Conference 7.286::digital

re: .0


Some asked Mr Palmer in his DVN why anyone would be motivated to stay at
DIgital.  His response was basically "for the challenge of being part of
the greatest company around ever" (that is NOT a directy quote...).  He
then went on to say "You can always leave if you want".  I certainly did
not expect to hear the 'love it or leave it' philosophy from him, but
that is certainly the way it came across to me.

    No..... Mr. Palmer said " a chance to be part of the greatest
    TURNAROUND ever"

    I want to stay too. I like what I'm doing, I like the environment I've
    got (I've just 'found' the internet!), I like the people I work with,
    and I like the customers I meet.
    
    OK - money isn't great, but I just turned down an opportunity to nearly
    double my salary because there is MUCH more than just cash involved in
    a job/lifestyle that suits me.
    
    I've been in DEC 8+ years and I still think its OK.
    
    Alan
    
    [head in the clouds ? maybe - but he view from here is great]
    

    .
    Yes, your head is in the clouds.
    

    Greatest turnaround?  Lee Iacocca already did that with Chrysler...
    
    				-John

    I too want to stay.  This job is the only one I've ever had,out of
    many, where I look forward to the challenges of the day ahead(most 
    times).  I also miss DEC but times change and we should change with 
    it.  In 18 years I've been here change has been constant.  If we are
    to survive we must keep changing.
    
    (The view is nice in these clouds) %-)

    Re .2:
    
    > Mr. Palmer said " a chance to be part of the greatest TURNAROUND
    > ever"
    
    Maybe he'll go for the full 360 degrees.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

Some of us would like to stay part of Digital, but some management 
organizations are "planfully outsourcing" [most of] the individual 
contributors by transferring employment to a vendor company.
Said company will then vend their employee services back to 
Digital, what with having a knowledgable workforce regarding
Digital products.  And this to save money in the long run.
But maybe I have the reasoning not quite right.  What do I
know.  Oh, and I wonder how long the run is.

Mark
Writer Commodity (WC) #196796

    Hey, I hear some of the doom, and some of the gloom, but...
    YA BETTER MAKE ROOM!
    
    I plan on staying here because:
    	I like my co-workers
    	I like my clients
    	I still think Digital is a challenging professional environment in
    		which the BEST get rewarded (and the REST...)
    BUT most of all I'm staying 'cuz
    	I THINK THE FUTURE LOOKS GREAT!
    
    Can HP deliver 64 bit UNIX to my client today? IBM? Sun? Well who then?
    Can Compaq REALLY deliver enterprise systems running SCO???
    Does ANYONE have what OpenVMS delivers in terms of
    	price/performance/"robustness"
    
    IF the co gets around to a reasonable comp plan for sales, which I
    believe it will, I just plain don't see a reason to "rush for the exit"
    Of course, that there comp plan is a big IF. So's sorting out much of
    the issues around how channels should leverage low cost of sales in the
    top 1000 EU accounts. But, FWIW, I think the world (alright, the world
    between the atlantic and pacific, or the "world" 'tween Earth and
    Jupiter for this who know me :-) is responding pretty well to our
    messages.
    
    To each his/her own, but for now...
    
    I'm too busy sellin...
    
    SteveS

I have been with Digital for a little over four years.  I have 
only seen the bad financial times. For me there are many 
reasons to stay, some big and some small. The good reasons 
far out weigh the bad.

For me, a very important reason to stay is the ability for me 
to work flexible hours.

Monday and Tuesday every week, I care for my two small 
children, a boy 1.25 years old, and a girl  3 years old.  My 
wife works (8am - 5pm) while I mind the kids. When she 
comes home, I go to work. I have been doing this for three 
years now.

I honestly believe that nothing could replace what I have 
gained by spending the additional time with my kids. This is 
especially true because they are so young. When it is all 
over, long after I have forgotten about Digital, the time 
spent with my kids is what I will remember most.

I feel very fortunate that I have a position that enables me 
to work flex time and I have managers who support my 
strange schedule.

Flex time is an important, sometimes overlooked benefit. In 
my group there are many women who take advantage of 
flex time. I am the only male. I have even earned the nick 
name "Mr. Mom" by some of my co-workers.

John.

>    Greatest turnaround?  Lee Iacocca already did that with Chrysler...

Maybe the greatest turn-around not requiring a federal bail-out... ?

    re: .-1  Give it time....

How did I know that was coming...

RE: .1,

>He then went on to say "You can always leave if you want".  I certainly did
>not expect to hear the 'love it or leave it' philosophy from him, but
>that is certainly the way it came across to me.
>

I didn't interpret BP's words that way.  It came across to me that it may be
easy for employees to feel like leaving now, but why not think about it first,
and stick it through a little longer. And possibly be part of the greatest
opportunity/crisis/turnaround in history.

One can always leave later if the turnaround isn't the greatest.  Hence his
remark.

Allen

>
>    No..... Mr. Palmer said " a chance to be part of the greatest
>    TURNAROUND ever"

Yes, I heard that too... My typing fingers refused to enter it but told
my brain it did anyway. :-)

>I didn't interpret BP's words that way.  It came across to me that it may be
>easy for employees to feel like leaving now, but why not think about it first,

Be that as it may, he did appear to side step the question... What should
be motivating to people to stay.  "Part of a Turnaround" is pretty lame
a reason by itself (without more detail as to HOW that will be done).  As it
stands, it is a shining example of a 'glittering generality'.

