Conference 7.286::digital

    This is the kind of thing Digital's left hand implements while its
    right hand is preaching about the importance of "The voice of the
    customer". The voice of the resellers I deal with says they're even
    more confused than I am (that's not easy). Sad, isn't it. 

    It doesn't matter what you are smoking/inhaling/swallowing, our
    warranty situation is so complex that it took a guy 30 minutes to try
    and explain how to figure it out from the shipping notice and compare
    it to 3 or 4 different printouts he'd found, that based on the distance
    from the Sun, times the Earth's circumference, divided by the shipping
    charges, "Uh, I dunno...". This from a guy who "thought" he knew it,
    till he tried to explain it.
    
    I turn in a lead on every install, to have the warranty changed,
    *after* installation, to regular everyday 9x5 on-site, for x years.
    Period. No fancy return-to-dec (RTD) crap. Right, like you are gonna
    box up a 21" monitor and mail it back when it breaks after 367 days.
    Right. Like we'll even know 1) who you are, 2) that warranty applies.
    
    If it's hard to use, or confusing. Let's get it fixed. Volunteers?
    
    .mike.

RE: .2

	The costs are not all in the hardware Thomas.

							mike

    Ahem.  Ah....try calling your MCS Sales rep.  S/he should turn it around
    for you in 5 minutes...
    
    Just mail them the quote....
    
    

I know how to do it and after a while I also understood it. ;)

But it's very time-consuming. Yesterday I spoke to a customer and when he asked
me, why we are doing such a mess, I explained, that this is state of the art,
other companys are doing it also and so on and so on. He said, that this is
not true! Other companys are still having 1 year warranty and it's much
easier for the customer.

I wonder, why our marketing department told me, that this is state of the art?
It seems to be not. So why doing such a mess?

Stefan� 

    RE. .5 - Yeah, right! The MCS reps don't want to be bothered by every
    quote that sales ptus out. Beside that, my experience is that they
    can't consistently figure this stuff out either.
    
    RE. .6 - Somehow I doubt that anyone has really figured this stuff out.
    Beside that, the changes made just this week would seem to indicate
    that some form of self-defense mechanism has been built intot he sytem
    so that if too many people get too close to figuring it out, the system
    makes immediate changes to new and even more confusing new rules and
    pricing structures.
    
    If you believe that you have figured this out, post the part numbers to
    take the original example - a building block AlphaStation 3000-800 with
    64MB of memory (part number PE440-NA) and 2 RZ28 disks added, a TLZ0X tabletop tape added and 
    a 21" monitor added. Take the whole thing to 5 X 9 DECservice Warranty 
    for three years.
    
    If I wanted to be really cruel, I'd ask your to "upgrade" a two
    processor VAX4700 DSSI Cluster to a dual processor AlphaServer 2100
    DSSI cluster with a STORAGEWORKS Array and try to figure out the SW 
    license trade-ins as well the warranty issues. You'd be carted away to
    the funny farm before you ever got that right. 
    
    The original point was that both our systems AND the new stovepipe 
    organizational structure are contributing to the problem. We can't have
    the folks who put out STORAGEWORKS products being completely oblivious
    to the needs of the folks who try to configure those products into
    systems. The same can now be said about Network Products, which now
    have their own, unique warranties. Try to explain to a customer why the
    "system" that he just bought is made up of components - all from
    Digital - that have 4-5 different warranties, with different
    expirations and different coverage levels AND that there's no way,
    short of him just giving up the warranties that he's already paid for,
    to get him on a single, consistent coverage.
    
    -OFWAMI-
            

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    .8  Yeah right, and your MCS rep doesn't want to earn money either. 
    	Sheesh!  Send every quote!
    
    	If your MCS rep can't figure it out, then escalate to their manager
    	immediately.  There is no excuse for not getting the job done in
    	a mutually acceptable timeframe.  
    
    	Nothing is perfect, but MCS has a lot of hard working individuals
    	and groups that are doing on average, a very good job.
      
    I am not inclined to work your example, but if you have a real life
    issue and need to escalate, you should do so.  If for some reason you
    do not know how/who to escalate, please feel free to call me and I will
    help.
    
    Faithfully
    
    Mark   

    RE: Last few ..
    
    >>.. call in the MCS rep.
    
    The fact that this what we suggest as the remedy (call in an expert) is
    just plain sick. If you need an expert to quote it, it's too complex!
    
    Reminds me of when I was in the field ... someone came to talk to us
    one day about a course they were planning to teach customers how to do
    business with Digital. Oh BARF!  God forbid we would ever think about
    fixing the complexity problem!
    
    2�
    
    /se
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    RE. .9 - The example I used was real. I did call MCS. There is no way
    to get there from here. I finally ended up having a CS base rep quote a 
    day-one maintenance contract which essentially screwed the customer out 
    of any value for the RTF warranties that were included. By the way, I
    discovered that those warranties are valued at $0. in the field, since
    MCS logistics apparently gets no expense relief if they go fix something 
    with one of those warranties. And why may you ask would you end up with
    one of those warranties anyway? Because thngs like the monitor only
    come with that type of warranty, with no warranty upgrade part numbers.
    And that AlphaStation building block part number - there isn't any part
    number to upgrade that warranty. 
    
    And which way should I go to get home from here, Alice ask the cat...
    
    -OFWAMI-

    Ladies and Gentlemen, it can be done.  You can get there from here. 
    The way to do it is to team up with your MCS rep.  Don't look at it
    like  you are calling in an expert, call in your partner.
    
    If you feel more comfortable with a varient, we'll create one.  If you
    need a consistent warranty accross your system, we'll provide one.  If
    you want to fully understand how to do it, so you don't have to
    call anyone, then submit your resume and join the team :)
    
    
    

    I don't think that you understand the situation.  You obviously sit 
    at a desk.  Life in the trench's is a little bit different.  I am an FE
    and have given up trying to explain any warrenty to anyone. My wife is
    the purchasing director at a local college and she gets the same
    warrently run-a-round from Digital and all of Digital's vendors.  No
    one knows what is going on or can even figure it out.
    
    Digital sure makes life complicated for the FE.  Just look at the
    number of National Accounts that we have, and everyone has a different
    hot-button and different rules and regulations.  Call this number when
    you get on site, call that number when you leave, call another number
    when you close the call.  I worked on a telephone system today!  How
    did we get tangled up with the telephone industry?
    
    I guess I went off the deep-end, just venting my frustrations.
    Seriously, if I wanted to work on telephones I would have went to work
    for the telephone company!  I wanted to work on computers, that's why I
    went to work for Digital.  Darn-it!, there I go again.  I'd better sign
    off before I say too much.
    
    Enjoy,,,
    

>>                 -< Digital needs to define what Digital is! >-
    
MCS = Multivendor Customer Service
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    I don't think that you understand the situation.  You obviously sit 
>>    at a desk.  Life in the trench's is a little bit different.
    
    Oh pleeeease! Ha!  A desk??  What the hell is that?  Sheesh. :-) 
    Actually, my title is Sales Executive (wow), MCS.  In other words, I
    am in the stinking trench selling new services....every freakin day! 
    (crazy....but I love it!)
     
>    I am an FE
>    and have given up trying to explain any warrenty to anyone. My wife is
>    the purchasing director at a local college and she gets the same
>    warrently run-a-round from Digital and all of Digital's vendors.  No
>    one knows what is going on or can even figure it out.
 
    I aint sayin it's perfect or even great, but it can be a no brainer,
    well, it should be....just explain to your MCS rep what coverage you
    want and s/he will tell you what it will cost if anything...
       
>    Digital sure makes life complicated for the FE.  Just look at the
>    number of National Accounts that we have, and everyone has a different
>    hot-button and different rules and regulations.  Call this number when
>    you get on site, call that number when you leave, call another number
>    when you close the call.  
    
    I guess you mean that we have a lot of national accounts?  I could be
    wrong.  You might not mean that.  I wouldn't think so, as I've seen the
    number go down down DOWN over the last couple of years.
    
>    I worked on a telephone system today!  How
>    did we get tangled up with the telephone industry?
 
    A telephone system??  really?  REALLY??  THAT IS FREAKIN GREAT!!! I
    love it.  More! More!  Hey, wait a minute, what do you mean "tangled
    up"??  You mean you're upset???!!!  
    
    We service anything we can do a good job on and make a profit at it. 
    We'd be nuts to turn down a profitable opportunity to service
    telephones.  I'd like the name and number of whoever sold that deal so
    I can leverage some opportunity in my area!!  Wow!
    
    I've sold Synoptics Hub, Cisco router, HP printer, Epson printer,
    Emulex card, Wacom Tablet, Quicktake camera, RF frequency scanner
    (guns, flatbeds and transmitters), and much much more service, all of
    which is not computers....  profit! 
       
    >>I guess I went off the deep-end, just venting my frustrations.
   >> Seriously, if I wanted to work on telephones I would have went to work
   >> for the telephone company!  I wanted to work on computers, that's why I
   >> went to work for Digital.  Darn-it!, there I go again.  I'd better sign
    >>off before I say too much.
    
    Huh?  What?  I don't know, maybe this a class warfare type thingy?? 
    Telephone systems are low end???  :-)  Ah, times are changing.  Look at
    it like a learning experience.  I look at it like a golden opportunity
    to expand into a whole new area/././
    
                                        

        re: -.1

    GO GET 'EM.... I'm in MCS Sales too, and all of us should be thankful
    that there are people out there creative enough and confident enough in
    Digital's FE's to be able to sell a solution for telephone systems. 
    BTW, if I'm not mistaken, -.2 was an MCI deal that is nationwide and
    brought digital MILLIONS in revenue with little expense......

    Larry, turn off the tears.... Put a smile on your face... thank God
    that we have a (what I consider) great job that comes with a paycheck,
    and we get to deal with our customer's every day.  I've learned just
    exactly how committed and loyal our customers REALLY are over the last
    couple of months.

    Now, back to the warranty issue..... There are MANY creative ways to
    get the customer the warranty they WANT!! which I feel is the biggest
    issue here.  The only way for a "product" sales rep to do it
    efficiently is to engage his MCS Sales partner, either New Business or
    Base.  I'm of the opinion, regardless of my groups charter, that if
    someone needs a quote, I'll get it to them.  I've also found that the
    number of people concerned about their "credit" for working these deals
    -vs- servicing the customer has dwindled tremendously.  HERE, HERE....
    
    So... Engage your MCS Sales Rep, your MCS Customer Support
    Administrator, your Customer Order Management Specialist, or anyone
    else that SHOULD be a part of the account team, put your heads together
    to come up with the PERFECT solution for your customer..... NOBODY can
    do it alone...
    
    Toodles.....JPs
    

    Re: .last

    IMO Crap.  Its been a few years since I've been in the Sales side
    of the house, but I don't think my opinion has been totally
    devalued.

