Conference 7.286::digital

    That type of story has happened at a furniture store on Route 9 
    in Westboro.  This time is was a construction guru in his work
    clothes waiting to be serviced by salesforce to buy furniture.
    He walked around until one salesman approached him.  Finished
    the sale of $89k worth of stuff for furnished rental units.

    Is this an urban ledgend or what?

    jacqui,
    
    coming from someone who has dealt with this sort of thing in the past,
    it is real.  two car dealerships in this town lost a sale a few years
    ago from me.  I was out with two kids, a very beatup honda and my
    gardening clothes looking at cars.  I was virtually ignored by two
    dealerships.  I made my decisions between two dealerships who were
    willing to look at and take the time to talke to a woman with two kids
    and apparently not prosperous.  
    
    i refer people to these dealers and away from the other two.  
    
    Now out of the rathole, someone must know a VAR who can help put this
    deal together if they aren't a big enough "fish" for digital.
    
    meg

    how about Corporate Customer Relations     800-332-4636

    Michael, I sent the name of a VAR for the Mid-Atlantic Area to you,
    hope this helps.

    Mike
    
    	Could you please let us know if you can make this deal fly.
    This is something you hear alot of within DEC. I think once is way to
    munch and unable to put into words when this appears to happen day in
    and day out. If this problem is not fixed then Digital has found a
    perfect receipy for screw up pie or cake. We should hear less "that's
    not my job man." That sentence should be banned.
    
    Regards,
    
    Denis
    

    About 6 years ago the PDP11 Support group in the Colo. Spgs. CSC
    got a $3000.00 check from a customer for disk recovery services.
    This was a customer who had both software and hardware contracts.
    
    Because we were not a "revenue generating" cost center
    
    WE HAD TO SEND THE CHECK BACK!!!
    
    The PDP11 group pioneered the ROP program in the CSC's and we had
    a fight the whole way.  As far as I can tell nothing's changed.
    Does that answer the question about whether we REALLY want the
    money?
    
    Steve Pitt
    PDP11 Support (for now)

    
    Mike, if you are still running around looking for a rep. Call me. I'll
    take care of them one way or the other. Guaranteed.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    	Such things are certainly not urban legend.
    
    	Around 20 years ago a customer wearing a greasy leather jacket and
    jeans walked into the small DEC office in
    which I worked and handed a detailed configuration to the receptionist,
    pulled out his cheque book, and asked how soon he could expect delivery.
    Simple sale?  Well it had a happy ending - I eventually did his
    software installation. The configuration cost about 6 times my annual
    salary at the time.
    
    	It took several days before we could even find a salesman to talk
    to him, firstly because the receptionist was just there to do
    receptionist jobs and didn't even realise we sold computers, then
    because nobody knew which product line should sell to him since he
    hadn't said what he wanted the computer for. After that there was
    checking whether he was on the Denied Parties list....  Such a thing
    couldn't happen these days, could it?
    
    	I can also vouch that the car dealer story is not urban legend. A
    few years later I wanted to buy a new car, and the Volkswagen dealer
    refused to talk to me, possibly because I was wearing my gardening
    clothes. As it turns out this was quite fortunate because just over a
    year later I relocated to France, and French beaurocracy is a lot more
    friendly to a Renault owner than a Volkswagen owner :-)

    Michael,
    
    most sales reps would be more than willing to look into your
    "opportunity" - the problem is not the sales rep, it is that Digital
    has tied our hands to specific named accounts - However, if it it isn't
    a named account there are plenty of channels reps to handle
    this...Since you didn't give any details or where or who, then I
    suggest you call the local VP's office where the opportunity is - for
    ex. if it's the Southern States call Al Hall's office...or as someone
    has previously suggested call Corp. Relations.
    
    If you still have a problem, send me the details and I will forward it
    to the right party.
    
    ss
    

    It is unbelievable how mnay mail messages and phone calls this has
    generatered.  On Monday, I should be talking to the person I am/have
    been looking for.  
    