    
Digital's strategy is based on the following core value proposition:
"Digital has the ability--directly and through partners--to implement 
and support networked platforms and applications in heterogeneous 
environments more quickly and more cost effectivly than anyone else".
Bob Palmer - July 14, 1994
Digital paystub - September 22, 1994
    
    
    Can he prove it?  If so, I think it's worth staying, cause it could be
    fun.  As long as there is a Digital, New Hampshire.
    
    bill

    I want to stay, but it's too late.  Tomorrow's my last day.  I came
    here initially as a contractor in '85.  I was SWSNOD::RPGDOC then, but 
    in '87 I became what some people refer to as a "permanent" employee. 
    As far as I was concerned, it WAS my last job.  I would never leave
    this place.  But now I've been tapped.  They say I'm "too technical". 
    Now that management has become IDC's core skill, my kind of services
    can be hired off the meat rack down the corner.  I suppose there's an
    element of truth to that, but the cynic in me imagines more than a
    modicum of self preservation in this outsourcing plan.  For Digital's
    sake, I hope that is not the case, for after you've cut the limbs, the
    muscle, the brains and the sinew, the only thing you can do with the
    remaining anatomy is sit on it.
    

I have been here for 15+ years.  I joined right after we had just introduced
the VAX-11/780, and remember the joy of working on VAX/VMS V1.0 (and it was
a joy, compared to KCL on the Control Data Cyber system).

I have seen the good times, the bad times, the times we made Wall Street
look like the short-sighted fools they are, and the times that we made 
some really short-sighted foolish decision ourselves.

I am here until they fire me.  People may interpret BP's comment about "being
part of the greatest turnaround in US history" any way they want: to me it
says that BP recognizes that Digital has been written off by the experts 
multiple times in the past, and has always come back.  And the reasons that
the experts gave then were as valid as the ones they give now.  But Digital
still came back.  

And I believe, like a few others here, that:

  - we have the best technology we have ever had in our history
  - our marketing people have finally realized that actually telling 
    large numbers of people about our products is at least a possibility
    and not something shameful that they are not allowed to do
  - people who have demonstrated competence, drive, dedication, ideas, and
    common sense are now at the highest levels of the company, and are taking
    substantive actions (as opposed to changing the color of the logo).

Sure there are still problems: really good people are leaving, many people
who are left are dispirited, there are still too many bozos who are totally
out for themselves and (at best) don't care about Digital or the people
around them, etc., etc.  Go to any sequence in this notes file to see a
woeful litany of the problems.

But we have always had problems, and we have always overcome them.  I believe
we will do it again, and I for one and planning on being around to take my
small amount of pride in my small contribution toward that turnaround.

And as for the doomsayers, who couldn't wait to trash this notes string as you
quickly trash everything else around here: I honestly don't understand how 
you can stand to come into work every day if you feel the way you sound based 
on your notes.  If I couldn't feel good about where I spend 8-10 hours/day, 
5-6 days/week, I would go nuts (and I have had a job which wore me down with
depression and stress, and is why I am now at this job).  Choosing to feel
good about where I work is a conscious decision, and I cannot recommend it
highly enough.

-- Ken Moreau

    Re: .19-
    
  >- we have the best technology we have ever had in our history
    
    	Hardware wise yes: Gigaswitch, 2100 server, DEChub 900 Multiswitch.
    
    	Digital's core competencies are first-class high performance h/w
    and (dwindling) professionals that can integrate this into real world
    solutions IMHO.
    
    	I'd say our forte is firmware categorically- we build the best
    performing boxes in the world. The savvy customers know this and have
    visions that sustain interest in Digital despite bad/no press.
    
    	My take is that OpenVMS and h/w are where we lead the pack. OpenVMS
    may be deemed proprietary, but name what you can't do with a VAX/ALPHA
    system- I'm awed by the power of these platforms in day to day use. I
    never dreamed 10 years ago of the impact EASYnet et all would have on
    my life at Digital. 
    
    	We operate one of the most complex internetworks in existance
    without batting an eye. Sure, there are problems but the gain outweighs
    the pain (again IMHO).
    
    Phil

    I've been here since 1980 when I started working on VAX DBMS.  Back
    then we built software to support hardware.  The only justification I
    can remember for why we got into the database business was the Ingress
    and Oracle didn't provide our customers industry strength databases
    that we could use to bid against IBM.  
    
    Now we are in the mid 90's and once again we are building software to
    support the hardware, only the kind of software we need  has changed. 
    To me the work is still challenging (I'm in mobile software).  
    
    I want to stay because:
    
    	1.  The work is challenging and leading edge.
    	2.  The environment fits my life style (flexable hours and 
    		lots of kids, also 4 weeks of vacation a year).
    
    I would like to see this be a better company to work for (we don't make
    anyone's top 100 list any longer), but that will only come with better
    financial times.  My request of the company is to give me challenging
    work that builds my skills and keeps my interest (and makes me
    marketable), along with an environment that allows me to continue to
    lead life style that balances family and work.  As long as the company
    can provide this I want to stay.

    
.18>           ...But now I've been tapped.  They say I'm "too technical". 
.18> Now that management has become IDC's core skill, my kind of services
.18> can be hired off the meat rack down the corner...
    
    If you intend to display yourself on the meat rack down at the corner,
    just don't tell your new employer you're "too technical" -- not if you
    want to contract to DEC. You see, if you do that, your employer will
    charge a higher contract fee for your services than they would for a
    non-technical writer. IDC, however, will be loathe to mention technical
    requirements in their "Statement of Work for Outsourcing..." paperwork,
    because they know they'll get hit with a higher fee. So you see, the
    same people who declared your technical expertise a commodity item may
    not hire you because your technical expertise is just too darned
    expensive.
    