    The only reason we should need a separate MCS Sales force is for
    opportunities that would not come to Digital through its normal
    product channels (the MCI deal is a good example).  And I hope
    those folks are wildly successful.  The majority of our product
    should be going through Distributers, VARs and tiered VARs and
    catalog sales.  They should be able to configure warranty and
    value-added service for standard Digital product without
    additional help beyond the catalogs and price books

    I used to be able to present a product family to a customer at a
    meeting or two, hand him/her a SOG and a price book, and a day or
    two later (sometimes the same afternoon) get a menu of valid RFQs
    from that customer each reflecting a different potential
    configuration.  I could quote those configurations in under an
    hour.  This was with configurations that ran a quarter million
    dollars or more with 40% or higher margins.  And I usually didn't
    have much competitive pressure once the sale got to that stage.
    Actually I wouldn't say we were selling, but helping the customer
    make a purchase (subtle difference).

    Today, margins are razor-thin, products are cheap, configuration
    is a nightmare and every competitor in the world is just waiting
    to pounce on the customer's wallet.  The last thing we need to do
    is add complexity, time, and price to the purchase process.

	Mike

    I hate to burst the bubbles of our MCS friends in here, but my
    team at DEC-SALE spends a LOT of time stepping MCS reps through
    scenarios similar to the one described in the base note.  Could
    you support all distributors in your area if they were calling
    you for help?
    
    DON'T send off a message to an MCS rep and expect an answer back in
    5/10 minutes; for some it can be a 3/4 day ordeal depending on the 
    size of the quote.
    
    You're missing the basenoter's point; it shouldn't be this complicated
    or time consuming.  Who gets to TEAM with our distributors, VARs and
    OEMs?  Our queues at DEC-SALE get backed up on the best of days, but
    we've been getting killed by these warranty changes.  FM warranty
    uplift part #s got changed last weekend (no cross reference on quote
    system to replacement part #s); DEC-SALE didn't have replacement
    numbers in advance (although we do have them now).  We got some info
    on Monday and a team leader practically killed herself to get us
    cheat sheets so we could handle the deluge of calls coming in.  By
    Wednesday, our team leader was re-doing this sheets due to additional
    changes!!!!  The field was given no notification of this at all;
    people called screaming on Monday because part numbers that were good
    the previous Friday were put in maintenance.
    
    After spending 1 1/2 hours with an Avnet rep yesterday he told me
    "Karen, I'm really excited about the new products Digital has; it's
    gotten to be fun selling your stuff, but when it comes to warranty
    you people are out of your bleeping minds.  Who went off the deep
    end?"
    
    

    Sorry, I guess this is a SALES REP ONLY conference.  
    
    By the way, starting today, each SALES REP will have to go down to
    Millers Hardware and sell plumbing supplies on Monday, Joe' Service
    Station and sell mufflers on Tuesdays, Freddies Refrigeration on
    Wednesdays and sell air-conditioning parts and compressors, Mary's
    Garden Supply on Thursdays and sell fertilizer, and on Fridays you
    can sell Digital stuff.  You must call in when you get on-site, call in
    when ever you sell something, and call in when you leave. 
    
    Remember, you have to be an expert in each of these areas. I'm sure 
    Mary won't mind.
    
    

    Very entertaining.
    FWIW I was an FE for much years. My last job was SBS delivery. All I
    did was installations for 3 years. This was in 87-90. The warranty
    situation was just what the base noter describes at that time. The more
    things change , the more they stay the same.
    I would suggest our FE friend take a deep breath. I can assure him if
    he eventually wins the battle and gets the numbers right, the paperwork
    will dissappear and come back wrong. You cannot fix this stuff, the
    folks in the Ivory Towers are surounded by the likes of our MCS
    cheerleader contributor. There is no problem that can't be explained if
    you are allowed to use the phrase "..yes, but..". With that you can
    admit and deny  the problem all at once. How convenient.
    Your FE efforts in front of the customer are what keeps you and
    him(her) on the same side. Some of my best moments have been sharing
    horror stories with customers about a supposedly technology company
    that could be so clueless.
    It may be ugly, but its my baby! 

    Insist that people do their job.  That way individuals can make a
    difference.

re. 16

That brings it to the point. Margins are damn low and the amount of work
is increasing more and more. That's what's wrong with the warranty-business.

Stefan� 

>  That brings it to the point. Margins are damn low and the amount of work
>  is increasing more and more. That's what's wrong with the warranty-business.

The warranty business can still be highly profitable if you get a lot of volume and
are cost-efficient enough to make a small amount of money off each piece of low-price
work.  Consider warranty service for consumer electronics.

    Clearly we're not cost-efficient in the warranty business - if it takes
    this much for the Sales folks to figure out what they need.
    
    Oh, but that's someone else's pocket.. Sorry..
    
    
    From the sidelines, this sounds like:
    
    a: We have a serious problem!
    b: No you don't! We have that all fixed!
    a: But when I use the "fix", it's even worse!
    b: You must be doing something wrong.
    a: But I'm not the only one! Ask most any customer! ask distributors!
    b: Well, we think this works OK.
    a: $@#&
    
    ...tom (stockholder): Geez...
    
    ...tom

    
    Thanks DPDMAI::WILSONM, I needed and understanding ear.
    
    

    We have a large customer with lots of DEC stuff on a maintenance
    agreement. They asked us to cover a couple of TI (Texas Instruments)
    color printers for them. "No problem" I tell them. I call up TI to set
    up a subcontract to have them service them on our behalf. The nice lady
    that answers the phone at TI askes for the serial numbers. She types
    them into her computer and instantly know who owns it, how old they,
    what type of warranty applies, and when it expires.
    
    Until DEC can do the same thing, with _ANY_ device we sell, it won't
    matter how easy it is to quote warranty on the sale. We will still be
    giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars of free service every
    year, and wasting thousands of man-hours of labor researching
    customer warranty claims. The MCS engineers in the field are far too
    busy running from call to call to spend hours researching warranty
    issues ... so they often just take care of the customer and move on
    to the next call, whether the customer really deserves warranty
    service or not.

    Hear, hear!  We need to get our act together like TI!  Then we will 
    make some serious money!

re.25:

Haha! We don't even know which serial n�s ship to which customer or even dec n�!
I know this because a new printer I'd ordered was stolen and manufacturing could
not tell me the serial n� given the dec n�. Perhaps the thief knew it could not
be traced?

Dave.

    IMHO, our warranty situation is terrible. It is next to impossible for
    an ABU (or SBU for that matter) rep to "level" warrantees on a multiple
    product quote. And if it is, in some instances, possible, the time it
    takes to do so is ridiculous. 
    
    For an MCS Sales Rep  (or even, a Sales Exec like you, Mark :-) to
    haveto do this doesn't make much sense to me either. There should be
    (and ARE) bigger fish to fry out there in the PC Utility, and other
    large/lucrative opptys. The fact that the MCS rep CAN do it isn't the
    point...the point is that this task, which should be trivial, is not.
    
    Sure hope the powers that be realize we've got a problem, and it's NOT
    ok.
    
    My .02
    
    SteveS

    Re: .25: I believe that Digital would have come up with the same
    information as the nice TI lady, under the same circumstances. The
    problem starts when you sell via channels and you do not know who
    ended up with it (till he calls). Or: You take stuff on contract that
    you did not produce (and of which you had no control over the warrenty
    arrangements). Or you need to use systems that were designed for
    a different delivery situation as what you need, to deal with todays
    business.
    
    These are difficult problems that MCS is trying to solve, on a
    world-wide basis. BTW: At a high level, there seem to be 2 possbilities:
    You define a fake product that is the difference between the service
    level of the warretny part of that product, and the the service level
    of the the service you are selling: Now you can quote a service price
    that avoids double payment.
    
    Or you determine a value of the warrenty and subtract it from the
    service price you are quoting.
    
    In either case it is lots of work, you solved some problems, and you
    created a few new ones. 
    
    If you have some ideas on elements that can contribute to the
    solution, please post them. Saying that it ought to be easy and
    everyone (with the exception of the Digital folks in charge) can
    do it, does not help.  And there are people working this.
    
    Al
     

    I can assure you that if a customer calls 1-800-354-9000 and gives
    the CRR the serial number of a printer, 99 % of the time the CRR 
    will have no idea whether it is on  warranty or not.
    
    It happens every day.

>    I can assure you that if a customer calls 1-800-354-9000 and gives
>    the CRR the serial number of a printer, 99 % of the time the CRR 
>    will have no idea whether it is on  warranty or not.
    
    I didn't think they even TRIED to figure it out. Nearly every warranty
    call that I get for Digital stuff comes in as a "per call". (Ie, Charge
    the customer time and materials for this call at exorbitant rates).
    It's rather embarassing to quote a customer an estimated repair cost
    over the phone then have them say "But I just bought it a week ago!"
    I now ask "how old is this system" as part of my phone pre-screening.
    
    Don't even get me started on the folks that send out 40-80 page memos
    concerning national accounts (or Complex Business Models as we now call
    them) that have perhaps ONE page that truly pertains to what FE's
    really need to know. (IE, what's covered, how much do we charge and who
    do we bill!) Way too much time is wasted trying to track down this
    info.
    
    Harry, truly on the front lines...
    

    re: .31
    
    Harry ... my point exactly. The information should be available to the
    CRR automatically as the serial number/model number info is entered
    as the call is logged.
    
    BTW: We (DEC) now have people in each district who are to act as
    resources to you regarding complex business models. They are called
    Distributed Account Focals (DAF). I am the one for the Atlantic
    Central Coast district (after being an engineer for 16 years). If
    you want a list of DAFs for all the districts let me know. Their
    whole purpose in life is to make that type of business work ... it's
    the future for MCS, like it or not. Use your DAF as a resourse of
    first resort (along with TIMA). There's no need to feel like the
    Lone Ranger anymore. 
    
    Theo

    What do you think we are...a computer company?
    r
    

    Every day several hundred customers call 800-354-9000 and ask questions
    about their printers.  The mechanism does not exist that enables
    anybody to accurately determine whether the machine is on warranty,
    contract, per-call or is even a DEC product.  Further, the customer may
    be directed to a person who will try to help the user.  My favorite
    example of this is one of my own customer calls.  
    
    A man called with an LA95 into which HE had installed the color kit.  I
    was certain that it was new, theorized that it was bought from a retail
    store shelf.  I supposed that the warranty registration card was not
    sent in yet.  The doggone thing didn't print color.  I searched the
    building for the manual, found it, brought it back to my desk and
    thumbed through it with the guy holding, found the color
    troubleshooting section, went though the dozens steps (I've never seen
    nor touched an LA95)  in the setup, test and installation verification
    procedure.  The thing seemed to be O.K..  I asked him what he was
    trying to print.  He said it was a Word document.  I asked him what
    color it was.  He said it was black and white.  I told him to make some
    of it a color.  He asked me how.  I, at that time, a year ago, had never 
    seen Microsoft Word and didn't have a machine or manuals to refer to so
    I suggested he explore the menus.  He managed to highlight some text
    and make it red.  When he printed it it was red.
    