    Thank You all for your help...  And I wish all the best to Digital, 
    because my next job partly depends on your success.
    
    Mike Austin
    RDB Support (yes one of the 250...)

    RE: .1
    
    I know the individual mentioned. Yes, it is true. Sometime ask him
    about the car dealer that chased him off the lot and how he bought 2
    cars at rock bottom price.
    
    Howard

RE: .10

	Sad state of affairs if this notesfile is the only avenue for 
	networking to the right folks.

	SLT, it's time to fix another problem..

						mike

    
    Okay, GreyHawk -- No cherry-pickin'
    
    Regards,
    
    
    Street Peddler

    On sales reps and account assignments...(flame on)
    
    Funny thing.  I am in a (basically) sales support position.  I deal
    with customers day in and day out, generating revenue.  It is a rare
    day that I can find a sales rep who wants to participate in closing
    this business.  Luckily, I can actually sell this business myself. 
    What I cannot do is book (Cert) the sale, because I'm not sales coded 
    and have no badge in the system. 
    
    I must rely upon the "real" seller to do this.  What is really crazy 
    is that, with the way things are now set up, I often have trouble 
    finding someone who can book the business!  This named-accounts-only 
    stuff is for the birds.  (flame off)
    
    (sigh) There, I feel better now.
    
    M.
    

    
    Hey , M - send it to Channels. we'll book anything that moves and can
    fog a mirror. If there's a way, your local channel recruiter will find
    it. Call us, we love challenges.
    
    		the Greyhawk

One more story...

Some of my good friends work at a local medical center (town 
next to Maynard).

Their VAX was aging and the software for patient scheduling and 
billing needed to be replaced.

HP cold called them 6 times.

IBM cold called them twice.

After four phone calls to their sales rep (and no returned calls)
they asked if I would try and help.  I called the sales rep. who
returned my call with the snide response that "their system is
working fine".

With a good 40% of their customers in one way or another connected 
to Digital, not to mention they were already on Digitial systems, 
all we had to do was show up!

They spent $250,000+ on an HP system that they are not at all 
satisfied with.  

Couldn't believe it.  How large a sale must it be before we
are even interested in approaching a customer?

	Shouldn't this type of business go to VARS and Channels? Maybe
	Bob and the SLT need to set up a 1-800-DEC-VARS number that
	we can all call with sales leads?

	We can't let $1 get away from us nowadays. If we can't sell it
	direct (and in may instances, we shouldn't), we should have a
	very easy method in place, via a toll-free number or email
	address, to get these sales leads followed up by our selling
	partners.

	Sounds like we are asking for direction.  (clear direction)

							mike

    re: title.
    
    No they don't.  I honestly tried to spend some money, and a few folks
    tried to sell me stuff, but I had to go elsewhere.  And I wasn't
    just buying "a peecee".
    
    MadMike

    .18
    
    You hit it on the head about making it easy to pass these leads.
    There really are strategies in place; problem is too few in field
    offices really understand them.
    
    We've had a lot of calls at DEC-SALE from end users; every time I've
    chased one of these down the referral was done by someone in a local
    office (typically MCS) who had a potential customer but didn't know
    what to do with them now the sales has been gutted.  We've got a lot
    of temps out there and they don't have a clue.
    
    At one time field offices had designated people (forget their titles,
    but somehow associated with corporate customer assistance & sales);
    these people did take the leads on potential sales and passed them
    to local channels/re-sellers.  I think we TFSO'd these customer
    assistance types (all) about 1 1/2 yrs ago :-(
    
    Karen
    

    Hey Greyhawk, this sounds like a business opportunity to me.  I mean
    think of the leads we could get routed to a company who could go out
    and address the follow-up on various leads it receives.  
    