    ----------------------
    
    I want to stay at DEC because:
    
     o  I still see a lot of opportunities for advancement.
    
     o  I remember how good it felt to work in a company that believed
        fervently in doing the right thing.
    
     o  I have too much of me invested in this company to walk away simply
        because the relationship is currently dysfuncional.
    

First of all let me say that I'm going to stick it out - and it's not because 
I can't get a job somewhere else. I have worked for Nixdorf, Rank Xerox, Ford 
of Europe, ICL and Mainzena (CPC). At Mainzena I was in charge of data 
processing for three factories and first met up with PDP-11/70s and RSTS/E. 
After a couple of years I wanted to join the company that made these computers 
and operating systems. 
I started with Digital in 1984 when Germany had 1600 employees and VMS V3.7 
was the hit with most of the customers. I've been on-site at large accounts 
such as BMW and Siemens for periods of up to 2� years. 
At the companies mentioned above I've witnessed chair-leg sawing, back 
stabbing, high divorce rates, alcoholism, admittances to mental homes and 
even suicides. 
Digital still has a culture. I believe the managers responsible for some of 
our dilemas will get their "come uppance" very shortly. I too enjoyed the mad 
spending sprees in the eighties. At one time I had my own car at home in the 
garage, my company lease car in a parking lot in Munich airport and was 
driving around California in an Avis rented car with an unlimited expense 
account. Those times are gone. 
In a marriage ceremony you promise "for better or for worse". I'm not saying 
we have to feel obligated to the company the way we feel obliged to stick to 
our wives or husbands when they're in hospital. But I still feel a certain 
pride in being with Digital Equipment Corporation and am doing my best to 
answer my customer's questions such as: "The second world war only lasted 6 
years Mr. Jones. How long is it going to take Digital?" (original quote 
translated from German made by Herr Falko Lameter, Head of IT, Kaeser 
Kompressoren in Coburg, Germany - the biggest OSF/1 productive SAP R/3 
installation and reference site in Germany).
By the way, the whole of Bob Palmer's speech in Sweden plus the Q&A session 
are now in VTX. I found it interested reading.

Mitch

    
    I'll mark my 23rd anniversary with this company next month.  When I
    started there were no video terminals, just teletypes, and punched
    cards and paper tape were a way of life.  Master file updates were
    done magtape to magtape, and no one had a terminal in his/her office.
    A good quarter back then saw us bring in $140M in revenue.  We had no
    sales force or marketing; customers used to call us and ask us to
    sell them a computer.  To see what we have and produce now in nothing 
    short of incredible!  Twenty three years ago, when this company was 
    "DEC", I couldn't wait to get to work; it was that exciting.  Now 
    that we are "Digital" and most of our bennies have dried up, I still 
    can't wait to get to work.  I been through the "automatic" 40% growth
    years and through the losses of the past several years.  I've seen
    pay freezes several times before this current one.  BP, IMO, has done
    an unbelievable job in getting this company heading back toward the
    black.  Gone are the PDP10s and 20s, the LINK8s, etc....here are the
    DECservers, PCs, OpenVMS, OSF/1 and the like.  Where internal company
    communications used to be accomplished by physical interoffice mail,
    we now take for granted a network which allows me to send a message
    and get a reply from Singapore in a matter of minutes.  I've witnessed
    the revolution, and I'm still excited to be involved with it.  And
    after 23 years, I still want to be here, doing my part.
    
    Lou
    

    I'm not sure if this is quite what the author of .0 wanted, but it's
    the last day of my contract, and I feel like I need to say something.  
    
    I think Digital's going to turn around.  
    
    I think the people who choose to stay and are chosen to stay will find
    a vital and rewarding career ahead of them.  I think there's a lot of
    good stuff going on.  
    
    I think it's sad the way a great deal of it has been mismanaged and
    misrepresented.  I think it's sad the way the people who are
    implementing the turnaround plans are often so contemputous of the
    people who have to do the work.  I think it's tragic that they think
    some of the written communications they've distributed actually *say*
    something, but perhaps that merely reflects the decline of English,
    both British and American.  
    
    The reasons I left DEC were primarily personal.  I like contracting. 
    I'm glad I had this contract.  The people here are great, as always. 
    I've had fun, learned a lot, feel like I've contributed something. 
    I'll come back if I get another opportunity to apply my skills here. 
    Unfortunately, I don't think that's likely.  I don't see a lot of
    future at Digital for technical writers of any stripe, or for
    applications-level software, and that makes two strikes.  
    
    I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.  We've made our
    corporate decisions, and in many cases that's going to change people's
    plans.  Some people are going to leave.  I think it's a mistake to read
    all departures as criticisms of Digital.  I know mine isn't.  I'm glad
    I was here, I'm glad I'm going, and I hope I get to work with some of
    you again.  That's all.
    
    --bonnie

    
    A year ago August I came to Digital as a contractor, the first time I
    ever accepted an on-site employee-style arrangement.  I've been
    self-employed for 14 years, and folks, this is the first organization
    I've ever seen that treats its employees like adults (i.e., you are
    not evaluated by the amount of time your b*tt is warming the chair in
    your cubicle).  In our group, managers assume that we're responsible
    and will get the job done.  Guess what: we do.  
    
    I am pleased to be part of what is really an industry legend.  On the
    other hand, I see Digital continuing to make lots of serious mistakes,
    and I still fail to see much management understanding or direction.
    From cold-blooded point of view, employee layoffs are an
    opportunity for contractors.  On the other hand, "real" employees with 
    years of experience are an irreplaceable resource.  The more of you
    that are gone, the more us contractors go wandering in the dark, and
    the more time is wasted searching for resources and information that is
    simply not easily available.  At some point, Digital will find that the
    cost-to-gain ratio of contractor productive time will drop
    precipitously, because we can only work productively in concert with
    internal experts (a vanishing species).
    
