Conference 7.286::digital

    A very US centric policy change. I wonder if the non US Digital
    employees are supposed to accept the CDW insurance?
    

    Check your personal credit card coverage for collision damage, if you
    need coverage for personal rentals. Many credit card companies cover
    CDW if you use their card to rent a car.

What if we centrally bill the Avis car and have no corp credit card?

Dave

I assume that if you are business travel and rent a car for business use,
then Digital is liable for any damages.  I'd want to see something in
writing about that, though.

>    Thank you for your attention to this program change.  There are 
>    savings to the corporation which will be significant over time and 
>    will benefit our efforts to sustain profitability.

Yes, savings to the corporation out of the pockets of the employees.  
Given that the so-called corporate credit card already places significant
liability for Digital's business expenses on the employee, this latest
change suggests that Digital doesn't really want its employees to travel at
all.  I suppose that would save a lot of money.

				Steve

>    This is provided for your information only. No responses are 
>    required.
    
    I love memos that start off this way. When and if I get my copy, I'll
    be sure to respond in some way. It is a very good question about what
    they will do with central billing...

�                    <<< Note 3759.2 by MAIL1::ANDREASSEN >>>
�                     -< CDW COVERAGE ON PERSONAL RENTALS >-
�
�    Check your personal credit card coverage for collision damage, if you
�    need coverage for personal rentals. Many credit card companies cover
�    CDW if you use their card to rent a car.

Also check with your personal vehicle insurance company.  Many policies 
will cover a rental car if yours is safely at home while you're on 
vacation.

      This is a fact, your own insurance company policy can and will cover
      your damages to a rental car. However, In some state such as Florida you
      have to pay the damages to the can before leaving. Then you have to
      come home and get the money from your insurance company. The rental
      agency will not wait for the claim.  We alway turn down the rental
      agencies insurance, because our Nationwide Insurance does cover us
      in rental car on Vacation. BUT, big BUT we have a credit card with
      a limit that will cover the cost of the car we rent, just in case
      we have a fender bender.   We were behind a lady in Tampa that was
      we restrained because she did not have the money to cover the damages
      to the car she rent and she opt no insurance. We ended up putting it
      on her credit card.
    
                  Dot..

    On the other hand, recently State Farm (my auto insurer) explicitly
    changed their policies not to cover rental cars used for business
    purposes.  They said that they did not want to subsidize an expense
    that should be paid for by the business, not the employee.
    
    				-John
    

Not only that, but what your own insurance might cover is subject to
your deductible.

There is no way that an employee's personal insurance should be liable for
damages incurred on company business.

					Steve

>     Check your personal credit card coverage for collision damage, if you
>     need coverage for personal rentals. Many credit card companies cover
>     CDW if you use their card to rent a car.

Be careful with this.  In my experience, most credit cards provide
SECONDARY (not primary) insurance, meaning that you have to use your
own personal car insurance first before the credit card provides any
coverage.

from VTX TRAVEL:

First Bank Visa Business Card Auto Rental Insurance is primary coverage
worldwide.

In other words, when your rental is primarily for business purposes, Visa
Business Card coverage will pay from dollar one.  You do not have to claim
payment from any other source of insurance before receiving benefits under
the policy.

However, if you are on a personal trip and use your Visa Business Card to
rent a covered vehicle, your personal insurance would be primary coverage.  In
this case, Visa Business Card CDW would be secondary coverage and would pay only
for the outstanding deductible portion of your primary coverage.  If you have
no personal insurance, Visa Business Card coverage is primary.

I have insurance in the U.S. If I use my corporate visa card to rent a car in 
Europe for personal use, is this covered as primary?

For personal car rentals, AAA also has deals with some rental agencies (I
think Herz, but I'd have to look it up) that gives you free CDW.

    RE: .11
    
>However, if you are on a personal trip and use your Visa Business Card to
>rent a covered vehicle, your personal insurance would be primary coverage.  In
>this case, Visa Business Card CDW would be secondary coverage and would pay only
>for the outstanding deductible portion of your primary coverage.  If you have
>no personal insurance, Visa Business Card coverage is primary.

    Wait a minute.  I was under the impression that you were not allowed to
    use the corporate Visa for personal use...  Is this allowed?
    
