Conference 7.286::digital

    There are a lot of de facto standards in the UNIX world that originated
    at Sun.  While they may not have invented it, they surely created the
    basis for many companies' networked computing strategy.
    
    Remember, IBM didn't invent personal computing, but they did set the
    standard.  Much the same could be said for Sun. 

    I wouldn't call them on it. People will either read this and concur
    with it (as -.1 stated) or they will laugh and think "what lunacy!".
    
    If they find it a believable statement, refuting it through letters to
    the editor or contradictory advertising could do more harm than good.
    
    IMHO
    
    /se
    

    I saw that ad, too - DECcie spouse and I both found it sort of silly.
    I've been working for DEC since the beginning of 1976, and we already
    had networking then, and even really primitive networking in the early 70s
    when I was still in college.  So we couldn't figure out what Sun meant -
    maybe that they invented networking for Sun platforms?  The trouble
    with advertising is, it doesn't matter if it is especially truthful
    unless it is so blatantly wrong that the advertiser gets sued.  Any
    controversy just causes more publicity, which is what the ad is there
    for in the first place.
    
    /Charlotte

Digital ran ads a few years ago which said that WE invented networked
computing.  Certainly we were doing it long before Sun ever existed as
a company.

					Steve

    You have to read the wording carefully. Network Computing can be read
    as NFS, which SUN can lay some relatively truthful claim to having
    "invented". Let the HP folks refute this one...they have more claim to
    the term Network Computing, due to their buy-out of Apollo. Apollo
    really invented Network Computing with their Domain stuff. 
    
    Yeah, we had DECnet networks and we had DECnet network services, but it
    wasn't the tightly coupled, relatively transparent stuff that NFS and
    the Apollo Domain brought to the network computing party. I suppose a
    case could be made that NI Clustering was Network Computing and I admit
    I can't remember the timetable of when we introduced that, but it's
    certainly not worth wasting a shot to fire one across SUN's bow just
    because of this ad. 
    
    If we were going to do that, we'd have to take great exception to the 
    recent use of the phrase "the Network Is the System", I believe by IBM. 
    We were using that phrase back in the early 80's...even used it in some 
    ads, if I recall. I think it would be great fun to drag out some of
    those old ads, complete with dates and republish them under the
    heading..."The Network Is The System...Now where have YOU heard that
    before?"
    
    -OFWAMI- 

    Don't be silly, everybody who's anybody knows that Novell invented
    networking, and have market research to prove it (smiley as
    appropriate).

I thought Amway invented networking, no, wait, it was Ponzi.

    
    Here's the full text of the Sun ad (courtesy VNS) and a similarly
    "sincerely flattering" MIPS ad.
    
    BTW, it's Sun who stole "the network is the computer" from our original
    "the network is the system" tagline.
    
<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Edition : 3312               Friday 12-May-1995            Circulation :  4812 

        VNS COMPUTER NEWS .................................  177 Lines

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VNS COMPUTER NEWS:                            [Tracy Talcott, VNS Computer Desk]
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 Sun Microsystems - Advertisement
	{The Wall Street Journal, 9-May-95, p. B3}
   "			#1 UNIX
		Software Environment.

	     #1 Relational Database Server.

		#1 Internet Platform.

   The way we talk about network computing, you'd think we invented it.

   As a matter of fact, we did, way back in 1982.  And for the last 13 years,
 we've helped companies all over the world as they've re-architected their
 businesses to become more competitive.  With systems that deliver more
 flexibility.  More performance.  And lower total cost of ownership.  In
 return, our customers have made us the #1 supplier of UNIX-based network
 computing.  With more units shipped, the largest installed base, and more
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 have made Solaris the #1 UNIX software environment.  They've made our
 SPARCserver systems the #1 relational database platform.  In fact, one of
 every three UNIX licenses, workstations, UNIX servers, and network management
 systems worldwide comes from Sun.  So get in touch with us at
 http://www.sun.com or call 1-800-786-0785, ext. 225.  We'll show you where the
 network is going.  And how to get there before your competition.

						Sun
						The Network Is The Computer"

 MIPS - Advertisement
	{The Wall Street Journal, 21-Apr-95, p. B7}
   "You could run Windows NT without MIPS, but there are more imaginative ways
 of wasting time.