    I did some work for Wang, during its darkest hours; I'm glad it
    survived, but on the other hand, what's left is not Wang as we knew it.
    I'd like to stay here to see how things turn out; I only 
    hope that Digital doesn't follow the same road.
    

	Could anyone have imagined this topic 6 months ago?

							mike

    
    	Oh, boy - I don't even know where to start. Both Digital and I
    have our "good" days and our "bad" days. Just being in sales
    (regardless of the company) is like that.
    
    	I came to DEC 9 years ago because they made the best computers
    period. They were, and still are, bricks. If you fancy yourself a top
    salesperson, the quality of the product you represent is the single
    most important tool in your bag. It is your ace of spades.
    
    	Digital still makes bricks and they are still the best computers
    period. And I'll stay until they aren't. I believe that I will never
    see that day. So....
    
    	Life is what YOU make it, folks. We are all human, we are all
    subject to incredible stupidity, and to incredible intelligence.
    We spend most of our lives living the in-between. Just have fun, enjoy
    what you do and who you are. If you aren't, then the only one who can
    fix that is you. DO IT.
    
    	Hell, if living was so complicated the human race would have died
    out eons ago. Like life, Digital will go on, and on, and on - as long
    as we strive to make the best, we will always have a marketplace of
    people who insist on buying only the best. Ain't it grand?
    
    		the Greyhawk

	Hay! What this note string needs to introduce is a Theme Song.

	What about Sinatra singing 'Ya gota bel-ieve, Ya gota bel-ieve..."

	Ok, how about "I love you truly, tru-ly DEC, ahh err Digital..."

	I know, 'God Bless Digital', YEAH!  Sing with me!

		GOD BLESS DIGITAL, COMPANY THAT I LUV
		Stand beside her, and guide her
		thru the night, with the light from MKO.

	com'on, stand up and sing fellow digits!
		
		Thru the hallways, to the stairways,
		past the nay-sayers, and above.

		GOD BLESS DIGITAL, the COMPANY that I LUV.

				:)

	I sure wish notes was MPC-3 compliant
	Mike M
    

    Mike,
    
      I don't know how well you can sing. We may not want MPC-3 compliance.

    
     I'll take Mike out and shoot him for us, since I still work for
    DC, it'll cost you 130 per hour, have to find him though. Plus I
    need to alert my oppertunity manager, my engagement manager, and my
    resource manager. I'll need some sort of weapon. Since my PSC does
    not contain the desired resource, I'll have to escalate via 911.
    
     Perhaps I can even call the CSC, maybe a local office referal? Hmmm,
    to many cross charges here. On second thought, I don't want this
    business, maybe I'll sub-contract.
    
    -Enjoy.
    
    Mike Murray, I'd never thought I'd see ya singin... you have truely
    flipped.
    
    -Mike Z.
    Digital Consulting

    
    	Mike -
    
    		If all else fails, you can get a job writing parodies for
    Weird Al Yankovich, or for the new Digital song book. Key of C, folks,
    one more time, from the top.....
    
    		the Greyhawk
    

��    		If all else fails, you can get a job writing parodies for
��    Weird Al Yankovich, or for the new Digital song book. Key of C, folks,
��    one more time, from the top.....

    I belive this is on the one-glove album:

    	Beat it, just beat it.

    	If you're not a vp, just beat it.
    	
    	I don't care if you're young or old, just beat it.

    	If you're in the field, just beat it.

    	If you're in the mill, just beat it.

    	Beat it, just beat it.

    	Beat it, Beat it, Beat it, Beat it, Beat it...

If you're a POD (planfully outsourced Digit) on the vendor list in SES,
you don't have a choice to stay at Digital.  You "go or don't play."

    Peter,
    
    Always good to hear another point of view.
    
    We have the best OS in the business, OpenVMS, despite many folks in the
    field saying different (they don't know any better, and are the prime
    reason we are in trouble).
    
    We have the best systems, bar none!! No argument. 
    
    We have leading s/w products.
    
    We still have the industry's leading database (rdb - not too late to
    change your mind Bob!)
    
    We have excellent excellent manufacturing, great PC's, great
    documentation. I have seen advertising on airplane magazines!
    Hallelulliah! I mean, this is happening. It is real.
    
    So what is the problem ?
    
    The people folks...we have some leftovers who are dragging us down. We
    will survive. We will win. We damn well are the best and don't forget
    it. If you are still here, give yerself a  pat on the back...and get to
    work. 
    
    We are the best. HP are fraudulent, and IBM are waiting to be kicked
    aside once the golf membership money runs out. C'mon, with the best
    products, how can you lose ? Don't let anyone get in your way...tell
    Bob Palmer if anyone dares get in your way. He listens. He acts. He's
    trying every day. So should we.
    
    I have a better reason to stay...it arrives every two weeks in my bank
    account. My wife and kids are happy and thankful. We are even every two
    weeks, so work hard to ensure the next one was earned as well. It is
    that easy. If you go down, do so with your boots on (Errol Flynn as
    General Custer in "They died with their boots on"). 
    
    So quit yappin and whinin and get on with it.
    
    And Peter, 
    
    well said mate. thanks,
    
    Paul

    *I* plan to stay.  And it's not because I have no choice.  I love
    designing graphics chips that work with the worlds best and fastest
    CPU architecture - Alpha.  I love working with the great folks in my
    team.  I love working with my immediate manager, who is a genius at
    matching his people with tasks that show off their strengths and
    strenghten their weaknesses.  I like my salary, too, though I could
    probably do better elsewhere.  I like working with the best computer 
    network in the world.  I like having an office in the Mill -- oops!
    I like the stability of living in the same place and working with
    mostly the same people for the long term.
    