    Now, you are thinking, "This guy at the CSC is a real Bozo," and
    perhaps that is true.  But let me say that there is a building full of
    experienced people out here who are assaulted constantly with this kind
    of problem every day.  Thousands of calls every day just like this. 
    Believe it or not, my example problem, the LA95, expended 3 hours. 
    Customers are not experienced Field technicians and they take a long
    time to do what we ask them to do.  I didn't mention that this was not
    the first time this guy had called for the same problem.  I took the
    time, solved his problem, made him a happy customer and wiped out any
    profit from that machine and several hundred of its brothers.
    
    Every day there are several hundred people at the CSC who are
    performing the same kind of services for similar kinds of 'failures',
    producing happy, satisfied customers (sometimes), day and night.  As
    nearly as I can tell, there is no reasonable way to stop doing this. It
    is a whole lot cheaper to do it this way than to send MCS out on-site
    but it is still not cheap and easy.  
    
    But it isn't an easy business.  A friend of mine bought a PC from DELL
    and it came with a Colorado Tape backup.  He couldn't get the tape
    backup system to work correctly so he called DELL but couldn't get
    through to them.  I suggested that, since the tape backup was the
    problem, he might call Colorado Mag. (or whoever they are).  He did and
    they got him straightened out.  1 call.  1 product.  15 minutes.  Happy
    customer.
    
    I sold one of my old PCs to a friend.  Just this morning he came to me
    and asked me to look at his printer.  I asked him what it was doing. 
    He said it was printing light.  I told him to buy a new ink cartridge
    and see if makes it better.  Would you send MCS on-site for that?  Make
    a long distance call?  
    
    What used to work in VAXland doesn't cut it in this market.  Multiply
    any problem - a documentation problem, a bad transistor, a defective
    device driver - by several million and you can spend ALL of your profit
    fixing it.  If that is compounded by even 10 minutes searching to see
    if the device, system, software is on contract/warranty you will lose
    your shirt.  If you have to send a person on-site, with an average 2
    hour transportation nationwide you'd better make sure you don't do that
    any more than necessary.

    WRT: Printers, and warranty cards.  Digital printers no longer come
    with warranty cards.  We have been told to tell our customers that
    proof-of-purchase is all that is necessary to get warranty service.
    
    					andrew

    
    
     WE ARE CONFUSING OUR CUSTOMERS WITH THE DIFFERENT WARRANTIES ON
    DIFFERENT PRODUCTS. WE ALL SHOULD BE CONSSISITENT IN OUR MESSAGE.
    
    
    

    >BTW: We (DEC) now have people in each district who are to act as
    >resources to you regarding complex business models. They are called
    >Distributed Account Focals (DAF). I am the one for the Atlantic
    
    Hmmm, here in the South Central District I've never heard of a
    Distributed Account Focal. If we have one, it's a well guarded secret!
    :-(
    
    Harry
    

    This lack of warranty information is old news... when I was a product
    support engineer for SCA.... nay, when I was an FE for the South Texas
    district, many years ago, the same problem existed then.  
    
    This company does nothing but point fingers... and blame somebody
    else... and say "it's not my job"... and the front line (yes, all the
    Harry Hardmans of the world...) have to confront each and every
    customer and say "duh, I dunno if it's warranty or not!"
    
    Will we never learn?
    
    tony
    (Hi, Harry... nice to see you in here!)
    

    Surely, .32, you're pulling our common leg? Anyone who can come up
    with a title like that probably needs to get their bifocals replaced...

Yup and just think what they will be called when they are organised into Teams!!!


D.A.F Teams :-)

    re: .37
    
    The Distributed Account Focal for South Central is Sandy Riska @DLO
    and the DTN is 486 6082.

    RE: .39
    
    If you understood the business you would find that it's an
    appropriate title which aptly describes the responsibilities
    of the position.
    
    Distributed Accounts are something in MCS that certainly require
    some focus!
    
    [Rathole alert!]
    
    FWIW: What, you may ask, is a Distributed Account? Here is an
    illustration: A large insurance company in Chicago has offices
    spread over the entire USA. They want their desktop equipment, such
    as Servers, PCs, Laser printers, Laptops, etc, serviced by one
    company with one service contract. In addition, they want special
    procedures adhered to such as using their Help Desk for software
    issues. Digital bids on this business and wins the contract. We
    call it a Distributed Account because the equipment is distributed
    accross the country. Chicago is the "Host Office". This is difficult
    business .... hence the frustration you found in the notes in this
    string from field service (MCS) engineers. We have been tasked
    with making this business work. It will require us to focus our efforts
    on this business to be effective. Hmmmm ... wonder what they should
    call us?

    ... still smells the same!
    
    Sorry ... that names taken. The DAM is for accounts hosted within
    a district. The DAF is for accounts hosted outside a district. Each
    district has but one DAF. However, the number of DAMs is determined
    by the number of accounts that district hosts.
    
    

    
    	I'm sorry, but after reading this entire string I definitely feel
    several types of people should be asked to take drug tests. This is
    ridiculous.
    
    	Warranties have value, first and foremost. 
    
    	People are expensive; sending people anywhere to do anything that
    doesn't ADD $$ is very, very expensive.
    
    	Computers were invented to "manipulate" numbers.
    
    	Serial numbers are put on physcial items so they can be located.
    
    	Maybe IM&T can build a real serial number locating system using
    computers.
    
    
    	In less than 10 years.
    
    	Nah, never happen. Too easy a solution. And then we wouldn't need
    DAFs, and MCS reps, and their management and staff, and, well, that
    simply will NOT do. So, now you know. If it can be manipulated by
    people, instead of computers, that is the Digital Way.
    
    	We just love to do it all the hardest way possible. That way
    everyone WORKS real hard. Smart, sports fans, is NOT a focus; sweat
    is...
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

     .... and here I thought we were a group of concerned employees
    engaging in a spirited, lively discussion (and perhaps even
    exchanging some useful information in the process). Now I find out
    we must just be a bunch of druggies! What a bummer. 

    Have no fear of drug tests, especially if Digital is involved. It would
    require tracking of a sample through manufacture, on to test and then
    presentation of results. If it is not possible to match a serial number
    on a refrigerator size box through this process.......Would this
    involve MCS?

    This is the current Canadian Warranty Document
    
    Thanks to Marshall Cram , MCS OPERATIONS REGIONAL SUPPORT
    
    Warning: long document ahead:

                     CANADIAN GENERAL WARRANTY INFORMATION

We have tailored the warranties of our products to meet industry standards.  
Each product is sold with a specified warranty response time, hours of coverage, 
duration, and a specified manner by which the warranty service will be provided.  
For each product category these attributes are identified in the Canadian 
Warranty Table.  
 
Standard warranty attributes such as response time, warranty duration and method 
of service delivery can be enhanced through the purchase of the appropriate 
warranty uplifts.

Service Offerings

BASIC	Basic Service provides on-site hardware service, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., 
Monday through Friday, except locally observed Digital holidays and priority 
response time.  Hardware maintenance will be performed during the standard hours 
of coverage.  Digital will automatically activate an accelerated back-up plan to 
involve the necessary technical resources should some extraordinary problem 
cause repairs to exceed pre-determined time limits.  

DECservice	DECservice provides on-site hardware service, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., 
Monday through Friday, except locally observed Digital holidays. The call window 
can be extended in four (4) hour increments up to 24 hours a day, 7 days a week 
including holidays.  Committed Response Time.  Hardware maintenance will be 
performed continuously until the problem is resolved.   Digital will 
automatically activate an accelerated back-up plan to involve the necessary 
technical resources should some extraordinary problem cause repairs to exceed 
pre-determined time limits.

		Road distance from Designated
		Digital Service Office		Response Time

		  0 - 160 km			 4 hrs
		161 - 320 km			 8 hrs
		321+ km				16 hrs				

Travel Charges  For equipment located located beyond 320 kilometres of a Digital 
		Service Office (80 kilometres for P.C.'s) travel charges will be
		applicable.  If commercial transportation is required, the 
		Purchaser shall bear the cost of expenses incurred by Digital's
		service representative in traveling to the Purchaser's site.
		Digital will use the most economical mode of transportation
		which permits Digital to meet its response time commitments. 
		Contact your nearest MCS office for travel charge determination.

(c) Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd., 1995.  Printed in Canada.  The Digital 
    logo and all other Digital trademarks are the property of Digital Equipment 
    Corporation.  All other trademarks are recognized as being the property of
    their respective owners.


Return-to-Digital warranty provides repair or replacement of the field 
replaceable unit (FRU) through the Digital Customer Returns Center (CRC) or a 
Digital SERVICentre.  Systems or other non-FRU devices presented for repair will 
be subject to diagnosis and disassembly charges.  The customer is responsible 
for payment of freight and packaging for the return to Digital.  Digital will 
pay freight and packaging costs associated with the return of the replacement 
product to the customer.  FRU's must be received at the Specified Digital 
address within ten (10) days of shipment of the replacement FRU, or the customer
will be billed for the replacement part at full Country List Price (CLP). 

SPD Digital Software products are warranted to conform to the applicable
Software Product Description (SPD).  This means that Digital will remedy any 
nonconformance when it is reported to Digital by the customer during the 
warranty period.  Digital will provide a service location which will accept
reporting (in a format prescribed by Digital) of a non-conformance problem
caused when using the licensed software under conditions as defined in the SPD.
Digital will remedy a non-conformance problem in the current unaltered release
of the licensed software by issuing correction information, such as correction
documentation, corrected code or notice of availability of corrected code, or
a restriction of a bypass.  The customer will be responsible for the preparation
and submission of the problem report to the service location. 

Telephone Advisory Support will include software usage advice on proper software
execution and information on the interpretation of software product techincal
documentation.   The specific deliverables can be categorized as follows:
    Software Usage Assistance:
	 -Information of software product features and functionality
	 -Help with interpreting system error messages
	 -Assistance in storing, retrieving and managing files
	 -Information on creating and editing text and data files
    Installation Assistance:
	 -Advisory support on the proper installation and updates of customer 
	  installable software.  The support is limited to getting the customer 
	  started and answering specific questions encountered during the 
	  installation process.
    Problem Notification:
	 -Digital will notify the appropriate software organization/vendor of 
	  any unpublished software usage problems.  Digital will not necessarily 
	  provide the customer with the response from the software 
	  organization/vendor.
    Problem Isolation:
	 -Digital will determine whether a software usage problem is the result 
	  of a hardware failure or software problem. 
Telephone advisory support specifically excludes Network Operating Systems, 
Right-To-New-Version for operating systems and layered products, and on-site
support. 
	  
For additional information regarding warranty attributes, refer to the Digital 
Service Descriptions. These Service Descriptions are available from your Sales 
Representative.


                            Warranty Outside Canada

Digital will honour the warranty where Digital maintains a direct service 
presence, without regard to the country of origin.  Countries where Digital 
currently maintains a direct service presence are listed below.  This listing is 
subject to change without prior notice.

