Conference 7.286::digital

    
    Touch it up on site, if I was the customer I'd have DEC replace the
    whole system.  If this came from Kanata it shouldn't have shipped.
    The sticker must have been put on it so they could replace the box,
    but maybe not.
    
    Customer perception is everything.  They didn't pay us in peso's did
    they, we shouldn't ship them scratched/defective systems.
    
    All as the customer has to say is "Take it back, I'm going elsewhere!"
    
    I'd swap out the system.   Just my opinion, which may differ from 
    the corporate party line.
    
    Contact Peter Zutrauen, CATLAN::ZUTRAUEN 
    He's our contact at Kanata for Mustang/Avanti
    
    /art

��                      <<< Note 3795.1 by WRKSYS::GENOVA >>>
��                -< Touch up paint, not on my expensive Avanti >-
��    
��    Customer perception is everything.  They didn't pay us in peso's did
��    they, we shouldn't ship them scratched/defective systems.

    PC alert.

    	/A difference valuer

    With the way the dollar is going shouldn't that be
    
        They didn't pay us in dollars did they?
    
                                                August

    The guy's lucky he didn't find the QC guy in there! I hear that at the
    end of the quarter, if you're standing still for too long you might just 
    get picked up, packaged and shipped....
    
    8>)

    
    re. 0
    
    Yep, my customer had one of those "tape jobs".
    Bust pegs on a panel were taped up, and on the tape was the word
    "broken"  ...duh.
    
    We got them some new panels asap via customer support.
    
    I was expecting to find a half eaten hamburger in the box too.
    
    There were other things wrong, a real mess. 
    
    Dave
    

	So who's gonna call the plant manager in Kanata and bitch? 
	This is unacceptable output.

							mike

    
    rep .6
    
    Kanata is already working this issue.  But you can call them if you'd 
    like too.
    
    /art

RE: .7

	If the issue is known and being worked, my calling would only
	serve to piss someone off and get in the way.

	Thanks for answering tho. I'm glad it's getting attention.

							mike

    I've already received follow-up from some fairly high up folks in the
    quality world, who are at thtis very moment ferreting out the gliches
    (or grinches)in the system. Fortunately the customer is so excited about 
    playing with his new Alpha toy that he is willing to look past the scratches
    and tape for now. We will fix it, of course, but the memories will
    forever remain, just like I'll never forget the day I picked up my last
    new car and had to take it right back for a soiled door panel. Taguchi
    talked about the loss of qualtiy that comes out of these experiences
    and he was right.
    
    -OFWAMI-
    
    

    well, we've only been building and shipping computers for 30 years now. 
    it's probably about right that some "fairly high up folks in the
    quality world" get involved.
    
    tony

    On a slightly different tack, I work for the Credit & Collections group
    in the UK and we were recently hit by a situation whereby a sales guy
    actually admitted that we had shipped $200k worth of kit in December -
    even though the customer didn't want the kit installed until March - just
    so the guy could make his Q2 numbers!!!
    
    The customer refused point blank to pay a penny until the kit had been
    fully installed and tested.
    
    We had thought that this sort of practice happened but had no proof. Now we
    have.
    
    Although I agree that it helps with the revenue numbers, if this
    happens worldwide, it causes havoc with the Corporation's cashflow.
    
    But then again, IMHO, I don't think there are too many sales people
    who think very hard about the long-term consequences of some of their 
    actions.
    
    Dave
    
    

    
>    But then again, IMHO, I don't think there are too many sales people
>    who think very hard about the long-term consequences of some of their 
>    actions.
    
>    Dave
 
    Dave, I can't find anyway to express my reaction to the above that
    doesn't insult you or get me in trouble......
    
    So, I'll just pass it by......
       
    

    ....RE.11 Dave you are absolutly correct about sales folk
    
    hornet
    

    RE: .11 & .13
    
    Human nature being what it is, I suppose that there would be a few of
    those type of folks in any organization and a few managers above them
    to encourage such behavior (or at least actively look the other way
    when it happens). It has been my observation however that the vast
    majority of the Digital Sales Force are basically honest, hard working
    folks, who want to "do the right thing" (excuse the occasional echoes 
    from the past, I have not completed the re-programming process yet). 
    
    I've also seen people do some pretty stupid things under the guise of 
    "doing the right thing", so far as profits to Digital are concerned, but
    seldom things that were illegal or immoral. All-in-all the old culture
    tended to encourage a somewhat naive but honest approach to business.
    The new culture being what it is may have something to do with behaviours 
    changing to accomodate a "whatever it takes" mentality. That whole
    topic would probably provide the grist for an interesting string.
    
    In this case, apparently doing "whatever it takes" to generate Q3
    revenues seems to have overcome the inclination to "do the right thing"
    and the result was an irretrievable loss of quality in the customers
    eyes. The story of the Digital Alpha delivered with the masking tape
    and the scrathes on the side will undoubtedly provide cocktail party
    fodder for months to come. When was the last time that you kept
    something juicy like that all to yourself? 
    
    -OFWAMI-

    Re the last few in this string...
    
    WRONG! Speaking ONLY for myself (ABU sales) if I don't consider the
    long-term consequences of my actions from my clients' perspective, I
    lose...Digital loses...AND my clients lose. Until 2 quarters ago, I've
    had a single account for the last 5 years. (Now, I have 3 accounts,
    doesn't really change things much, except my business mileage :-)
    
    Guess what happens to sales revenue in that environment if you're not
    considering both the short term AND long term consequences of EVERY
    SINGLE THING our corporation does that impacts the client? Yes,
    short-term goals are critical to the corporation, and my (and my
    managers, etc) compensation, but not at the expense of ever hoping for
    repeat business from these accounts who have VERY long memories!
    