    One of the down sides of working here, though, is that those who
    complain are far too often ignored and called "whiners".  It's not
    that simple, folks!  An awful lot of the "whining" has turned out to
    be right on the money.  People used to whine that we couldn't sell
    PCs -- well, we can sell them now, because we fixed most of the things
    people were whining about!  
    
    People who think (or at least say) that Digital cannot succeed should
    be encouraged to leave, true.  But people who "whine" about problems
    are usually people who *want* Digital to win but who cannot find anyone
    to pay attention to the problems that they feel are stopping us.  So
    it's worthwhile to pay attention to the "whiners".  If more attention
    was paid to complaints of problems, and if there was more communication
    about what is going on and why (*), there would be less whining.  At 
    least, that's how it's worked out for me.  The high level of communcation
    within my local management is yet another reason why I like it here.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry
    
    (*) Paying attention to complaints doesn't necessarily mean accepting
    that they are valid.  It *does* mean explaining why we aren't doing
    things differently.  Sometimes those in charge think the current 
    strategy is better -- in that case reasons should be given.
    Other times the way things are is the best available alternative.  
    In that case, I think it helps to state it -- this validates the 
    complaint and can help motivate the complainer to work toward making 
    better alternatives available.  Pretending that everying is "fine fine" 
    only causes frustration.  LS

    re -.1
    
    This was entered at 7:51 am.  God, I'm glad I'm not across the coffee
    table! :^]  Thomas, are taking over Goddard's role?  Will you be moving
    on to the DEC std 131313 and Spork issue?
    
    								Tex

    RE: .37
    
    Is that stuff available across the counter, or what?
    
    Laurie.

    Re .37
    
    Do you have a modified version of ELIZA that types these replies in for
    you?

    
        Re  .37
    
        Fine, but what about the topic question:  "Do you want to 
        stay at Digital?"
    				:-)  :-)
    
        Peter
    

	RE .42

	So how does this "loop" work exactly, and where can 
I get my own ??

    
   > Larry Seiler has been very Active in the DCU Notesfile in a Moral, Balanced
   > Way, and so he is already locked into the Uncontrollable Success Loop so
    
    Ehh, Larry, what exactly does it feel like to be locked into an 
    Uncontrollable Success Loop?
    
    Inquiring Minds etc

        Re .42
    >>* I * want to stay at Digital, in my current spot, as long as they don't
    >>actively drive me out.

    Thomas, I can tell that this isn't from your program.  Still, it seems
    a little dramatic.  "ACTIVELY DRIVE ME OUT."  Come on Thomas, even you
    aren't that paranoid, or are you?

    Jim Morton
    
    

    You know, I, too, was reminded of Phaedrus...

.44>  Ehh, Larry, what exactly does it feel like to be locked into an 
.44>  Uncontrollable Success Loop?

Actually, I'm feeling pretty good right now.  Though as my wife points
out, being active in a "moral balanced way" is a lot like painting a
buslleye on your back!  I have no idea what Thomas Newton means about
Success Loops, nor have I got a clue about Phaedrus.  I just act on my
religious and personal convictions and look for people who value that.
And those who don't.  Thanks, Thomas, for your kind words about me in .37.

.45>  "ACTIVELY DRIVE ME OUT."  Come on Thomas, even you
.45>  aren't that paranoid, or are you?

I was once informed by someone a step below the VP level that a certain
senior manager was trying to find a way to drive me out.  It was a
plausible story, since I had filed ethics charges against him -- and
the person who told me lost his/her position shortly after.  Since that
experience, I'm not as quick to dismiss fears of retribution as
paranoia.  The paranoid usually do have someone out to get them!

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    
    How do I feel?  See note 3219
    
    "t"
    
    
    

Assuming a vote in the affirmative for each note, and we know this not to be
so for this note string, why are there only 49 replies to "I want to stay
at Digital?"

Hmmm...

Is it true that all those employees that DON'T have
a reply in the "I want to stay" note will be
fired in the next round of downsizing?

    I don't know but if I have some of what T. N. is smoking, I won't care
    
    Alan

I had the good fortune to be at a presentation by the Corporate Strategy Group 
(I bet you didn't even know we *had* a corporate strategy).  The presentation, 
and subsequent events, demonstrated to me the following points:

1) The SLT does in fact have a clue, in fact their perception of the situation
   matches the perception held by the grunts in the field (like me) quite well

2) There is a sound plan grounded in reality for getting us out of this mess
   and making us profitable again

3) The actions taken in the last few months (Rdb, disk and heads, the new
   advertising campaign, etc) are part of that plan, and make a lot of sense 
   when you understand the plan

4) The people at the top (Christ and Pesatori) have the will and authority
   to implement the plan, and won't resort to another bird-cage reorganization

5) The Q1 results, while not the best possible, represent growth for the
   first time in a very long time

Ok, your next question is "What's he smoking and will he share?".  To prove
to myself that I hadn't been taken in by a fancy line, I presented the
information to a group of Sales Reps.  These people have had enough of the
fancy promises, and are probably as cynical and resistant to hype as any
of us.

They reacted extremely positively to the information.  Multiple people came
up to me later and agreed that the first 4 points are true (I did the talk
before the Q1 numbers came out, so I can't speak for their feelings on point
# 5).  And if *these* people agree, then this is absolutely not hype.

I have been encouraging everyone I have talked to to get this information
out as widely as possible.  I am doing my part by presenting in my little
world, and have encouraged the author of the talk to do something like a DVN
to get this information out to both employees (who need help with morale) 
and customers (who have listened to a few too many Gartner Group reports
saying that Digital won't last much longer).