    				-John

it would appear to be a conflict.  For more information, suggest you call
                              QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

                                     FOR THE

                       CORPORATE TRAVEL CHARGE CARD PROGRAM

                               WITH FIRST BANK VISA


  TELEPHONE NUMBERS FOR YOUR REFERENCE
  ADMINISTRATIVE QUESTIONS:     1-800-344-5696  OR 1-612-973-2877 COLLECT
  EMERGENCY, LOST/STOLEN CARDS: 1-800-VISA-911  OR 1-410-581-9994 COLLECT

    
    
    	Re: .0
    
    	Many credit cards, those that you might carry for personal use,
    	have the same auto insurance coverage that the corporate card
    	does.  My gold mastercard does...don't recall for Amex.  Check
    	the ones you carry, if you do.   Diane

    COLLISION DAMAGE WAIVER IS NOT INSURANCE!.  IT IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN
    YOU AND THE RENTAL CAR COMPANY THAT THEY WILL NOT SUE YOU FOR DAMAGES
    IF THE CAR IS RETURNED DAMAGED.  YOUR PERSONAL AUTOMOBLIE POLICY
    GENERALLY COVERS RENTAL CARS IN THE UNITED STATES.  THE WAIVER IS
    GENERALLY A WASTE OF MONEY!

Re: .16

Not so.  Almost all of the collision coverage offered by personal credit cards
is "secondary" to your own auto insurance, which means they'll pick up
what your insurance doesn't cover (with limits and exceptions).  Your 
personal insurance company will laugh if you ask them to pay for damage
caused while you were on company business - that's not their responsibility.
Check your policy carefully.

					Steve

    This is exactly why you should not use a personal card to rent a car
    on business.  When Thomas Cook reserves a car for business for me,
    all the liability is shouldered by Digital/Avis, not me.  I am an
    agent for Digital.  As long as I follow the rules, using TC and my
    corporate VISA, it is someone else's problem.

Car rentals are a piec o' cake if you use an AVIS voucher, rather than a
corporate card. Then AVIS does not have any credit card number on file for you,
and they have no easy way to come after you, for whatever reason. Thomas
Cook routinely provides these vouchers for Digital corporate travel.

--RS

> Car rentals are a piec o' cake if you use an AVIS voucher, rather than a
> corporate card. Then AVIS does not have any credit card number on file for you,
> and they have no easy way to come after you, for whatever reason. Thomas
> Cook routinely provides these vouchers for Digital corporate travel.

Under the new policies they come after your cost center if you incur
damage to the car (if you don't use the corporate credit card).  I
suspect your cost center manager would not be pleased.

    I'd say that would be the right place to come.  I guess the question is:
    
    "To whom am I responsible for my behavior on company-sponsored travel?"
    
    My answer would be: my manager.
    
    				-John

    I have the choice of putting my direct cost center
    at risk by not using the card or putting the corporation
    at risk by using the card.......Hmmmm let me see?
    
      

    Its the same thing!  Like your cost center manager would have to
    personally pay for the car's damage from his/her check book?  I
    think not!
    
    				-John

>    Its the same thing!  Like your cost center manager would have to
>    personally pay for the car's damage from his/her check book?  I
>    think not!
    
  Having it come out of your cost center's budget is NOT the same as having it
come out of Digital's corporate budget. The latter your manager might not even
hear about. The former could be highly damaging to your career.

  Re: Should Digital pay for accident damage when one is on company business?
  I had always assumed that if I was using my own car for business travel, the
answer was "no". For rental cars, the case is a little different because the
rental car may be far more valuable than any car you would own, and the rental
car company may inflate the damage figures.
  Though I dislike the idea of having to pay for CDW on a rental car for com-
pany business, I would rather do this than risk having to pay for accident
damage to said car out of pocket.
  Digital's headquarters may have made this new rule on the assumption that
almost everyone can get coverage for business rental cars from their personal
car insurance. As several replies have said, this is not a safe assumption.
Most insurance companies cover rental cars IF NOBODY USES YOUR OWN CAR WHILE
YOU HAVE THE RENTAL CAR. If there is more than one driver in your family, and
the other driver doesn't travel with you, it is very hard to make sure your
car is not used while you are away.
  I think I read somewhere that it is possible to purchase extra insurance
(NOT from the rental car company) for the express purpose of covering your
rental car if your own car is in use at the same time. Maybe Digital could
establish a policy to allow people to purchase such insurance at company ex-
pense for business travel only. It would probably be much cheaper than the
CDW.