    If you haven't walked in a salespersons shoes, in Digital, now, don't
    make broad assumptions that malign the professional integrity of a
    great many hard working folks.
    
    SteveS

"Never confuse sales with delivery."

		- Old sales joke.

    
>    If you haven't walked in a salespersons shoes, in Digital, now, don't
>    make broad assumptions that malign the professional integrity of a
>    great many hard working folks.
    
>    SteveS

I didn't know that salespersons walked in their shoes. I thought that
all they did was sit behind their desks shining up the back side of
thier slacks waiting for the customer to call.  ;,)


OH this isn't the HUMOR conferance? ;-)

    Rather than upset all the sales people, let's just figure out who
    the one sales person was that pushed the stuff on the customer,
    and if the situation warrants after investigation, do a 64-bit
    butt-kicking session with those responsible.
    
    Value differences, yes.  Tolerate poor business practices, NO.
    
    Dan
    Sales Support

    
    ...is it true that the digital sale force could sell a bag of manure
    
    and make the customer feel like they got a good deal?????
    
    horNET
    

    if .18 is done in the spirit of process improvement, i would agree.
    
    else it just sounds like the old when things are bad let's find a
    scapegoat whose punishment will cleanse us.
    
    that approach certainly has worked well in the guise of TFSO, hasn't
    it?
    
    bk

    re: .20
    
    I can't agree.  If a seller *intentionally* ships an order to a customer 
    before they want it and before they are willing to pay for it, he or 
    she has violated company policy, the ethics of of good business, and
    has caused Digital to *lose money*.  Reduced cash flow (some 4 months
    worth!) *is* money loss, period.  That he or she admits to having a
    personal agenda in doing so, rather than claiming a simple mistake, is
    both laudable and regrettable, at the same time.  That the seller was
    honest enough to admit the reason (personal achievement and money!!) is
    laudable.  That he or she felt the end justified the means is
    regrettable.
    
    Personally, I agree that a 64-bit butt chewing is, indeed, in order, 
    whether or not the process is improved as a result, and his or her
    management (as far up as need be!!) should have an equal portion of the 
    above chewing for supporting a mindset which encourages a seller 
    to do this!
    
    M.
    

Scrap the butt kicking.  Compute how much money was tied up on the customer's
receiving dock, for how long, at a suitably painful interest rate, and 
take it out of the sales rep's commission.  QED, all such activity (or at
least the open admission of such activity) would cease forthwith.

MS

    re .22
    
    Yes, your solution makes good sense, however a good old-fashioned
    butt kicking would be something we could all partake of.
    
    Besides, we could put to work all those one-legged men laid off
    from the last butt kicking convention I keep hearing people
    talk about.
    

    RE .11
    
    I don't know how things operate all over our lovely Digital landscape
    but in the USA there are some checkpoints to keep this kind of thing
    from happening.  First off, the CUSTOMER, sets the expectations around
    when they want their products with us.  We generally tell them the lead
    times in advance and they tell us what month to ship it to them. 
    Customers can request shipment dates as much as 6 months out for our
    products.  So, SALES people have to adhere to the customers wishes
    which they put in writing to us on their purchase order.
    
    Now some customers don't put a date down, they often write ASAP on the
    order signalling they want it yesterday.  So we accomidate those orders
    as soon as is humanly possible.  Now so much for theory let's take a
    trip down the reality highway.
    
    I'm a sales person and I look out and see $200K worth of business that
    possibly can be pulled in and shipped early.  My management team has 
    been beating the living life out of me to go get Q3 business so we can
    "sustain profitability and continue to turn the corner".  Now we have a
    true Kantian ethical dilemma here.  Sales person, tired, overworked
    from both ends and seeing an opportunity to ship products early to help
    himself and the corporations revenue GOALS, goes off and makes
    something happen.  Let's assume for one moment this order was not keyed
    for a March shipment but was one of those "ship it when you can"
    orders.  This may or may not be the case.  Now manufacturing and the
    revenue operations people are just wanting to send that kit across the
    line and into the truck, you can't believe the pressure down on the
    dock area about now as they stand there salavating and staring at $200K
    of prime revenue ready to roll.  So, voila' off she goes into the truck
    and on it's way in the name of metrics, revenue and cash collection. 
    Only we are only going to hit 2 out of 3 of the above.
    
    And who knows, there is no mention here that the sales person overtly
    requested to move the shipment date forward if indeed that did happen. 
    There is a possibility that happened without his or her concious
    knowledge.  That's right, I never, Never, NEVER get an advance notice
    from our company that we are shipping one of our systems to our
    customer.  In fact, they will move orders around willy nilly without
    even picking up the phone to ask, "Say we see this order of $1 bizzlon
    dollars sitting here and if it's ok with you and the customer we  would
    like to ship it early so we can make our numbers for the quarter.  Does
    that fit alright with your customers plans and yours?"  The next
    question I'd have would be, " And the forecast is for snow in hell
    tonight?"
    
    So, before anyone pulls the 64-bit spit out to roast out young sales
    lad or lass over this incident, perhaps we should examine the value
    chain North and South and perhaps even East and West to find out
    exactly what took place.  There are many faces to this Rubik's cube of
    a business and you need to rotate it a number of directions in order to
    see the whole picture.
    
    Mav
    

    ....gee marv did you say all of that in one breath....phew!!!!!!
    
    hornet
    

    Nawww... us sales people don't need to breathe, we do it through our
    eyeballs like "Luke the Nuke" in Bull Durham.
    
    Mav