-- Ken Moreau

    First, I believe in Digital, whatever that means!
    
    I think were all tired of hearing TALK!
    We want to SEE RESULTS and ACTION!
    
    I will regain faith when we regain PROFITABILITY!
    When 'others', besides Digital start saying GOOD/GREAT things about Digital.
    
    LYMA - Less Yack, more ACT
    
    my $.02

    re -.1 "and the band plays on..."
    
    The Titanic reference here is appropo.  My concern is less that I want to 
    stay within Digital, more whether Digital will stay around me. :^]
    
    Apple, Compaq, IBM, 'bout everyone and their dog are posting record
    earnings!  I, too, will regain faith when we're PROFITABLE!
    
    					dos centavos de Tex

    Re: Note 3405.52 by ODIXIE::MOREAU
    
�Ok, your next question is "What's he smoking and will he share?".  To prove
�to myself that I hadn't been taken in by a fancy line, I presented the
�information to a group of Sales Reps.
    
�I have been encouraging everyone I have talked to to get this information
�out as widely as possible.  I am doing my part by presenting in my little
�world,
    
    Ken, would it be possible to share this "information" here? Thanks.
    
    	BD�

RE: .-1 <Ken, would it be possible to share this "information" here? Thanks.>
    
I am in contact with the author of the presentation in order to make that
happen.  It would be inappropriate for me to post it here without permission.

Further, the talk itself is 75 dense slides.  Most of it is preparatory info,
making sure that we are all using the same words to mean the same thing.  The
meat of the talk is contained on a single slide, but that slide needs a fair
amount of background material to make sense.

-- Ken Moreau

Re: .55

>                         -< Ken, you've got the floor >-
<stuff deleted>
>
>    Ken, would it be possible to share this "information" here? Thanks.

    Seconded.

Re: .52

>1) The SLT does in fact have a clue, in fact their perception of the situation
>   matches the perception held by the grunts in the field (like me) quite well
>

    Hmmm ... could have fooled me!  Why are they keeping their clue such a
    secret?  In light of the RENEW and Q3/Q4 FY94 results, I'd think they'd
    be doing everything to advertise it.

>2) There is a sound plan grounded in reality for getting us out of this mess
>   and making us profitable again
>

    SO, WHAT'S THE PLAN?!?!?!?!? (yes, I'm YELLING!)

>3) The actions taken in the last few months (Rdb, disk and heads, the new
>   advertising campaign, etc) are part of that plan, and make a lot of sense 
>   when you understand the plan
>

    Then for Christ's sake (Jesus', not Charlie's) somebody TELL US WHAT THE
    PLAN IS!  I've been hearing about the "PLAN" for months.  I've never heard
    from anyone in any way, shape, or form what the "PLAN" is, just what a
    wonderful plan it is.  My personal observation and belief is that the SLT's
    "PLAN" is:

      o Produce and sell Alpha/AXP chips and systems.

      o Put everthing else up for sale but vehemently(sp?) deny that its on
        the block.

      o If a sale succeeds, do alot of hand waving about how good the sale is
        for Digital and that it wasn't one of our core competencies anyway (RDB
        and Quantum).

      o If a sale falls through, reorganize and reiterate that it was never up
        for sale anyway (DC).

      o Continue TFSOing and selling off headcount (SES/IDC) until the
        revenue/employee figure increases.

      o Periodically congratulate one another on how well the "PLAN" is going.
        Use the opportunity to snag a pay raise and/or a bonus while preaching
        that we're all in this together.

    Then again, maybe the SLT has been listening to Thomas Newton ...

>4) The people at the top (Christ and Pesatori) have the will and authority
>   to implement the plan, and won't resort to another bird-cage reorganization
>
>5) The Q1 results, while not the best possible, represent growth for the
>   first time in a very long time

    I'd like to be optimistic about both of these, but ...  Time will hopefully
    prove me wrong.

    Bob "What's the PLAN?" Lyon

      Tell us the plan. If it's that good, it can stand public exposure. If
    it can't stand public exposure, then it is either 1)a hatchet job or
    2)pure hype (even sales types can get taken in sometimes), or 3)some
    combination of the two. If I don't hear WHAT the plan is, (as opposed to
    how GOOD it is) then I shall assume that it is the last.
    
    Ken

    I saw the analysis and the plan at the same meeting that Ken did.
    There is no way to do it justice in a Vax Notes reply.  There was
    a presentation made and perhaps Ken can get permission to make a
    PostScript or Powerpoint file available.  However, the
    presentation had as much added content from the presenter as
    appears in the slides and it would be best that you get the whole
    production - which is why the OpenVMS Partners were very vocal in
    their suggestion that the presentation be done as a DVN.

    btw: I was completely astounded.  This was the first evidence that
    I had seen in over seventeen years that someone took a genuine
    professional approach to our business and our marketplace and used
    the information to put together a real business plan.

	Mike

Can you say whether the plan mainly addressed new or emerging markets versus
our existing computer + DECnet markets?  For instance, in the case of the
Alpha chip, is the plan to push it to OEMs building new types of intelligent
devices (somewhat like how PDP-11s were sold for a while) rather than having
us offer it only in our traditional computers?

Is there a breakdown of how much of our business is projected to come from
what products/channels/market segments/etc.?
							- paul

>    btw: I was completely astounded.   
>    There is no way to do it justice in a Vax Notes reply. 

Oh yeah. If it's that complicated I have no wonder that the emperior might
be cold today... his clothes are a bit insubstantial...