>                     <<< Note 3759.7 by WILBRY::MCNULTY >>>

>      This is a fact, your own insurance company policy can and will cover
>      your damages to a rental car. However, In some state such as Florida you
>      have to pay the damages to the can before leaving [the state]. 
>      Then you have to
>      come home and get the money from your insurance company. The rental
>      agency will not wait for the claim.

  One of the reasons I spend several hours a week reading notesfiles is to
pick up things like this that my other sources, such as Bottom Line and the
AAA magazine, should have told me but didn't. This is a biggie, and I imagine
several thousand tourists a year get into trouble because of this. I'm going
to post something about this in the Florida notesfile.

    OK, maybe I got it figgered out.  Pay for the car on the voucher, as
    always, and pay for the CDW separately, then expense it.  Is this
    possible?
    
    (I told a guy from Unisys about our expense/travel policies.  He
    *still* thinks I'm makin' it all up!)
    
    								Tex

There's actually an easier way around it.  Take taxis everywhere.

				Steve

�       <<< Note 3759.26 by TOOK::MORRISON "Bob M. LKG1-3/A11 226-7570" >>>

�  Digital's headquarters may have made this new rule on the assumption that
�almost everyone can get coverage for business rental cars from their personal
�car insurance. As several replies have said, this is not a safe assumption.
�Most insurance companies cover rental cars IF NOBODY USES YOUR OWN CAR WHILE
�YOU HAVE THE RENTAL CAR. If there is more than one driver in your family, and

I believe that most personal insurance companies will cover rentals if
they're being used for personal use.  I believe the insurance companies
would expect the business to pick up all costs associated with the rental
of a car for business purposes. 

My understand of waiving CDW is that it tends to be cheaper for the 
business to pay out of pocket for the occasional vehicle damage than it is 
to pay CDW for all business rentals.

Other companies also request this of their employees (waive things like 
CDW).

    At one time there was some special note about renting in UK on
    business.  I do not have the corporate charge card.  I have Avis
    voucher for the car.  The corporate guideline still says "NO CDW".
    
    Do I have any options or just assume the risks on behalf of the
    corporation?
    
    - Vikas

Re -1

In UK Travel P&Ps require us to use AVIS and decline all optional insurances.

Hope this helps,

Nick

I understand from the policies that if you do not use your Corporate
Credit Card and have an accident, then Digital is responsible for
only $3000.  My question is who pays the rest.

Does anybody have a process to follow when you do not use a Corporate
Credit card and have an accident with an AVIS car?


Thanks

Dave

    probably your own auto insurance or homeowners insurance...
    
    What I do is use the Corporate VISA... which covers all the insurance. 
    Then, when I return the car, undamaged... I sometimes switch to my own
    VISA for actual billing.  That way, I can also get the FF miles.
    
    Cheating?  Perhaps.  But, I'm worth it.  ;^)
    
    tony

    re: .-1
    
    This practice is risky.  What if Avis determines after the fact
    that the car was damaged.  Someone hit you in a parking lot and
    you didn't notice the damage.  Avis didn't even notice it until
    that evening when they serviced the auto.  The fine print on
    the rental contract says the bill you get when you return the
    car may not be final.  
    
    You must complete the transaction with the corporate Visa, including
    the actual charge, to get their insurance.
    
    

    true... and I understand that.  And accept the risk.
    
    tony

    Unless Avis noted this on my receipt, it would be too late, as in, How
    do I know one of your attendents didn't smash it up making a donut
    run?

    re: <<< Note 3759.38 by NCMAIL::SMITHB >>>

    >Unless Avis noted this on my receipt, it would be too late, as in, How
    >do I know one of your attendents didn't smash it up making a donut
    >run?
    
    It's never too late. If you read the contract that you sign, you will
    notice that Avis reserves the right to "adjust" your bill after you
    have left, and you have very little recourse when they claim damage
    to the car (other than court). Why do you think the lawyers keep
    getting richer?
    