Americas
	      Brazil		  Canada	      Mexico		       
	      Puerto Rico	  U.S.A.	      Venezuela

Asia Pacific

	      Australia		  Fiji		      Hong Kong
	      Japan		  Malaysia	      New Zealand
	      Phillippines	  Singapore	      South Korea
	      Taiwan		  Thailand

Europe/Mid East/Africa

	      Algeria		  Austria	      Belgium
	      Cote D'Ivoire	  Cyprus	      Czech Republic
	      Denmark		  Estonia	      Finland
	      France		  Germany	      Greece
	      Hungary		  Ireland	      Israel
	      Italy		  Morocco	      Luxembourg
	      Netherlands	  Norway	      Poland
	      Portugal		  Romania	      Russia
	      Slovak Rep	  Spain		      Sweden
	      Switzerland	  Turkey	      Ukraine
	      United Kingdom	  

Enhanced warranty services may be purchased through the country of origin and 
these services will be honoured in the servicing country.  It is the 
responsibility of the purchaser to register enhanced warranty services directly 
in the country providing service.  Proof of purchase may be required.


				CANADIAN WARRANTY TABLE 
________________________________________________________________________________
                     		AlphaStation and AlphaServer Warranty
				   
Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

AlphaServer 8200 and 8400	-Customer installation or separate purchase of
  DA-281**   DA-291**		 Digital installation
  DY-281**   DY-291**		-One (1) year hardware DECservice, 8 a.m. to 5
				 p.m., Monday through Friday except locally 
                                 observed Digital holidays
				-Four (4) hour on-site response if within 160 KM 
                                 of a Digital Service office
				-Ninety (90) days telephone advisory support and 
                                 one (1) year conformance to SPD on Digital 
				 UNIX (OSF/1), OpenVMS and NAS 200 purchased 
                                 with hardware

AlphaServer 1000, 2000 and 2100 -Customer installation or separate purchase of
  PB70A  D*-241D*		 Digital installation
  PB70B  D*-251L*		-Three (3) years hardware Basic Service, 8 a.m. 
  PB70C  D*-251P* 		 to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, except locally
  PB7MA  D*-251W*		 observed Digital holidays; next business day
  PB7RB  D*-252L*		 response if 160 KM of a Digital Service office;
  PB7RC  D*-252P*		-Ninety (90) days telephone advisory support
         D*-252W*		 on Microsoft Windows NT, Digital UNIX (OSF/1),
         D*-261C*		 NAS 200 or OpenVMS purchased with hardware;
         DH-262C*		 Advanced Electronic Support included (where 
                                 applicable)

Internet AlphaServer 1000	-Same warranty as AlphaServer 1000 above except
  DJ-SSNA1-AA			 Software Warranty is Ninety (90) days telephone
				 advisory support on Digital UNIX (OSF/1), 
				 Electronic Locker Admin, MAILworks Server
				 and Netsite Communications purchased with the
				 system.
				-Monitor is VT510 which has a three (3) year 
                                 warranty consistent with the system.


AlphaStation 200 and 400	-Customer installation or separate purchase of
  PB40H     PB50C		 Digital installation
  PB41A     PB50H		-One (1) year hardware Basic Service, 8 a.m. to
  PB41N     PB51N		 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, except locally
  PB420     PB51A		 observed Digital holidays; next business day
  PB421     PB520		 response if within 160 KM of a Digital office;
  PB422     PB521		-Years two (2) and three (3) Return-To-Digital
  PB40H     PB522		 support for hardware;
  PB42A     PB510/511/512	-Ninety (90) days telephone advisory support
  PB42N    			 on Microsoft Windows NT, Digital UNIX (OSF/1),
  PB430				 NAS 150, Multimedia (MMS), Open 3D or OpenVMS 
  PB431				 purchased with hardware
  PB432
  PB410/411/412
  
Internet AlphaServer 200 & 400  -Same warranty as AlphaStation 200/400 except
  DJ-SSNA2-AA			 Ninety  (90) days telephone advisory support
  DJ-SSNA3-AA			 and one (1) conformance to SPD on Digital UNIX 
                                 (OSF/1) and Electronic Locker Admin. purchased 
                                 with the system.
				-Monitor is VT510 which has a three (3) year 
                                 warranty consistent with the system.	

NOTE:  -Monitor not included in second and third years of warranty (except
        Internet AlphaServers).
       -Separate purchase of Right-to-use new version software for operating 
        systems and Layered Products is required.  It is not included in the
        Warranty.
       -Telephone Advisory Support does not include support for network 
        operating systems.
       -These warranties are effective as of the date of First Product Ship 
        except for the AlphaServer 2100
       -AlphaServer 2100 products purchased prior to November 3, 1994 are 
        governed by their original warranty.

________________________________________________________________________________
				Mid Range Systems

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

DEC 4000 AXP			-Initial installation of hardware
  D*-471**-**			-One (1) year hardware DECservice, 8 a.m. to
DEC 7000 AXP			 5 p.m., Monday through Friday except locally
     7KAM*-**			 observed Digital holidays
  2T-7KAM*-**			-Four (4) hour on-site response if within 160 KM
				 of a Digital Service office
				-When a Digital supported operating system is
				 included in part number, the one (1) year 
                                 warranty includes:
				-Telephone assistance for operating system
				-Initial installation of operating system
				-Telephone assistance for Digital layered
				 products running on systems receiving telephone
				 assistance from Digital for the operating
				 system
				-Onsite support for critical software outages
 				 which cannot be fixed remotely
				-Advanced Electronic Support (where applicable)
				-Right-to-use new versions of kernel software

________________________________________________________________________________
				Desktop Products

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

DEC 2000 AXP Model 300		-Customer installation or separate purchase of
  PB221, PB222, PB223, PB224	 Digital installation necessary
  PB22B, PB22C			-One (1) year hardware Basic service, 8 a.m. to
DEC 3000 AXP Family  		 5 p.m., Monday through Friday except locally
  PE320, PE321, PE32B		 observed Digital holidays, next business day 
  PE420, PE421, PE440, PE441	 response if within 160 KM of a Digital Service
  PE540, PE541 			 office.	
DECstation 5000 Family 		-When a Digital supported Operating System is
  PM339, PM390			 included in part number, the one (1) year 
DECsystem 5000 Servers		 Warranty includes:
  PM399 			-Telephone assistance for operating system
				-Telephone assistance for Digital layered
                                 products running on systems receiving telephone
                                 assistance from Digital for the operating 
                                 system
				-Onsite support for critical software outages 
                                 which cannot be fixed remotely
				-Advanced Electronic Support (where applicable)
				-Right-to-use new versions of kernel software



_______________________________________________________________________________
                          	New VAX Warranty

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

VAXstation 4000 Family 		-Customer installation or separate purchase of 
  PV31U, PV61A, PV71A            Digital installation
  				-One (1) year hardware Basic Service, 8 a.m. to
  				 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, except locally
  				 observed Digital holidays; next business day
  				 response if within 160 KM of Digital service 
				 office
  				-Years two (2) and three (3) Return-To-Digital
  				 support for hardware;
  				-Ninety (90) days telephone advisory support and 
                                 one (1) year Conformance to SPD on OpenVMS, 
				 DECwindows Motif, DECnet OSI and NAS 200 
                                 purchased with hardware.

MicroVAX 3100 Systems & Servers -Customer installation or separate purchase of
  DV-31***-**   		 Digital installation
VAX 4000 Systems and Servers  	-Three (3) years hardware Basic Service, 8 a.m.
  DV-41V**-**			 to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, except locally
  DV-415**-**  			 observed Digital holidays; next business day
  DV-45A**-**			 response if within 160 KM of a Digital office;
  DV-45R**-**			-Ninety (90) days telephone advisory support and
  DV-47A**-**			 one (1) year Conformance to SPD on OpenVMS, 
  DV-47R**-**			 DECwindows Motif, DECnet OSI and NAS 200 
                                 purchased with hardware

VAX 7000 Servers		-Customer installation or separate purchase of
  7JAM*-**			 Digital installation
				-One (1) year hardware DECservice, 8 a.m. to 5 
                                 p.m., Monday through Friday except locally
				 observed Digital holidays
				-Four (4) hour on-site response if within 160 KM
				 of Digital Service office
  				-Ninety (90) days telephone advisory support and 
                                 one year Conformance to SPD on OpenVMS, 
				 DECwindows Motif, DECnet OSI and NAS 200 
                                 purchased with hardware

NOTE:  -Monitor not included in second and third years of warranty
       -Separate purchase of Right-to-use new versions of software for 
        operating systems and layered products is required as it is not 
        included in the warranty
       -VAX Warranty Change is effective April 3 1995
       -VAXstation 4000, MicroVAX 3100, VAX 4000 and VAX 7000 products purchased
        prior to April 3, 1995 are governed by their original warranty.
      

________________________________________________________________________________
     				PDP and rtVAX Systems

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

PDP-11/53/73/83/84		-Initial installation of hardware
PDP-11 CPU BOARDS		-One (1) year hardware DECservice, 8 a.m. to 5
rtVAX				 p.m., Monday through Friday except locally 
                                 observed Digital holidays
				-Four (4) hour on-site response if within 160 KM 
                                 of Digital Service office

NOTE: Warranty for PDP11 software is ninety (90) day conformance to SPD.
_______________________________________________________________________________
				Upgrade Support Warranty

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

Incabinet upgrades for High	-Initial installation of hardware
VAX and Mid-systems.  		-One (1) year hardware DECservice, 8 a.m. to 
IPX23, IPX16, IPX31		 5 p.m., Monday through Friday except locally
				 observed Digital holidays
				-4 hour response if within 160 KM of a Digital 	 
                                 Service office.
				
NOTE:  On-site Warranty is applicable only if system in which the upgrade is 
       installed is under Digital warranty or Digital service contract.  
       Otherwise warranty is Return-to-Digital.


________________________________________________________________________________
                                Network Product Warranty

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

All Networks products 		-Customer installation or separate purchase
(excluding EtherWORKS cards	 of Digital installation
 and selected FDDI Adapter	-One (1) year Return-to-Digital for hardware
 Cards (NIC Cards))		 product repair or replacement of field
				 replaceable unit (FRU) 
				-One (1) year Telephone assistance for use and
				 setup, general questions, and functionality.
				 This excludes any software application support.