Does this "plan" we've been hearing about really require soooo much song 
and dance around it? Pardon my cynicism, but my bozon meter just got pegged.

[bozons are the sub atomic particles emitted by useless management and 
individual non-contriubutors and their "output"]

	Thanks,
		-Stephanie

    GREAT one Stephanie!
    
    

RE: .58

>      Tell us the plan. If it's that good, it can stand public exposure. If
>    it can't stand public exposure, then it is either 1)a hatchet job or
>    2)pure hype (even sales types can get taken in sometimes), or 3)some
>    combination of the two. If I don't hear WHAT the plan is, (as opposed to
>    how GOOD it is) then I shall assume that it is the last.
    
As far as I know, there is no thought to keeping this plan a secret.  The
presentation was made in a public (Digital only) forum, and I have gotten
permission to present the information to other Digital people in a lecture
format.  There has never been any reticence that I have seen about sharing
this information with any Digital employee.  So I believe your comment about
"can't stand public exposure" is invalid.  Keep in mind that the first time
this plan was brought up was in the context of trying to make it more public...

I say again, the *ONLY* reason I have not posted this already is because I
am not the author of the talk, and the moderators would (correctly) stomp
on any attempt that I made to post something here without the permission
of the author.

But right now I am working to try and condense down 75 dense slides into 
something that won't cause the Motif notes viewer to lose it's mind.  I have 
something about 200 lines long now, which has been sent to the author for 
their review.  When I get their approval, believe me, I will post it that
moment.  I am as anxious as you are to prove what I have said, and to get
other people to believe as strongly as I (and some others, thanks Mike)
that Digital's leadership is actually worthy of that title.

I appreciate your skepticism, and before I saw this talk I shared it.  But
this activity of mine is being done after hours (notice when this note is
being written), and so I will do it as quickly as I can.  But keep in mind
that this entire scenario is typical Digital: superb technical engineering
work totally negated by a complete lack of communication to the customers.

-- Ken Moreau

    The statement that at least as much content was added by
    the presenter as was in the original presentation is 
    probably true.
    
    But this applies to _every_ good presentation/presenter combination
    and yet we still release 100's of presentations onto the net without
    associated DVN's with good effect.
    
    My suggestion is to ask the author(s) to release the presentation
    onto the net. This medium is a very good one for asking follow up
    questions.  That _and_ your 200 line note will be better than either
    one or the other.

I tend to agree with those who are hesitant to post the "plan" here.
Look at the notes and responses in this conference.  It should be evident
to even the most casual reader that we're not very good at communicating
with integrity.

Why would a thoughtful person post something as important as a corporate
strategy here where it is likely be slammed, cynically distorted,
and miscommunicated to others?

If we want better information in this forum, I think we should start by
cleaning up our act.

- Peter

re .65

Peter,

I aggree with you completely.  The stupid employees in this company do not
deserve to know anything about the corporate strategy.  Management should
definitely keep it super secret.  Why, if management ever revealed the
strategy to the childish employees in this company, they'd probably just
make stupid remarks, like pointing out holes in the strategy.  And of
course, since employees have absolutely no value to the company, why should
they be told the strategy.  It's top management that does all the work
around here and as long as they know the strategy, that's all that matters.

 - Ken

Re: .65

>I tend to agree with those who are hesitant to post the "plan" here.
>Look at the notes and responses in this conference.  It should be evident
>to even the most casual reader that we're not very good at communicating
>with integrity.
>
>Why would a thoughtful person post something as important as a corporate
>strategy here where it is likely be slammed, cynically distorted,
>and miscommunicated to others?

Well I disagree.  I'll admit that at times the candor of this conference has
something to be desired *in my opinion*, I think its a generalization to say
"we're not very good at communicating with integrity".  I can name plenty of
participants here that I consider to communicate with the utmost of integrity
(if I understand your meaning, which I'm not sure I do), but they often don't
believe or agree with corporate stated positions, policies, and directions.
That doesn't make them whiners, complainers, cynics, or poor communicaters.
I've seen plenty of "official" communications posted here that I feel were alot
worse in terms of distortion and miscommunication.

>If we want better information in this forum, I think we should start by
>cleaning up our act.

I'm sorry, but while what you say does have some validity, it is not in itself
an excuse for not posting the "PLAN".

Bob Lyon 

    You're discussing a non-issue wrt the plan.  If (and hopefully
    when) permission to post the slides (30-60 PoscScript pages if I
    remember correctly) as required by P&P, then I'm sure a pointer
    will be posted.  I do not feel adequate to attempt a summarization
    - I understood it well when presented, but I write far better
    software than position statements, particularly when they are
    based on some else's expertise, experience and competence.

	Mike

I hope the plan is posted too, and it appears it will be.

But I also realize that ideas can be fragile at times,
and are not always easy to communicate through this medium.

Good communication is greatly facilitated by a spirit of good will.

- Peter

    
    	Definitely *Chill* folks, or your all going to be on Newton's
    designer whatever.
    	Ken saw the same presentation I did from Lucia Quinn's CSD Strategy
    Team. It's OK. What it really is however, is a positioning statement
    with proof points (like we all can't name each and every one). While
    it looks great, corporate strategy it ain't.
    	Yes it is probably true that we are still doing a little
    "searching" for what we truly want to be when we grow up, but that's
    normal. We (hell, the whole industry..) is undergoing mid-life crisis.
    Technologies are being blended faster than Waring ever intended. Just
    look at the Sprint/TCI/Comcast/"space to be rented later" group and
    their announcement yesterday concerning cable/long distance/local
    access/"next neat technology of the week" grab bag of home services for
    the computer handicapped.
    	Dare any of you to figure it out. I'm a damn genius, and I can't.
    Every day's a surprise. Yes, we need stability; we need to get our
    pride back; we need leadership; we need/want lots of stuff; SO WHAT?
    