    But seriously, there is a mechanism for this type of business.  We
    should not be losing any business that we are made aware of,
    particularily if it's a Digital installed account and at best needs a
    visit to dicuss upgrading a system.  That story awhile back about the
    medical clinic makes me sick and I've been selling for this outfit for
    11 years.
    
    Anyway, there are a whole host of people in the field who can qualify
    and refer business to the best and proper selling channel, whether that
    is direct, through a distributor, master reseller or VAR.  At a minimum
    the telesales center should be able to handle this type of situation. 
    I will find the memo that came out on that and post it here.
    
    Maverick

    It seems that with a Zip Code and the questions, "What would you like
    to do with the computing system?" even a service bureau could give the
    customer a local contact. [Used by the appliance manufactures to tell
    end users about local sales outlets.]
    
    All someone needs to do is design the database.
    
    Howard
    (BTW_ I'm told we do use a service bureau for some sales/info leads)
    

    >Hey Greyhawk, this sounds like a business opportunity to me.  I mean
    >think of the leads we could get routed to a company who could go out
    >and address the follow-up on various leads it receives.

Yes, why not because we are to slow...an example ?

From:   NAME: DECLEAD @####
        FUNC: SALES
        TEL: 760#####

To:     me_a_motivated_soft_supp_engineer_generating_leads....

Lead Nr. ########

 1.7.94 Lead Descr.: Customer would like to get an update service contract
                     for the following software.....
 4.7.94            : Passed to S-admin
                     Status H(old), Duedate 8.8.94 = date of next reminder
 2.9.94            : (s-name-1 here) don't work for DEC anymore we try to
                     reach (s-name-2 here).
                     Status H(old), Duedate 19.9.94 = date of next reminder
 2.9.94            : Mail from (s-name-2 here) "I think (s-name-3 here) can
                     help. Status S(ent) to (s-name-3 here)
 3.9.94            : "Hi (s-name-3 here) I hope you're able to deal with this
                     "old" lead !"
26.9.94            : Mail from (s-name-4 here) "I got this lead now and sent
                     an offer to the customer"

Comment from me_never_generating_a_lead_anymore: ""WHAT EFFORT !!!!  :-(""

    I was always amazed that BP would talk about our revenue per
    employee being too low and therefore having to cut employees.
    It seemed to me the obvious solution to fixing the ratio was
    to increase revenue!  Now I'm beginning to understand that that
    is just too big of a problem to deal with in this company.  No
    wonder why this ship is so hard to turn around!

    
    .18 is an excellent idea...
    
    We have a good relationship with distributors, and when situations like
    .0 occur (often people walking in off the street and asking for info
    on DEC products), we always send then to our partners who do an
    excellent job on this type of sale.
    
    /ljj
    
    

	What's needed is a fundamental change in our culture. EVERYONE
	from Bob to the guy working on the dock should know where to 
	point a potential customer when they have cash on hand and ready
	to buy. It USED TO BE that we didn't have to know that stuff. 
	Customers would just put up with us until someone answered the
	phone. We cannot afford that anymore. (We haven't been able to
	afford that for years!!!!!)

	Bob, you NEED to make it easy for all of us to sell product. Even
	if it's only a $1500 PC. It adds up!! This is something upper 
	management has been talking about for over 2 years. I sure wish 
	something would happen. What's stopping you?

							mike

    
    Just a small point but an important one, I think...
    
    We DON'T need every $1.  We need every $1 only when we can make money
    on it.  It appears to me that we have decided that we will not close
    every deal, chase every PC, etc. as we can't make money when WE do the
    chasing.  That sounds to me like we still have too much overhead costs
    and our SG&A still needs work --- and we're working on that through mfg
    processes, etc.  
    
    We will not be fixed overnight, much to our dismay.  If we can't answer
    the phone or service the customer, that is our loss --- not the
    customer's.  The arrogance (for lack of a better word) of "Digital" that 
    comes across may or may not be intentional; however it does make our
    jobs on the front lines with the customers VERY DIFFICULT to defend.
    
