Conference 7.286::digital

I strongly suggest you take this up in GIADEV::DECSTATION.

				Steve

    Even with out 20% EPP discount our 590 Pc's are 25% higher than
    than Zeos or Gateway.  I sure want to buy our products, but can't
    afford them!!!
    
    

    Dave,
    
    I would contact the product manager for this directly.  I am not
    exactly sure of who this is but I know it is one of a couple of folks
    that would be very inerested in hearing about this AND would try to
    correct it.  
    
    Brian

Re: .2

That's not true.  5-10% higher, maybe.  But I think you're getting a better
system than you'd get from Zeos or Gateway.

				Steve

I think the final quote between Dec and Gateway was
about ~$200 per system more if they were to match
up apple to apple. This was also based on the discounts
the company got for already being a Digital customer.

But I agree with Steve, The Digital units are a bit more
reliable then Zeos and Gateway based on the last review 
I look at. Digital price is more in line with Dell and 
Compaq.

Dave 

    So, what's the base Noters problem? Doesn't he understand that we're
    DEC and he's not. What nerve tying up our Premier PC Support line for
    all that time. That's the kind of stuff that we in the field put up
    with everyday. That's The New Digital. I ran into the same types of
    issues with the PCBU a whle back and their final resolution to the
    issues was to state - "That's the nature of the PC business and your
    customer should expect these types of problems". I've never called them
    back and neither has my ex-customer. "That's the the nature of the
    marketplace today and Digital should expect to lose those
    customers"...and that'sd all I have to say aboput that.
    
    -OFWAMI-

    
    Thats not the end of it either.  Digital has a BIG ad in Sundays 
    globe to hire college kids for the PC service industry.......
    
    Let go the expensive engineers, (you know, the ones with the
    experience) and hire green kids who grew up with PC's for FAR less
    than the expensive ones. Even THEY would not be able to help
    here.......  Only problem is that they are STILL using the EXPENSIVE
    management to manage the green/not too expensive guys.  Why don't
    they hire some green college management material......that way
    they 'may' get competetive.
    
    p/t
    

   Everyone familiar with computers knows that no perfect, bug-free system
   has ever been created.  Then why would Intel replace expensive Pentium
   chips and absorb a charge against earning to repair a problem that
   arguably crops up only once every 27,000 years?  Because today's
   computer customer's *don't* know that.
   
   When Digital sold to knowledgeable technical, scientific, and
   professional users, the idea of incipient bugs was not foreign but more
   or less acceptable to them.  As long as problems were documented in
   release notes they were tolerated.  Software was sold "as is" --
   encountering a bug, even one that lost data or prevented a task from
   being accomplished, was not considered an acceptable reason to demand a
   refund. In fact, some support and development engineers argued that once
   a product was in the field, unless a customer actually encountered a bug
   there was no need even  to tell them about it -- a 'what they don't know
   won't hurt them' attitude that has been swept away in the retail market.
   
   Retail customers, used to exchanging major appliances if they arrive
   chipped or returning restaurant servings if they're too cold, do not
   accept the idea that computers are imperfect.  The outrage expressed on
   the Internet over what Intel called a "subtle" bug in the Pentium
   floating-point unit gives testimony to the voice of the retail customer.
   Intel's support personnel were instructed to interrogate customers who
   called for a replacement, asking what they used their systems for in an
   attempt to ascertain if the replacement was 'needed.'  This approach was
   a public-relations disaster; Intel was seen as "arrogant and uncaring,"
   as they themselves admitted when on December 20 they announced a new
   policy of no-questions-asked replacements.
   
   And Digital's initial response to its customers -- 'Call Intel' -- was
   inexplicable to consumers who saw the "Intel Inside" sticker but also
   the "Digital" logo on their box and didn't care where the components
   originated.  One Internet user flatly declared that Digital "didn't
   stand behind its product," i.e., the Pentium chip in its PC.
   
   What can we learn from this?  First, if we want to play the retail game,
   we have to play by retail rules.  That includes no-questions-asked
   warranties, support of every component within the box, knowledgeable
   answers to questions about third-party software, and, above all, the
   attitude that retailers have adopted for decades: the customer is always
   right.

    
    
    re. 5
    
    You need to stop believing some of those so called accurate reviews
    your reading and base your decision on experience. Would you rate
    your wife's experience with Digital as "5 Star"?
    
    Sorry but, I disagree with your reliability statements regarding
    Gateway. I own one and am very happy with it. I gave our company
    a shot a my money. But...as expected..couldn't even get through
    the phone line. And when I did, couldnt' get a straight answer.
    And lastly....couldn't afford the pricing evern with 20% (a farce)
    off. For the same componants.
    
    We really do have a lot of work to do in this pc market. Especially
    for the home market.
    
    

    If the DECpcs won't configure easily into the network then what does it
    matter how reliable they are???
    
    They're still worthless, aren't they???
    
    In the UK we'd probably be sued for supplying product that wasn't fit
    for purpose.

    For Goodness sake - Somebody help the basenoter!!
    