    Geoff

    Remember that contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on
    unless a judge says so...  They can make all the 'adjustments' they
    want, that doesn't mean they will get money for it.

    Speaking from bitter experience, they have more lawyers than you do.
    They can also trash your credit record, refuse to rent to you in the
    future (bad if you travel for business), and generally make your life
    less than enjoyable if they really want to do so.
    
    This doesn't happen to everyone; in most cases a quiet talk with the
    manager on duty gets things cleared up, but adopting a holier-than-thou
    attitude sets their corporate cogs in motion to grind you down.
    
    Geoff
    

    The risk to the rental agency being wrong is much greater than my
    not being able to rent from them.  It is not a holier-than-thou
    attitude either, when they hand me a 'paid' receipt, our relationship
    has ended.  Anything after that is their problem.  If you rent a movie,
    watch it, rewind it and return it, and they call you later and say
    your trashed the movie, would you pay for it?  Not.

    re: renting a video analogy
    
    Actually, most video stores require a credit card number when you open
    your account with them to which they can apply late charges, tapes not
    returned, 'broken seal' damage, etc. It's been this way with every
    video store with which I've done business (Blockbuster, American Video,
    etc.). As a matter of fact, I was renting a tape from Blockbuster one
    time and the clerk informed me that the card I used when opening the
    account had expired since the last time I had rented and did I have a
    current credit card? I should have said no just to see what would have
    happened but I suspect that they would not have rented me the video.
    
    BTW: I no longer do business with Blockbuster as they kept trying to
    stick me with late fees for tapes which were returned on time.

    
   >> BTW: I no longer do business with Blockbuster as they kept trying to
   >> stick me with late fees for tapes which were returned on time.
    
    You don't have to tell me.  I returned a tape once in January -- and it
    was on time -- and sometime in March got a charge on my Mastercard for
    a late charge on this tape.  I went down and protested but without
    success.  They would not give in.
    
    Needless to say, I haven't done business with them since.

   Re: Note 3759.43 by AWECIM::MCMAHON "DEC: ReClaim TheName!"
   

�    re: renting a video analogy
    
�    etc.). As a matter of fact, I was renting a tape from Blockbuster one
�    time and the clerk informed me that the card I used when opening the
�    account had expired since the last time I had rented and did I have a
�    current credit card? I should have said no just to see what would have
�    happened but I suspect that they would not have rented me the video.
   
   This happened to me 3 weeks ago.  I told them I no longer used credit
   cards.  The clerk looked at me, shrugged, and then made some entry in
   my record.  Other than that, it's business as usual.  Didn't seem to
   affect on my using the card at other Blockbuster stores.

    I'm a bit surpised that you (the generic "I don't go there anymore
    types") don't choose to support our customers. All Blockbuster Video
    stores have numerous Digital PC's under the counter. One for every
    register.
    
    .mike.

    Are they PCs?  USed to be dumb terminals.
        
    The City of Nashua uses VT525s for its online work.

    Just because Philip Morris is our customer doesn't mean Digital 
    employees should all smoke cigarettes. 

    Lisa

    Check under the counter  (if you can see it) at Blockbuster Video and
    you should be able to see the (I believe) Venturis <mumble> that runs
    the register. Those I haven't had to fix (yet) just printers so far.
    
    RE: <Phillip Morris> Ok, that's a gotcha, but following that line of
    thought, since "Victoria's Secret" is a DEC shop, does that mean I have
    to wear the fancy under-things? :-)
    
    .mike.

    >> I'm a bit surpised that you (the generic "I don't go there anymore
    >> types") don't choose to support our customers. All Blockbuster Video
    >> stores have numerous Digital PC's under the counter. One for every
    >> register.
    
    Other things being equal, I always choose to support our customers. 
    But they're not.  They screwed up and wouldn't fix things so they lost
    my business.  Just as we have lost customers when we've screwed up.
    
    Do you suppose they bought our PC's because so many Digital people rent
    their tapes? :^)
    
    Every business -- Digital and Blockbuster -- has to be able to stand on
    its own merits first.
    
    Larry