    Even my customer who has spent $700M over 20 years is porting
    furiously to WNT in order to get away from our indecision and
    arrogance.  If it weren't for the sales team, they would have left us 2
    years ago instead of moving to AlphaAXP...   

    re .-1;
    
    $ set flame on
    
    NONSENSE!  
    
    $ set flame off
    
    If we've got the right channels, there is NO customer we
    should be turning away.  What we need is a cheap, effective way for
    ANYONE with a customer on the phone to re-direct that person to the
    proper selling channel.
    
    Just because the sale may not justify a direct sales contact, that
    doesn't mean we should, in effect, transfer the call to our
    competition.
    
    \dave

    No matter where in these United States I am located on any particular
    day or at any time of day, if I need to contact Thomas Cook travel and
    set up a flight or a reservation I can call their 1-800 number... I
    don't always get *MY* regular agent... and sometimes am talking to
    someone in another state, even, but I ALWAYS get quick response (I know
    there are strings in this conference where Thomas Cook bashing is going
    on).
    
    So WHY CAN'T DIGITAL have a similar number which will focus on channels
    or be able to direct the caller to the APPROPRIATE sales point?
    
    tony
    (who has nothing to do with sales/marketing, but is amazed at these
    stories and feels like yelling a bit!)
    

    Re: .27 (only profitable sales) & .28 (all sales could be profitable)
    
    I think you folks are actually in agreement.  At least I reckon you are
    both right.  We DO need every sale, but we need to 'do' every sale
    profitably.  I think that's the intent of the move towards the Indirect
    selling model (notice, no judgement on it's effectiveness).
    
    I too like the idea of some sort of toll-free number or E-Mail account
    to act as a clearing house for these sort of questions.
    
    Bill

    re:.30
    
    Very few customers call us for a "nickel's worth" of something. Most do
    not call with million dollar orders. They're somewhere in between.
    
    A personal experience:
    
    Seven years ago, before I came to Digital, I was a Digital customer. My
    company was a large enough customer where we had our own sales TEAM.
    
    I had finally convinced by boss to allow me to buy a software product I
    felt would increase my productivity and the productivity of others. The
    cost was about $5k. I had the P.O. and called the "Software Sales Rep".
    What I needed for the P.O. was the EXACT cost, a figure I didn't have.
    
    She told me, "I have no idea" and when I asked if she could look it up
    somewhere, she acted like it wasn't important. In other words, I NEVER
    got the product.
    
    Now, how many times a day does something like that happen? I won't
    believe anyone who replies with a "never" or "seldom". I talk to too
    many customers who've had (recently) similar experiences.
    
    800 sales reps. Let's say they ignore a $5k order each everyday because
    it's too much trouble. How much money does that mean Digital DOESN'T
    make a day? How about $4,000,000?!
    
    Now, can you tell me that Digital CAN'T make money from 4 million a
    DAY?
    

Our school system put out an RFQ under the uniform procurement bidding 
regulations for a $10K PC server.  Digital was the low bidder.  However, 
the school system could not find anyone at Digital to take the order.  
Since this was an acquisition under the uniform procurement process, 
they could not give it to another vendor.  After several weeks of trying
to give Digital an order based on a bid that Digital had submitted, the
school officials gave up and ordered an Apple server.  The general attitude
of the school officials is that they can't prevent Digital from bidding
on their future business, but they hope that Digital does NOT submit bids in 
the future.

Jim

    What about an internet home page for Digital....kinda like
    the dec direct one, but with usefull information, not fluff.
    and an order form that can be filled out and mailed to
    SOMEONE WHO WILL ANSWER/FILL the order.
    
    another alternative for the non-internet savvy is 1-800-DEC-LEED!
    
    All this stuff is no brainer materail.....we just need the
    drive and motivation to take the idea and GET IT DONE!
    
    You know, lead (LEED) follow, OR GET OUTA THE WAY!
    