    	We have gone into evolutionary status. We most likely will not plan
    anything for a while. We will reorganize into functional organizations
    based on marketplace attributes, ie: Tony Craig's new group; Roseanne's
    Internet Team; PCs; C&P; Storage - pieces we know work together in
    terms of revenue/profit production. The rest is going to evolve. Kind
    of a business "Continential Shift" strategy. I've been working on a
    prescription (this is not a cure, this is a dosage to allievaite some
    acute problems), which I will most likely post this coming weekend.
    Do us the honor of really responding with your best stuff. I think I
    have a couple really good ideas - all things considered.
    
    	Maybe Newton's right - the Great Cosmic Success Loop is Here.
    Probably will miss it, too.
    
    		the Greyhawk
    
    	

	Looks like Tom Newton has got hold of
	the 'hawk's password on POBOX.

RE: .65, .66, .67 (discussion about whether the plan should be posted)

I say again, there was never any thought to keeping the plan a secret, there
is only the fact of people being overwhelmed with the amount of work to do
with the few people left (does this sound familiar to anyone?).  

I have received substantive review by the author, and am planning on posting
my summary of the talk ASAP.

But for those of you who want the whole thing, see the following announcement:

                     /\ 			
                    / /\ 
                   / /  \ 
                  / / TECHNICAL COMPETENCY 
                  \ \ DEVELOPMENT GROUP 
		   \ \  /
		    \ \/
		     \/
		                                              
		  TCDG Seminar Program Description
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title             Corporate Strategy Update: Understanding the 
		  Changes in the Company and the Industry
Speaker           Katherine Hornbach            
_____________________________________________________________________________

**PLEASE NOTE**   This seminar is being offered twice.
		  Register for the date and location  
		  that is most convenient for you.

Date              November 22, 1994
Time              09:00 - 11:00
Location          Harbor Conf. Room, LKG2-1     
Course Number     TSTSU-01

Date              December 14, 1994
Time              09:00 - 11:00
Location          Maynard Conf. Room, PKO3-1/8E 
Course Number     TSTSU-02

Registration      Log into COURSES software on MILRAT .
                  Username is COURSES and password is TRAINING.
Cancellation      Please withdraw if you cannot attend so                     
                  that someone else may attend in your place.                 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
INTENDED AUDIENCE:  All employees, especially anyone involved in                
                    products or interacting with customers.
                                                                                
DESCRIPTION:                                                                    
                                                                                
This talk will provide the context to understand the major                      
changes that are being made at Digital, as well as the changes                  
that are restructuring much of the computer industry.                           
We'll share with you some of the work that the Strategy Group                   
has done with Digital's senior management in re-shaping the                     
company.  Many of the recent company changes will seem much                     
more understandable with this strategic context. There will be                  
plenty of time for Q&A and informal discussions.                                
                                                           
SPEAKER:                              
                                                                                
Katherine Hornbach is in the CSD Business Strategy Group,                       
where she is responsible for Emerging Markets and New Business                  
Development.  In this role, she works with Digital's senior                     
managers to ensure that major technology and market changes                     
are anticipated and reflected in the company's strategy.  Her                   
most recent work is on the impact of the convergence of computing,              
telecommunications and media.                                                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Technical Competency Development Group 

    I wana go to the peso.  Anyone have a spare airticket Sydney - Boston -
    Sydney?  ;-}
    
    Seriously, do ya think they'll make a video of it and send it around?  
    It did say the intended audiance was 'all employees'.
    
    From my foxhole/rathole/place in the trench, I see signs of an emerging
    strategy.  I can't see enough of the trees to know what sort of forest
    they're planting.  While I may disagree with where they're putting some 
    of the trees (doesn't matta, most seem to be right), there does seem to 
    be a coherent thought process going on someplace.
    
    Bill
         

      Re. .63 & others,
    
      Any news on when (if) some details of this wonderful plan will be posted
    here, or communicated in some other way than by talks which most of us
    can't get to? Judging by 3553.1, Greyhawk needs another fix. 8*)
    
    Ken

re    <<< Note 3405.72 by ODIXIE::MOREAU "Ken Moreau;Sales Support;South FL" >>>

I attended the seminar mentioned in re .72,

_____________________________________________________________________________
Title             Corporate Strategy Update: Understanding the 
		  Changes in the Company and the Industry
Speaker           Katherine Hornbach            
_____________________________________________________________________________

It is no doubt a well prepared and presented seminar on Corporate Strategy,
however I walked away with following opinions:

1) The presentation focused a lot on what happened in the past and how we
   (Digital) got in the mess etc. but lacked in details of what strategic
   direction Digital is taking on. There is discussion on emerging markets
   and convergence of technologies (coputers, telcom etc.) but that applies 
   to the whole industry not just Digital.

2) It is not clear that Digital senior management has bought into the startegy,
   need more direct evidence on that.

Avinash
   

    I saw the presentation, and I thought that it's been fairly
    characterized.  It *does* take a lot of explaining; it also seems to
    capture exactly the pit into which Digital has fallen.  The escape
    route, I thought, was fairly well laid out, and given the changes we
    have seen, I would say senior management *is* trying to follow it.
    
    Personally, I found it enormously frustrating.  Why?  If Digital is to
    recover, the Network Products business is poised to be one of the
    engines of salvation.  Now is the time that it will happen.  I work in
    the right group at the right time in the right place -- but I report to
    the wrong people!  That is, my organization reports across into a
    different business unit, one whose goal is to elminate heads as fast as
    possible.