				
EtherWORKS cards:		-Customer installation or separate purchase
   DE203,DE204,DE205		 of Digital installation
   DE210, DE212			-Three (3) year Return-to-Digital for hardware
   DE422,DE425,DE434,DE435	 product repair or replacement of field
FDDI Adapters:			 replaceable unit (FRU)
   DEFPA-AA/DA-UA		-Upgradeable to a lifetime warranty through
   DEFEA-AA/DA/UA 		 registration card enclosed with unit as long
				 as it is still used in the system to which it
				 was originally registered

NOTE:  -Network software warranty is one (1) year conformance to SPD
       -Network Product warranties are effective in Canada as of 1 April 1995



________________________________________________________________________________
       				Digital PC Warranty

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

Desktop/Deskside PC's		-One (1) year Basic Service, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Including DECpc			 Monday through Friday, except locally observed
          DECpc AXP 150		 Digital holidays, next business day response
          Venturis		 if within 80 KM of a Digital Service Office
          Celebris		-Years two (2) and three (3) Return-To-Digital
          Celebris XL		 support for hardware;
          Prioris MTE		-One (1) year telephone advisory support on 
                                 operating system (DOS, Windows NT, OS/2),
				 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday through Friday
				-First Ninety (90) days telephone advisory 	
				 support for all applications purchased with 
				 a Digital PC, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through 
                                 Friday.

HiNote, HiNote Ultra Notebooks	-Three (3) years Return-to-Digital support for 
                                 hardware.
				-First year receives free Passport Service with 
                                 return of warranty registration card
				-One (1) year telephone advisory support on
				 operating system (DOS, Windows NT, OS/2),
				 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday through Friday
				-First ninety (90) days telephone advisory 
				 support for all applications purchased with 
				 the Digital Portable PC, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m       
                                 Monday through Friday.
				
Prioris XL Server		-Three (3) years Basic service, 8 a.m. to 
Prioris HX Server		 5 p.m., Monday through Friday, next business 
                                 day response if within 80 KM of a Digital 
				 Service office.

NOTE:  -Monitor not included in second and third years of warranty for all 
        Digital PCs.  Warranty for monitor, mouse, keyboard, microphone and 
        speakers may be advance exchange mail-in process or courier.
       -Telephone Advisory Support does not include support for network
        operating systems.
       -On-site service is limited to sites within 80 km of a Digital Service 
        location. Sites beyond 80 km are subject to travel charges and longer 
        response time.  Contact the local service delivery office for additional 
        information.

________________________________________________________________________________
                   		Components and Peripherals Warranty
				 
Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

 Video Products
 Text Terminals			-Three (3) years Return-To-Digital
    VT340+,420,510,520,525
    VG510,520,525

 X Window Terminals		-One (1) year Basic service, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.,
    VX225,VX227,VX259 		 Monday through Friday, next business day 
    VXT2000/VXT2000+		 response if within 160 KM of a Digital Service
				 Office; 
				-One (1) year telephone advisory support and 
				 Right-to-use new versions of X Window Terminal 
				 Operating Systems.

 Multia (See note below)	-One (1) year Basic Service, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.
    VX40A,VX40B,VX40M		 Monday through Friday, except locally observed
    VX41A,VX41B			 Digital holidays; next business day response
    VX42A,VX47A,VX47B		 if within 160 KM of a Digital Service office;
    				-Years two (2) and three (3) Return-To-Digital 	 
                                 support for hardware.
				-Ninety (90) days telephone advisory support and 
                                 one (1) year conformance to SPD on Multia 
                                 Software
Hardcopy Products

 Dot Matrix  			-One (1) year Return-to-Digital Support for 
    LA70, LA75S, LA310		 hardware, full option return, two (2) business
    LA424, LA600		 day response.
 DEClasers   
    LN07, LN09S, LN11, LN14
 Thermal LF02
 Scanners 
    MD30C,MD410,MD400
 Dot Matrix 			-Two (2) years Return-To-Digital support for
    LA65, LA95, LA195 		 hardware, full option return, two (2) business
    LJ120,LJ120,LJ500,LJ520,	 day response.
 Inkjet Printers   		
    LJ100, LJ110, LJ120
    LJ500, LJ520, LJ18P
 Line Printers 			-One (1) year Return-To-Digital support for 
    LG04, LG06, LG12 		 hardware, FRU Return Only, two (2) business day
 PrintServers 			 response.
    LPS17, LPS32		 

NOTE:  -PrintServer software warranty is one year (1) conformance to SPD
       -For the Multia the monitor is not included in years two (2) and three(3)
       -Components and Peripherals warranty was effective August 15 1994

________________________________________________________________________________
       				Spares Warranty	 

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

Spares				Ninety (90) day, Return-to-Digital

________________________________________________________________________________
				Refurbished Equipment Warranty (B1-)

Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

Refurbished Trade-In Equipment	-Customer installation or separate purchase
				 of Digital installation
				-One (1) year hardware Basic Service, 8 a.m.
				 to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday, except locally
				 observed Digital holidays; next business day
				 response if within 160 KM of a Digital Service
				 office.
                                -Software warranty on Digital software purchased
                                 the system is one (1) year conformance to SPD.
________________________________________________________________________________
               			Storage Option Support Warranty 
				   
Product Category		Standard Warranty Support

Storage Products		-First year, on-site hardware service, 8 a.m. to
				 5 p.m., Monday through Friday; next business 
                                 day response if within 160 KM of a Digital
				 Service office.
				-Additional year(s) for year two (2) throughout 
                                 the end of the specified warranty period for 
                                 the individual product or component of 
                                 Return-to-Digital for selected storage 
                                 products. The Return-to-Digital warranty 
                                 provides repair or replacement of the field 
                                 replaceable unit (FRU) through the   Digital 
                                 Customer Returns Center (CRC) or a Digital 
                                 SERVICEenter.
  
         Refer to Storage Option Support Chart for further detail

  NOTE: -Certain storage products (selected disk controllers: HSCXX, HSD30,             
         HSJ22, HSJ30, HSJ40, HSJ42, HZ10, etc.), include integrated hardware 
         and software support during first year.
        -StorageWorks warranty was effective December 6, 1993



________________________________________________________________________________
				        Storage Option Support Warranty

Product Category 	Duration 	Products
				
Winchester Disks	5 Yrs		RZxx-VA, RZxxL-VA, SWSDx, SWXDx

Controllers, adapters	3 Yrs		HSJxx, KZESA, DWZZA
					HSZ10, HSD05, SWXAs, SWSAx
					HSD30,HSJ30,HSJ40,HSJ42,HSJ22,HSZ40*

Packaging		3 Yrs		SW8xx, SW5xx, BA353, BA350
					BA650, BA655, BA35X-VA

Solid state disks	3 Yrs		EZ5xR-VA, SWSE5-Rx

AC/DC power supplies	3 yrs		BA35x (except BA35X-HC)
					SW8XP, SW5XP

CD-ROM, floppy drives	3 yrs		RRD4x-VU/VB, RX2x-VA, SWXOR

DLT Tapes/Loaders	2 yrs		TZ8x-VA, TZ8x7-xx, SWXTL

Other Tapes		1 yr		TLZxx-VA, TZKxx-VA, TKZxx-VA
					SWXTx

Battery backup power	1 yr		BA35X-HC
  supplies


SDI/DSSI Family:

WinchesterDisks, SABB's	1 Yr		SAxx, RAxx, SFxx, RFxx, RF7x-RA

Controllers, adapters	1 Yr		HSCxx, HSC9X-SX, HSC5X-DA, HSC9X-FA,
					HSC6X-BA, HSC9X-BA, KDM70, KFMSA,
					KDB50, KDA50, KFQSA

Packaging		1 Yr		SA9xx, SA3xx, SF4xx, SF2xx, SF3x0,
					R215F, RF7xB-KA, RF7xR

Solid state disks	1 Yr		ESE50, EF5x

Power Supplies		1 Yr		HSC5X-EA

DLT Tapes/Loaders	1 Yr		TF8x, TA8x7, TF8x7, SF10x,
					SA10x, SF2x0/3x0/400

Other Tapes/Loaders	1 Yr		TA9x

________________________________________________________________________________
  					Storage Option Support Warranty                     
  
Product Category 	Duration 	Products

Other Products:

High capacity SCSI 	5 Yrs		RZ25, RZ25L, RZ26, RZ26L, RZ26B
  disks					RZ28, RZ73, RZ74

Other SCSI disks	3 Yrs		RZ23L, RZ24L

Legacy disks		1 Yr		RZ55, RZ56, RZ57, RZ58

Controllers, adapters	1 Yr		KZMSA, KZQSA, KZBSA, TQK50/70, 
  					RQZX1, TUK50

Packaging		1 Yr		R23RZ, SZxx

Solid State disks	3 Yrs		EZ5xR

CD-ROM			3 Yrs		RRD4x

Floppy disk drives	3 Yrs		RX26, RX23

SCSI DLT Loaders	2 Yrs		TZ8x
  
SCSI DLT Loaders	2 Yrs		TZ8x7, SZ100, SZ106

Other Tapes		1 Yr		TZK10, TZ30, TTZ30, TLZ0x, TKZ0x
  					TK50, TK70, TF70, TSB07

Tape Loaders		1 Yr		TLZ6L, TKZ60, TKB60, TU81

Optical drives		1 Yr		RV20, RWZ01, RWZ21

Optical jukeboxes	1 Yr		RW100, RW5xx, SWXOW

* HSD30, HSJ30, HSJ40, HSJ42, HSJ22, HSZ40 includes one (1) year telephone 
  advisory support and Right-To-New-Version software support.  One (1) year 
  Firmware Updates subscription is available through completion and return of 
  warranty registration card. This warranty effective on orders placed after 
  Dec. 6, 1993. 		


________________________________________________________________________________
                           Selling Uplifted Warranty

Standard Rules for upgrading warranty are:


- Return-to-Digital upgrade to Basic	
	.6 x Basic Monthly Charge (BMC) x months

- Return-to-Digital upgrade to DECservice (DSMC)
	.79 x BMC x months     or   .66 x DSMC x months

- Upgrade from Basic to DECservice
	DSMC - BMC x months

- 90 Day Software Telephone Advisory Support to 1 year Software Support (SSS)
	(SNS x 3) + (SSS x 9)

- Digital Intel PC's upgrade to Basic 3 years (FM-PCXHW-36)	
	$200 Fixed Price*

- Digital Intel PC's upgrade to DECservice 3 years (FM-PCXDS-36)
	$500 Fixed Price*

* This fixed price does not apply to XL servers, Prioris XL or HX, or Alpha AXP 
  150 PC's.  It INCLUDES monitors up to and including 15" in the 3 year service 
  upgrade.

- Upgrade to Extended Hours of Coverage

    PART NUMBERS     DAYS           COVERAGE     % UPLIFT
    
    FM-EXMF5-12     MON-FRI (5D)    12 HOURS        4
    FM-EXMF5-16     MON-FRI (5D)    16 HOURS        8
    FM-EXMF5-24     MON-FRI (5D)    24 HOURS       16
    
    FM-EXMS6-08     MON-SAT (6D)    09 HOURS        8
    FM-EXMS6-12     MON-SAT (6D)    12 HOURS       14
    FM-EXMS6-16     MON-SAT (6D)    16 HOURS       20 
    FM-EXMS6-24     MON-SAT (6D)    24 HOURS       30
    
    FM-EXMS7-08     MON-SUN (7D)    09 HOURS       16
    FM-EXMS7-12     MON-SUN (7D)    12 HOURS       24
    FM-EXMS7-16     MON-SUN (7D)    16 HOURS       32
    FM-EXMS7-24     MON-SUN (7D)    24 HOURS       44

    RE .49
    
    My thanks for posting the Warranty Document. You have succeeded in
    providing the best possible proof of the original premise. As you read
    through this tome, the string title comes to mind - If you couldn't
    laught at this mess, you'd certainly have to cry. Unfortunately I have
    to try to present this stuff to the customer on a daily basis and they
    don't seem to have as good of a sense of humor; although, they must
    think we do, since "You're kidding me" is an oft heard reply.
    