    He (and his wife) have put out for Digital and secured a sale against
    some of the toughest competition around and at the first sign of a
    problem we (corporate Noter-land) breaks into (roughly) two camps 
    sagely arguing ;
    
    		EITHER
    
    	"Our stuff *REALLY* is better than the competition"
    
    		OR
    
    	"Could have told you this would have happened - Digital don't
    	 really DO PCs"
    
    I'm not in PCBU but I understand that the 3-COM compatibility problem
    is a serious issue that has high visibility and is being actively 
    worked.  Can't we get someone from the PCBU to issue a statement 
    with an estimated fix time and send it personally to the Customer.
    
    Talk about "whatever it takes" - sheesh.
    
    /Chris.  

  Re: .9

  Thanks .11

  Experience is what reviews are usually based on. I am sure their are a
  lot of people happy with the their Gateway, Packer Bell, Etc... But  are
  they one of the few or many is the question? Most  reliabilty review are
  based on data taken from customers who brought the brand of computers
  they are surveying. So unless you have a number of sources (friend, 
  co-worker etc..), you might start out in the Magazine rack. Is it worth
  the extra $200 to go with a Brand name? That is up to the buyer.

  As for my wife company experience, no is not a 5 star experience. But
  it's also just not setting up the PC as a stand alone and running it at
  home. Their is a much more technical situation where I would think
  Digital should of had a support van over there to find out what is the
  problem.  Considering they were local (Nashua) and that they purchased 9
  high end PC's. I was just wondering where was the 1 year on site and
  2 year ship out warranty.


  Dave 
  

Just got a contacted by the PC group.

I will get an update after the responsible engineer
get back for California on Jan 3rd.
                            
Thanks,

Dave

    
    The XL Product Manager is Mike Sanford, 244-7018.  His boss, who is
    aware  of 3COM problems is Margaret Rimmler, 244-6998
    
    rke (Someone in the PCBU)
    

    
    You and your wife have a lot of patience.
    
    Good luck.
    
    

I just talked to my wife co-worker and he resolved the connection 
problem by deleting the WFW 3.11 that was pre-installed by Digital in the
XL machine. He then installed WFW 3.11 from diskette he had gotten when he
purchased the Zeos. He still doesn't know why the pre-installed version
would not allow him to talk to the 3com card but it is working now.

I would not think there would be a difference between the pre-installed version
and the diskette version of WFW 3.11?
                         
The PC group have been a great help and hopefully they can duplicate the problem 
so they can trouble shoot it and correct it.

Again, thanks for the help,

Dave

    Being ignorant of how things work in that part of the company I'm a
    trifle confused...  
    
    In .13, Dave says:
    
>	Just got a contacted by the PC group.
>	
>	I will get an update after the responsible engineer
>	get back for California on Jan 3rd.
    
    Yeah, I saw the later reply where the customer blew away the installed
    software and started over with a kit from another manufacturers PC...
    
    Does this mean the customer must either A: Find and fix their OWN
    problem if they want their systems to work within the next 2 WEEKS, or 
    B: Digital only has 1 person who can help and that person is
    unavailable in California, or C: Every effort is being expended to get
    this customer up and running, but detailed research and a definitive
    answer will not be forthcoming until the person returns from CA?
    
    Someone PLEASE tell me this customer wouldn't have been sitting for AT
    LEAST 2 weeks with 9 EXTREMELY expensive paper weights while Digital
    waits for the only person left in the company that can help them to
    return from the west coast...  Perhaps I misunderstood...

    
    I thought the same thing, but pointing out seemed just to piss people
    of.....well it must be the new Digital.
    
    If somebody told me the same thing and it were my pc's they wouldn't
    get away with it.
    
    But I have little patience with such crap responses.
    

    
    Don't mess around in the middle of PCBU management.  Send your original
    note to Pesatori.  He can get John Rando involved on the services side.
    
    Good Luck, you're going to need it.
    BT

  I guess it was a good thing he had the WFW 3.11 on diskettes. If he
  did not, I guess the XL might of been in the SF Bay by now. I just hope the
  PC group can find out the problem so none of our other customers has this
  same problem.

  Let just hope it's only on some of the XL's and not the Celebris also. 
  They got a quite a few of them in Nashua waiting for him to set up 
  when he gets back. I gave him a inside contact to the PC group in case 
  he has any trouble with the Celedris or maybe if he has anymore tschnical
  questions on the XL.

  Otherwise, I think he really likes the performance of the XL. 

  I will follow up after January 3rd just to make sure they are all set.

  Dave

I have been reading about a lot of problems with the 3COM adapters.  I
recommend browsing recent entries in GIADEV::DECSTATION.  Apparently these
cause problems with many PCs, not just ours.

				Steve

This sounds more like WFW 3.11 was not setup right. Most likely blowing it all
away and reinstalling restored the default setup information which turned out to
work. WFW is still WFW no matter where it comes from, right? Or is there a
special version being bundled with the XL's? Or perhaps some Digital OEM setup
that was not present in the Zeos version, or a slightly different revision of
the software?

    
    We do not install everything in the WFW 3.11 floppies onto the disks.
    things like all the drivers for example.
    
    by the way did they buy the network cards from us ? 
    was it packaged in the system ?

For what I understand, everything was purchased from Digital because the
MIS manager insisted on it. 

Dave