    

    All kinds of stuff like that has been implemented at the CSC. We have
    (had?) a program where if we received sales leads from a customer while
    talking to them, we could electronically submit it and a sales person
    would get in touch with the customer.
    
    Not very effective. I remember an incident where the customer needed a
    solution for wide area network managment. I made some suggestions as to
    hardware and software. My estimate was that this could've been a 250k
    sale. This was a large company back east and they had the funds to do
    it, and wanted to look at implementing my suggestions.
    
    I submitted the lead. The customer NEVER heard from anyone and neither
    did I.
    
    Those kinds of things put a damper on your ever going to the trouble to
    submit a lead.
    
    The other part of it is compensation for the lead if it makes a sale.
    
    I proposed that employees that submitted leads that resulted in sales
    receivea 1% "commission" for that sale. Why? To encourage employees to
    submit the lead(the electronic method implemented was not very
    "friendly" and it took time to do all of this). The proposal included a
    cap on the total amount you could receive: $10,000 in one calendar
    year.
    
    The result was that they did implement the 1% fee, but capped the
    amount at $1000.00. Plus, EVERYONE got a cut - your manager, his/her
    manager, etc., even if they did nothing to help generate the sale!
    
    That put another damper on generating leads.
    
    I figured that if people in sales got bonuses for exceeding their
    yearly quotas ( I knew a salesperson that received a BMW one year for
    exceeding his sales quota) why shouldn't the rest of us also have the
    chance to benefit from helping to generate revenue for the company?
    
    
    

    I've heard over and over again about how we have too much sales force. 
    We're constantly compared to HP, etc.  Why then, if HP is so lean and
    mean, do their sales teams have the time and incentive to cold call
    Digital customers and our teams don't have the time to call on regular
    customers?  This isn't a slam at the sales people, but perhaps we have
    another management issue?
    
    
    charlie

   Re: Note 3409.35 by WRAFLC::GILLEY "Cheer up Christian, you could be dead tomorrow."
   

�    I've heard over and over again about how we have too much sales force. 
�    We're constantly compared to HP, etc.  Why then, if HP is so lean and
�    mean, do their sales teams have the time and incentive to cold call
�    Digital customers and our teams don't have the time to call on regular
�    customers?  This isn't a slam at the sales people, but perhaps we have
�    another management issue?
    

   I'm in DC, not sales.  Here is one thing I have observed that keeps sales
   reps from doing sales.
   
   
   Internal systems don't work.
   
   I work with one rep that has sold around $2M in hardware and services
   this year.  All right! Great!  Way to go!  Do some more!
   
   Unlikely he will sell anything else soon.  Seems Digital's systems
   only now about $37K of it.  He will now be expending his time:
   
   	A) Making sure his boss knows he's been selling stuff
   	B) Making sure the people who make TFSO decisions know
   	   he's selling stuff
   	C) Making sure that his commission checks come in a timely 
   	   fashion
   	D) Calling his creditors telling them he'll pay them as soon as
   	   Digital gets around to paying him
   
   Unfortunately, this rep has a nice talent of finding DC business at
   his customers' sites.  I was counting on him to keep me busy this
   comming quarter.  I'm not to sure he'll have time now.
   
   
   

    Steve,
    
     I agree - I was talking to a whiz-kid the other day - Sales Support
    Consultant I.   His boss volunteered to rewrite SBS with his Sales
    Support staff!  I say, go for it.

    
    Catching up...
    
    From the basenote or so - another true car story - a young kid went
    into a car dealership (believe it was a Cadillac) and wanted to see the
    top of the line, but the sales rep wouldn't talk with him.  However the
    janitor - an elderly fellow - did show him the car.
    
    The kid paid cash for the car, and told the owner that the commission 
    should go to the janitor.   Then he bought an identical car for the
    janitor and paid cash for that one as well.
    
    The kid was Elvis Presley.
    
    Cindy