    -OFWAMI-                           

re: .50

>    -OFWAMI-                           

Could some kind soul please translate this one for the acronym-impaired?

Thanks,
Hal

    the reaction of a customer is driven by the quality of the
    presentation

>    the reaction of a customer is driven by the quality of the
>    presentation
    
    ...not the product". 1
    
    1  Dogbert's Marketing Concepts, page 117

RE: .52

>    the reaction of a customer is driven by the quality of the presentation

I'm sorry, but as someone who presents Digital products, services and policies
to customers every single day, I can't help but respond to this.

I would agree that the quality of the presentation is important, and accounts
for approximately 50% of the customers reaction.  But the quality of the
material counts for the other half.

I have been told on multiple occassions that I am a good presenter, and the 
one phrase that keeps recurring in the evaluations of my presentations is 
"you obviously believe in what you are presenting".  One of the things that 
I learned when I moved from Engineering to the Field is that customers are 
quite perceptive.  If the presenter is honestly convinced that this product
or service or technology or whatever is truly the right answer for the
customer, the presentation changes from a sales pitch to a sharing of exciting
information which will help another person succeed at their goals.

But if the product or service or whatever is not the right answer to the
customer, a quality presentation will explain the product or service so well
that everyone will immediately see that it is not the right answer.  In
this case any enthusiasm that the presenter exhibits comes across as someone
who is out of touch with reality, and they will immediately be dismissed by
the audience as a fake.  (The other choice of course is to present the
material so badly that everyone is confused to the point that no one even
understands the material, and we have all seen that.  But we try to avoid
doing that).  

Without a product that we can believe in, it is impossible for me (and most
Sales Reps I know) to recommend solutions to our customers.  Of course we
can tailor a presentation to emphasize our strengths and minimize our
weaknesses: that is good selling.  But we have to have products with strengths
that we can believe in, otherwise we won't be successful.

-- Ken Moreau

    .54
    
    What's not to believe in?  Warranty is constructed to compete with like
    warranty.  No secrets there.  I do believe you are a good presenter.
    
    .55
    
    Your statement about Americans is interesting.  Tellingly sad, but
    interesting.                                                 

    >> Warranty is constructed to compete with like warranty.
    
    It seems to me that we've lost sight of something here. We've become so
    obsessed with our competetiveness in each market niche that we've
    forgotten why many customers come to us. They want the SIMPLICITY and
    CONVENIENCE of a single source. And they're willing to pay for it.
    
    Unfortunately, one of the things they classify under the simplicity and
    convenience rubric is uniform, co-terminous warranties and service
    agreements. I certainly did when I was a customer.
    
    No secrets there.
    
    \dave
    

>    less so in the US :-): "Well, after all  we've got a lot of Americans in 
>    the company so we're bound to end up with these kinds of statements 
>    now and again, you know Americans...".
    
    Please replace "Americans" with "Blacks" or "Women" and see *exactly*
    how long your note lasts.  I'm very surprised at you, Roelof...
    
    								Tex

    
>    Unfortunately, one of the things they classify under the simplicity and
>    convenience rubric is uniform, co-terminous warranties and service
>    agreements. I certainly did when I was a customer.
 
    I would too!  That is why you should engage your MCS partner.  Thy will
    be done!  (full circle eh??)
       
    No secrets there.
    
    
    

    RE: the last few.
    
    I think one has to be European to understand what Roelof means. It's
    not insulting; try not to be so sensitive.
    
    Laurie.

	I think that Laurie meant that Roeloef meant that the Americans
	meant that the thing was meant to work in Europe but that it wouldn't
	but that this wasn't meant as an insult to Americans.  Clear ...?

	If an American chooses to be insulted by this Roeloef, then its
	your problem, not his/hers and maybe that your eye-contact 
	presentation style doesn't travel well in Notes format.

/Chris.

    re:-1
    As decided in hundreds of cases it is not how the speaker intended it
    to sound it is decided on how the message was perceived and
    interpreted.
    
    I also believe .58 hit a good point
    

>>    less so in the US :-): "Well, after all  we've got a lot of Americans in 
>>    the company so we're bound to end up with these kinds of statements 
>>    now and again, you know Americans...".
>    
>    Please replace "Americans" with "Blacks" or "Women" and see *exactly*
>    how long your note lasts.  I'm very surprised at you, Roelof...
>    
>    								Tex
    
    In Holland we tend to eat very light (even frugal) lunches. Needless
    to say this is not the custom in France or Italy where lunches tend
    to be extravagant affairs (especially if you're a guest).
    
    Now whenever we have a session including lunch with South Europeans
    and bring in the somewhat drabby rolls their faces always fall. We
    Dutch also have a reputation for - to put it in a positive light - 
    ehh, frugality.
    
    Anyway whenever I see their expressions fall I generally say something
    like "Guys, you're in Holland, look on the bright side at least we're 
    not making you pay for your -and our- lunch". This always draws a laugh.
    
    Tex, to me it isn't fair to suggest I replace "Americans" with "Blacks" or
    "Women" just as it generally doesn't make sense to replace sentences 
    concerning "Blacks" or "Women" with references to "Russian" or "Chinese" 
    (or Dutch for that matter).
    
    Many Americans find Europeans more formal and less easygoing.
    Probably the reason is that Europeans _are_  more formal and
    less easygoing. Conversely many Europeans find that Americans 
    tend to hype more (bigger, better, best). This is the characteristic
    to which I was referring. If I had said "Men are generally
    more aggressive than women" (a fairly widely accepted statement
    with some basis in scientific fact) I don't think it would have
    been fair either to suggest I carry out the type of substitutions 
    indicated to expose "true meaning". 
    
    Be that as it may, Tex, if you (or anybody else) finds the 
    (reference in the) note offensive and would like me to remove the 
    note, put in a reply and I will be happy to do so: life is too short to 
    give unnecessary offense (or for that matter to be unnecessarily offended).
    
    re roelof
    

    Roelof, I know you and your noting style, and I think you know I enjoy
    both.  Your wit often livens a dead, dull, or dying string.
    
    On the other hand, I do find the passage in question offensive and
    don't wish to see it become another long Us -vs- Them string.  If you
    would revamp your note to exclude the reference, it'd be appreciated. 
    Although I sincerely believe you personally had no bad intentions here,
    many of us Americans have been somewhat sensitized to this issue by
    slamming from those who *do* have bad intent.
    
    Thanks.
    
    								Tex

>    Roelof, I know you and your noting style, and I think you know I enjoy
>    both.  Your wit often livens a dead, dull, or dying string.
 
    Flattery, Tex, flattery :-)

    I re-read the questionable note as I did not pick up on it the first
    time.  I saw no offense intended at all.  In fact, I thought it was a
    witty and good response.
    
    Larry
    

    I thought you were a Texan ;}

  Back to the warranty issue....we need a simple system, especially for 
multivendor service.  Maybe we could call Sears and find out what system 
they use.  I'll try to keep this example brief.  I bought a treadmill from
a local sporting goods store.  It was manufactured by Roadmaster so I thought
I had a quality machine.  A month later, the motor smoked.  After two weeks
of working with the store and the manufacturer, it became painfully obvious
that I had paid a lot of money for a really bad work of art (not a working 
treadmill) so I had the store pick it up and refund the cost.

I hadn't had great luck with Sears for a long time, but I'd heard they had 
improved so I gave them a shot.  Bought the machine; the computer popped up 
with the pricing information for the extended warranty up to the maximum 
allowed (3 years) and I bought that too.  Delivery and setup went without a
hitch and the machine lasted two months.  This one had a problem with the 
tension and the manual incline.  I called the 800 number, was given a repair 
date and time window.  They did have to reschedule, but they gave me plenty of 
notice.  The tech declared it unrepairable and told me to get the store to 
replace it.  I had another one a week later (would have been the next day but 
I had plans and couldn't stay home).

Sears now performs warranty service on just about anything from a wide variety
of manufacturers and they do it well.  NOW, could we do the same?  Maybe use
our computers to help us sell a no-brainer warranty?  It seems that we are 
still mired in systems and procedures that hinder instead of help.  We succeed
in spite of ourselves.  Everything from quotes to SBS should be replaced with 
easy to use and understand systems.  I can't believe people still claim a 
good presentation is all we need to overcome bad material (used to hear that
in Ed Services).  Bad material makes a bad impression; a good presentation
can help, but ulitmately the customer still has to deal with the bad material
at some point.  And don't forget about all that lost productivity trying to
make a skunk smell like a rose.  

Just my 4 cents.

				SQ

My understanding is that you have multiple pieces in an order all with 
different warranties because all are from different vendors - Kind of like 
the folowing

PC - base system has 2 year on-site warranty
disk - 1 year return to store
sound card - 3 year mail in
monitor - 6 month , send you a new one you return the old one

Now each of these have a seperate serial number and these aren't recorded 
on the BOM.  So how would you quote the entire mess to a 3 year on-site and 
keep track of the individual pieces WITHOUT opening the box??

Jilly  who_may_be_completely_out_in_left_field

    RE: .-68
    
    I won't continue the rathole on Sears warranty service but this past
    winter my mother had a problem with her furnace.  This was purchased
    about 5 years ago from Sears and installed by their contractors.
    
    It took *weeks* before we were able to speak to anyone who would even
    acknowledge that they could speak with any authority about a warranty
    issue.  In the end, it made me think twice about buying *anything* from
    Sears again.
    
    Having said that, I guess I can sympathize with the way some of our
    customers feel about buying anything from us again.  To put that in a
    more positive vein, this is a *ripe* area of opportunity for us to
    show customers and VAR's how the new Digital can improve on the old
    DEC.
    
    Larry
     

    RE -.1
    
    There's a point here, and Sears is a good example.  I *only* buy
    Craftsman tools from them, nothing else, solely due to their warranty
    policy.  It sucks.
    
    If our customers are experiencing anything even *close* to what I have
    in dealing with them, we're in deep doo-doo.

re .71
    
>    There's a point here, and Sears is a good example.  I *only* buy
>    Craftsman tools from them, nothing else, solely due to their warranty
>    policy.  It sucks.

I was so disgusted with Sears, I wouldn't even buy Craftsman tools from them
until my recent treadmill experiences.  (I won't go into the details, but it 
wasn't an isolated problem.)  I followed a recommendation by a friend to give 
them another try and I haven't been disappointed yet.  Sears seems to have 
changed, at least in San Jose.  I'll bet it takes them a long time to convince 
the rest of the country though.

