark at all; it's a 
    *specification* of how a vendor can go *write* a benchmark.  AIM 
    at least includes source code.
    
    Sometimes we have "estimates" that are not auditted and not
    published but can be given out under non-disclosure.  If you have a 
    need for a specific AIM/TPC estimate, send MAIL to PERFOM::CSGPERF to ask,
    and be sure to state business need-to-know.  (In some cases you may be 
    sent off to product marketing for the system to plead your need to know.)
    If you can accept an alternative estimate, say so ("My customer wants 
    AIM VII, but would probably settle for an AIM III estimate")
    
       /John Henning
        CSD Performance Group

�                     <<< Note 3990.20 by PERFOM::HENNING >>>
�                    -< Use the email hotline for questions >-

�    re: TPC/AIM - both of these benchmarks take substantially longer to run
�    than the benchmarks typically published at system announcement.  TPC
�    is the hardest - in fact it's not a benchmark at all; it's a 
�    *specification* of how a vendor can go *write* a benchmark.  AIM 
�    at least includes source code.

Isn't a specification what a benchmark really is?  The spec is what vendors
use to measure their product against a known, defined set of tasks.  The
TPC benchmark specs are pretty specific and well defined, specifying things
like what the screens look like and what the queries should look like and
what level of data consistency should be provided.  At least for Oracle
Rdb, writing the benchmark is the least time-consuming part of generating a
TPC number.  It's all the other work that I mentioned (hardware acquisition
and setup as well as application and database tuning) that is
time-intensive.  The actual audit run takes about a day... getting ready
for the audit on the other hand... ;) 
    

    Re basenote, I suggest that I extract these and put them on the
    internal ALphaStations Business Group home page. Your thoughts?
    Bruce

Re. -1

That certainly makes sense...this was definately an AlphaStation centic
event...

Part of the purpose of my base note as well was to cheer Digital Marketing
for an outstanding show, regardless of the announcement...IMHO I view this
event as unique, in that Digital took some risk here, and it shows a lot
of savy and fire...makes this Digit proud.

-Stephen

    The video is now listed in VTX IR
    
    Catalog ID: VI565W
    Title: DVN: The Superpower in Workstation Computing
    

    Re: .21 - yup, writing the bmark is not as hard as setting up and
    running it; but with many benchmarks you don't have to write them, you
    only have to set up and run them.
    
    And yes the final audit is short compared to preparing for the audit. 
    Kind of like the final exam in a class that keeps you up all night 
    throughout the semester.

|    	I pulled the "Performance Flash" on the new workstations, A lot of the
|	benchmark numbers are there, but two benchmarks in particular are 
|	missing:
|
|    	They are the TPC and AIM benchmarks.
    
    I knew I should have moved the AIM results to the "front" page.
    There are *TWO* pages to this flash.
    
    
    But when you say TPC and AIM benchmarks, I have to ask....
    
    TPC-A?  TPC-B?  TPC-C?  TPC-*?
    AIM III?  AIM VI?  AIM VII?
    
    Anyway, AIM VI is in there for the AlphaStation 600 5/300.  And
    the AlphaStation 200 4/233 as well.
    
    
    On TPC-* benchmarks - I expect you will continue to see these as
    higher priority for servers and far lower priority for workstations.
    
    								-mr. bill

Bill,

   I found the AIM numbers, the TPC numbers I was interested in were TPC-C. 

	Thanks,

	Rick C.

�                     <<< Note 3990.27 by JALOPY::CUTLER >>>
�                                 -< Found Aim >-

�   I found the AIM numbers, the TPC numbers I was interested in were TPC-C. 

TPC-C numbers for Oracle Rdb are being worked on but I don't know if/when 
they'll be ready for audit and release (and I can't speak for Oracle7 -C 
numbers).

I understand that -A and -B numbers are no longer accepted by TPC so you 
probably won't see new ones of those again.

    
    TPC-C benchmarking is MUCH more than running the benchmarks and even
    auditing.  As stated by Bill and John H. we do NOT do TPC-C on
    workstations.  Many of the TPC-C results we have done on AlphaServer
    have not necessarily been release since the desision is NOT ours;
    
    We Digital must get approval from each 3rd party database, the hardware
    marketing, operating system and a 5-year pricing of clients, RTE,
    terminals, warrentees etc must be performed.  We hope for more results
    now that Oracle appears to be playing the TPC benchmark game (after
    the TPC council voted against Oracle discrete transactions in TPC-A,
    Oracle stopped allowing TPC benchmarks for 2 years).
    
    For an example of a full disclosure (FDR) required for audits see;
    
    	PERFOM::TPC:*Alphaserver*.ps
    
    Also there are updated TPC reports for all competitive systems in this
    area.

    Sorry its PERFOM::CSG_TPC:*2100*.ps 
    for an example and
    	      PERFOM::CSG_TPC:TP*.ps
    for competitive summary

    For those of you in the Nashua, NH area, we will be showing the video 
    tape in the Cauchy C/R, ZKO3-1, on Thursday 8/3/95 from 12:00 noon to
    1:00pm
    
    Mark