   You could make rubber band balls, for instance.  Or little paper clip
 figurines,  But why on earth would you want to spend more time getting less
 done at work?  Well, the answer is you probably wouldn't.  No one would.  It's
 just that some people may not know that a MIPS RISC-based system can run
 Windows NT applications THREE TIMES FASTER [bold italics - TT] than a Pentium
 processor-based system.  Or that you can also use MIPS RISC with UNIX.  And
 that according to the TPC-C benchmarks, the TOP THREE OLTP SYSTEMS [bold
 italics - TT] use MIPS RISC.  On the other hand, it may be that these people
 DO [italics - TT] know about all these things, and have just had trouble
 convincing other people.  So if you find yourself in this position, and you
 think it might help,  you could always tell them that you chose MIPS RISC
 because of its EXCEPTIONAL PRICE/PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGES [bold italics - TT].
 Or you could tell them that the architecture will get even better with time.
 And it will.  Because we have a roadmap (a plan, really) that will always keep
 us ahead of the technology curve.  In fact, we've already introduced our next
 generation processor, the R10000.  And its performance will be unlike anything
 you've ever seen before.  You might also mention that you chose MIPS RISC
 because NEARLY A HUNDRED COMPANIES [bold italics - TT] have adopted its
 architecture.  Big companies, like Pyramid Technology-Siemens Nixdorf, NEC and
 tandem.  And some that are growing quickly, like Electronics For Imaging,
 Cisco and Silicon Graphics.  You can even tell them it's the NUMBER ONE
 RISC-BASED GENERAL PURPOSE PROCESSOR [bold italics - TT] in production today.
 That usually works.  But if not - if after all that, they still seem unsure -
 just remember that you still have your imagination.  And there will always be
 plenty of office supplies.
   See MIPS RISC systems at two Windows World locations.  Booth #7653 and
 #7534 or visit our World Wide Web site at: http://www.mips.com."

    re: .7, .0 I saw this ad in the Globe this morning and had the same
    comments as have been written here. SUN seems to do a great job of
    copying Digital ads and slogans, first "The Network is the Computer"
    rip-off of "The Network is the System" then this ad (which is almost
    exactly like one we ran a few months ago and also had as a commercial). 
    General Data Comm is another ad copier....they talk about "the unfair
    advantage", a slogan we used about 7 years ago.
    
    I wonder who's really the one's benefiting here....the vendors or the
    ad agencies who seem to recycle the same ad concepts to each of the
    vendors......
    
    Debbie
    

    
    What I'd love to see us do is run our old ads side by side with these
    copycat ads, with maybe a few lines of commentary suggesting the sort of
    conclusions customers should draw.
    
    len.
    
    (BTW, back in the EMA days, I watched HP and AT&T do exactly the same
    thing as Sun is doing here: take Digital's message and repeat it as if
    it were their own.  Do it enough times (Digital's only recently figured
    out the value of saying something repeatedly and widely) and people
    start to believe it was your message all along.
     

RE: .9
	With respect to "the unfair advantage..."

That is a direct rip off from a book (the title) written by Mark Donahue,  
relating to his driving for Penske Racing back in the late 60's,  so it looks 
like we stole it, too...only we waited 20 years after it was used before we 
stole it.   Thats lots better that waiting just 7 years....

    Ad agencies steal off each other all the time. I wouldnt be surprised
    if the same guy who wrote the Digital copy for the "we invented
    networking" did the ads for Novell and has now moved onto another
    agency...wait for his next career move, to IBMs ad agency.
    
    Seems like the ad community has reuse down better than our software
    engineers.

I spend 3 years as a programming manager on an HP3000.
HP had networking at least as far back as 1978.
It included transparent acces to files, including programs.
I'd call that "network computing".

    my comment on Sun's "ad"?        
    
    Never mind the "we invented network computing" claim.  That's fluff
    and noise.
    
    Look at that ad again.  The details are slightly different, but it
    reads just like a Digital ad from the mid 80s.
    
    Everyone here ought to know what follows when the marketeers' trumpets
    are sounding little more than "we have a big installed base so buy from
    us".
    
    								-mr. bill