>    If our customers are experiencing anything even *close* to what I have
>    in dealing with them, we're in deep doo-doo.

I'm fairly certain this is the case -- and how long will it take us to 
improve our reputation once it's 'fixed?"  (I didn't do any business with 
Sears for 20 years.)

			SQ

    Wait.  If you are now implying that our service sucks, you are wrong. 
    Compare it to anyone and we are very very good.  We've got the reach
    and the quality in people to do more jobs right then anyone else I can
    think of.  It is my experience that delivery people and managers in
    this company are some of the hardest and smartest workers here.
    
    If you need a 3 year bla bla bla warranty on your equipment, regardless
    of manufacture, we can do it and do it well.  ASK YOUR MCS REP for a
    quote.  ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE!  If you feel it is too much trouble
    for you to ask, or that Multivendor warranty solutions should be simple
    and available for anyone to quote, then it is you who is confused, not
    the customer.                                                 
    
    One price, one warranty that covers it soup to nuts...
    
    

>    Wait.  If you are now implying that our service sucks, you are wrong. 

We haven't been talking about the service in the last few notes, but rather
presenting the warranty material.  I'm not in sales so I don't have to deal 
with that nightmare directly; however, I do hear about it.  We also have our
own issues with SBS in Consulting -- our billing system is a lot less flexible
than it should be.  As I indicated earlier, our antiquated systems and 
procedures hurt us and just make it that much harder for those of us in the
field.  Customers love us -- hate the system.

(Sorry if the Sears analogy went too far into left field -- my issue with 
Sears wasn't with the service personnel, but with the lack of ability to
ever get to them.)

			SQ    
    

>    If you feel .... that Multivendor warranty solutions should be simple
>    and available for anyone to quote, then it is you who is confused, not
>    the customer.                                                 
    
      Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick, or perhaps you didn't mean
    to say that, but WHY shouldn't MV Warranty solutions be simple and
    available for anyone to quote? WHY should it be necessary to find a
    specialist to do it? Most sales assistants in most stores can quote you
    a warranty on their equipment; why are we making it difficult? Just
    because others in particular industry segments may do it that way, it
    doesn't mean that we have to follow them blindly without understanding
    WHY its done that way. It may not be the right way; Follow Me - I know
    where I'm going, I'm a lemming! 8*)
    
>    One price, one warranty that covers it soup to nuts...
    
      THAT'S WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS ASKING FOR! WHY can't they have it UP
    FRONT, instead of constantly having to follow a process to work out what
    that price is for each system? Flat 1 year on-site, 2 years return to
    depot, on all desktop equipment, period. KISS!
    
      I am aware that some people will blather on about industry practice,
    different equipment having different reliability, etc.. Well, if giving
    a 3 year warranty on our monitors would kill any profits there, then
    there is something seriously wrong with the quality of our monitors
    (there certainly is, with some of them at least, but that is another
    rathole). If the quality of _ALL_ of our products was as good as it
    is claimed to be, and should be, then imagine the savings in time gained
    from being able to just state "1 year on site, 2 years rtd" for everything,
    instead of having to work some process for every quote. The trouble is
    that the savings would be made by one organisation, and any additional
    work, and cost, borne by another.
    
      As a previous reply pointed out, one of our attractions is that we
    can provide a 'one-stop shop'. If we are to provide different standards
    and terms for different products, why should customers favour us over
    any other supplier?
    
    Ken                              

    -1:
    
    It is not always simple to quote MVS to a customer because customers
    often want NEC monitors on DELL CPUs with SYQUEST drives, Sierra Quick
    Tape Back up, Symbol Memory and Zoom Fax/Modems....  It can be
    difficult to put together a three year, next day service warranty for
    that.  We can do it, and we do, but it takes some analysys and often
    some cost up price building.  If this is for a distributed environment,
    logistics needs to be involved from the get go, as well as the infamous
    DAF.
    
    

> It is not always simple to quote MVS to a customer because customers
> often want NEC monitors on DELL CPUs with SYQUEST drives, Sierra Quick
> Tape Back up, Symbol Memory and Zoom Fax/Modems....

  Wow! I'll bet! I didn't even realize MVS would *RUN* on all that
  stuff! Their emulators must be way ahead of our emulators! Does
  VM/370 run too?
                                   Atlant

    -1:
    
    MultiVendorServices
    
    Call your MCS rep....

    I have been patiently reading the entire note string on this topic for
    the last 78 or so notes.  We have visited the multi-cultural aspects of
    Americans and Europeans, had an interesting look at the tennis match
    involving peoples opinions about Sears and Sears warranty policies, and
    have had a die hard MCS/MVS rep. continue to charge up Pork Chop hill
    amongst a tirade of ground fire to plant the MCS flag on top and call
    it "THE BEST".
    
    In other words we have gone full circle from base note 0.
    
    Awhile back I elevated the challenges we have in this company of
    selling MCS services to and through our channels partners to the upper
    echelons of our MCS organization.  The good news is that I did get a
    response from them.  The bad news is they know it (the way we do
    business) is terribly broke.
    
    My VAR annually books and sell roughly $5.0M of MCC business on behalf
    of Digital.  They have a dedicated staff in-house just to handle the
    warranty quoting, billing of our services to them and onto the end-user
    customer, and then warranty conversions after the warranty period ends. 
    These are smart, educated and well trained people and they are very
    good at what they do.  
    
    They think, that our systems and processes are some of the most
    difficult, time consuming and hard to work with they have ever seen.  I
    have worked on and looked at some of these quotes they are doing for
    Alpha and VAX systems and they are almost impossible to get quoted easily
    and correctly the first time.  And it can take lots and lots of time. 
    We worked on a simple VAX 4000 quote for 3 days awhile back and I had
    my MCS sales specialist engaged the whole way.  She was pulling her
    hair out in the end over how hard it is to get quotes done.  For the
    life of me I have no clue how MCS people can do their jobs day in and
    day out, they must either have big yellow "S" on their chests or just
    truly love what they do.
    
    We have some channels partners who don't quote warranty anymore because
    it's too difficult for them to get their arms around it.  They buy the
    hardware at list and then sell a day one contract because it's easier
    to administer and costs them less in staffing, follow-up and problem
    resolution.  Remember the magic word to our VAR's is MARGIN.  And to
    make matters even more teneous, awhile back we lowered the Gold Key
    discounts (this is the discount a VAR gets from us for reselling and
    administering our service contracts) by 7 points.  Here today, gone
    tomorrow.  And what do we do?  We put in place a rebate program
    whereby the VAR can claim their credits quarterly and we'll cut them a
    check or credit their A/R with us.  Why? 
    
    My VAR pumps a million bucks a month through our systems and I can't
    tell you how painful it is to here about how hard it is to do warranty
    uplifts and extended service coverage business with us.  I just say
    "Yes I know it's hard, keep selling it and we'll get it fixed soon."
    
    Now here is the real problem.  If we make it too difficult our
    resellers will stop selling it.  Over 60% of our total business is
    going through resellers now.  The targets are around 70%.  If you
    intend to run a successful channel selling model for service resales,
    then you have to make it easy.  And I mean so easy my dog could figure
    out how to do it.  The harder we make it the less cooperation we are
    going to get from our selling partners.  
    
    So, what's the solution?  Get our partners involved in the
    reengineering process.  Reengineer to the customers needs, not ours. 
    Form work teams and start tearing the thing apart, eliminate the
    inefficiencies and question everything.  Ask the, "Why do we do it this
    way?" every step of the way.  If you don't/can't come up with a valid
    business reason, eliminate that step or process.  Push for simplicity
    not complexity and you will win the mindshare and the money of those
    you are seeking.
    
    Mav

    I've also wandered thru all the previous replies and various ratholes
    but not one has really focused on the real problem.
    
    CONSISTENCY is required, I'm currently doing a 3 and 5yr cost analysis
    on a very large system configuration comprising several hundred line
    items - now for every line item I have to check the base warranty
    level, find a part number for the differential to bring all items to
    the same level of service and repeat the process for each and every
    line item, I'll end up with an extra 100 odd different part numbers 
    just to get the system configuration to a consistent level of service.
    
    We should aim at having every item available with the SAME base level
    warranty, then apply fixed percentage uplifts to extend warranty to the
    required level, the pricing of the current uplifts must already be
    derived as some sort of percentage anyway, a simple matrix would enable 
    the percentage uplift to be calculated for the whole item list. 
    
    It doesn't matter whether I do this exercise or engage an MCS
    specialist, the convaluted process still has to be run to completion
    and this is time consuming, profit eating and totally stupid, then you
    have to explain how you arrived at the end solution to the customer.
    
    His reaction was predictable, to say the least "what a load of sh*t" he
    said.
    
    Keep it simple == maximise our profits, minimise our effort.
    
    Maybe I'm only looking from one perspective and over simplifying the
    solution but it has to be easier than it is right now.
    
    Who dreams up these crazy schemes anyway?. Have they ever done such an
    exercise, they would be popping valium after the first ten line items.
    
    The last problem I have is trying to find and understand the warranty
    level of the item, this is no mean feat in itself.
    
    My 2 cents worth,
    
    Steve.

.80�                           ...I'm currently doing a 3 and 5yr cost analysis
.80�    on a very large system configuration comprising several hundred line
.80�    items - now for every line item I have to check the base warranty
.80�    level, find a part number for the differential to bring all items to
.80�    the same level of service and repeat the process for each and every
.80�    line item...
    
    Sounds like a perfect job for a fairly simple spreadsheet accessing a
    database of information that MCS should have at its fingertips. Plug in
    the parts that make up the configuration, set the time line, and out
    comes a warranty cost and differential part # per part and a total.
    
    Why isn't such a tool available today?
    

re .76  The point is that it should be *SIMPLE* for anyone to quote a 
customer this, after all we are all 'sales people' right.  Our systems are 
antiquated and not useful but no one wants to expend the considerable 
resources to fix them and no one wants to mandate to everyone that you will 
use these system exactly as we have laid them out.  There are too many 
kingdoms that say we want to do it this way and to hell with everyone else 
that doesn't want to do it our way and if you don't do it our way we won't 
use it and blame you for screwing us up.  It has to start at BP and come 
down from there.
	lly

    For all you sales-types out there, isn't SWIFT still available via AQS,
    and, if I'm not mistaken, won't it DO IT for you????
    
    Just askin........
    

    yep.....
    
    it is getting to be a very good tool....
    
    

Whether you can create the quote is one thing. I'll grant that it's just a SMOP
to put togetheran application to help with the task.

The real question is whether the customer has the ability, time, or desire to
wade through a monster quote, most of whose line items are warranty upgrades.

\dave

    I have large customers and small.  None of them require line item
    detail regarding Warranty.  They want to know the level of service and
    the amount.  Period.  They do not want to know how much for the disk
    drive, the memory or the tape drive.  They want to know how much for
    the whole thing at a certain level of service....
    
    So, my quotes are generally one line item.
    
    

    
    	Look. Mav is right.
    
    	All sales people want is to have a quote *automatically* give you
    warranty charges with the original hardware quote.
    
    	I'm sitting here with a three line quote in front of me that states
    for warranty "includes storage warranty; reference terms for details".
    Line two - "1-Year Product Foundation Warranty". Line three - "3-Year
    Product Foundation Warranty".
    
    	My reseller has a 3000/800 Alpha Server and the three line items
    are add-ons. He would like an Extended Warranty on the three items to
    run co-terminus with his 3000/800 which has 25 months of three year
    warranty left.
    
    	I am now on day two of getting him an answer. The hardware costs
    $2,164.40 TOTAL. 
    
    	The simple matter is I, as a Digital Rep., must brute force my
    company's business systems, and involve three/four other DECies to
    get this done. It is not stupid, nor slow, nor frustrating, nor
    anything other than just plain dumb.
    
    	AQS should allow a rep to quote warranty with answering a few
    simple fields. Amount of time under warranty, level of service,
    and guaranteed response time Y or N. This ain't rocket science, and
    maybe we should TFSO the people who *think* it is....
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    Well, that's that.  Greybird has spoken.  

    
    Hawk,
    
    
    Tell me about it.  And to boot, when the warranty stuff gets to MCS,
    the information doesn't do us any good a good deal of the time. 
    Product foundation warranty???????  What the heck is that.  This proves
    that the folks putting all these things together aren't talking to one
    another.  
    
    Mike

    
    
>    Tell me about it.  And to boot, when the warranty stuff gets to MCS,
>    the information doesn't do us any good a good deal of the time. 
>    Product foundation warranty???????  What the heck is that.  This proves
>    that the folks putting all these things together aren't talking to one
>    another.  
    

    And this proves that many are not listening to one another.  Seems to
    me that this company has some pretty fearsome individuals working for
    it.  People who know everything about everything and can call the shots
    like a fully automatic pop gun.  Golly gee, I'm humbled as hell.  
    
    Two weeks and counting!  See ya!!

    Ok guys,
    
    We've all agreed that the warranty situation is a load of crock, now
    what steps can we take to escallate this to someone who is in a
    position to explain why it is in the current state and then tell us
    what can be done to simplify the process and DO it.
    
    Who do we forward this string to ????????.
    
    Steve.

Well one of our team members will be having breakfast with Al Snyder (high 
mucky-muck in MCS) and this is a question I've requested be addressed at 
that breakfast.  IMHO I would start at this level or higher (ie BP).

Jilly

    
    
    
    IMO, what need to be done is put AQS and FOCUS into line with MCS.  The
    services recognizes certain warranty types.  Decservice, Basic,
    Carry-In, Full-system Basic and Full system Decservice (to keep things
    on it's most simplistic form).  That way Digital sales and Digital
    services would be speaking the same language.
    
    
    Mike

    Well this certainly has been an interesting string and I hope someone
    does carry the message of how difficult it is to do day-to-day business
    up to someone who cares. Maybe we can start a new string on what a
    nightmare software licensing policies have become, especially if you
    venture into database land. But, I digress.
    
    One simplistic suggestion that I would like to suggest is to change the
    AQS system to allow us Sales types to be able to just say NO. No
    warranty. Just list price. I'd do everything that way, if I could today
    and then write day-one maintenance contracts. The fact is that it is
    impossible for us to quote everthing at list. In my discussions with
    the AQS folks, they are frustrated by this whole mess too, but they
    have to go with what they are given to work with, in terms fo pricing. 
    
    One point that I was trying to make that has received relatively little 
    thoughtful feedback or comment here is impact on the day-to-day
    operations caused by the stovepiping of the company into the Business
    Unit strucuture. I characterized it as Balkenization. The warranty
    issue is only one highly visable result of this re-strucuturing. There
    are probably others that folks can bring up to comment upon. My own
    view is that this is not a good thing. I believe that constant senior
    management attention needs to be focused on making sure that Digital
    continues to exist as an integrated system provider (not to be confused
    with an integrated solution provider, which we were trying to be in a
    past life) and not just a conglomeration of separate business entities 
    which just all happen to be in the same general marketplace.
    
    -OFWAMI- 
    
     

    
    	Mr. Werner, sir...
    
    	But we *love* stovepipes. Only this technique allows us to duck
    responsibility and execution of our goals. Without a murky methodology
    of business structure and organization, management would perish. Don't
    you read Dilbert?
    
    	Organizational disfunction is a requirement for advanced
    finger-pointing 402. If we become fully integrated with clear goals and
    measurement systems, 6000 managers become redundant. Wake up, man -
    enjoy the existing system. In two weeks it will become different again.
    
    	I love reorganizations. I believe we should have at least two a
    year. Just to keep the stress level up, you know...
    
    	Meanwhile, SUN is killing us in workstations; H-P destroys us in
    the mid-range; and now COMPAQ is targetting us in PCs directly. What
    a company....
    
    	<Flame off>
    
    
    			the Greyhawk

    Janet Wallace, V.P. Americas MCS , visited us here in Chicago yesterday.
    During question and answer period the warranty quoting issues were brought
    up. Janet listened and acknowledged the problem but didn't say much
    about what is being done about the complexities.  From her response I
    gathered that she had heard this from other visits in the field and
    that something will be done about it.
    
    I've also heard Bud Lawrence, Americas MCS Admin Mgr, discuss warranty 
    quoting and how it needs to be made simpler.  Obviously upper Management 
    is aware a problem exists.  Let's hope supplemental service quoting
    gets the attention it deserves and simpler quoting methods are
    introduced in the near future.
    
    Monty
    

IMHO A lot of folks will acknowledge that the problem exists but no one 
will come out and draw a line and say it WILL be fixed by such and such a 
date.  I guess no one has the gumption to own the problem and put their 
career on the line to get it fixed.

Jilly

    RE .91 and others....
    
    Here's the MCS string for cards and letters: (as of Feb. 1995)
    
    		John Rando V.P. MCS Business Unit
    		
    		Janet Wallace V.P. Sales and Marketing
    		Peter Mercury V.P. Operations
    		Al Snyder V.P. Service Delivery and Engineering
    		Phil Pietrowski V.P. Business Operations
    		Pam Kenney V.P. Transformation Program (*)
    		Rich Butler V.P. Finance
    		Rob Ayres, V.P. Human Resources
    		Tom Grilk V.P. Law
    		David Creed V.P. Software Product Services, Business Seg.
    		Art O'Donnell V.P. Multivendor Hardware Services Segment
    
    This may/may not be the most current list of who's who within MCS but
    feel free to clarify and correct as necessary.
    
    The Greyhawk once again adds to humor level as heard on WDEC 99.5FM.
    
    Mav

    Re: .94 & 95
    
    Balkanization of Digital is about to hit us big time. Each business
    unit is empowered to implement its own strategy for whatever it wants
    to do, independent of any other business unit that is selling to the
    same set of customers. If you and your customers are confused now just
    wait for next fiscal year.
    
    The problem is still that Digital management is still looking down the
    wrong end of the telescope. Creating the product or service is what is
    the core of the Digital culture is all about (why else do we love to
    dive down technical ratholes :-) ). Selling and supporting it is an
    incidental and annoying overhead activity.
    
    Customers and the press still perceive Digital as a single entity while
    internally Digital Alpha Boxes and Digital Disk Drives are happily
    going their separate ways. Digital Alpha Boxes are embracing the direct
    competitors of Digital Software Stuff. The fact that these factions are
    all still largely selling to the same set of customers seems to have
    escaped everybody except the account teams' notice. Soon the confusion
    will cause said customers to stop buying anything from Digital.
    

    You know, as I started reading -.1, I just heaved a really heavy sigh
    and said "oh, God" and I thought "not again" quickly followed by "won't
    they ever learn?"  
    
    I keep hoping the self evident truths about teamwork, cooperation and
    collaboration will suddenly strike some "higher-up" in the head but I
    guess all my hoping is in vain.  Bummer.
    
    Brian
    

>     Digital Alpha Boxes are embracing the direct
>    competitors of Digital Software Stuff.

In fact, business MUST be free to act reasonably independently.  (Note
that MS ships stuff on an OS that's a direct competitor to Windows, just
for example.)  Individual pieces must be free to succeed or perish
independently of the whole, within reason.

The problems frequently occur when there IS too much linkage (for example,
Digital "systems" crippling Digital software for years by effectively
restricting it to only run on Digital hardware.  Now we find out that,
gee, in fact people don't pay attention to your platform if you don't
generate volumes to make it interesting (and the software isn't "captive"
and prevented from competing on other platforms.)  As we speak, once again,
we seem to be preventing Digital software from exploiting opportunities
on other platforms (based on a variety of "excuses".)

    Trying to be proactive.....
    
    How about this as a starter solution.
    
    We sell hardware. Don't care what it is. Customer places an order. On
    that order (total order, notice), we offer:
    
    1. No warrenty - customer pays day 1 maintenance
    2. 1 year Warrenty
    3. 3 year Warrenty.
    
    There's a single charge per LINE ITEM. Don't care what's on the line item.
    If we (DEC) can't guarentee our products for that length of time, then get
    out of the business. After all, PCs all now have a 3 yr warrenty.
    
    Thats it.
    
    Alan
    

    Actually, Alan...
    Not all PCs offer three year.  Toshiba is just one.
    
    tony
    (who just bought one last week)

    Actually Alan, Not all PCs offer three year, nor do they offer
    same level of service for three year, nor do they all include the
    monitor, nor do they include the second year at the same level as the
    first year or the third year....and if you happen to want a third party
    tape drive attached, it will have it's own warranty for the first year
    which is different from the third year and second year...
    
    One answer for PC warranty problems is to sell PC Utility....

    OK - this proves my point. We can offer something simple and easy. I
    don't care that NOW, we have different rates for yr 2 & 3 (or
    different warrent types).
    
    We offer a SIMPLE warrenty - customer takes it or leaves it.
    
    Alan
    
    [if tosh only offer 1 yr warrenty, more fool them]
    

    >> One answer for PC warranty problems is to sell PC Utility....
    
      Great idea. What happens if they aren't a big enough customer to
    interest this mighty company? From an article about PC Utility in the
    June 1995 edition of Digital Today... "MCS's immediate audience is any
    organisation with a network of 500 or more PCs.", i.e. if you've only
    got 450, shove off and see your reseller. Is PC Utility sold to the 
    resellers who, from previous replies, seem to be the ones having most
    trouble working out DEC warranties?
    
      Alan is making the same point I made in my reply quite a few back; it
    should be SIMPLE, and RIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD. If it isn't reliable
    enough to offer a three year warranty on it without blowing away any
    profits, we shouldn't be selling it, or making it if it's one of ours. 
    
    Ken